Mass Shootings Maine

[Blue Horseshoe 348]

3 hours ago, GobbleDog said:

Ban commercial firearm sales. Keep and bear whatever you got. Go buy as many as you want on the private market, but no new guns. Twenty, thirty years down the line... gun values skyrocket and slowly get removed from circulation through gun collectors purchases, government buy-backs, time itself takes care of some. The first to sell - the poor, the one's committing most gun violence anyway. Don't even have to amend the Constitution.

It's a beautiful plan. But it's politically unrealistic. Instead the US will take 100+ years of baby steps with do-nothing laws until they finally ban them. Gonna be a lot of carnage until then. 

 

You are suggesting a proxy for a "may issue" provision in order to purchase a firearm. (Yours is the most extreme version possible) This was struck down by SCOTUS in the Bruen ruling. Even if Democrats could generate enough numbers in Congress to try to sidestep Bruen, SCOTUS would just strike that down too. 

So, 'Yes', you would need to amend the Constitution to get what you want. 

Your plan is not "beautiful".  It makes no sense at all legally. 

[HellToupee 1,691]

Presser started with instructions to get the ASL interpreter on screen. The last one she was positioned in front left of the speaker and dominated the screen. Some stations closed in on the speaker 

 

DEI

[Strike 5,387]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Election fraud that would have been solved by voter ID laws? I strongly doubt that. 

Take the bet and find out

[HellToupee 1,691]

they cut the ASL off the screen

 

she stated with the facial expressions and then zoomed in

 

Susan Collin’s needs to retire 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,236]

Remember when Georgia started requiring ID to vote a couple of years ago? What was the result? 

[Strike 5,387]

2 hours ago, GobbleDog said:

I mention it because it's the only solution. But you're right, it's politically unrealistic and won't happen. Sorry for wasting everyone's time.

If ya have the time, I'd love to hear your solution.  Whatcha got?  Even if it's politically unrealistic. I don't care, let's hear it. How could/should the U.S. get gun violence rates consistent with other first world countries?  Or do we just have to live with carnage?

I'm not worried about getting our violence rate consistent with other first world countries.  I don't think we should measure ourselves against anyone.  It used to be that the rest of the world measured themselves against the US of A.  Not so much anymore and that's sad.  But this country was founded and built on the notion of not worrying about other countries and doing what it thought was right.  If your goal is live in a first world country with a certain gun violence rate I suggest you find a country that fits your profile and move there.  Those countries you speak of lack in other areas such as freedom.  We've given up enough of that already.  I'm not giving up any more. 

I mean, let's be realistic.  No one on this forum is worried about walking out their front door and getting shot.  Take away the inner cities and a few other places and there is almost no gun violence in this country.  You gun control people just freak out every time there is an incident.  Of course, if the yellow flag laws in Maine had been followed this guy wouldn't have been able to carry out this abhorrent action.  And we find in many of these cases that someone dropped the ball.  It happens over and over.  But you never mention that.  You just jump straight to wanting to take everyone's guns. 

 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

14 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Remember when Georgia started requiring ID to vote a couple of years ago? What was the result? 

Trump lost, told the election secretary to cheat and now he's on trial for it?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,236]

Just now, GutterBoy said:

Trump lost, told the election secretary to cheat and now he's on trial for it?

It was after that, Mush. 

[Mike Honcho 5,250]

Keep reading the news, it's just so hard to comprehend. One minute you are talking to your friends or coworkers and they say they are going out bowling tonight and then you find out they were all killed. I can't imagine that, I feel so bad for all those people today whose lives were devastated...and are going to deal with this for the rest of their lives.    

[Hawkeye21 2,390]

22 minutes ago, Strike said:

I'm not worried about getting our violence rate consistent with other first world countries.  I don't think we should measure ourselves against anyone.  It used to be that the rest of the world measured themselves against the US of A.  Not so much anymore and that's sad.  But this country was founded and built on the notion of not worrying about other countries and doing what it thought was right.  If your goal is live in a first world country with a certain gun violence rate I suggest you find a country that fits your profile and move there.  Those countries you speak of lack in other areas such as freedom.  We've given up enough of that already.  I'm not giving up any more. 

I mean, let's be realistic.  No one on this forum is worried about walking out their front door and getting shot.  Take away the inner cities and a few other places and there is almost no gun violence in this country.  You gun control people just freak out every time there is an incident.  Of course, if the yellow flag laws in Maine had been followed this guy wouldn't have been able to carry out this abhorrent action.  And we find in many of these cases that someone dropped the ball.  It happens over and over.  But you never mention that.  You just jump straight to wanting to take everyone's guns. 

 

I agree with you.  Why would we want to be like other countries and give up the rights that have made us the greatest country in the world?

[GutterBoy 2,898]

9 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

It was after that, Mush. 

Exactly, dummy.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,236]

3 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Exactly, dummy.

Exactly what? The institution of voter ID in Georgia was after the fraud that was obvious in 2020. It was a cluster Fock, that’s why the same people that said it was secure took measures to make it secure. Another fail. Get in the bathroom. I don’t want your face looking at my posts. 

[Patented Phil 1,469]

8 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I agree with you.  Why would we want to be like other countries and give up the rights that have made us the greatest country in the world?

Let’s be like Scandanavia!  Socialism!  Sauna!

[Voltaire 5,280]

21 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Yes she was an alcoholic. Now going on 8 years sober. I’m very proud of her. She never drove kids around drunk. And she was heavy and had a weight loss operation and is not heavy any longer. You think these things are funny? Worth mocking? What a scumbag you are for bringing it up. And raising it in a mass shooting thread only makes you look worse. 
The fact that you think this stuff is worth mocking means there is something seriously wrong with you. 

Glad your wife has gotten better, and agree that it's cruel/disturbing to see it brought up.

For everybody else, if Tim is a no-good horrible person for believing XYZ, fine, that's fair game, but let's show some class with family stuff.

[Hawkeye21 2,390]

3 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Glad your wife has gotten better, and agree that it's cruel/disturbing to see it brought up.

For everybody else, if Tim is a no-good horrible person for believing XYZ, fine, that's fair game, but let's show some class with family stuff.

Anyone that makes comments against someone’s family is a POS. There’s nothing wrong with a little ribbing but there’s a line. 

[nobody 2,643]

4 hours ago, GobbleDog said:

Fine, "is there ANY SCENARIO in which you'd favor TOTAL gun control?" I already know your answer - no.

Don't feel bad, every gun righter "thinks" that way.

I was for gun control until the government let people riot and destroy businesses because criminals died resisting arrest.

People need the ability to protect themselves from rioters next time the government thinks it's in their political interests to allow them to happen.

So people are just going to have to get shot.

[GutterBoy 2,898]

12 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Exactly what? The institution of voter ID in Georgia was after the fraud that was obvious in 2020. It was a cluster Fock, that’s why the same people that said it was secure took measures to make it secure. Another fail. Get in the bathroom. I don’t want your face looking at my posts. 

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-apr-23-na-voterid23-story.html

[Hawkeye21 2,390]

It doesn’t sound like they found him at the residence they surrounded. I read that his family owns a lot of land in the area and that he’s very familiar with it.  I also read that deer season opens this weekend which will really throw a wrench in things. 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

11 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Glad your wife has gotten better, and agree that it's cruel/disturbing to see it brought up.

For everybody else, if Tim is a no-good horrible person for believing XYZ, fine, that's fair game, but let's show some class with family stuff.

You expect dodger to show some class? 

[TimHauck 2,720]

Only in the GC can a thread about a shooting in Maine become about alleged election fraud in Georgia

[Hawkeye21 2,390]

1 minute ago, GutterBoy said:

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-apr-23-na-voterid23-story.html

Would you keep that crap out of here. There are plenty of other threads to discuss that in. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,236]

Just now, GutterBoy said:

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-apr-23-na-voterid23-story.html

Yeah dummy, they did it again two years ago. MLB took away the all star game because of it. Why do I bother with you? That’s right, I don’t like you and it’s fun slapping you around. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,236]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

Would you keep that crap out of here. There are plenty of other threads to discuss that in. 

I’ll post whatever I want wherever I want. It’s not up to you. 

[Hawkeye21 2,390]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I’ll post whatever I want wherever I want. It’s not up to you. 

How focking vain are you?  I wasn’t even responding to you. If I were seafoam I’d call you obsessed. 

[GobbleDog 990]

52 minutes ago, Strike said:

I'm not worried about getting our violence rate consistent with other first world countries.  I don't think we should measure ourselves against anyone.  It used to be that the rest of the world measured themselves against the US of A.  Not so much anymore and that's sad.  But this country was founded and built on the notion of not worrying about other countries and doing what it thought was right.  If your goal is live in a first world country with a certain gun violence rate I suggest you find a country that fits your profile and move there.  Those countries you speak of lack in other areas such as freedom.  We've given up enough of that already.  I'm not giving up any more. 

I mean, let's be realistic.  No one on this forum is worried about walking out their front door and getting shot.  Take away the inner cities and a few other places and there is almost no gun violence in this country.  You gun control people just freak out every time there is an incident.  Of course, if the yellow flag laws in Maine had been followed this guy wouldn't have been able to carry out this abhorrent action.  And we find in many of these cases that someone dropped the ball.  It happens over and over.  But you never mention that.  You just jump straight to wanting to take everyone's guns.

Cliff Notes:

"I have no solution, so let's ignore how the normal world lives." 

"Most gun violence happens in inner-cities anyway."

"With mass shootings, sometimes there's a fixable reason."

"Don't take guns."

[TimHauck 2,720]

3 hours ago, BuckSwope said:

He was military and worked with guns - police should have gone to his house and removed them this summer when he was in care?  

Pretty sure there are few righties here that would agree with this, even in hindsight.  From what I gather their most popular recommendation would likely be to have kept him institutionalized forever.

[5-Points 3,467]

3 hours ago, BuckSwope said:

I think most can agree on that.  What then? 

He was military and worked with guns - police should have gone to his house and removed them this summer when he was in care?  Maine doesn't have red flags, so could ge have turned around and bought more legally?  Never should have been let out and held institutionalized against his will (if that's what happened?)  Just asking questions, but most threads I think about there is a roadblock of some sort to the solution.  

The problem with that, from what I've heard, is that he was never adjudicated mentally defective. Which is what is required to disqualify someone from being able to exercise their 2A rights. 

He was ordered to go seek treatment by his commanding officer. So he checked himself into the mental health facility. 

There was never a court proceeding where a judge determined that he was a head case. So it would've been a violation of his constitutional rights to confiscate his firearms without due process. It wouldn't have even showed up on a BGC had he tried to purchase a firearm subsequently. 

[BuckSwope 654]

2 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

The problem with that, from what I've heard, is that he was never adjudicated mentally defective. Which is what is required to disqualify someone from being able to exercise their 2A rights. 

He was ordered to go seek treatment by his commanding officer. So he checked himself into the mental health facility. 

There was never a court proceeding where a judge determined that he was a head case. So it would've been a violation of his constitutional rights to confiscate his firearms without due process. It wouldn't have even showed up on a BGC had he tried to purchase a firearm subsequently. 

Good info, thanks.  This is largely my point that people are throwing out solutions that are not even legal or constitutional.   Just like there is a high bar to disqualify from having a gun as you describe, there is a high bar needed to commit somebody involuntarily.  

[KSB2424 3,148]

1 hour ago, nobody said:

I was for gun control until the government let people riot and destroy businesses because criminals died resisting arrest.

People need the ability to protect themselves from rioters next time the government thinks it's in their political interests to allow them to happen.

So people are just going to have to get shot.

100%. 

You can’t take away peoples right to defend themselves and livelihood while at the same time wanting to “defund police”.  A defensless society would need a hardline law enforcement OR vice versa.  

Some of y’all need to make your mind up. Which is it?

[squistion 2,106]

 

[The Real timschochet 6,588]

2 hours ago, Patented Phil said:

 We live in a politicized justice system today in America, and it is dominated by Lefties.  THAT is why assault rifles will never be banned.

Isn’t this a contradiction? If the justice system was truly politicized and run by lefties, wouldn’t assault rifles be banned? 

[TimHauck 2,720]

8 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

You can’t take away peoples right to defend themselves and livelihood while at the same time wanting to “defund police”.  A defensless society would need a hardline law enforcement OR vice versa.  

Yeah, good thing no one is suggesting taking away everyone’s guns. Just crazy people’s and maybe not allow further sales of a small minority of the types of guns being sold

[GutterBoy 2,898]

15 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

100%. 

You can’t take away peoples right to defend themselves and livelihood while at the same time wanting to “defund police”.  A defensless society would need a hardline law enforcement OR vice versa.  

Some of y’all need to make your mind up. Which is it?

So you'd be good with a hard-line police force if it meant giving up guns?  I thought the whole point was to protect ourselves from the armed govt?  Which is it?

[KSB2424 3,148]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

Yeah, good thing no one is suggesting taking away everyone’s guns. Just crazy people’s and maybe a small minority of the types of guns being sold

Scroll up to the top of this page.  And there are many, many voting Americans who want to ban all guns.  Majority no, but a statistically significant amount for sure. 

I’m not a Second Amendment absolutionist.  Lines have to drawn and it’s a moving target with technology.  Nobody has even touched on 3D Printing of guns and how we as a society address that in the near future. 

But if government is going to start being soft on crime, I’m not willing to move the line harder on gun control.  The two should  move in unison. 

[KSB2424 3,148]

3 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

So you'd be good with a hard-line police force if it meant giving up guns?  I thought the whole point was to protect ourselves from the armed govt?  Which is it?

I’m fine with common sense gun control, similar to what we have now.  In normal circumstances I’d be fine with a bit more.  IF people felt safe, but when they see their business potentially being burned down and law enforcement turns a blind eye.  When they see people walking in stores and brazenly stealing stuff with no consequences, they go arm themselves.  
 

Point being, softer on crime and harder on gun control don’t go together.  

[IGotWorms 4,057]

36 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

100%. 

You can’t take away peoples right to defend themselves and livelihood while at the same time wanting to “defund police”.  A defensless society would need a hardline law enforcement OR vice versa.  

Some of y’all need to make your mind up. Which is it?

Was there someone here calling to defund the police?

I must have missed it.

[nobody 2,643]

9 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

So you'd be good with a hard-line police force if it meant giving up guns?  I thought the whole point was to protect ourselves from the armed govt?  Which is it?

You can't do that even if there is a hard-line police force.  What happens 50 years when they decide to go soft again.

And it kind of is about protecting ourselves from an armed government in a way.  Governments made a conscious decision to allow riots to happen for political reasons. 

Now they have the recipe.   All they need to do is catch someone dying the wrong way on video and then they can rile up the useful idiots and let them loose. 

And I already can hear your fingers typing about how it's a conspiracy theory, but before you post it, let me ask you.  Do you think no unarmed black men have been killed resisting arrest since the 5 or so that we saw around 2020 which just so happened to be right around the presidential election?  Or did people wake up and realize cops aren't actually hunting black people because 9 unarmed guys die resisting arrest per year?  

If the government is going to do that, people need guns.

[TimHauck 2,720]

17 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Scroll up to the top of this page.  And there are many, many voting Americans who want to ban all guns.  Majority no, but a statistically significant amount for sure. 

 

He specifically said not to take away everyone’s guns.  No one here said they wanted to take away everyone’s guns.  

[nobody 2,643]

3 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Was there someone here calling to defund the police?

I must have missed it.

People don't base their opinions on public policy on what is said on this board.  At least I hope they don't.

[KSB2424 3,148]

1 minute ago, IGotWorms said:

Was there someone here calling to defund the police?

I must have missed it.

1. Everyone knows “Defund the Police” means being softer on crime, using social workers instead of officers, on and on.  

B.  Here?  I’m speaking in terms of America and our governing bodies who make laws.