Is it time to get out of the market?

[NorthernVike 2,086]

As if we needed any more reasons to doubt the media bias.

 

 

MSN Money page headline.

 

Dow set to jump 600 points as Binden scores big wins on Super Tuesday.  

 

 

Yeah that's it.  

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

4 minutes ago, edjr said:

https://www.listenmoneymatters.com/401k-loan/

 

(I checked mine as it's right on the paper work)

You have five years to pay back a 401k loan.

There is no early repayment penalty. Most plans allow you to repay the loan through payroll deductions, the same way you invested the money.

 

Myths About Borrowing Against a 401k

There is a lot of fear-mongering about borrowing from your 401k and for a good reason. Not everyone who does it would make good use of the money by investing in a home or an education.

If borrowing were not discouraged, too many people would raid their account for silly reasons that will hurt their retirement savings.

But not all of the doom and gloom is entirely true. Borrowing from your 401k is not necessarily damaging to your retirement savings. When you pay the loan (yourself) back, the payments go back into your investments.

Because you’re paying interest, you’re paying back a little more than you borrowed, so you’re putting additional money into the account.

As long as any interest payments are the same or greater than what you lost during the time that money wasn’t invested, your savings aren’t affected and can increase if the interest is more than any earnings losses.

That says nothing about whether the money you are paying back is pre-tax or post-tax.  That is my point.  If the money that you take the loan out for makes more than 5.75% or gives you an equivalent savings (for example, paying off higher interest rate debt), then it could work for you.  Otherwise, it is not like taking out the loan will give you 5.75% back on your "investment".  

[edjr 6,580]

Also, if you're wondering how I pulled this off. I've only been at the current company a little over a year.  You can't take a loan on a 401k if you're not working for that company anymore. I rolled my entire 401k from the last place into the current place.  They both were Fidelity it only took 3 days

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

2 minutes ago, NorthernVike said:

As if we needed any more reasons to doubt the media bias.

MSN Money page headline.

Dow set to jump 600 points as Binden scores big wins on Super Tuesday.  

Yeah that's it.  

What will be the reason when it ends up down 600 for the day?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

1 minute ago, edjr said:

I can't help you if you can't read.

You have five years to pay back a 401k loan.

There is no early repayment penalty. Most plans allow you to repay the loan through payroll deductions, the same way you invested the money.

Yes, it is through a payroll deduction.  However, the deduction for the loan payment happens from the money AFTER taxes are withheld.  Talk to me in a year when you are doing your 2020 taxes.  BTW - I am not saying that the loan amount is taxable (yet).  

[NorthernVike 2,086]

4 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

What will be the reason when it ends up down 600 for the day?

The same reason it's been focked up for the past week and a half.  Unfounded fear of a cold.  

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

3 minutes ago, NorthernVike said:

The same reason it's been focked up for the past week and a half.  Unfounded fear of a cold.  

Not sure how unfounded it is.  The mortality rate is above 3% and it is impacting supply chains.  I think that people are panicking and are going overboard, but this will impact business, which will in turn impact the market.  

[NorthernVike 2,086]

Just now, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Not sure how unfounded it is.  The mortality rate is above 3% and it is impacting supply chains.  I think that people are panicking and are going overboard, but this will impact business, which will in turn impact the market.  

What's the mortality rate for working age people excluding ones with pre-existing conditions?  I'm betting closer to .01% 

[edjr 6,580]

5 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Yes, it is through a payroll deduction.  However, the deduction for the loan payment happens from the money AFTER taxes are withheld.  Talk to me in a year when you are doing your 2020 taxes.  BTW - I am not saying that the loan amount is taxable (yet).  

You were right. Thank you. The only difference is I will lower my contributions not raise them :d

[Hardcore troubadour 15,423]

5 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Not sure how unfounded it is.  The mortality rate is above 3% and it is impacting supply chains.  I think that people are panicking and are going overboard, but this will impact business, which will in turn impact the market.  

Exactly. Why are people struggling with this? The goods aren’t getting to market.  Who cares why? 

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

1 minute ago, NorthernVike said:

What's the mortality rate for working age people excluding ones with pre-existing conditions?  I'm betting closer to .01% 

I doubt that and it really isn't that important.  Just because you and I might not be affected by the disease that does not mean that we want to infect others around us.  Do you have parents in their 70's, people around you that might have a compromised immune-system (cancer, diabetes, etc.), very small children or, more importantly, do you interact with anyone who does?  If so, the way to deal with that is to not have people infecting each other even if the disease won't kill you. 

As such, people will end up working more from home or will be home sick dealing with recovery.  Look at the economy in China.  Has it been impacted?  Your damn right it has.  

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

1 minute ago, edjr said:

You were right. Thank you. The only difference is I will lower my contributions not raise them :d

I have people who work for me and I have had these conversations with them before. Not always a bad idea, but you need to know the details.  Good that you will still keep saving at that 15%, though.  Max the bad boy out and limit spending to a reasonable (with the exception of coke and hookers). 

[edjr 6,580]

I'm always wrong  

 

as I said in a previous post, I appreciate you and everyone else's advice.

[vuduchile 1,945]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Exactly. Why are people struggling with this? The goods aren’t getting to market.  Who cares why? 

 

1 hour ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

I doubt that and it really isn't that important.  Just because you and I might not be affected by the disease that does not mean that we want to infect others around us.  Do you have parents in their 70's, people around you that might have a compromised immune-system (cancer, diabetes, etc.), very small children or, more importantly, do you interact with anyone who does?  If so, the way to deal with that is to not have people infecting each other even if the disease won't kill you. 

As such, people will end up working more from home or will be home sick dealing with recovery.  Look at the economy in China.  Has it been impacted?  Your damn right it has.  

Yes.  Warranted or not, the panic slows down the economy.  Travel is curtailed, people don't show up for work, etc.

Asia, Italy, Greece, Washington State and any commerce connected to those locations are already feeling the impact.   

Interestingly,  I haven't seen any of those cool Corona vacation commercials in awhile.  You know the folks at BUD are seriously pissed that this virus was named Corona.  BUD is down 46% from it's 52 wk. high.  Coincidence?

 

 

[vuduchile 1,945]

We haven't felt much of a hit yet, but there several other store owners around the country reporting that customers are cancelling and/or postponing their flooring installations.  

I suspect there are more consumers who are putting projects off until this thing settles down.  

On the other hand, the sports card biz is going full tilt.  Basketball is still on fire, and baseball is starting to heat up with 2 recent releases and MLB spring training is producing plenty of hype.   Most of that biz is done via USPS instead of in person.  But I have heard some question how long this virus could live on a piece of plastic. 

  

 

[Alias Detective 1,400]

Sell with the idea of buying back lower.  There WILL BE A LOWER BOTTOM.

 

[NorthernVike 2,086]

1 hour ago, Alias Detective said:

Sell with the idea of buying back lower.  There WILL BE A LOWER BOTTOM.

 

Not so fast.  Joe Biden did well last night and the dow is up over 1100 points.  All is well. 

[Alias Detective 1,400]

11 minutes ago, NorthernVike said:

Not so fast.  Joe Biden did well last night and the dow is up over 1100 points.  All is well. 

Precisely

[lickin_starfish 1,936]

What the fook does a Biden nomination have to do with this gain? I think the Media is trying to associate Biden with a booming economy.

[Cdub100 3,907]

28 minutes ago, lickin_starfish said:

What the fook does a Biden nomination have to do with this gain? I think the Media is trying to associate Biden with a booming economy.

Bingo! If anything it was a market reaction to the Socialist preaching how he's taking everyone's wealth losing. Literally nothing to do with Biden.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,423]

1 hour ago, lickin_starfish said:

What the fook does a Biden nomination have to do with this gain? I think the Media is trying to associate Biden with a booming economy.

Because Biden will do the bidding of the financial sector. He has been his whole life. And him and his family got rich from it. That’s why. 

[NorthernVike 2,086]

Biden sniffed a baby and the Dow dropped 700 points.  

[vuduchile 1,945]

On 3/4/2020 at 11:36 AM, vuduchile said:

We haven't felt much of a hit yet, but there several other store owners around the country reporting that customers are cancelling and/or postponing their flooring installations.  

I suspect there are more consumers who are putting projects off until this thing settles down.  

On the other hand, the sports card biz is going full tilt.  Basketball is still on fire, and baseball is starting to heat up with 2 recent releases and MLB spring training is producing plenty of hype.   Most of that biz is done via USPS instead of in person.  But I have heard some question how long this virus could live on a piece of plastic. 

  

 

Felt some impact this morning. 
 

Had a substantial vinyl order coming out of China put on back order with no eta.  - gotta find an alternative for the customer 

 

Went to place an order of hardwood that’s also mgf’d in China and was told they’ve been expecting a shipment but couldn’t give me an eta.    Again, we’ll find an alternative but it won’t be as cheap as the Chinese stuff. 
 

We had moved away from most Chinese goods back when the tarriffs started heating up but we still get people who want the cheap stuff sometimes. 
 

Gonna be much tougher to find alternatives for tile since so much of the polished stuff comes from Asia   

 

[lod001 1,344]

Sell you sons o biatches, SELL!!!!!!!    

[Alias Detective 1,400]

20 hours ago, vuduchile said:

Felt some impact this morning. 
 

Had a substantial vinyl order coming out of China put on back order with no eta.  - gotta find an alternative for the customer 

 

Went to place an order of hardwood that’s also mgf’d in China and was told they’ve been expecting a shipment but couldn’t give me an eta.    Again, we’ll find an alternative but it won’t be as cheap as the Chinese stuff. 
 

We had moved away from most Chinese goods back when the tarriffs started heating up but we still get people who want the cheap stuff sometimes. 
 

Gonna be much tougher to find alternatives for tile since so much of the polished stuff comes from Asia   

 

This might be a great time to reposition to a U.S.A. made flooring company.  I think “made in the USA” will gain a lot of steam again.

[Cdub100 3,907]

1 hour ago, Alias Detective said:

This might be a great time to reposition to a U.S.A. made flooring company.  I think “made in the USA” will gain a lot of steam again.

Trump has been telling us to do this since he was elected. Buy American Hire American.

[vuduchile 1,945]

1 hour ago, Alias Detective said:

This might be a great time to reposition to a U.S.A. made flooring company.  I think “made in the USA” will gain a lot of steam again.

 

12 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

Trump has been telling us to do this since he was elected. Buy American Hire American.

It's really tough to be 100% USA made in all categories. 

All our carpet comes from USA factories.  However, they source materials from around the world.  Lots of wool from New Zealand, for example.  

We have also moved our tile mix to about 80% USA made.  We have a source in TN that makes some great stuff, but as I mentioned previously, most polished natural stone comes from overseas.  

Wood flooring is tricky.  There are several quality sources here in the USA and we use them, but they are all on the high end.  If you want to sell any qty of hardwood, you'll need imports to be competitive.

 

 

[Cdub100 3,907]

46 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

 

It's really tough to be 100% USA made in all categories. 

All our carpet comes from USA factories.  However, they source materials from around the world.  Lots of wool from New Zealand, for example.  

We have also moved our tile mix to about 80% USA made.  We have a source in TN that makes some great stuff, but as I mentioned previously, most polished natural stone comes from overseas.  

Wood flooring is tricky.  There are several quality sources here in the USA and we use them, but they are all on the high end.  If you want to sell any qty of hardwood, you'll need imports to be competitive.

 

 

Totally agree it's super hard. Add into it made in America can mean assembled.

[lod001 1,344]

Get out while you still got some $ left. This market is taking a huge sh1t. S&P looking to open at August 2018 levels. Finishing off wiping out all of 2019's gains. Sell you biatches. We are just hitting the 'fear' level and haven't even gotten to 'despondency'.

My mistake. We could open at 1-22-2018 levels.

[mmmmm...beer 807]

Halted futures trading earlier tonight.

We're absolutely focked tomorrow.  I predict I lose over -20k before its done.  I wouldn't be surprised if they suspend trading.

I'm all out tomorrow.... this thing is now feeling like we're halfway there... not anywhere even close to the end.

[Cdub100 3,907]

6 hours ago, mmmmm...beer said:

Halted futures trading earlier tonight.

We're absolutely focked tomorrow.  I predict I lose over -20k before its done.  I wouldn't be surprised if they suspend trading.

I'm all out tomorrow.... this thing is now feeling like we're halfway there... not anywhere even close to the end.

Even I'm worried

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I am buying.  Not a ton, but some.  Still too much fear and panic to go all in, but the numbers are still good.  

[NorthernVike 2,086]

6 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

I am buying.  Not a ton, but some.  Still too much fear and panic to go all in, but the numbers are still good.  

This.  I'll wait a few hours this morning to see what direction it goes after the open but I have 5 grand on the sidelines and I'm willing to put it in at these levels.    It may go down further but I'm still buying at a discount to two weeks ago.  The price of oil concerns me more than this virus at this point. 

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

7 minutes ago, NorthernVike said:

This.  I'll wait a few hours this morning to see what direction it goes after the open but I have 5 grand on the sidelines and I'm willing to put it in at these levels.    It may go down further but I'm still buying at a discount to two weeks ago.  The price of oil concerns me more than this virus at this point. 

Agree on the oil prices.  I picked a bad time to go in on XOM. 

This time, I am just going to go with some indexes that are trading at 52 week lows.  Things like SPY and QQQ.

[NorthernVike 2,086]

1 minute ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Agree on the oil prices.  I picked a bad time to go in on XOM. 

This time, I am just going to go with some indexes that are trading at 52 week lows.  Things like SPY and QQQ.

If I would have only stuck with those after the crash of 99' I'd be much better off.  

[nobody 2,671]

Circuit breaker triggered at -7% halting trading for 15 minutes.  Next possible breaker at 13%

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

OUCH

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Put on your seatbelts. It is going to be a bumpy ride. 

[Strike 5,538]

2 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Put on your seatbelts. It is going to be a bumpy ride. 

Just logged in to Vanguard, hoping to do a little buying.  Got this:

 

Quote

 

Market Trading

Market trading is halted due to steep declines. Orders placed when trading is halted may not execute until trading resumes. If the market doesnt reopen on a day after trading halts, all unexecuted day orders will be cancelled.

 

 

[NorthernVike 2,086]