Major Attack on Vegas Strip, 58 dead, 500 wounded

[penultimatestraw 473]

  

 

The below is addressed to the gun hating posters:

I doubt that anyone here owns a true AR-15, nor, do you know anyone else that owns one ...Just like the whole AK-47 thing.

If anyone here (besides BLS) actually owns a real Kalashnikov, well....just keep it to yourself.

M y good friend owns an AR 15...the same guy who tried to hang himself.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Owning a car increases your risk of death, period.

 

 

So? I don't make my decisions based upon silly tiny odds. Shame that you do.

Like the odds of an oppressive government enslaving the populace? Or the odds of defending against it if they do?

 

Im not sure owning a car increases ones risk for death either, but if it does, at least there is everyday use for it beyond killing things.

[penultimatestraw 473]

  

 

always with your suicide and guns thing, suicide rates do not go up or down based upon gun ownership

Weve had this talk before...they do, as do gun homicides. Use the search function.

[IMMensaMind 462]

Like the odds of an oppressive government enslaving the populace? Or the odds of defending against it if they do?

You mean...your statement as a reason to give up an individual right? As in...the odds of a government becoming oppressive?

 

That's the comparison you're trying to make? The vanishingly small odds of the risks to self and family as a result of my lifetime ownership of firearms versus the odds of the government removing my freedoms?

 

The latter is already happening to me and you. The former...hasn't.

 

Im not sure owning a car increases ones risk for death either, but if it does, at least there is everyday use for it beyond killing things.

You're not sure if owning a car increases one's risk of dying? That's the intellectual acumen you want to broadcast?

 

We can just leave your statement afloat there.

[IMMensaMind 462]

Weve had this talk before...they do, as do gun homicides. Use the search function.

No, that's a bullsht abuse of statistics - and here is proof:

 

http://thefederalist.com/2015/09/03/the-australian-gun-ban-conceit/

[IMMensaMind 462]

M y good friend owns an AR 15...the same guy who tried to hang himself.

Wait. He has an AR15 and didn't use it to commit suicide?

 

What's WRONG with that guy? Guns are supposed to make suicide rates higher.

 

[Djgb13 2,339]

You mean...your statement as a reason to give up an individual right? As in...the odds of a government becoming oppressive?

 

That's the comparison you're trying to make? The vanishingly small odds of the risks to self and family as a result of my lifetime ownership of firearms versus the odds of the government removing my freedoms?

 

The latter is already happening to me and you. The former...hasn't.

 

 

You're not sure if owning a car increases one's risk of dying? That's the intellectual acumen you want to broadcast?

 

We can just leave your statement afloat there.

The car statement is blatant stupidity. He KNOWS it. He just doesn't want to ADMIT it. Despite the statistics that someone died from a car wreck, what, once every 26 seconds? Average of 3,276/day. You do the math (just did which is roughly ever you 26 seconds). So...he's either stupid or doesn't want to admit it. I'm going with doesn't want to admit it. Dumbest argument someone can make in reference to it. Besides, weren't these people just getting upset over a guy using a car as a weapon in Charlottesville to run over people in a crowd?

[IMMensaMind 462]

The car statement is blatant stupidity. He KNOWS it. He just doesn't want to ADMIT it. Despite the statistics that someone died from a car wreck, what, once every 26 seconds? Average of 3,276/day. You do the math (just did which is roughly ever you 26 seconds). So...he's either stupid or doesn't want to admit it. I'm going with doesn't want to admit it. Dumbest argument someone can make in reference to it. Besides, weren't these people just getting upset over a guy using a car as a weapon in Charlottesville to run over people in a crowd?

Or this.

 

Was this even aired in US media?

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4586556/edmonton-terror-attack-canada-car-cop-injured-video/

[Djgb13 2,339]

Or this.

 

Was this even aired in US media?

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4586556/edmonton-terror-attack-canada-car-cop-injured-video/

I'm still trying to figure out why the black guy shooting up a white church (as a possible retaliation from the Charleston church shooter incident) wasn't talked about much and was pretty much swept under the rug.

[IMMensaMind 462]

I'm still trying to figure out why the black guy shooting up a white church (as a possible retaliation from the Charleston church shooter incident) wasn't talked about much and was pretty much swept under the rug.

Here's why (I know: your comment was rhetorical).

 

The media understands that the narrative they've been promulgating is all about creating victim's groups. One of the most important victim's groups is blacks. It does not serve that narrative to broadcast a 'victim' victimizing others, particularly since the rage that builds up in said victim's groups is quelled when or if they're regularly exposed to their own sins.

 

To further the narrative, you focus on injustices - real or not, and if not, be fast and loose with facts while shaping the rhetoric ("Hands up, don't shoot!") - and not the sins.

[5-Points 3,564]

M y good friend owns an AR 15...the same guy who tried to hang himself.

Somebody should tell him how guns work.

[edjr 6,603]

The only positive thing to come from gun ownership is suicide success rates

[supermike80 1,923]

 

Somebody should tell him how guns work.

 

 

Post of the day!!!

[Gladiators 1,993]

The only positive thing to come from gun ownership is suicide success rates

Suicide success rate is probably true, but there are less messy alternatives.

[penultimatestraw 473]

You mean...your statement as a reason to give up an individual right? As in...the odds of a government becoming oppressive?

 

That's the comparison you're trying to make? The vanishingly small odds of the risks to self and family as a result of my lifetime ownership of firearms versus the odds of the government removing my freedoms?

 

The latter is already happening to me and you. The former...hasn't.

 

 

You're not sure if owning a car increases one's risk of dying? That's the intellectual acumen you want to broadcast?

 

We can just leave your statement afloat there.

Yes, I'm making that statement. To be clear, the risk of the government trying to overtake the populace by force, and them being able to prevent it isn't happening, and ain't gonna happen.

 

And no, I'm not certain owning a car increases ones risk for death...there are a lot of variables in that equation you may want to consider before assuming it does. Unless you have data, like I've provided for guns on multiple occasions.

 

Also, spare me the pseudointellectual condescension.

[Djgb13 2,339]

Yes, I'm making that statement. To be clear, the risk of the government trying to overtake the populace by force, and them being able to prevent it isn't happening, and ain't gonna happen.

 

And no, I'm not certain owning a car increases ones risk for death...there are a lot of variables in that equation you may want to consider before assuming it does. Unless you have data, like I've provided for guns on multiple occasions.

 

Also, spare me the pseudointellectual condescension.

By force? No. Gradually? Yes. Our forefathers knew this and made sure to include gun ownership in that to help prevent it. Government won't one day just come out, start rounding people up in the streets, and execute them or take them to prison. But gradually tearing away all the freedoms? Oh yea that's something that easily could happen until they are actually rounding people up in the streets and executing them or taking them to jail

[IMMensaMind 462]

Yes, I'm making that statement. To be clear, the risk of the government trying to overtake the populace by force, and them being able to prevent it isn't happening, and ain't gonna happen.

Pretty strong words of declaration, considering the number of governments who have done just that after disarming the populace. Stalin and Hitler jog any memories of historical context?

 

And no, I'm not certain owning a car increases ones risk for death.

Only if you own the car and don't drive it. Repeating your uncertainty isn't doing you any favors, as Djgb had immediately pointed out.

 

..there are a lot of variables in that equation you may want to consider before assuming it does. Unless you have data, like I've provided for guns on multiple occasions.

Ah. You wish to see data that drivers of cars involved in fatal accidents were actually the owners of the car.

 

 

really.

 

Also, spare me the pseudointellectual condescension.

Oh, you're right. No need to apply full intellectual power to this. Pseudo will do nicely.

[KSB2424 3,148]

 

The car statement is blatant stupidity. He KNOWS it. He just doesn't want to ADMIT it. Despite the statistics that someone died from a car wreck, what, once every 26 seconds? Average of 3,276/day. You do the math (just did which is roughly ever you 26 seconds). So...he's either stupid or doesn't want to admit it. I'm going with doesn't want to admit it. Dumbest argument someone can make in reference to it. Besides, weren't these people just getting upset over a guy using a car as a weapon in Charlottesville to run over people in a crowd?

 

 

Cars are needed in modern society. To move around, to go to work, to haul cargo, etc. Society deems it a necessary "risk". And with cars there is regulation. One must get a special license to drive. An even more special license to drive a bus or a tractor trailer. Cars must be equipped with all kinds of safety measures (lights, turn signals, seat belts) AND we draw a line with our laws, speeding laws. 35mph in the city. 70mph on the highway. Those are arbitrary speeds we as a society mark a line that balances the individual trying to get where he is going as fast as he wants versus the safety of others.

 

It's not a dumb analogy.

 

We currently have gun control laws already. Unless you think any citizen should have the right to bear ANY "arm" then the 2nd Amendment isn't without limits. BTW other Amendments have limits too. The question for me is, where do we as a society draw that arbitrary line (much like a speed limit) that balances individual rights vs. the safety of the collective.

[IMMensaMind 462]

  

 

Cars are needed in modern society. To move around, to go to work, to haul cargo, etc. Society deems it a necessary "risk". And with cars there is regulation. One must get a special license to drive. An even more special license to drive a bus or a tractor trailer. Cars must be equipped with all kinds of safety measures (lights, turn signals, seat belts) AND we draw a line with our laws, speeding laws. 35mph in the city. 70mph on the highway. Those are arbitrary speeds we as a society mark a line that balances the individual trying to get where he is going as fast as he wants versus the safety of others.

 

It's not a dumb analogy.

That's not the part that was dumb. The dumb part was claiming that ownership of one doesn't increase the risk of death.

 

We currently have gun control laws already. Unless you think any citizen should have the right to bear ANY "arm" then the 2nd Amendment isn't without limits. BTW other Amendments have limits too. The question for me is, where do we as a society draw that arbitrary line (much like a speed limit) that balances individual rights vs. the safety of the collective.

We have plenty of limits. This is being discussed between parties who want to eliminate the right entirely - claiming that it was previously only written to provide a militia - and those who are still looking to protect the right.

 

Qualifications on this right are not the issue, aside from any discernment by suspicious parties regarding the encroaching nature of the increasing restrictions, without actually enforcing the existing restrictions.

 

There is a reason why leftists are absolutely engrossed with passing more restrictions while totally ignoring enforcement of the ones already one the books.

 

Illegal gun possession may be one of the most thrown out charges in the courts.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,356]

 

Weve had this talk before...they do, as do gun homicides. Use the search function.

 

 

yes we have had this discussion ad naseum, and nothing you have every shown, says that they increase suicides or homicides, just that the guns are used more frequently to do the job, they don't create more deaths

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

That's not the part that was dumb. The dumb part was claiming that ownership of one doesn't increase the risk of death.

 

 

We have plenty of limits. This is being discussed between parties who want to eliminate the right entirely - claiming that it was previously only written to provide a militia - and those who are still looking to protect the right.

 

Qualifications on this right are not the issue, aside from any discernment by suspicious parties regarding the encroaching nature of the increasing restrictions, without actually enforcing the existing restrictions.

 

There is a reason why leftists are absolutely engrossed with passing more restrictions while totally ignoring enforcement of the ones already one the books.

 

Illegal gun possession may be one of the most thrown out charges in the courts.

I love how gun nuts pretend they are open to reasonable restrictions.

 

But then... silencers? High capacity magazines? Armor piercing rounds? Long range semi automatic rifles? No, we need all that.

[KSB2424 3,148]

 

That's not the part that was dumb. The dumb part was claiming that ownership of one doesn't increase the risk of death.

 

 

We have plenty of limits. This is being discussed between parties who want to eliminate the right entirely - claiming that it was previously only written to provide a militia - and those who are still looking to protect the right.

 

Qualifications on this right are not the issue, aside from any discernment by suspicious parties regarding the encroaching nature of the increasing restrictions, without actually enforcing the existing restrictions.

 

There is a reason why leftists are absolutely engrossed with passing more restrictions while totally ignoring enforcement of the ones already one the books.

 

Illegal gun possession may be one of the most thrown out charges in the courts.

 

 

I agree with you.

 

My only point of contention is when gun owners or staunch 2nd Amendment persons refuse to acknowledge that gun control is needed at all. Take away my Semi-Auto <whatever> out of my cold dead hands!@#!. That shiit irritates me. It's my RIGHT! ARGHHHH!

[Djgb13 2,339]

  

 

I agree with you.

 

My only point of contention is when gun owners or staunch 2nd Amendment persons refuse to acknowledge that gun control is needed at all. Take away my Semi-Auto <whatever> out of my cold dead hands!@#!. That shiit irritates me. It's my RIGHT! ARGHHHH!

Don't we already have laws in place for these things? How about enforcing those first before trying anything else? Seems reasonable right?

[parrot 789]

Don't we already have laws in place for these things? How about enforcing those first before trying anything else? Seems reasonable right?

What laws do we have in place regarding semi-autos?

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,356]

again cause nobody can answer it, guns aren't going to be banned in this country, EVER. So....

 

which gun law would have prevented this, Sandy Hook, Orlando, San Bernardino, etc, etc

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,356]

 

What laws do we have in place regarding semi-autos?

 

 

almost all guns are semi-automatic

[IMMensaMind 462]

I love how gun nuts pretend they are open to reasonable restrictions.

I love how you characterize people who defend the Constitution's 2nd Amendment as 'gun nuts'. I also laugh about your claim about that it is self-defense advocates are 'open to'. These restrictions ALREADY EXIST.

 

But then... silencers? High capacity magazines? Armor piercing rounds? Long range semi automatic rifles? No, we need all that.

If you allowed in this society only what you needed, you wouldn't be able to post here.

[IMMensaMind 462]

  

 

almost all guns are semi-automatic

Uh oh. Don't say that. Parrot is going to have a conniption.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

again cause nobody can answer it, guns aren't going to be banned in this country, EVER. So....which gun law would have prevented this, Sandy Hook, Orlando, San Bernardino, etc, etc

None. You guys have guaranteed that we will have a never ending series of massacres, so that you can have fun toys and pretend that some day you may have to play red dawn against the us military.

 

Movie theatre. Shopping mall. Concert. Night club. Elementary school. Church. None of them safe. But hey, at least we have a bunch of clowns protecting us from tyranny.

 

Guess thats the price of Freedom. But only in America. Not in any other civilized country.

[IMMensaMind 462]

  

 

I agree with you.

 

My only point of contention is when gun owners or staunch 2nd Amendment persons refuse to acknowledge that gun control is needed at all. Take away my Semi-Auto <whatever> out of my cold dead hands!@#!. That shiit irritates me. It's my RIGHT! ARGHHHH!

Semi-autos are necessary. Without them, the criminal will have them - as anyone with a brain can easily figure out - and the law-abiding will not.

[IMMensaMind 462]

None. You guys have guaranteed that we will have a never ending series of massacres, so that you can have fun toys and pretend that some day you may have to play red dawn against the us military.

 

Movie theatre. Shopping mall. Concert. Elementary school. Church. None of them safe. But hey, at least we have a bunch of clowns protecting us from tyranny.

Except that you cannot distinguish these 'massacres' from those which take place all over the world regardless.

 

The murder rate in this country is 94th on the list.

 

Wanna guess how many countries 93 on that list and below have total gun bans?

[Djgb13 2,339]

  

 

almost all guns are semi-automatic

Exactly. People who don't know what they are talking about have no clue about this fact

[parrot 789]

Uh oh. Don't say that. Parrot is going to have a conniption.

Still butthurt over that one too huh? If you're going to start hanging around here again you really have to learn to take your beatins' and move on. HTH.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Semi-autos are necessary. Without them, the criminal will have them - as anyone with a brain can easily figure out - and the law-abiding will not.

Oh? Then we should immediately make flamethrowers,

Rocket launchers, and full autos legal. Otherwise the criminals will have them and we wont!

 

If only a patriot at that concert, or sandy hook elementary, had has an RPG! How many lives could be saved?!

 

Or could do like every other civilized, and most not so civilized counties do, and make any gun as hard to get as an RPG.

 

Indisputable fact. They are safer without guns than we are with them.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,356]

 

None. You guys have guaranteed that we will have a never ending series of massacres, so that you can have fun toys and pretend that some day you may have to play red dawn against the us military.

 

Movie theatre. Shopping mall. Concert. Night club. Elementary school. Church. None of them safe. But hey, at least we have a bunch of clowns protecting us from tyranny.

 

Guess thats the price of Freedom. But only in America. Not in any other civilized country.

 

 

so you think a complete gun ban is the only answer, I completely disagree with that, however its the only logical opinion that I can see opponents having. These have more gun control laws are just a way to get to that point. After every law is passed and something happens, we need more laws, rinse and repeat

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Except that you cannot distinguish these 'massacres' from those which take place all over the world regardless.

 

The murder rate in this country is 94th on the list.

 

Wanna guess how many countries 93 on that list and below have total gun bans?

Youre full of it.

 

If you look up the 20 deadliest massacres in the world, most of them are right here on US soil. Most with perfectly legal guns.

 

Yeah, there was that one in Sweden.

 

Then there was that one in Australia. Then they banned guns. Havent had one since. Funny how that worked out.

[parrot 789]

Exactly. People who don't know what they are talking about have no clue about this fact

Maybe because it's not remotely a fact (especially if the frame of reference is guns in private hands that would be potentially be impacted by gun control laws). The Remington 700 recall alone involves millions of rifles.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

  

 

so you think a complete gun ban is the only answer, I completely disagree with that, however its the only logical opinion that I can see opponents having. These have more gun control laws are just a way to get to that point. After every law is passed and something happens, we need more laws, rinse and repeat

Ill agree with you there.

 

Its a guns vs. no guns argument. Anything else is disingenuous bullsh!t by people who know damn well you cant have a country full of guns and determine who can have them and who cant.

 

I am in Indonesia right now. The guide we hired said not only are guns extremely illegal and impossible to find, but that you have to have a permit for a machete. I think thats a bit much, as a machete has a useful purpose. But even third world Islamic sh!tholes have figured this out.

[IMMensaMind 462]

Youre full of it.

 

If you look up the 20 deadliest massacres in the world, most of them are right here on US soil. Most with perfectly legal guns.

 

Yeah, there was that one in Sweden.

 

Then there was that one in Australia. Then they banned guns. Havent had one since. Funny how that worked out.

I just posted the metrics from Australia. During their gun ban, their murder rate didn't drop any more than ours did, while we added millions of guns to citizen's private possession.

 

Do you simply throw out pejoratives because you're simply positive you're correct, without considering at all if you're not?

 

Murder rates. Gun banning didn't change a thing in Australia.

[Strike 5,565]

 

&nbsp;&nbsp;

 

I agree with you.

 

My only point of contention is when gun owners or staunch 2nd Amendment persons refuse to acknowledge that gun control is needed at all. Take away my Semi-Auto <whatever> out of my cold dead hands!@#!. That shiit irritates me. It's my RIGHT! ARGHHHH!

By a large margin the majority of gun deaths are committed by handguns. If you really want to address the problem you should be going after those, but good luck with that.