Malaysia Airlines loses contact with passenger jet

[wiffleball 4,645]

why does the FBI have to be involved? Aren't Asians supposed to be good at this shiit?

[IGotWorms 3,317]

I saw that but don't know if it's very important. It's common practice even for the tech-impaired like me to delete files from time to time.

Yes, but it all adds up:

 

- pilot has flight simulator: so he loved aviation. Big deal

 

- files deleted from flight sim: probably happens, maybe it can only store so many scenarios or what have you

 

- plane flown off course in a very deliberate way, by someone who must've known what they were doing: hmm, that's interesting

 

- hasn't been found since, suggesting a rather elaborate plot to evade detection: hey, this guy had a flight sim! That he couldn't plotted this all out on and trained on!

[IGotWorms 3,317]

It's getting ugly:

 

As my colleague Chris Buckley reported, distraught family members of passengers on the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 were forcibly dragged away from reporters on Wednesday after they unfurled a banner accusing the Malaysian government of concealing the truth and spoke of their grief.

 

Jonah Fisher, a BBC correspondent reporting from the hotel in Sepang, Malaysia, observed that Malaysian government officials are not used to having their authority challenged like this, and appeared unable to moderate their response to the protests from the relatives of Chinese passengers. This was not a message the Malaysians want the world to hear, Mr. Fisher said, and they crudely stepped in and dragged the women kicking and screaming out of the room.

 

At least three relatives managed to speak to reporters gathered for a news conference near the airport in Kuala Lumpur before being bundled away, and the scene was recorded on video from several angles. Footage posted online by The Telegraph captured the anguished screams of one of the protesters, a woman who said her son was on board the flight, as she was pushed and then carried out of the briefing room, and some of her remarks moments earlier.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

It's getting ugly:

 

I get the same vibe happening in China. China has instructed the news media to keep clear of any family, but it's not working. Could this be the start of something? Seems possible.

[cbfalcon 824]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/missing-jet-hunger-strikers-start-eating-again-after-7-hours-n55481

 

BEIJING - Dozens of family members of passengers aboard the missing Malaysia Airlines jet who went on a "hunger strike" Tuesday started eating again after about seven hours.

The group of some 60 people skipped lunch after Malaysia Airlines sent representatives deemed to be too junior to a meeting, according to Guan Wemjie, whose nephew was aboard the Boeing 777.

Guan also said family members had set up committees to coordinate their activities, and would decide later whether to declare another hunger strike.

 

 

This should get results. In fact, I've been supporting the families by going on a series of hunger strikes each day.

[IGotWorms 3,317]

Supposedly wreckage has perhaps been found well off the coast of Australia. Came from US Satellite images, Aussies PM announced it so you gotta think it's at least a legit possibility

[Voltaire 4,564]

Supposedly wreckage has perhaps been found well off the coast of Australia. Came from US Satellite images, Aussies PM announced it so you gotta think it's at least a legit possibility

Uh oh. They may have stumbled across the aircraft carrier and nuclear sub I swiped back in 2006.

[KSB2424 3,083]

Seems sort of ridiculous to claim we've discovered how the universe was formed when we can't even find a jumbo jet.

[Old School 360]

Did they just find the crash site? CNN is reporting Debris spotted off the coast of Australia. longest piece reported at 79 ft long. Norwegian ship is approaching the area now.

 

I thought sure they had landed this thing some where as part of a sinister plot.

[Old School 360]

1460 miles off the coast.

They had these satellite images 4 days ago.

At least 2 objects floating, miles apart.

Still not certain this is the wreckage of the plane.

I guess we'll know a lot more today.

[wiffleball 4,645]

The Satelites also located a 100 foot rat's ass.

[cbfalcon 824]

Bhodi would paddle to the site and get quicker confirmation.

[edjr 5,567]

How has no country asked for GFIAFP's help?

[Frank M 181]

How has no country asked for GFIAFP's help?

 

GFIAFP is search and rescue, not just search.

[GobbleDog 816]

Where's the son of a b*tch who convinced me satelites could read the writing on a dime?

 

Do they already know and ain't saying, or is the US military satelite system not the cat's eye I was led to believe. Those grainy photos were taken 4 days ago. How long does it take it move a satelite and have a look?

[IAMWood 6]

Where's the son of a b*tch who convinced me satelites could read the writing on a dime?

 

Do they already know and ain't saying, or is the US military satelite system not the cat's eye I was led to believe. Those grainy photos were taken 4 days ago. How long does it take it move a satelite and have a look?

 

My theories.

 

1. Officials from multiple countries know what happened but are keeping it on the down low knowing if the general public knew the truth, a war would be imminent.

 

2. Pilot took the plane to 43000+ ft. masks dropped, pilot turned off O2 flow to passengers, while leaving his mask and flow on. everyone on board passes out and dies. Pilot can do what he wants.. This would explain why we have heard zero from anyone.

 

I hope I am wrong about both of these things.

 

[Voltaire 4,564]

Where's the son of a b*tch who convinced me satelites could read the writing on a dime?

 

Do they already know and ain't saying, or is the US military satelite system not the cat's eye I was led to believe. Those grainy photos were taken 4 days ago. How long does it take it move a satelite and have a look?

I'm no expert, but I think you could read the dime if you know where the dime is.

 

That said, if you can read the dime, can't you get a really good clear picture of whatever it was that Australia identified?

[jerryskids 5,209]

Occam's Razor explanation; makes more sense than anything I've heard yet:

 

There has been a lot of speculation about Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. Terrorism, hijacking, meteors. I cannot believe the analysis on CNN; it’s almost disturbing. I tend to look for a simpler explanation, and I find it with the 13,000-foot runway at Pulau Langkawi.

We know the story of MH370: A loaded Boeing 777 departs at midnight from Kuala Lampur, headed to Beijing. A hot night. A heavy aircraft. About an hour out, across the gulf toward Vietnam, the plane goes dark, meaning the transponder and secondary radar tracking go off. Two days later we hear reports that Malaysian military radar (which is a primary radar, meaning the plane is tracked by reflection rather than by transponder interrogation response) has tracked the plane on a southwesterly course back across the Malay Peninsula into the Strait of Malacca.

The left turn is the key here. Zaharie Ahmad Shah¹ was a very experienced senior captain with 18,000 hours of flight time. We old pilots were drilled to know what is the closest airport of safe harbor while in cruise. Airports behind us, airports abeam us, and airports ahead of us. They’re always in our head. Always. If something happens, you don’t want to be thinking about what are you going to do–you already know what you are going to do. When I saw that left turn with a direct heading, I instinctively knew he was heading for an airport. He was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000-foot airstrip with an approach over water and no obstacles. The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer.

Take a look at this airport on Google Earth. The pilot did all the right things. He was confronted by some major event onboard that made him make an immediate turn to the closest, safest airport.

The loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire.

When I heard this I immediately brought up Google Earth and searched for airports in proximity to the track toward the southwest.

For me, the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire. And there most likely was an electrical fire. In the case of a fire, the first response is to pull the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one. If they pulled the busses, the plane would go silent. It probably was a serious event and the flight crew was occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, navigate, and lastly, communicate is the mantra in such situations.

There are two types of fires. An electrical fire might not be as fast and furious, and there may or may not be incapacitating smoke. However there is the possibility, given the timeline, that there was an overheat on one of the front landing gear tires, it blew on takeoff and started slowly burning. Yes, this happens with underinflated tires. Remember: Heavy plane, hot night, sea level, long-run takeoff. There was a well known accident in Nigeria of a DC8 that had a landing gear fire on takeoff. Once going, a tire fire would produce horrific, incapacitating smoke. Yes, pilots have access to oxygen masks, but this is a no-no with fire. Most have access to a smoke hood with a filter, but this will last only a few minutes depending on the smoke level. (I used to carry one in my flight bag, and I still carry one in my briefcase when I fly.)

What I think happened is the flight crew was overcome by smoke and the plane continued on the heading, probably on George (autopilot), until it ran out of fuel or the fire destroyed the control surfaces and it crashed. You will find it along that route–looking elsewhere is pointless.

Ongoing speculation of a hijacking and/or murder-suicide and that there was a flight engineer on board does not sway me in favor of foul play until I am presented with evidence of foul play.

We know there was a last voice transmission that, from a pilot’s point of view, was entirely normal. “Good night” is customary on a hand-off to a new air traffic control. The “good night” also strongly indicates to me that all was OK on the flight deck. Remember, there are many ways a pilot can communicate distress. A hijack code or even transponder code off by one digit would alert ATC that something was wrong. Every good pilot knows keying an SOS over the mike always is an option. Even three short clicks would raise an alert. So I conclude that at the point of voice transmission all was perceived as well on the flight deck by the pilots.

But things could have been in the process of going wrong, unknown to the pilots.

Evidently the ACARS went inoperative some time before. Disabling the ACARS is not easy, as pointed out. This leads me to believe more in an electrical problem or an electrical fire than a manual shutdown. I suggest the pilots probably were not aware ACARS was not transmitting.

As for the reports of altitude fluctuations, given that this was not transponder-generated data but primary radar at maybe 200 miles, the azimuth readings can be affected by a lot of atmospherics and I would not have high confidence in this being totally reliable. But let’s accept for a minute that the pilot may have ascended to 45,000 feet in a last-ditch effort to quell a fire by seeking the lowest level of oxygen. That is an acceptable scenario. At 45,000 feet, it would be tough to keep this aircraft stable, as the flight envelope is very narrow and loss of control in a stall is entirely possible. The aircraft is at the top of its operational ceiling. The reported rapid rates of descent could have been generated by a stall, followed by a recovery at 25,000 feet. The pilot may even have been diving to extinguish flames.

But going to 45,000 feet in a hijack scenario doesn’t make any good sense to me.

Regarding the additional flying time: On departing Kuala Lampur, Flight 370 would have had fuel for Beijing and an alternate destination, probably Shanghai, plus 45 minutes–say, 8 hours. Maybe more. He burned 20-25 percent in the first hour with takeoff and the climb to cruise. So when the turn was made toward Langkawi, he would have had six hours or more hours worth of fuel. This correlates nicely with the Inmarsat data pings being received until fuel exhaustion.

Fire in an aircraft demands one thing: Get the machine on the ground as soon as possible.

The now known continued flight until time to fuel exhaustion only confirms to me that the crew was incapacitated and the flight continued on deep into the south Indian ocean.

There is no point speculating further until more evidence surfaces, but in the meantime it serves no purpose to malign pilots who well may have been in a struggle to save this aircraft from a fire or other serious mechanical issue. Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah was a hero struggling with an impossible situation trying to get that plane to Langkawi. There is no doubt in my mind. That’s the reason for the turn and direct route. A hijacking would not have made that deliberate left turn with a direct heading for Langkawi. It probably would have weaved around a bit until the hijackers decided where they were taking it.

Surprisingly, none of the reporters, officials, or other pilots interviewed have looked at this from the pilot’s viewpoint: If something went wrong, where would he go? Thanks to Google Earth I spotted Langkawi in about 30 seconds, zoomed in and saw how long the runway was and I just instinctively knew this pilot knew this airport. He had probably flown there many times.

Fire in an aircraft demands one thing: Get the machine on the ground as soon as possible. There are two well-remembered experiences in my memory. The AirCanada DC9 which landed, I believe, in Columbus, Ohio in the 1980s. That pilot delayed descent and bypassed several airports. He didn’t instinctively know the closest airports. He got it on the ground eventually, but lost 30-odd souls. The 1998 crash of Swissair DC-10 off Nova Scotia was another example of heroic pilots. They were 15 minutes out of Halifax but the fire overcame them and they had to ditch in the ocean. They simply ran out of time. That fire incidentally started when the aircraft was about an hour out of Kennedy. Guess what? The transponders and communications were shut off as they pulled the busses.

Get on Google Earth and type in Pulau Langkawi and then look at it in relation to the radar track heading. Two plus two equals four. For me, that is the simple explanation why it turned and headed in that direction. Smart pilot. He just didn’t have the time.

Chris Goodfellow has 20 years experience as a Canadian Class-1 instrumented-rated pilot for multi-engine planes. His theory on what happened to MH370 first appeared on Google+. We’ve copyedited it with his permission.

 

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

[IGotWorms 3,317]

Langkawi doesn't make sense. The pilot would pass right over Kota Bharu, which was much closer and would be a more logical place to land in the event of an emergency.

 

The other problem is you have to explain the transponder switching off and no communications whatsoever. Possible with a fire I suppose but it seems pretty damn unlikely.

 

Also apparently the plane hit a few more waypoints heading north after it went back over Malaysia...makes very little sense.

 

That said I do not discount the possibility of some bizarre accident having been the culprit.

 

But to be honest, a big part of me thinks IAmWood's theory is the correct one. Seems crazy but there's been so much misdirection in all this that I feel like they have to be throwing the pubic off the scent of something. Or it could just be chalked up to incompetence.

[jerryskids 5,209]

Langkawi doesn't make sense. The pilot would pass right over Kota Bharu, which was much closer and would be a more logical place to land in the event of an emergency.

 

The other problem is you have to explain the transponder switching off and no communications whatsoever. Possible with a fire I suppose but it seems pretty damn unlikely.

 

Also apparently the plane hit a few more waypoints heading north after it went back over Malaysia...makes very little sense.

 

That said I do not discount the possibility of some bizarre accident having been the culprit.

 

But to be honest, a big part of me thinks IAmWood's theory is the correct one. Seems crazy but there's been so much misdirection in all this that I feel like they have to be throwing the pubic off the scent of something. Or it could just be chalked up to incompetence.

 

Regarding the transponders, I'm taking this at face value:

 

For me, the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire. And there most likely was an electrical fire. In the case of a fire, the first response is to pull the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one. If they pulled the busses, the plane would go silent. It probably was a serious event and the flight crew was occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, navigate, and lastly, communicate is the mantra in such situations.

 

 

Can't speak to the runway choice; I haven't looked into the geography enough to make that call. But in a crisis with seconds to make a call, if the pilot remembers Langkawi and not others, that is not unreasonable. It's a good thing that the pilot had 18,000 hours of experience, but what type of experience? Obscure electrical fires aren't things that pop up that often and lend themselves to extended experience.

 

Also the rise to 45K feet makes more sense as an effort to starve a fire of oxygen than some "kill the passengers" terrorist plot.

[IGotWorms 3,317]

 

Regarding the transponders, I'm taking this at face value:

 

 

Can't speak to the runway choice; I haven't looked into the geography enough to make that call. But in a crisis with seconds to make a call, if the pilot remembers Langkawi and not others, that is not unreasonable. It's a good thing that the pilot had 18,000 hours of experience, but what type of experience? Obscure electrical fires aren't things that pop up that often and lend themselves to extended experience.

 

Also the rise to 45K feet makes more sense as an effort to starve a fire of oxygen than some "kill the passengers" terrorist plot.

 

Then what happened to the plane? Why didn't it crash somewhere near Langkawi? How come it apparently flew on for another seven hours or so? Fire was bad enough to badly disable the plane and eventually totally incapacitate the crew, yet it could stay in the air for another seven hours? And how did it end up on one of those arcs that the satellite ping identified? You'd think if it just kept on flying it would've been west and not north or south.

 

Again, I suppose it is theoretically possible but there is a lot of stuff that simply doesn't fit. Doesn't mean it's wrong but I think the author of that piece poses his theory as so much more logical and straightforward than it actually is, given the facts.

[jerryskids 5,209]

 

Then what happened to the plane? Why didn't it crash somewhere near Langkawi? How come it apparently flew on for another seven hours or so? Fire was bad enough to badly disable the plane and eventually totally incapacitate the crew, yet it could stay in the air for another seven hours? And how did it end up on one of those arcs that the satellite ping identified? You'd think if it just kept on flying it would've been west and not north or south.

 

Again, I suppose it is theoretically possible but there is a lot of stuff that simply doesn't fit. Doesn't mean it's wrong but I think the author of that piece poses his theory as so much more logical and straightforward than it actually is, given the facts.

Most of your questions are answered in the post. I don't know how accurate the satellite ping was.

[IGotWorms 3,317]

Most of your questions are answered in the post. I don't know how accurate the satellite ping was.

 

But that's just it, they weren't really answered.

 

This dude presents a viable theory and he may well end up being right. But to present it as the magic answer that everyone else has overlooked...no I don't think so. In fact most people's very first thought was that something exactly like this had occurred, problem was they can't find the focking plane.

[ROCKFORD 134]

this may be a conspiricy.

[Willis McGahee's Dentist 61]

CNN started the hour with dramatic music and a graphic saying "Breaking News". The anchor says in an excited voice, "This just in to CNN....no debris has yet been found off the shore of Australia".

 

Breaking news? Nothing found? That's a bit of a stretch, CNN.

[drobeski 3,061]

CNN

[wiffleball 4,645]

most valuable thing I've heard so far is that they were carrying a bunch of lithium batteries in the hold. another plane already had an issue with those batteries start a fire. that would explain a lot.

[Vikings4ever 496]

http://news.yahoo.com/cnn-black-hole-malaysia-flight-370-theories-144151381.html?bcmt=comments-postbox

Near the end of CNN's special primetime report on Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 on Wednesday, anchor Don Lemon read a pair of tweets he received from viewers suggesting the plane's disappearance could be the result of a "black hole," Bermuda Triangle or an occurence akin to the television series "Lost."

Lemon then turned to Mary Schiavo, former inspector general of the U.S. Department of Transportation, and said, "I know it's preposterous, but is it preposterous, do you think, Mary?"

"It is," Schiavo replied. "A small black hole would suck in our entire universe. So we know it's not that. The Bermuda Triangle is often weather, and 'Lost' is a TV show."

Good lord, Terri had a better working brain than Mary does.

[tikigods 76]

Plane went through a time warp.

[Gepetto 988]

Watch Donnie Darko. Probably what happened. :/

[IGotWorms 3,317]

Watch Donnie Darko. Probably what happened. :/

[devin952 1]

Plane went through a time warp.

I knew it! focker stole my flux-capacitor ! no im pissed and going to drink thinks under the sink!

[devin952 1]

om a side note, i am almost at 540 posts!

[Voltaire 4,564]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26716572

 

Looks like they are concluding it's somewhere in the southern Indian Ocean. The chances some guys named Muhammad and Abdul will fill it with radioactive waste and crash it into LA seem pretty low.

[Phurfur 70]

One Reason It May Be Harder to Find Flight 370: We Messed Up the Currents

 

Scientists say man-made climate change has fundamentally altered the currents of the vast, deep oceans where investigators are currently scouring for the missing Malaysian Airlines flight, setting a complex stage for the ongoing search for MH370. If the Boeing 777 did plunge into the ocean somewhere in the vicinity of where the Indian Ocean meets the Southern Ocean, the location where its debris finally ends up, if found at all, may be vastly different from where investigators could have anticipated 30 years ago.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/03/climate-change-malaysia-airlines-370-search

[IGotWorms 3,317]

Indian Ocean is SUUUPER deep in many parts.

 

If this was some bizzaro pilot suicide then he probably picked some place where the ocean is at it's deepest.

 

Even if that isn't the case, by random chance it probably crashed and sank somewhere extremely deep.

 

They'll be very lucky to even find the ping from the black box. As far as actually recovering the aircraft--yikes, you gotta figure that will take years and years if it ever happens.

[jerryskids 5,209]

One Reason It May Be Harder to Find Flight 370: We Messed Up the Currents

 

Scientists say man-made climate change has fundamentally altered the currents of the vast, deep oceans where investigators are currently scouring for the missing Malaysian Airlines flight, setting a complex stage for the ongoing search for MH370. If the Boeing 777 did plunge into the ocean somewhere in the vicinity of where the Indian Ocean meets the Southern Ocean, the location where its debris finally ends up, if found at all, may be vastly different from where investigators could have anticipated 30 years ago.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/03/climate-change-malaysia-airlines-370-search

 

Also I had never heard of the Southern Ocean.

[NorthernVike 2,080]

 

Also I had never heard of the Southern Ocean.

[edjr 5,567]

Wow! What a shocking revelation!

 

What next? The water they crashed into was wet?

[BiPolarBear 476]

 

Also I had never heard of the Southern Ocean.

Yeah, but you've heard of the North Sea. My guess is that it is South of there.