What the hell happened to Doug Martin?

[BuschWack 56]

He shows up as healthy...

 

Coach hate him?

[American Chewy 98]

Good question

[Antiramie 50]

Koetter needs to get fired...yesterday. That whole team is a trainwreck.

[murf74 461]

Team is useless.

[Kent 228]

You've got a bad coach and a QB that's got the entire organization believing he's some kind of leader. Hard Knox would be hilarious to watch now. Winston is full of crap.

[weepaws 2,461]

He's simply what we thought he was.

 

No better then a rb3, and today not even worth a roster spot.

 

He's not going to post rb2 numbers.

[murf74 461]

He's simply what we thought he was.

 

No better then a rb3, and today not even worth a roster spot.

 

He's not going to post rb2 numbers.

Disagree

 

The team is in a shambles. He is a RB2 under normal circumstances which includes a QB and coach. He is a good buy in dynasty right now.

[weepaws 2,461]

 

 

That indeed might be the case, but right now this season is the season where talking about.

 

So unless you can show me that he's worthy of more then a rb3 ranking right now this season then I would need for you to apology to me.

 

He's had two good seasons out of the six he's been in the NFL and this this his sixth season.

 

So I sir disagree with your disagreement of my statement.

 

Unless you can show me where he his truly better right now then a rb3.

[murf74 461]

That indeed might be the case, but right now this season is the season where talking about.

 

So unless you can show me that he's worthy of more then a rb3 ranking right now this season then I would need for you to apology to me.

 

He's had two good seasons out of the six he's been in the NFL and this this his sixth season.

 

So I sir disagree with your disagreement of my statement.

 

Unless you can show me where he his truly better right now then a rb3.

Apologize? Lol for having an opinion ? Wow calm down guy

[Gepetto 988]

Mike Evans had 13 yards.

Cameron Brate had 9 yards.

Entire offense was inept.

[murf74 461]

Mike Evans had 13 yards.

Cameron Brate had 9 yards.

Entire offense was inept.

I demand an apology!

[phillygrrl08 139]

I demand an apology!

 

I'm sorry but the Bucs really suck

[KingPrawn 4]

I demand an apology!

 

The whole TB offense should apologize to us

[murf74 461]

 

I'm sorry but the Bucs really suck

Thank you

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Historically bad team. Bring back the creamsicle unis.

[scottsind 61]

I demand an apology!

Starting Winston, Evans, and Martin shows why Tampa Bay needs to apologize to my fantasy team. Going on 2-8.

[Challenger 72]

Irreverent Cohen might out score Dougie after all. But I still fully expect Dougie to do better ROS. They just have too much talents on that team to be this bad. I can't think of anything except with bad coaching.

[cavern 70]

I'm shocked the offense is that bad.

 

Coaching, winston, martin. I guess Evans even : i suppose he was an idiot today

 

Irreverent Cohen might out score Dougie after all. But I still fully expect Dougie to do better ROS. They just have too much talents on that team to be this bad. I can't think of anything except with bad coaching.

[IMMensaMind 459]

Koetter is Jeff Fischer.

 

You can tell just by looking at his fruity face.

[jimaveli 119]

Yep. The coach is bad. The qb is hurt/playing badly. The running game is predictable and basically has no shot of truly working most weeks. And Koetter casually hates Doug. He cant wait to randomly pull him out to put Simms or someone in the game.

 

He looks to be running hard and making something out of nothing more often than not. But hes basically never going to score a td unless he breaks one. And they arent calling enough good plays and blocking well enough to create any of that right now.

 

I traded him in a package and upgraded at qb. I still think Martin has good games this year. But good luck calling when its going to happen. And weve seen the appalling floor now.

[TheUsualSuspect 207]

Saints D > '86 Bears

[weepaws 2,461]

They need to look for a Rb going into next season.

 

They need a running game.

 

And they don't have a Rb on their roster that can help the passing game.

 

The Coach is awful.

 

The Olins stinks.

[weepaws 2,461]

Apologize? Lol for having an opinion ? Wow calm down guy

Lol yeah I was just kidding.

 

Thought I would lighted things up.

 

Like I said you might indeed be right, but I'm just not sold that Martin is more then a rb3.

 

His performance and his lack of ablity to stay on the field is apart of it.

 

The Bucs need to let him go and get another Rb for next season.

[stonewall 647]

Where is the Tampa Bay dude that posts all the time?

 

He was saying before season that no team in he NFL would be able to stay with the Bucs this year.

[American Chewy 98]

Where is the Tampa Bay dude that posts all the time?

 

He was saying before season that no team in he NFL would be able to stay with the Bucs this year.

 

 

must have meant that all the teams would be so far ahead

[polecatt 403]

They were a joke today.

You could say what is said about Martin about the entire team today.

[jimaveli 119]

8 touches. Less than 20 snaps. Thats almost Peterson in New Orleans usage and a far worse team. Im not sold on the idea that Doug is helplessly bad somehow. I am comfortable in my assertion that Dirk and/or the OC almost obviously hates him and only uses him because someone else pushes for it. Maybe hes earning the hatred during the week somehow. Maybe hes messing up a play or two in ways where the coaches would know. But we pedestrians cant seem to see it. I wish Greg Cosell or someone would tell me via film review what the deal is. I lightweight want to trade for doug in another league. A dude has a bunch of rbs and limited WRs after a decent top 2 and Im just the opposite.

[cavern 70]

8 touches. Less than 20 snaps. Thats almost Peterson in New Orleans usage and a far worse team. Im not sold on the idea that Doug is helplessly bad somehow. I am comfortable in my assertion that Dirk and/or the OC almost obviously hates him and only uses him because someone else pushes for it. Maybe hes earning the hatred during the week somehow. Maybe hes messing up a play or two in ways where the coaches would know. But we pedestrians cant seem to see it. I wish Greg Cosell or someone would tell me via film review what the deal is. I lightweight want to trade for doug in another league. A dude has a bunch of rbs and limited WRs after a decent top 2 and Im just the opposite.

up until yesterday his usage was great, but he wasn't doing alot with it

[Kent 228]

Where is the Tampa Bay dude that posts all the time?

 

He was saying before season that no team in he NFL would be able to stay with the Bucs this year.

He's kicking himself for being fooled by the street preaching snake oil salesman named Winston.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

Where is the Tampa Bay dude that posts all the time?

 

He was saying before season that no team in he NFL would be able to stay with the Bucs this year.

 

Right here!

 

This team is a complete mystery. The talent is there and there is no question of that. Evans, Jackson, Brate, and Martin are a combination of talent that no team equals, and that is all bias aside. There are only about 7 teams that can boast about having an "X" WR like Evans (Pitt, NYG, CIN, ATL, GB, ??? anyone else ???), of those handful of teams, how many have a deep threat talent like Jackson? None. How many have a great TE like Brate? None. How many have an RB that has 1400-1800 yard potential? One? Two?

 

The problem is either or both... Koetter or Winston. I've had my reservations on both.

 

Winston was a 2nd half compiler in college. It works in the ACC, but it doesn't work in the NFL. He does have talent and potential. He had things he needed to work on like "touch", pocket awareness, and accuracy. At times he did show that he was improving, so I waited to see if it continued. I gave him the benefit of the doubt because he was improving. Now? It appears that he maximized his potential and that's it. Well, that's how it appears. What I don't know is, is he the real problem?

 

Which leads me to Koetter. My reservations with him were that his history wasn't very promising. In his last 2 stops, Jacksonville and Atlanta, in both places, his QB's best season was in the first year. Both Gabbert and Ryan were pretty much at their best in that first year and never really made any real improvements. What I don't know is... was that because of Koetter or because he was working with limited QB's? Winston is way more talented than both Gabbert and Ryan and his first 2 seasons were better than both of those 2.

So, is the problem coaching? Winston? Or both? I don't know. But what I do know is that the Bucs should draft a QB next year. Someone that Koetter really likes, somewhere around the 3rd or 4th round. If Winston still can't get his game right, then make the move to the kid. Give the kid a season to see how things play out. If coaching is the problem, fire Koetter and give the next coach the option of whether to keep the kid or draft his own. In the end, but the start of 2020, there's a chance the Bucs have a new QB and HC.

[cavern 70]

as big a dumpster fire as TB is right now, i really do wonder if winston just generally being an idiot (and not a leader) is a big part of it.

 

actually just saw the poking of lattimore video. i'm pretty sure winston is a big part of their problem

He's kicking himself for being fooled by the street preaching snake oil salesman named Winston.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

He's kicking himself for being fooled by the street preaching snake oil salesman named Winston.

 

I was never fooled. I never once said he was a lock. I've maintained that he the potential.

[Kent 228]

 

I was never fooled. I never once said he was a lock. I've maintained that he the potential.

Come now. Lies are ugly.

[cavern 70]

man, i'm sorry... i'm not a TB fan per se, but i did sort of adopt them as i was heavily invested in them in FFB - had winston as my QB in all 3 leagues (well, backup in one), have martin in 2 leagues and evans in 1....

 

i really drank the kool aid re: how good the offense was going to be. this is nuts. luckily i have sort of been able to move away in a few respects and still have promise in fantasy.

 

i feel terribly for you guys that are diehard fans. my gut right now says that you all need to move very quickly away from winston. i think he's still the same guy that stood on the cafeteria table and shouted nonsense at FSU.

 

I was never fooled. I never once said he was a lock. I've maintained that he the potential.

[DankNuggs 305]

Jets have a better offense than TB, let that sink in

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

Come now. Lies are ugly.

 

Only by those telling them.

[brotherbock 349]

 

This team is a complete mystery. The talent is there and there is no question of that. Evans, Jackson, Brate, and Martin are a combination of talent that no team equals, and that is all bias aside. There are only about 7 teams that can boast about having an "X" WR like Evans (Pitt, NYG, CIN, ATL, GB, ??? anyone else ???), of those handful of teams, how many have a deep threat talent like Jackson? None. How many have a great TE like Brate? None. How many have an RB that has 1400-1800 yard potential? One? Two?

 

Not sure how 'great' Brate is. He's not bad. But he's not elite. He's in there with Doyle, Cook, Walker, etc. Martin has hit 1400 yards in the two 16 game seasons he's played. The 1800 top end looks like a stretch. He's averaged 4.1 y/a. And Jackson ain't what he once was. Not saying these guys are bad by any means.

 

Houston is right there with those numbers. Hopkins - Evans, Fuller - Jackson, Fiedorowitz < Brate, Miller - Martin (Miller has a higher y/a career than Martin).

The teams you mentioned as well.

Then there are other teams who give in one position and take in another while still being in about the same ballpark - NE (Cooks/Gronk/RB platoon), DAL (Dez/Witten/Zeke, LAC (WR platoon/Gordon/Henry), LAR (Gurley/Kupp/Cook), MIN (Diggs/Theilen/Cook-McK/Rudolph), KC (Hill/Kelce/Hunt).

 

Here's my point - reasonable arguments can be made for your list + my list being in the same range of talent as the Bucs. That's 12 teams so far. Suddenly a lot of competition, they aren't standing out so much imo. Now add Winston and play calling, and there's a good idea why they aren't doing so well.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

 

Not sure how 'great' Brate is. He's not bad. But he's not elite. He's in there with Doyle, Cook, Walker, etc. Martin has hit 1400 yards in the two 16 game seasons he's played. The 1800 top end looks like a stretch. He's averaged 4.1 y/a. And Jackson ain't what he once was. Not saying these guys are bad by any means.

 

Houston is right there with those numbers. Hopkins - Evans, Fuller - Jackson, Fiedorowitz < Brate, Miller - Martin (Miller has a higher y/a career than Martin).

The teams you mentioned as well.

Then there are other teams who give in one position and take in another while still being in about the same ballpark - NE (Cooks/Gronk/RB platoon), DAL (Dez/Witten/Zeke, LAC (WR platoon/Gordon/Henry), LAR (Gurley/Kupp/Cook), MIN (Diggs/Theilen/Cook-McK/Rudolph), KC (Hill/Kelce/Hunt).

 

Here's my point - reasonable arguments can be made for your list + my list being in the same range of talent as the Bucs. That's 12 teams so far. Suddenly a lot of competition, they aren't standing out so much imo. Now add Winston and play calling, and there's a good idea why they aren't doing so well.

 

I never said Brate was elite, but he is in the next rung below. He's not a part of the Kelce, Gronk, Ertz class, but after those guys, I wouldn't take anyone else over Brate. The guy is a red zone stud and has an extremely high catch rate.

 

Martin had two 1400 yard rushing seasons, but his total yardage those two seasons were around 1900 and 1700.

 

I think you're taking tremendous liberties by including teams like the Chargers, Rams, Vikings, KC, and Dallas, even Houston. I believe every one of those teams would have a better record if they switched their skill position talent with the Bucs.

[nobody 2,044]

Martin always seemed like a classic contract year player. 2020 he'll kill it.

[redsrback 30]

 

Right here!

 

This team is a complete mystery. The talent is there and there is no question of that. Evans, Jackson, Brate, and Martin are a combination of talent that no team equals, and that is all bias aside. There are only about 7 teams that can boast about having an "X" WR like Evans (Pitt, NYG, CIN, ATL, GB, ??? anyone else ???), of those handful of teams, how many have a deep threat talent like Jackson? None. How many have a great TE like Brate? None. How many have an RB that has 1400-1800 yard potential? One? Two?

 

The problem is either or both... Koetter or Winston. I've had my reservations on both.

 

Winston was a 2nd half compiler in college. It works in the ACC, but it doesn't work in the NFL. He does have talent and potential. He had things he needed to work on like "touch", pocket awareness, and accuracy. At times he did show that he was improving, so I waited to see if it continued. I gave him the benefit of the doubt because he was improving. Now? It appears that he maximized his potential and that's it. Well, that's how it appears. What I don't know is, is he the real problem?

 

Which leads me to Koetter. My reservations with him were that his history wasn't very promising. In his last 2 stops, Jacksonville and Atlanta, in both places, his QB's best season was in the first year. Both Gabbert and Ryan were pretty much at their best in that first year and never really made any real improvements. What I don't know is... was that because of Koetter or because he was working with limited QB's? Winston is way more talented than both Gabbert and Ryan and his first 2 seasons were better than both of those 2.

So, is the problem coaching? Winston? Or both? I don't know. But what I do know is that the Bucs should draft a QB next year. Someone that Koetter really likes, somewhere around the 3rd or 4th round. If Winston still can't get his game right, then make the move to the kid. Give the kid a season to see how things play out. If coaching is the problem, fire Koetter and give the next coach the option of whether to keep the kid or draft his own. In the end, but the start of 2020, there's a chance the Bucs have a new QB and HC.

All this, just say I was wrong