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Bobbyn2022

Peyton Manning is the greatest QB of all time

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You want to be "the Greatest of all time"? Then you have to be the answer to one question, I have to win one game, who`s my starting QB? Peyton Manning would not be in my top 5 nevermind my 1`st choice. You can`t really compare stats from one era to another but you can ALWAYS compare big wins, using this as a second "greatest" criteria again Manning isn`t in the top 5 maybe top 10.

As usual, people miss the point of this. Lets review - football is the ultimate team sport. Montana, Brady, or Manning for the matter NEVER won a damned thing without major contributions from their supporting casts. Period. Montana tried the KC thing and what happened? Oops, NO Super Bowl nothing. Brady lost his amazing defense and whatever *else* the Pats were up to during his run and since then he's LOST more big games than won. Even Manning didnt win a title until his defense and running game gelled properly. Are we seeing a trend here? I hope so. One more great example is John Elway - dude didnt win anything until Terrel Davis and that improved defense came along.

 

Thats all fine - but we are speaking strictly about the QB position and how its played. From that perspective you'd be a fool to have Manning anywhere worse than the top 3 QBs of ALL-TIME and it isnt even debateable. Actually, I have felt for a while that hes the best overall QB ever to play. I know that gets the Brady helmet lickers all angry but its the truth. Bradshaw fans will get mad, Montana fans will cringe..... but its too damned bad.

 

And, if I had to win one game, I'd take Peyton without any hesitation. Every time ;)

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Peyton is certainly top 3, and I actually think he's the best QB of all-time. But when discussing Greatest-of-all-Time, one must look at the entire resume.

 

Unfortunately for Manning, some things like playoff records and SB rings are on that resume, and that is what is (for the time being, at least) keeping Manning from claiming the top spot.

 

But anyone who thinks Peyton isn't clutch is just downright lazy. You probably did nothing but look up Peyton's playoff record...Failing to recognize that his defense has given up 5 4th-quarter playoff leads - most in NFL history (2nd place only had it happen to them twice). Failing to recognize that his kicker has hurt him nearly as much as Vinatieri helped Brady. Failing to recognize that his playoff QB rating is actually higher than Brady's. I really don't mean to make this into a Brady vs. Manning - just pointing out that Brady is widely regarded as "clutch", while Manning isn't.

 

I do think Peyton needs at least 1 more ring to equal or surpass Joe Montana. Until then, he's "just" the best regular-season QB the NFL has ever seen who also has a SB MVP to his name.

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Peyton is certainly top 3, and I actually think he's the best QB of all-time. But when discussing Greatest-of-all-Time, one must look at the entire resume.

 

Unfortunately for Manning, some things like playoff records and SB rings are on that resume, and that is what is (for the time being, at least) keeping Manning from claiming the top spot.

 

But anyone who thinks Peyton isn't clutch is just downright lazy. You probably did nothing but look up Peyton's playoff record...Failing to recognize that his defense has given up 5 4th-quarter playoff leads - most in NFL history (2nd place only had it happen to them twice). Failing to recognize that his kicker has hurt him nearly as much as Vinatieri helped Brady. Failing to recognize that his playoff QB rating is actually higher than Brady's. I really don't mean to make this into a Brady vs. Manning - just pointing out that Brady is widely regarded as "clutch", while Manning isn't.

 

I do think Peyton needs at least 1 more ring to equal or surpass Joe Montana. Until then, he's "just" the best regular-season QB the NFL has ever seen who also has a SB MVP to his name.

 

I don't know where you are getting this stat, but it's wrong, or you're misstating what you mean. Brady's defense has given up fourth quarter leads at least 6 times just in Superbowls; against the Rams, twice against the Panthers, twice more in the first Giants/Pats game, and again in the second G/P game.

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Montana, Elway, Marino, Manning, Brady. Is one really better than the other?

 

I'd throw Favre in there too. Guy was most definitely a gunslinger, but he was an iron man, great competitor, and got the job done in cold weather too.

 

If I had 1 game to win and indoor/outdoor/weather conditions were unkown, I may just roll with Favre.

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Some of you guys need to take off your fantasy glasses and remember that the object of football is to win championships.

 

Joe Montana career playoffs: 16-7 (14-5 with San Fran). 4-0 in Super Bowls. 45-21 TD/INT ratio.

Peyton Manning career playoffs: 9-11. 1-1 in Super Bowls. 28-19 TD/INT ratio.

 

A whopping 8 times Peyton Manning-led teams have been one-and-done in the playoffs. The defining moment of his career was a pick-6 to lose the Super Bowl to New Orleans.

 

Montana was one-and-done only 3 times, which is the same number of Super Bowl MVPs he owns (still the record). He nearly guided a mediocre KC team to the Super Bowl at the end of his career. And he threw arguably the 2 most famous passes in NFL history: "The Catch" to Dwight Clark, sending the 49ers to their first Super Bowl, and Montana-to-Taylor, still the only game-winning TD pass in the final minute of a Super Bowl, I think.

 

 

I'll never understand the Super Bowl or bust angle. The deck was severely stacked in Montana's favor when it came to surrounding talent. The Niners always had a top 5-10 defense. The Colts rarely had a top 15-20 defense.

 

I'm not trying to discount Montana (he was obviously great), but I think it's a poor argument against Peyton Manning.

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Favre was reckless. He was fun to watch but he didnt beat Defenses with his mind like Manning does. Manning comes up to the line calls out the defense tells the guys what route to run and they score with ease. Running a cover 2 okay will throw over the middle running a cover 3 okay will run a screen. Trying to blitz me okay will throw it over the top. Manning is the GOAT anyone who think other wise is crazy. Brady is my favorite QB and I grew up on Montana but I'm sorry manning is just the Best of all time without a doubt.

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I was thinking about all the 1 and dones that Peyton had, and I came up with this question: Do the Colts even sniff the playoffs without him?

 

We are now seeing what he can really do. He has a decent defense, a good o-line and some phenomenal wr's that know how to play. I think Brady, Montana, and Marino would all put up great numbers with this team. But my opinion is that he would be the 1st qb I would pick if I had 1 game to win.

 

As for the Super Bowl wins, I don't buy it. I think the best team with the best coaching wins. There is no way that Dilfer, Flacco etc are better than Marino. They were just guys who happened to be on great teams.

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Favre didn't have brains. He had a cannon and wasn't afraid to use it. Overrated imho

 

It doesn't look like he's overrated, as no one else is even talking about him being top 5. I would have loved to have seen him with a stud wideout during his tenure in GB....There were plenty of WR's over the years that left GB and never had the seasons they had with Favre.

 

I'm not saying he's the greatest of all time. I'd give that crown to Montana. But given 1 game, I might just roll the die with Favre.

 

As for Manning, I'm really interested to see how he handles the weather come playoff time...Hopefully he can keep rolling.

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Half of Montana's teammates are HoF worthy. Marino didn't play with anyone that will even sniff the HoF or heck I can't think of many pro-bowlers either on his teams. Manning and Brady have both carried poor teams.

 

First tier: Marino, Montana, Manning, Brady (I only include modern day qbs).

 

Elway is a head scratcher for me: He was basically a poor QB for the better part of a decade (50/50 int to TD ratio between 83-94) yet people rave about this guy. He won championships once he got the best RB in the game. I'd take Favre over Elway in a heart beat. I watched him and never was very impressed. I know this is blasphemy but he's more Flacco than anything to me.

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I'll never understand the Super Bowl or bust angle. The deck was severely stacked in Montana's favor when it came to surrounding talent. The Niners always had a top 5-10 defense. The Colts rarely had a top 15-20 defense.

 

I'm not trying to discount Montana (he was obviously great), but I think it's a poor argument against Peyton Manning.

 

Take out rookie year and injury....... 13 years for Peyton.

 

Colts had a top 10 scoring defense 5 times. Yds given up 5 times in top 11. 15-20 both stats - 3 times. Broncos were #4 and #2 last year. 5 years the Colts D was yes terrible.

 

Not to the level of 49ers defenses for sure but he's had much better defenses than you think. Peyton's had enough of talent around him to be a fair comparison to any QB.

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Half of Montana's teammates are HoF worthy. Marino didn't play with anyone that will even sniff the HoF or heck I can't think of many pro-bowlers either on his teams. Manning and Brady have both carried poor teams.

 

First tier: Marino, Montana, Manning, Brady (I only include modern day qbs).

 

Elway is a head scratcher for me: He was basically a poor QB for the better part of a decade (50/50 int to TD ratio between 83-94) yet people rave about this guy. He won championships once he got the best RB in the game. I'd take Favre over Elway in a heart beat. I watched him and never was very impressed. I know this is blasphemy but he's more Flacco than anything to me.

I agree on Elway, he always seemed to be a good, but not great qb. Favre's toughness is why he is the league leader in many categories. I just can't see picking him if you have 1 game to win. He may help you win, but there is just as good of a chance that he will single handedly lose it. A risk I wouldn't be willing to take.

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Half of Montana's teammates are HoF worthy. Marino didn't play with anyone that will even sniff the HoF or heck I can't think of many pro-bowlers either on his teams. Manning and Brady have both carried poor teams.

 

First tier: Marino, Montana, Manning, Brady (I only include modern day qbs).

 

Elway is a head scratcher for me: He was basically a poor QB for the better part of a decade (50/50 int to TD ratio between 83-94) yet people rave about this guy. He won championships once he got the best RB in the game. I'd take Favre over Elway in a heart beat. I watched him and never was very impressed. I know this is blasphemy but he's more Flacco than anything to me.

Elway deserves to be mentioned, but then quickly discounted.

 

Marino does not warrant mention.

 

Drew Brees has to enter the conversation at this point and Rodgers will probably warrant mention in the next couple of years.

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Elway deserves to be mentioned, but then quickly discounted.

 

Marino does not warrant mention.

 

Drew Brees has to enter the conversation at this point and Rodgers will probably warrant mention in the next couple of years.

 

Pretty much no one would agree with that. 2 losing seasons in 16-17 years on teams that lacked talent on both sides of the ball. Held records that stood for decades. Was a top 3 QB for basically 10+ years. Dan would put up video game numbers in today's game just like Brees and Manning (and he put up video game numbers back when WR's could get mugged and QB's could actually be breathed on.)

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As we discuss the greatest QBs of all time, I would like to give Troy Aikman honorable mention.

 

No, he is not the greatest. No, I do not like the Cowboys. But if we start throwing out names like Favre, then I will counter with Aikman. We all value players differently. I value rings and W's because that's why they play. They play to win the game.

 

Aikman > Favre > Bradshaw... IMO.

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Pretty much no one would agree with that. 2 losing seasons in 16-17 years on teams that lacked talent on both sides of the ball. Held records that stood for decades. Was a top 3 QB for basically 10+ years. Dan would put up video game numbers in today's game just like Brees and Manning (and he put up video game numbers back when WR's could get mugged and QB's could actually be breathed on.)

Marino was a great QB, but greatest of all time? No chance when he peaked his rookie year, had a losing record in the playoffs, and never won a Super Bowl.

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Montana.... best of all time. It's frustrating that intelligent football fans can't see this.

P Manning... not even the best in his era.

T Brady... needs one more and could supplant Montana, in my view.

E Manning... barrrfff... I'll come right out and say it, he's the luckiest QB of all time.

Aikman... best of all time at executing a game plan, wasn't very good at going to plan B, though.

Elway... appeared in those early SB's when the best team in the AFC would've barely made the playoffs in the NFC

Marino... mistake prone in big games. Stubborn also, especially during the time JJ was the HC.

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Old Joe Montana was sidelined for 2 years with elbow surgery and then traded to the Chiefs because he was clearly washed up! Instead of complaining, Old Joe accepted the trade and moved his family to KC. All he did that year was lead the pathetic Chiefs (with awful receivers) to the AFC Championship game....and they would have gone to the Super Bowl if poor Old Joe hadn't got injured in that game. Montana was 17-8 as the Chiefs starter, still the best winning percentage by a Chiefs quarterback.

Although Manning has had a very similar career.....Joe Montana is the best of all time and it's not even very close because of the 4 rings.

 

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/08/26/4436342/joe-montana-brought-something.html

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Half of Montana's teammates are HoF worthy.

This is grossly overstated.

 

Montana did not even have Jerry Rice for his first 2 championships. His best receiver then was Dwight Clark- a good, but far from great player. Compared to Montana, Manning has enjoyed a plethora of top-level receivers.

 

Quick, name the 49ers leading rushers in '81 and '84- the first two Super Bowls? Yeah, that's what I thought. Only a few times did Montana enjoy a thousand-yard rusher in the backfield. Roger Craig was a top RB for a brief time.

 

Other than Ronnie Lott and Charles Haley, which members of those 49ers defenses was "HoF worthy". Those were always, good-but-not-great defenses.

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He's the one who started really took the hurry up offense to the point it's at today. Just walking up to the line calling out what the defense is doing and then picking it apart. I bet you Welker will agree that Peyton is better then Brady and I have Brady in my top 5. I think Montana is great but he had Rice and he had an amazing defense and supporting cast. Ill take Peyton over Montana any day of the week. One thing I know is Peyton isn't really a system QB like Montanta and Brady. Peyton run his own system. He's the GOAT.

lol

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Yeah everybody acts like Peyton has played on garbage teams but that's not true for much of his career. Yeah the Colts were bad when he arrived and got pretty bad near the end of his tenure, but in between (and during his most successful years) he was playing with guys in their prime like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Edgerrin James, Dwight Freeney, Bob Sanders...and he was coached by Tony Dungy for his Superbowl win.

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Yeah everybody acts like Peyton has played on garbage teams but that's not true for much of his career. Yeah the Colts were bad when he arrived and got pretty bad near the end of his tenure, but in between (and during his most successful years) he was playing with guys in their prime like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Edgerrin James, Dwight Freeney, Bob Sanders...and he was coached by Tony Dungy for his Superbowl win.

And Dwight Clark. He wasn't a huge number guy, but he always seemed to come up with a big catch when Manning needed it most.

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I don't know where you are getting this stat, but it's wrong, or you're misstating what you mean. Brady's defense has given up fourth quarter leads at least 6 times just in Superbowls; against the Rams, twice against the Panthers, twice more in the first Giants/Pats game, and again in the second G/P game.

I believe the stat was in the final 5:00 of a game?

 

I know both SB's against the Giants would qualify for the Pats - what about the Rams/Panthers games?

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He is on pace to put up the greatest statistical fantasy football season ever...

Currently averaging 44 points a game in my league. That's a full 10 points more than Brees...and about 18 above the 6th/7th QB.

 

It's like having a tier one RB and QB all rolled into one.

 

It's just NOT FAIR.

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I believe the stat was in the final 5:00 of a game?

 

I know both SB's against the Giants would qualify for the Pats - what about the Rams/Panthers games?

They both scored with under 2 minutes left to tie the game. Maybe that's the difference. The defense gave up the lead but the Patriots weren't losing.

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This is grossly overstated.

 

Montana did not even have Jerry Rice for his first 2 championships. His best receiver then was Dwight Clark- a good, but far from great player. Compared to Montana, Manning has enjoyed a plethora of top-level receivers.

 

Quick, name the 49ers leading rushers in '81 and '84- the first two Super Bowls? Yeah, that's what I thought. Only a few times did Montana enjoy a thousand-yard rusher in the backfield. Roger Craig was a top RB for a brief time.

 

Other than Ronnie Lott and Charles Haley, which members of those 49ers defenses was "HoF worthy". Those were always, good-but-not-great defenses.

 

Well said. :thumbsup: (And the answers are Ricky Patton in 1981, and Wendell Tyler in 1984 - I know, because I make the same argument all the time.)

 

He rose to the occasion in the biggest games. His Super Bowl stats of 4-0, 12 TD, 0 Int speak for themselves, but I always think of one game that never gets enough press - the NFC Championship game at Soldier Field in the 1988 playoffs. 20°F (2°F with the wind chill), 30 mph winds, facing the vaunted Bears defence....and Montana guts them to the tune of 17-27-288-3-0. When Manning puts up a game like that, under those conditions against a defence like that, then I'll start considering him at that same level.

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I'd throw Favre in there too.

 

:lol:

 

Please step away from the computer and take a break.

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:lol:

 

Please step away from the computer and take a break.

 

What can I say...I'm a GB homer. I put Favre behind Montana, Brady, Marino, and Manning, but ahead of Elway. So, given the list I quoted, I would put him in there...

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Truth.

 

The DBs used to be able to absolutely mug receivers off the line, and they could basically make contact with receivers up until the ball was in the air. Timing patterns are a modern response to changes in the rules that essentially forbade DBs to touch receivers.

 

Montana would have been sick in this day and age.

 

That being said, I think Manning would have done well in any era, too.

 

Actually the newer rules limiting defense backs, other wise known as the Mel Blount Rule, went into effect in 1979. Montana came into the league the next year. It's ironic as the team it was figured to hurt the most was the Pittsburgh Steelers, but theirs became a wide open passing attack with Stallworth and Swann and they won their fourth Super Bowl that year.

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Well said. :thumbsup: (And the answers are Ricky Patton in 1981, and Wendell Tyler in 1984 - I know, because I make the same argument all the time.)

 

He rose to the occasion in the biggest games. His Super Bowl stats of 4-0, 12 TD, 0 Int speak for themselves, but I always think of one game that never gets enough press - the NFC Championship game at Soldier Field in the 1988 playoffs. 20°F (2°F with the wind chill), 30 mph winds, facing the vaunted Bears defence....and Montana guts them to the tune of 17-27-288-3-0. When Manning puts up a game like that, under those conditions against a defence like that, then I'll start considering him at that same level.

 

Actually I think this game was his gutsiest performance of all time. The 1989 Eagles were knocking him silly, and he got up off the Vet Stadium concrete to pull it off. I hate the 49ers, but even I got inspired watching a normally stoic Montana getting fired up after the winning score. Point of the post being, he is often thought of as a frail and pretty boy QB with those stork legs of his (especially by people who never saw him play), but dude was a freaking assassin.

 

Best QB all time? Montana, hands down.

 

http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/7/6/3141942/49ers-vs-eagles-joe-montanas-big-comeback

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Actually the newer rules limiting defense backs, other wise known as the Mel Blount Rule, went into effect in 1979. Montana came into the league the next year. It's ironic as the team it was figured to hurt the most was the Pittsburgh Steelers, but theirs became a wide open passing attack with Stallworth and Swann and they won their fourth Super Bowl that year.

 

 

if you think the Def. rules are enforced the same was as they were in 1980 you are on crack

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if you think the Def. rules are enforced the same was as they were in 1980 you are on crack

 

Who said that? And I am a serviceman and not allowed to partake of crack. What I said being after the Mel Blount rule defenses were hardly allowed to "absolutely mug receivers off the line and make contact up until the ball was in the air."

 

Pay attention son.

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Peyton is certainly top 3, and I actually think he's the best QB of all-time. But when discussing Greatest-of-all-Time, one must look at the entire resume.

 

Unfortunately for Manning, some things like playoff records and SB rings are on that resume, and that is what is (for the time being, at least) keeping Manning from claiming the top spot.

 

But anyone who thinks Peyton isn't clutch is just downright lazy. You probably did nothing but look up Peyton's playoff record...Failing to recognize that his defense has given up 5 4th-quarter playoff leads - most in NFL history (2nd place only had it happen to them twice). Failing to recognize that his kicker has hurt him nearly as much as Vinatieri helped Brady. Failing to recognize that his playoff QB rating is actually higher than Brady's. I really don't mean to make this into a Brady vs. Manning - just pointing out that Brady is widely regarded as "clutch", while Manning isn't.

 

I do think Peyton needs at least 1 more ring to equal or surpass Joe Montana. Until then, he's "just" the best regular-season QB the NFL has ever seen who also has a SB MVP to his name.

 

Ok your post got me thinking, and I did indeed go ahead and look up Manning's Playoff numbers. What I am posting however is his performance in the final playoff game of each season. My big problem with Manning is simple, I don't think he is a big game quarterback. Consequently, how can he be considered the best of all time? Answer is he can't. Let's take a look by season at his team's final game, with the following noted: year, opponent, score, comp/att, yds, TD, INT & QB rating

 

1999 TN 16-19 19 of 43 for 227 yds 0 TD 0 INT Rating 60.9

 

2000 MIA 17-23 17 of 32 for 194 yds 1 TD 0 INT Rating 82

 

2001 6-10 missed playoffs

 

2002 NYJ 0-41 14 of 31 for 137 yds 0 TD 2 INT Rating 31.2

 

2003 NE 14-24 23 of 47 for 237 yds 1 TD 4 INT Rating 35

 

2004 NE 3-20 27 of 42 for 238 yds 0 TD 1 INT Rating 69.3

 

2005 PIT 18-21 22 of 38 for 290 yds 1 TD 0 INT Rating 90.9

 

2006 CHI 29-17 25 of 38 for 247 yds 1 TD 1 INT Rating 81.7 (would've lost Super Bowl without Rex Grossman's six turnovers)

 

2007 SD 24-28 33 of 48 for 402 yds 3 TD 2 INT Rating 97.7 (Nice game but 4 & OUT on last two possessions of game, one a 1st & goal at the 9 yd line)

 

2008 SD 17-23 25 of 42 for 310 yds 1 TD 0 INT Rating 90.4 (led team to zero second half points)

 

2009 NO 17-31 31 of 45 for 333 yds 1 TD 1 INT Rating 88.8

 

2010 NYJ 16-17 18 of 26 for 225 yds 1 TD 0 INT Rating 108.7 (last game as a Colt)

 

2012 BAL 35-38 28 of 43 for 290 yds 1 TD 0 INT Rating 88.3 (3 Manning turnovers lead to 17 Baltimore points)

 

 

So to sum up... Over a span of his entire career, in the biggest games of the season where his team absolutely needed him the most, Manning posted the following average per game line:

 

21 of 39 for 260 yds 1 TD and 1 INT QB rating of 77

 

This conversation is over, and the thread should be tagged for future such conversations.

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it's not even week 5 so a GOAT label is a way early.. good, yes, great, yes, greatest of all time? I don't know any one guy will ever hold that title alone in a room of opinions... there are cases to be made for Brady or Marino or Montana or Favre or Bradshaw or anyone.. where is Flacco fan in this?? it's all so subjective... what if Denver gets bounced in the playoffs again, does that change things?

 

fun topic but I don't think there is one answer.

 

is number of rings the measure? or is setting records with little help more impressive?

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Well said. :thumbsup: (And the answers are Ricky Patton in 1981, and Wendell Tyler in 1984 - I know, because I make the same argument all the time.)

 

He rose to the occasion in the biggest games. His Super Bowl stats of 4-0, 12 TD, 0 Int speak for themselves, but I always think of one game that never gets enough press - the NFC Championship game at Soldier Field in the 1988 playoffs. 20°F (2°F with the wind chill), 30 mph winds, facing the vaunted Bears defence....and Montana guts them to the tune of 17-27-288-3-0. When Manning puts up a game like that, under those conditions against a defence like that, then I'll start considering him at that same level.

I remember it well. The "soft" California team was supposed to walk into the frozen tundra and get killed by the big bad Bears. Montana would be lucky to survive :lol:

He played a near-perfect game that day.

 

That's the exact type of scenario where we've seen Manning go into cold, nasty Foxboro, play lousy, lose, and then cry about the refs.

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I remember it well. The "soft" California team was supposed to walk into the frozen tundra and get killed by the big bad Bears. Montana would be lucky to survive :lol:

He played a near-perfect game that day.

 

That's the exact type of scenario where we've seen Manning go into cold, nasty Foxboro, play lousy, lose, and then cry about the refs.

 

Manning has never won a playoff game in temps lower than 40 degrees. In fact, when he first got to Denver his playoff record was such a sore subject that fans started touting the one positive aspect of it. That in his career Manning was 2-0 in games involving Denver, having posted wins against them in '03 (41-10) and '04 (49-24) lol...

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NFL was a different league when Montana won 4 Super Bowls.

 

Teams much easier to hold together for a longer period of time.

 

If Manning wins a SB with Denver he will have gotten there with head coaches Dungy, Caldwell, and Fox. Not exactly Bill Walsh.

 

I am not a guy who considers # of championships most important, but two SB on diff teams with those coaches would have to put him in the "greatest of all time" conversation

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