Trump to eliminate taxes on tips

[Mark Davis 398]

2 minutes ago, torridjoe said:

History explains very well the serious problem with free generational wealth. The people who have already been taxed in an estate are dead. The people benefitting from the estate have not. That’s why the tax. 

I disagree totally, but to be fair I'll ask you the same question, how much is generational and what percentage is enough?

[torridjoe 48]

3 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

I disagree totally, but to be fair I'll ask you the same question, how much is generational and what percentage is enough?

I don’t understand the first question. How much is generational what?

50% is a reasonable standard, you can work in some graduation or land exemptions (like you only pay estate taxes on certain land when you sell), but if you win the lottery it’s 50% and this is pretty much the same as winning the lottery. 
 

Disclosure: I have received funds in estate but not at estate taxable levels. I believe however that the amounts I’ve received should have incurred an estate tax in some cases. 

[seafoam1 3,025]

6 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

I disagree totally, but to be fair I'll ask you the same question, how much is generational and what percentage is enough?

uh oh....poor liberal torrid joe just lost...

[torridjoe 48]

Just now, seafoam1 said:

uh oh....poor liberal torrid joe just lost...

Who’s a liberal? Not me. Lost what?

[Mark Davis 398]

3 minutes ago, torridjoe said:

I don’t understand the first question. How much is generational what?

50% is a reasonable standard, you can work in some graduation or land exemptions (like you only pay estate taxes on certain land when you sell), but if you win the lottery it’s 50% and this is pretty much the same as winning the lottery. 
 

Disclosure: I have received funds in estate but not at estate taxable levels. I believe however that the amounts I’ve received should have incurred an estate tax in some cases. 

I was coming at it from what would you consider "generational" to mean?  Because if there is an estate tax at all, we should exclude those under that I would think.  But maybe from your answer you don't believe so.  From my view, if someone pays 38% fed, 15% state, they keep 47 cents on the dollar.  Then they pass away, that 47 cents becomes 28 cents at a 40% rate.  That dollar earned has now had 72 cents taken by the government.  It seems excessive and punitive to me. 

I don't really agree with taxing someone for winning a genetic lottery.  We don't get to choose our parents, our country of birth, or if we have genes that give us a terminal disease etc.   I don't like the idea of turning to the government to try and regulate that.  To me making a great life for your child should be an incentive of our capitalist system.  Not everyone is going to agree, but ideologically when people ask why I would vote for someone because of issue A, B, or C often times I look at taxation and capitalism among the most important.  I think we need to keep incentivizing success to drive our economy and productivity so that we all can thrive.

[torridjoe 48]

3 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

I was coming at it from what would you consider "generational" to mean?  Because if there is an estate tax at all, we should exclude those under that I would think.  But maybe from your answer you don't believe so.  From my view, if someone pays 38% fed, 15% state, they keep 47 cents on the dollar.  Then they pass away, that 47 cents becomes 28 cents at a 40% rate.  That dollar earned has now had 72 cents taken by the government.  It seems excessive and punitive to me. 

I don't really agree with taxing someone for winning a genetic lottery.  We don't get to choose our parents, our country of birth, or if we have genes that give us a terminal disease etc.   I don't like the idea of turning to the government to try and regulate that.  To me making a great life for your child should be an incentive of our capitalist system.  Not everyone is going to agree, but ideologically when people ask why I would vote for someone because of issue A, B, or C often times I look at taxation and capitalism among the most important.  I think we need to keep incentivizing success to drive our economy and productivity so that we all can thrive.

First of all, Anyone paying 38% fed and/or 15% state  has zero concerns about money. Only suckers pay that. Once you pass away, you stop paying taxes. I know I will, just try to get it from me. The whole POINT of estate tax is to break the generic lottery cycle of unearned wealth. If this is supposed to be a work economy then it makes sense to tax passive income the highest and make it progressive. Otherwise capitalism becomes the failure you see today. It truly is ponderous how someone could lambaste “lazy Gen Z” or how hard work is what makes you successful…and then wants to gift huge sums on people who did nothing for it. It’s transparent. It’s about keeping rich people rich and taking as much as possible from the poor. 

[Mark Davis 398]

1 minute ago, torridjoe said:

First of all, Anyone paying 38% fed and/or 15% state  has zero concerns about money. Only suckers pay that. Once you pass away, you stop paying taxes. I know I will, just try to get it from me. The whole POINT of estate tax is to break the generic lottery cycle of unearned wealth. If this is supposed to be a work economy then it makes sense to tax passive income the highest and make it progressive. Otherwise capitalism becomes the failure you see today. It truly is ponderous how someone could lambaste “lazy Gen Z” or how hard work is what makes you successful…and then wants to gift huge sums on people who did nothing for it. It’s transparent. It’s about keeping rich people rich and taking as much as possible from the poor. 

You have a way of getting out of the 38% fed rate of earned income?  I'm a CPA, worked in that and in finance for my whole career.  I have a job for you.  In fact, I can make you millions on just a contingency basis within a year.  All joking aside, you're speaking in hyperbole whether you know it and are intentionally doing it or you have heard it and are parroting it, the tax code doesn't work that way.

I'm sorry you have a jaded view of capitalism.  There are a lot of countries who have tried other systems.  I don't think they work as well.  They have people much poorer than we do, and many more of them.

[Maximum Overkill 1,989]

17 hours ago, BeachGuy23 said:

Since you’re for this I assume you’re in favor of college loan forgiveness.

Tips aren't loans dumbarse. You actually earn tips. 

A loan is a contract stating that you agree to pay the money back. 

[Maximum Overkill 1,989]

4 hours ago, torridjoe said:

Who’s a liberal? Not me.

Yeah right! 

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

14 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Funny, when I posted this I wasn't sure how I felt about the proposal (FWIW it's grow on me).  I was mostly interested in how the Lefties, and centrists like yourself, would find a way to disparage it.   

I didn't disparage it. I literally said I don't care one way or the other. Again- I was mocking that some people are okay with this pandering but cry about others.

[BeachGuy23 642]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

I didn't disparage it. I literally said I don't care one way or the other. Again- I was mocking that some people are okay with this pandering but cry about others.

This is pandering and transferring a burden from one group onto the rest of us.  Which most cultist seem to have an issue with when the pandering is to other groups.  Other groups (college educated) who actually innovate and move our society forward unlike the tip culling crowd. 

Of course he'd never do it and just lies all the time to tell whatever crowd of moron lemmings what they want to hear.

 

[GutterBoy 2,899]

3 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I didn't disparage it. I literally said I don't care one way or the other. Again- I was mocking that some people are okay with this pandering but cry about others.

Same here, don't really care.

But yes it's obviously he was just saying this as a way to get votes and he will never do this anyway.

[jonnyutah 288]

Hahaha. The other guy is promising free stuff too now. 

[Strike 5,544]

Since when does allowing someone to keep the money they've earned equate to "taking as much as you can from the poor?"

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,106]

5 minutes ago, Strike said:

Since when does allowing someone to keep the money they've earned equate to "taking as much as you can from the poor?"

Only in the liberal mind can they make that connection. 

[IGotWorms 4,058]

8 hours ago, Mark Davis said:

You have a way of getting out of the 38% fed rate of earned income?  I'm a CPA, worked in that and in finance for my whole career.  I have a job for you.  In fact, I can make you millions on just a contingency basis within a year.  All joking aside, you're speaking in hyperbole whether you know it and are intentionally doing it or you have heard it and are parroting it, the tax code doesn't work that way.

I'm sorry you have a jaded view of capitalism.  There are a lot of countries who have tried other systems.  I don't think they work as well.  They have people much poorer than we do, and many more of them.

Dude, you’re an absolute liar if you’re claiming your effective tax rate is/was anywhere near 38%.

I had some respect for you as a straight shooter but it’s taken a bit of a hit in this thread  

[IGotWorms 4,058]

22 minutes ago, Strike said:

Since when does allowing someone to keep the money they've earned equate to "taking as much as you can from the poor?"

They’re dead in an estate tax scenario. They ain’t “keeping” anything

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Donald Trump’s effective tax rate is  4.1% at most, but I guess this Mark Davis fella pays almost 10x that

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/storythreads/2022-12-22/how-much-did-donald-trump-pay-in-taxes-what-to-know-about-2015-2020-returns

[edjr 6,590]

How is this even political? Oh, trump said it.  TDS

[edjr 6,590]

28 minutes ago, Strike said:

Since when does allowing someone to keep the money they've earned equate to "taking as much as you can from the poor?"

it is unfuckingbelievable what TDS has done to the masses. If Biden said this the queers would be parading through the streets (again)

[Hardcore troubadour 15,433]

6 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Donald Trump’s effective tax rate is  4.1% at most, but I guess this Mark Davis fella pays almost 10x that

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/storythreads/2022-12-22/how-much-did-donald-trump-pay-in-taxes-what-to-know-about-2015-2020-returns

Well Worms, he was talking about earned income. HTH. 

[Alias Detective 1,401]

8 hours ago, torridjoe said:

First of all, Anyone paying 38% fed and/or 15% state  has zero concerns about money. Only suckers pay that. Once you pass away, you stop paying taxes. I know I will, just try to get it from me. The whole POINT of estate tax is to break the generic lottery cycle of unearned wealth. If this is supposed to be a work economy then it makes sense to tax passive income the highest and make it progressive. Otherwise capitalism becomes the failure you see today. It truly is ponderous how someone could lambaste “lazy Gen Z” or how hard work is what makes you successful…and then wants to gift huge sums on people who did nothing for it. It’s transparent. It’s about keeping rich people rich and taking as much as possible from the poor. 

You motherfuckin socialist.

[Alias Detective 1,401]

8 hours ago, Mark Davis said:

You have a way of getting out of the 38% fed rate of earned income?  I'm a CPA, worked in that and in finance for my whole career.  I have a job for you.  In fact, I can make you millions on just a contingency basis within a year.  All joking aside, you're speaking in hyperbole whether you know it and are intentionally doing it or you have heard it and are parroting it, the tax code doesn't work that way.

I'm sorry you have a jaded view of capitalism.  There are a lot of countries who have tried other systems.  I don't think they work as well.  They have people much poorer than we do, and many more of them.

He is an idiot who has an answer to everything.  Just ask him. 

[Alias Detective 1,401]

18 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Dude, you’re an absolute liar if you’re claiming your effective tax rate is/was anywhere near 38%.

I had some respect for you as a straight shooter but it’s taken a bit of a hit in this thread  

I think you are drunk.  Try reading the post again.

[Alias Detective 1,401]

14 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Donald Trump’s effective tax rate is  4.1% at most, but I guess this Mark Davis fella pays almost 10x that

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/storythreads/2022-12-22/how-much-did-donald-trump-pay-in-taxes-what-to-know-about-2015-2020-returns

Have another shot!

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

I'm all for fewer taxes.  I like it.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

42 minutes ago, Alias Detective said:

I think you are drunk.  Try reading the post again.

Nope, as usual, you guys are fockin idiots, easily taken in by someone trying to sell you a line 

[IGotWorms 4,058]

9 hours ago, Mark Davis said:

I was coming at it from what would you consider "generational" to mean?  Because if there is an estate tax at all, we should exclude those under that I would think.  But maybe from your answer you don't believe so.  From my view, if someone pays 38% fed, 15% state, they keep 47 cents on the dollar.  Then they pass away, that 47 cents becomes 28 cents at a 40% rate.  That dollar earned has now had 72 cents taken by the government.  It seems excessive and punitive to me. 

I don't really agree with taxing someone for winning a genetic lottery.  We don't get to choose our parents, our country of birth, or if we have genes that give us a terminal disease etc.   I don't like the idea of turning to the government to try and regulate that.  To me making a great life for your child should be an incentive of our capitalist system.  Not everyone is going to agree, but ideologically when people ask why I would vote for someone because of issue A, B, or C often times I look at taxation and capitalism among the most important.  I think we need to keep incentivizing success to drive our economy and productivity so that we all can thrive.

Hey @Alias Detective, can you do math?  

[Alias Detective 1,401]

24 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Hey @Alias Detective, can you do math?  

Yes, can you read where Mark Davis says He pays 38% federal income tax.  Now, rollover.

[Mark Davis 398]

1 hour ago, IGotWorms said:

Dude, you’re an absolute liar if you’re claiming your effective tax rate is/was anywhere near 38%.

I had some respect for you as a straight shooter but it’s taken a bit of a hit in this thread  

Well, to be clear, I never stated my rate was 38% so I'm not sure where that came from.  But you moved the goalposts just a little by slipping the word "effective" in there.  I generally talk taxes in terms of incremental dollars earned as do most I know.  But incrementally, yes a lot of people's dollars who are going to fall under the estate tax eventually are taxed at 38%.  That's before state tax, local tax, etc.  And it's also true I'd know quite a few people, namely managing partners, who would pay big money if there was a way around that they haven't figured out.  

[Mark Davis 398]

1 hour ago, IGotWorms said:

Donald Trump’s effective tax rate is  4.1% at most, but I guess this Mark Davis fella pays almost 10x that

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/storythreads/2022-12-22/how-much-did-donald-trump-pay-in-taxes-what-to-know-about-2015-2020-returns

What does Trump's individual return have to do with incremental rates?  I haven't reviewed Trump's return but I'd strongly suspect most of his income isn't going to fall under earned income but more likely capital gains offset by depreciation.  

[jerryskids 6,799]

15 hours ago, TimHauck said:

You rang?

I don’t hate this.  It mostly just seems odd that this would be the only type of employment income that I’m aware of that’s officially not taxed.

The main unintended consequence I can think of would be employers reducing wages and saying “well now you’re going to make more in tips”

I believe that most servers make the "server minimum wage" as a base salary.  So I don't think the employers could easily do that.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,433]

Hard to believe Worms is in here running his big mouth and he doesn’t understand the difference between earned income and capital gains. 

[IGotWorms 4,058]

18 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

What does Trump's individual return have to do with incremental rates?  I haven't reviewed Trump's return but I'd strongly suspect most of his income isn't going to fall under earned income but more likely capital gains offset by depreciation.  

Whats that have to do anything? All wealthy people figure out how to get around taxes just like Trump. You think he’s the only one?

[TimHauck 2,876]

19 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I believe that most servers make the "server minimum wage" as a base salary.  So I don't think the employers could easily do that.

My comment would also apply to dishwashers, hostesses etc that also get tips.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

26 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

Well, to be clear, I never stated my rate was 38% so I'm not sure where that came from.  But you moved the goalposts just a little by slipping the word "effective" in there.  I generally talk taxes in terms of incremental dollars earned as do most I know.  But incrementally, yes a lot of people's dollars who are going to fall under the estate tax eventually are taxed at 38%.  That's before state tax, local tax, etc.  And it's also true I'd know quite a few people, namely managing partners, who would pay big money if there was a way around that they haven't figured out.  

You did the math under the assumption that a person actually pays 38% of their income in federal taxes. If you’re really a CPA, you know that is absolutely false — so much so that it proves bad faith on your part  

[Mark Davis 398]

2 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Whats that have to do anything? All wealthy people figure out how to get around taxes just like Trump. You think he’s the only one?

Again, you are mixing terms here.  Are we talking "all" or being more than the "only one"?  It's a little hard to address things individually given that you are coming at it from two polar opposite ends on the volume of taxpayers effected but I'll try.

Your blanket statement that all high earners are avoiding 38% is untrue on it's face, otherwise that tax bracket wouldn't exist.  I'd say Trump is more the outlier assuming your statement about his rate is correct, and I haven't looked at it.  But yes, there are other people than Trump who have shelters and large depreciation write-offs on their returns.  They are not going to be the majority as Trump specifically makes his income from real estate, which has quite a few specialized treatments in the code.  I haven't reviewed his return and honestly there's definitely going to be some pretty nuanced items there that would require a tax specialist in that area to analyze, so I'm not even qualified if I had it in front of me.  Has his entire return been published so we can even have that discussion?  I didn't think it had been.

 

[IGotWorms 4,058]

1 minute ago, Mark Davis said:

Again, you are mixing terms here.  Are we talking "all" or being more than the "only one"?  It's a little hard to address things individually given that you are coming at it from two polar opposite ends on the volume of taxpayers effected but I'll try.

Your blanket statement that all high earners are avoiding 38% is untrue on it's face, otherwise that tax bracket wouldn't exist.  I'd say Trump is more the outlier assuming your statement about his rate is correct, and I haven't looked at it.  But yes, there are other people than Trump who have shelters and large depreciation write-offs on their returns.  They are not going to be the majority as Trump specifically makes his income from real estate, which has quite a few specialized treatments in the code.  I haven't reviewed his return and honestly there's definitely going to be some pretty nuanced items there that would require a tax specialist in that area to analyze, so I'm not even qualified if I had it in front of me.  Has his entire return been published so we can even have that discussion?  I didn't think it had been.

 

Well Mark, you know it’s impossible to actually be fully taxed at the top bracket because all income leading up to that bracket is taxed at correspondingly lower rates. That’s 101 on income taxes. So right off the bat you’re full of sh1t.

And yeah, most people who make more than several hundred thousand dollars are getting a vast majority of their income from capital gains, real estate etc and not hourly wages, obviously. It’s not like Donald Trump invented that tax racket 

You are completely full of it, bud

[Alias Detective 1,401]

13 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

You did the math under the assumption that a person actually pays 38% of their income in federal taxes. If you’re really a CPA, you know that is absolutely false — so much so that it proves bad faith on your part  

Any earned income over $600,000 is taxed at 37%.  If you have an estate tax concern its very possible you income is/was also above that level.  In some states a state inheritance tax starts with dollar 1 and in PA is up to an additional 15%

[The Real timschochet 6,764]

Putting aside the plus or minus of Trump’s proposal: as a practical matter he would need a Republican House and Senate to go along with this and, even if Republicans win all 3 branches I still doubt it happens. There will certainly be a corporate tax cut though.