The Real timschochet 6,843 Posted Sunday at 05:16 PM The old Israel Gaza thread seems to be missing (in any case I can’t find it) so I started a new one. Apologies if I missed it. In any case: 1. I believe the current Israeli government is guilty of genocide in their systemic, deliberate starvation of the Palestinian people in Gaza. 2. I support the Israeli government doing an about face here and, as of today, allowing humanitarian aid in. This will save lives. Point #2 is a big part of the reason I continue to support Israel and see them as good guys. Good countries, including the United States, have committed bad acts. We have committed genocide ourselves in the past. The difference is when we do bad stuff we try to to fix it, we acknowledge our mistakes and wrongdoings, we try to make amends. My right wing friends think Israel can do no wrong. My left wing friends think Israel is evil. Both are wrong. Hamas is evil. Israel is a good country who sometimes does bad things. That being said, Netanyahu is a bad man who needs to be removed from office and probably charged with war crimes. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,908 Posted Sunday at 10:46 PM Netanyahu says Israel is “forced to provide ‘minimal’ humanitarian aid” https://x.com/DropSiteNews/status/1949529035052089568 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,829 Posted Monday at 12:37 AM This guy gets it. Quote Hamas Is To Blame For the Suffering in Gaza | Opinion Published Jul 16, 2025 at 10:03 AM EDT This week we exceeded 6,600 days of Hamas' rule over the Gaza Strip. Hamas seized control of Gaza on June 14, 2007, after winning the 2006 elections and violently ousting its rivals. In the ensuing 18-plus years, Hamas has entrenched itself as an authoritarian regime in Gaza that many observers label as one of the worst governments ever to rise to power through elections. Gaza's 2 million residents have endured systemic oppression, human rights abuses, economic devastation, and repeated wars as a result of Hamas' "leadership." Hamas has systematically stolen from its people in every possible way, and explicitly makes the deaths of those under its rule a central facet of its military strategy. Hamas has waged a campaign of terror against Israel and Jews worldwide, but it does so by first reigning with terror over the people of Gaza. People are struggling with how to understand what has happened to Palestinians in Gaza. The poverty, violence, death, and hopelessness in Gaza is absolutely horrendous. Someone must be to blame, because there is no reason anyone should have to live in such conditions. But who? Many Westerners, especially young people, have latched onto a flagrantly false accusation: Gaza is in dire straits because Israel is in the process of perpetrating a genocide. Clearly, most who use that term don't know what it means. Some ought to know better: The false and horrific accusation before the highly politicized International Criminal Court is a total sham. When I speak to groups, I'm sometimes asked what I think of Israel's "genocide." I reply by asking them what "genocide" means. Their typical reply to me? A blank look. A squirm. They don't know what it means, or if they do, they don't know how to apply it to Israel's war on Hamas. Why? Because it's a completely false accusation against Israel. Israel is not trying to wipe a people off the Earth, and the evidence for that fact is all around—from Israeli troops' presence on the ground in Gaza (why would that be if they were trying to wipe Palestinians out?), to Israel's conduct in Judea and Samaria (where there is no active war against the Palestinians, much less something more dramatic), to the international freak-out that ensues whenever anyone discusses allowing Palestinians to leave Gaza in the search for better lives, even if only on a temporary basis. The narrative of Israeli genocide is outrageously false. But that doesn't mean there isn't a tragedy in Gaza, that no one is to blame, or that there is no coherent story we can tell about what has befallen innocent Palestinians there. We should—indeed we must—define the tragedy of what has happened to Palestinians in Gaza. I humbly suggest we use this word: "dehumanicide." As in, Hamas and its terrorist partners in crime, including the Iranian regime, have committed dehumanicide against the Palestinians in Gaza for over 6,600 days and counting. I define "dehumanicide" as when a people's leadership condemns its population to death by treating them not as humans but as props. By camouflaging among civilians—placing weapons, tunnels, and command posts in and under hospitals, schools, mosques, and apartment buildings—Hamas has committed an act of dehumanicide. Hamas transformed civilian lives into strategic assets for international outrage. Hamas instrumentalized Gazans not as people to be protected, but as tools of their horrific, twisted, evil warfare. Hamas accepts these civilian deaths as the "cost of doing business." Indeed, Hamas welcomes the deaths because it knows the world will use them as cudgels against Israel so that Hamas can prolong its long war against the Jewish state. Hamas' crime of dehumanicide against Palestinians in Gaza differs from mere disregard for human life. It is a structural inversion of human value, where vulnerability is weaponized, and death is prized and monetized politically. How does dehumanicide differ from other "cides?" Unlike genocide, which seeks to exterminate a people from without, and unlike suicide, which targets the self, dehumanicide is a vicious betrayal from within—a leadership or organization reducing people it purports to lead to human sacrifices in service of its ideology and propaganda. Hamas and its related groups have committed dehumanicide against Gazans, aided by Islamic Jihad, Houthis, Hezbollah, and other terror groups that are part of this evil axis, along with the Iranian regime and its useful foot soldiers in the West who either sympathize with Hamas, or merely do its bidding because they fail or don't want to recognize this reality. Let's finally speak the truth about what has happened in Gaza. The real tragedy is not an imaginary genocide by Israel, but the systematic dehumanization of Palestinians by their own supposed leaders. May the day soon come when we stop the count of Hamas' rule and begin counting the days of Gaza's freedom from Hamas' oppression. And maybe after that, we can figure out whether there might be a realistic, implementable solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and what that might look like, so there is no more suffering of Palestinians or Israelis as a result of this seemingly unsolvable conflict. Jason D. Greenblatt was President Donald Trump's Middle East envoy between 2017 and 2019. He is the author of In the Path of Abraham and the founder of Abraham Venture LLC. Follow him on X: @GreenblattJD The views expressed in this article are the writer's own. https://www.newsweek.com/hamas-blame-suffering-gaza-opinion-2099680 If the West spent a fraction of the time getting rid of Hamas that they do with misguided blame on Israel, this all would have been over long ago. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,908 Posted Monday at 01:42 AM 1 hour ago, jerryskids said: If the West spent a fraction of the time getting rid of Hamas that they do with misguided blame on Israel, this all would have been over long ago. What is this even supposed to mean? “The West” overall supports Israel and of course the US in particular has been funding them to great lengths. We could have stopped Hamas if some civilians didn’t call out bad things that Israel has done? How? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,908 Posted Monday at 01:43 AM Israel Minister of National Security: “the only thing we should be sending to Gaza is shells/bombs” https://x.com/MegaGeopolitics/status/1949520809535672739 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5-Points 3,566 Posted Monday at 01:58 AM Don't start none, won't be none. Or FAFO Take your pick. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,372 Posted Monday at 02:03 AM Why hasn't the IDF finished this? They can't get rid of all of Hamas? Pathetic. Hamas has no army, no navy, no air force, just terrorism, some missiles, and propaganda and a handful of hostages, most deceased. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,829 Posted Monday at 02:32 AM 48 minutes ago, TimHauck said: What is this even supposed to mean? “The West” overall supports Israel and of course the US in particular has been funding them to great lengths. We could have stopped Hamas if some civilians didn’t call out bad things that Israel has done? How? Thoughts on the article? I appreciate your cherry picking, but that was the main point of my post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,908 Posted Monday at 03:17 AM 44 minutes ago, jerryskids said: Thoughts on the article? I appreciate your cherry picking, but that was the main point of my post. Cherry picking lol, I responded to the only original thought you provided. I know you already blame Hamas for everything bad that happens, you didn’t need an article to tell me that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,843 Posted Monday at 03:45 AM 1 hour ago, jerryskids said: Thoughts on the article? My thoughts are that he makes a lot of good points. Hamas has been awful. Hamas is evil. Hamas has dehumanized the Palestinians. He’s absolutely right. But it still doesn’t excuse the Israelis and that’s where he (and you) go astray. Let’s talk about one very specific accusation here: that the Israeli government directed the IDF to deliberately keep Palestinians away from refugee aid by creating fire zones blocking all passages to them in Gaza. Which means there is no way to get food because if you attempt to reach it you will be shot. And that they did this systematically in order to starve the Palestinian people and reduce their numbers. That is what appears to have happened, and if so it is a crime. No amount of evil by the Palestinians or Hamas can justify it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seafoam1 3,080 Posted Monday at 03:50 AM 4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: Hamas has been awful. Hamas is evil. Hamas has dehumanized the Palestinians. He’s absolutely right. Yeah. Your leaders suck. Agreed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 4,360 Posted Monday at 04:32 AM Like all liberals they never can use a word properly this is not a genocide. If they wanted to genocide it would already be done Genocide is in the same group as racist homophobic misogynist etc etc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maximum Overkill 2,015 Posted Monday at 10:15 AM 6 hours ago, The Real timschochet said: Hamas is evil. Hamas has dehumanized the Palestinians. He’s absolutely right. But it still doesn’t excuse the Israelis and that’s where he (and you) go astray. Let’s talk about one very specific accusation here: that the Israeli government directed the IDF to deliberately keep Palestinians away from refugee aid by creating fire zones Your support for the Youth of Hamas is the same as Supporting Hitler Youth. They're bred to hate and kill. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron_Artest 1,575 Posted Monday at 03:41 PM The images out of Gaza are heartbreaking. You have to be a giant POS to still support what Israel is doing here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,843 Posted Monday at 06:45 PM 8 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said: Your support for the Youth of Hamas is the same as Supporting Hitler Youth. They're bred to hate and kill. I am not in favor of starving Hitler Youth to death. That would be an evil act IMO. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,589 Posted Monday at 06:48 PM 3 hours ago, Ron_Artest said: The images out of Gaza are heartbreaking. You have to be a giant POS to still support what Israel is doing here. You spelled Hamas wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron_Artest 1,575 Posted Monday at 06:50 PM 1 minute ago, Strike said: You spelled Hamas wrong. Exhibit A Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fnord 2,293 Posted Monday at 07:01 PM 18 hours ago, jerryskids said: This guy gets it. https://www.newsweek.com/hamas-blame-suffering-gaza-opinion-2099680 If the West spent a fraction of the time getting rid of Hamas that they do with misguided blame on Israel, this all would have been over long ago. I won't go so far as to accuse Israel of genocide. What they are doing is a textbook example of ethnic cleansing, though. Which is a war crime. The real news here, though, is the new term you have brought forward in the linked article: dehumanicide. This is going on with widespread fervor right here on our own country. Starting with, but not exclusive to, our beloved POTUS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonnyutah 293 Posted Monday at 07:02 PM 8 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said: Your support for the Youth of Hamas is the same as Supporting Hitler Youth. They're bred to hate and kill. You meant to say they're inbred to hate and kill. Right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horseman 2,478 Posted Monday at 08:20 PM 1 hour ago, Fnord said: I won't go so far as to accuse Israel of genocide. What they are doing is a textbook example of ethnic cleansing, though. Which is a war crime. The real news here, though, is the new term you have brought forward in the linked article: dehumanicide. This is going on with widespread fervor right here on our own country. Starting with, but not exclusive to, our beloved POTUS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,829 Posted Monday at 08:24 PM 1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said: I am not in favor of starving Hitler Youth to death. That would be an evil act IMO. You know that UNRWA is a Hamas shill, right? And that the "aid" going through UNRWA was going straight to Hamas. Which is why Hamas is apoplectic about the GHF eliminating Hamas from the loop. Tell me if you know this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,908 Posted Monday at 08:28 PM 1 hour ago, Strike said: You spelled Hamas wrong. Who here supports Hamas? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonnyutah 293 Posted Monday at 08:53 PM Dont care for even one second what happens to any palesitinian as long as hamas has not surrendered and they have even one hostage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,372 Posted Monday at 08:57 PM I condemn the Israeli Govt. and Military and mostly Netanyahu for the civilians in Gaza killed by IDF missiles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Voltaire 5,317 Posted Monday at 09:15 PM Israel really sucks at committing genocide. Absolute failure. There were 1.48 million Palestinians in 1948 and there are 14 million now. That's just under ten times more than they started with. what was the Palestinain population in 1948 and what is it now - Search (bing.com) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,843 Posted Monday at 09:55 PM 1 hour ago, jerryskids said: You know that UNRWA is a Hamas shill, right? And that the "aid" going through UNRWA was going straight to Hamas. Which is why Hamas is apoplectic about the GHF eliminating Hamas from the loop. Tell me if you know this. No I don’t. I am extremely skeptical that UNRWA is a “Hamas shill”. Are you aware that there are mass demonstrations going on in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem right now in protest of the actions by the Israeli government? That the former Israeli prime minister, and several members of the IDF, have spoken out against this? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EternalShinyAndChrome 4,131 Posted Monday at 10:02 PM Jews who hate Jews. Really? Here on this board? That's like white women who hate white people. White guilt is the same as Jewish guilt: It's all about virtues. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 6,829 Posted Monday at 10:13 PM 13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: No I don’t. I am extremely skeptical that UNRWA is a “Hamas shill”. Are you aware that there are mass demonstrations going on in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem right now in protest of the actions by the Israeli government? That the former Israeli prime minister, and several members of the IDF, have spoken out against this? Are you aware that 2.1 million Arabs live in Israel? Or do you think everyone protesting is a soft Israel-hating Jew like yourself? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonnyutah 293 Posted Monday at 10:15 PM https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/28/world/video/gaza-aid-airdrops-israel-digvid Lol 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,908 Posted Monday at 10:48 PM 45 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said: Jews who hate Jews. Really? Here on this board? That's like white women who hate white people. White guilt is the same as Jewish guilt: It's all about virtues. Another idiot conflating criticizing Israel with “hating Jews.” Do you think it’s anti-Semitic for the people in Arkansas to make a town with no Jews allowed? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,843 Posted Monday at 11:44 PM 1 hour ago, jerryskids said: Are you aware that 2.1 million Arabs live in Israel? Or do you think everyone protesting is a soft Israel-hating Jew like yourself? Lol really? So now you think I hate Israel? You, and many others, have become irrational on this topic IMO. I’ll repeat what I wrote earlier: leftists think Israel is evil. Rightists think Israel can do no wrong. These are not rational opinions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 4,254 Posted Tuesday at 12:06 AM Israel should have seen this coming. It on them that they allowed Hamas to create this narrative. Its not like Hamas cares at all for those people, they relish watching those people die if it serves their goal of Jew genocide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,908 Posted Tuesday at 12:35 PM 16 hours ago, jerryskids said: You know that UNRWA is a Hamas shill, right? And that the "aid" going through UNRWA was going straight to Hamas. Which is why Hamas is apoplectic about the GHF eliminating Hamas from the loop. Tell me if you know this. Do you believe that the current starvation situation in Gaza is better than when UNRWA was providing the aid? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,908 Posted Tuesday at 01:57 PM 15 hours ago, The Real timschochet said: No I don’t. I am extremely skeptical that UNRWA is a “Hamas shill”. Are you aware that there are mass demonstrations going on in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem right now in protest of the actions by the Israeli government? That the former Israeli prime minister, and several members of the IDF, have spoken out against this? The protest(s?) in Israel are a good callout and something I haven’t seen covered much here. Really puts a dent in the asinine claim that “criticizing Israel is anti-Semitic.” Article from Times of Israel below. And the protest was peaceful, no arrests. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/thousands-in-tel-aviv-rally-against-gaza-war-demand-to-stop-the-starvation/ 15 hours ago, jerryskids said: Are you aware that 2.1 million Arabs live in Israel? Or do you think everyone protesting is a soft Israel-hating Jew like yourself? Check the link above. Looks like mostly Jews to me. The guy in the x post also makes a good point that I’ve heard elsewhere. If they continue killing/starving civilians, it probably will lead to more attacks against Israel and possibly even Jews outside of Israel. The way the war is being handled by Israel currently is not a good thing for the Jewish people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,589 Posted Tuesday at 02:02 PM 1 hour ago, TimHauck said: Do you believe that the current starvation situation in Gaza is better than when UNRWA was providing the aid? Correct me if I'm wrong, with a credible link of course, but AFAIK no one is preventing UNRWA from providing aid. Israel/USA are providing it in addition to UNRWA since the aid from UNRWA is corrupt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,843 Posted Tuesday at 02:29 PM 25 minutes ago, Strike said: Correct me if I'm wrong, with a credible link of course, but AFAIK no one is preventing UNRWA from providing aid. Israel/USA are providing it in addition to UNRWA since the aid from UNRWA is corrupt. No they’re not preventing it, they’re just simply shooting anyone who tries to get to it (per the lady from Doctors Without Borders). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,589 Posted Tuesday at 02:32 PM 2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said: No they’re not preventing it, they’re just simply shooting anyone who tries to get to it (per the lady from Doctors Without Borders). GTFOH. You'll believe anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimHauck 2,908 Posted Tuesday at 02:36 PM 3 minutes ago, Strike said: GTFOH. You'll believe anything. Just last week the IDF admitted to shooting at a crowd at an aid truck and killing people. They say the crowd was trying to steal from the truck. Maybe they were, but that’s still extremely dangerous for the people trying to distribute the aid. https://www.yahoo.com/news/israel-ground-forces-enter-central-125947152.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Real timschochet 6,843 Posted Tuesday at 02:37 PM 4 minutes ago, Strike said: GTFOH. You'll believe anything. She’s not the only one who has reported this. And it’s not that I will believe any bad act by Israel. It’s that YOU refuse to believe Israel has done anything wrong here. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
supermike80 1,928 Posted Tuesday at 03:01 PM Anyone here got a suggestion on what to do? That removes Hamas, protects Israel, and makes sure they never get attacked again like on Oct 7th? I see countless complaining about this. Over and focking over, but no one has a suggestion on what to do. Hamas must be eliminated...that is not even close to an option. So what can be done? Suggestions please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
