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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: Economic Genius


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#121 TimmySmith

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 10:27 AM

Without government interference the free market would continue to deliver a healthcare system thats overpriced and delivers poor outcomes with millions of uninsured. The free market has failed on healthcare for 30+ years.

Obamacare doubled and tripled prices.  :dunno:


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#122 MDC

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 10:30 AM

Obamacare doubled and tripled prices.  :dunno:


The ACA increased prices but I seriously doubt it doubled them. Obunglercare was bad legislation but Republicans who think revoking it is going to make HC costs go down are lying or retarded.
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#123 Baker Boy

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 10:36 AM

The ACA increased prices but I seriously doubt it doubled them. Obunglercare was bad legislation but Republicans who think revoking it is going to make HC costs go down are lying or retarded.


But they can stop them from doubling every four years.

#124 TimmySmith

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 10:37 AM

The ACA increased prices but I seriously doubt it doubled them. Obunglercare was bad legislation but Republicans who think revoking it is going to make HC costs go down are lying or retarded.

If you ever paid for your own insurance, you would know, it more than doubled them. Sad, but Obamacare focked up prices so bad by giving insurance companies all the leverage, that it's true, they never have to lower them.  Taking the mandate away may lower them some.


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#125 MDC

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 10:48 AM

If you ever paid for your own insurance, you would know, it more than doubled them. Sad, but Obamacare focked up prices so bad by giving insurance companies all the leverage, that it's true, they never have to lower them.  Taking the mandate away may lower them some.


The ACA was bad legislation but our HC system was failing for many years before it and without changes it will continue to fail after it. We have a system that costs a higher % of GDP than nearly anywhere else, with millions of people uninsured, and almost nobody can afford to buy their own coverage without an employer subsidizing it.

If youve got a solution to fixing it I am all ears. These problems all existed before Obungler.
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#126 TimmySmith

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 11:01 AM

The ACA was bad legislation but our HC system was failing for many years before it and without changes it will continue to fail after it. We have a system that costs a higher % of GDP than nearly anywhere else, with millions of people uninsured, and almost nobody can afford to buy their own coverage without an employer subsidizing it.

If youve got a solution to fixing it I am all ears. These problems all existed before Obungler.

The "problem" prior to the ACA was lack of coverage. Which was overblown, because 90% of Americans had coverage.  Most of who didn't were non Americans, pre-existing conditions, and 20 somethings. In other words, the system was working fine, but needed a couple of tweaks, not a major overhaul.  HC is essentially about "pools", state exchanges have tried (and failed) to establish pools.  The reason, too many people get insurance through their companies, which is not a bad thing, but it leaves too many payers out of the equation.  The ONLY way to fix the ACA, IMO, was to eliminate private payers all together and require everyone into the exchanges.  The would create the size pools needed for insurers to lower rates.  That is my solution and at least I have one.


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#127 Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 11:07 AM

Without government interference the free market would continue to deliver a healthcare system thats overpriced and delivers poor outcomes with millions of uninsured. The free market has failed on healthcare for 30+ years.

 

Incorrect. it is government interference that delivers overpriced care.  The free market starts out expensive but mediates over time, the regulated market has failed us for 30+ years


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#128 MDC

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 11:10 AM

The "problem" prior to the ACA was lack of coverage.


The problem was actually rapidly escalating premiums. At least according to this source, premiums went up at a faster rate during Bushs term in office than after the ACA:

https://www.factchec...th-under-obama/

Quick graph:

https://cdn.factchec...2/kff-chart.png

Healthcare costs were increasing at an unsustainable pace before, during, and after Obummer. The ACA was bad but it didnt create this problem.
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#129 Hardcore troubadour

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 11:15 AM

Without government interference the free market would continue to deliver a healthcare system thats overpriced and delivers poor outcomes with millions of uninsured. The free market has failed on healthcare for 30+ years.


I have excellent HI. My only fear is that the socialists in NY mess with it. Speak for yourself.

#130 Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 11:16 AM

The problem was actually rapidly escalating premiums. At least according to this source, premiums went up at a faster rate during Bushs term in office than after the ACA:

https://www.factchec...th-under-obama/

Quick graph:

https://cdn.factchec...2/kff-chart.png

Healthcare costs were increasing at an unsustainable pace before, during, and after Obummer. The ACA was bad but it didnt create this problem.

 

No it did not, it was the government regulatory practices that led to the problem and ultimately the need for ACA.


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Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.
- George Washington

 


#131 riversco

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 12:42 AM

Without government interference the free market would continue to deliver a healthcare system thats overpriced and delivers poor outcomes with millions of uninsured. The free market has failed on healthcare for 30+ years.

 

If we had a free market in health care, what would happen is rival pharmaceutical companies would make drugs that do the same for cheaper causing a price war.  Rival medical equipment manufacturers would flood the market with cheaper equipment causing a price war.  More medical schools would open up to pump out doctors, nurses, and other medical practitioners to compete for the insane dollars on the market causing a price war.  

 

The hallmark of a free market is price wars driving costs down.  We don't see price wars because health care is a HIGHLY regulated market that is VERY far from being free.

 

Currently there exists an upper limit on the cost of health care.  That is the point where its cheaper to buy a round trip ticket and fly overseas to get the same quality of medical care somewhere else, followed by the slow realization among the American people that going overseas is the best option.  There should be a time delay in this process, where medical tourism becomes significantly cheaper and nothing happens for several years, and then the flood gates open and everyone suddenly starts flying overseas all at once as people get informed and get over their fears.  THEN we might see radical change to the health care system in the US as they suddenly face bankruptcy with hospitals emptying out.



#132 Ray Lewis's Limo Driver

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:30 AM

 

If we had a free market in health care, what would happen is rival pharmaceutical companies would make drugs that do the same for cheaper causing a price war.  Rival medical equipment manufacturers would flood the market with cheaper equipment causing a price war.  More medical schools would open up to pump out doctors, nurses, and other medical practitioners to compete for the insane dollars on the market causing a price war.  

 

The hallmark of a free market is price wars driving costs down.  We don't see price wars because health care is a HIGHLY regulated market that is VERY far from being free.

 

Currently there exists an upper limit on the cost of health care.  That is the point where its cheaper to buy a round trip ticket and fly overseas to get the same quality of medical care somewhere else, followed by the slow realization among the American people that going overseas is the best option.  There should be a time delay in this process, where medical tourism becomes significantly cheaper and nothing happens for several years, and then the flood gates open and everyone suddenly starts flying overseas all at once as people get informed and get over their fears.  THEN we might see radical change to the health care system in the US as they suddenly face bankruptcy with hospitals emptying out.

 

Pretty much spot on, but would also note that innovations tend to result as well.


To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.

 

Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.
- George Washington