Coronavirus - Doomsday

[Hawkeye21 2,401]

3 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Which is why I said painting with such a wide brush as HT was doing....and calling teachers ###### and saying they didn't step up is dumb

I agree.  They have a very strong bias against teachers.

[vomit 502]

4 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Which is why I said painting with such a wide brush as HT was doing....and calling teachers ###### and saying they didn't step up is dumb

In general, anytime you talk in such absolutes you sound like a fool, as HT does most of the time.

[vomit 502]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I agree.  They have a very strong bias against teachers.

It's because teachers unions and education in general have a left leaning political ideology, and as right wingers, they feel it is their duty to oppose.  They have zero critical thinking skills.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,517]

It’s simple. Keep your politics out of the classroom and get rid of the masks and stop using Covid as an excuse. They didn’t even do state testing during this, every kid just passed. We tend to notice these things.  You would be amazed how fast parents would calm down with some simple requests being honored. Until then GFY. 

[jerryskids 6,853]

What I find funny about teachers is:  we all know one or more, and all of the ones we know are awesome.  My SIL taught pre-school and was the most caring, engaged teacher ever.

So who knows the bad ones?  Does anyone know a teacher who they can say "yeah, they just kind of mail it in and are waiting to retire and collect benefits"?   

[Hardcore troubadour 15,517]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

What I find funny about teachers is:  we all know one or more, and all of the ones we know are awesome.  My SIL taught pre-school and was the most caring, engaged teacher ever.

So who knows the bad ones?  Does anyone know a teacher who they can say "yeah, they just kind of mail it in and are waiting to retire and collect benefits"?   

Yes.  But I think the real problem is the teachers in the cities and heavy blue areas. They have the numbers and the largest unions, thus the most influence. They are setting the tone for the rest of the country. 

[Hawkeye21 2,401]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

It’s simple. Keep your politics out of the classroom and get rid of the masks and stop using Covid as an excuse. They didn’t even do state testing during this, every kid just passed. We tend to notice these things.  You would be amazed how fast parents would calm down with some simple requests being honored. Until then GFY. 

Aren't parents trying to involve their own politics into the education system as well?  Trying to ban books and telling them what they should teach?  It works both ways.

[vomit 502]

7 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

What I find funny about teachers is:  we all know one or more, and all of the ones we know are awesome.  My SIL taught pre-school and was the most caring, engaged teacher ever.

So who knows the bad ones?  Does anyone know a teacher who they can say "yeah, they just kind of mail it in and are waiting to retire and collect benefits"?   

Yes I've seen several over the years.  It was said earlier, there are a$$sholes across society, including teachers.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,517]

11 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Aren't parents trying to involve their own politics into the education system as well?  Trying to ban books and telling them what they should teach?  It works both ways.

There are billions of books. I don’t think it’s too hard to find ones everyone can agree on. You can stop throwing that red herring out there. 

[Hawkeye21 2,401]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

There are billions of books. I don’t think it’s too hard to find ones everyone can agree on. You can stop throwing that red herring out there. 

I know you don't get the point of this so you can just ignore my posts on banning books going forward.

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

23 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

It’s simple. Keep your politics out of the classroom and get rid of the masks and stop using Covid as an excuse. They didn’t even do state testing during this, every kid just passed. We tend to notice these things.  You would be amazed how fast parents would calm down with some simple requests being honored. Until then GFY. 

Teachers are not indoctrinating kids by and large. I teach A Raisin in the Sun. I mention redlining because it plays into the book. We spend maybe 5-10 minutes on it and then we move on. For some people that is probably "way too much..." But it is a real part of history, it was occurring around the time the book is set- we mention it for context, we move on. There was no state testing in 2020 because the testing was going to occur 2 months into the pandemic and states and schools could not figure out the best way to accomplish it. They also did not feel it was right to just fail a student who was at home and maybe going through all manner of things. But last school year was as normal as could possibly be. 

Many schools have gotten rid of mask mandates. Many states are doing away with them. COVID is not an excuse- it has taxed a system that was already in bad shape. These are all facts. 

23 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

What I find funny about teachers is:  we all know one or more, and all of the ones we know are awesome.  My SIL taught pre-school and was the most caring, engaged teacher ever.

So who knows the bad ones?  Does anyone know a teacher who they can say "yeah, they just kind of mail it in and are waiting to retire and collect benefits"?   

Of course there are a few teachers like that. I mean a teacher who is 2 years from retirement is not always going to do a lot to change their ways because they see the end. Very similar to a lot of jobs where people just try not to rock the boat right before retirement. Lots of people who own roofing companies are not necessarily still climbing roofs at 65. They are paying people to do it. 

20 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Yes.  But I think the real problem is the teachers in the cities and heavy blue areas. They have the numbers and the largest unions, thus the most influence. They are setting the tone for the rest of the country. 

I live in a red district. I pay the same amount of union dues that people in the blue areas do around me. My union acknowledges our voices here just like they do anyone else. There is no tone setting. You are so off base on this union stuff and are just showcasing you have no idea how it all works. 

19 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Aren't parents trying to involve their own politics into the education system as well?  Trying to ban books and telling them what they should teach?  It works both ways.

Yes of course they are. The books they are looking to ban are for political reasons. And there are all kinds of restrictions as to what health classes can and can't say because of religious and political beliefs. Parents aren't complaining because a teacher is trying to bring their "politics" into the classroom....they are complaining because the teacher is saying something different than what the parent wants their kid to believe. 

[Casual Observer 597]

14 hours ago, TimHauck said:

ADE, lol.  The vaccine isn’t very effective against Omicron infection (it was effective against infection of earlier variants and is still effective against hospitalization & death from Omicron), but there’s no ADE.

Correct, 2021 numbers are still being finalized.  But it will likely be a minimal increase vs 2020 (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/health/2021-likely-to-eclipse-last-year-as-nations-deadliest-cdc-says), while 2020 was a double digit increase vs 2019, the largest year over year change in deaths since 1918.

The increase in both 2021 and 2020 vs 2019 is obviously Covid, anyone that doesn’t see that doesn’t have a brain.  If you’re asking why Covid deaths were higher in 2021 despite the vaccine, it’s because a significant portion occurred in January and February before many people had a chance to get vaccinated.  After the vaccines were widely available, Delta hit which was overall deadlier.   Nonetheless, it was (and is) still overwhelmingly the unvaccinated that are dying.  Just look at the deaths by age data I directed BudBro to look at - spikes in total deaths correlate exactly with Covid spikes, and while the older more vaccinated population did in fact see lower Covid deaths in 2021, the younger less vaccinated population saw higher Covid deaths in 2021 compared to 2020.

You should go back to predicting that death waves would eventually come down.  At least then you knew you’d be right eventually. 

 

 

ADE is a well-known phenomenon:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34384810/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-00789-5

I doubt the mRNA vaccines work at all against Omicron:

https://fortune.com/2022/01/19/covid-19-boosters-block-immunity-omicron-study-finds/

but, so what?  Omicron has been regarded worldwide as severe as a cold.  As a simple matter of a priori reasoning, the fact that one would need a booster indicates that the vaccines do not provide lasting protection and the fact that any benefit provided wanes supports this view.  But even the WHO has announced multiple boosters are not effective strategy going forward.  who could have foreseen that this Corona virus would mutate (though it seems to have mutated to a less virulent strain, which some researchers predicted at the outset).

Your second claim is that US deaths increased in 2021 from 2020 because a significant portion of deaths occurred in January and February of 2021.  While that is an entirely expected response from you, it is false:

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Monthly-Provisional-Counts-of-Deaths-by-Select-Cau/9dzk-mvmi/data

We do have 373,629 deaths in January 2021, which is high in comparison to other months, but they rebound to close to 300,000 per month by the end of the year.  Something is dramatically off for a population that was increasingly vaxxed and boosted as time wore on.  Deaths for 2020 were 3,384,426.  Deaths, provisionally, for 2021 are around 3,362,000.  Would you just look at those Covid death numbers at the end of 2021?  What's going on Big Guy, you told me vaccines were effective?  We have just as many deaths in 2021, with deaths attributable to Covid accelerating in the end months of 2021.  I'm pretty sure you knew that, though.  However, given this government and it ineptitude, who really knows about the categorized Covid deaths, in light of Ms. Walensky's revelations.  We could go over to a place like, oh I don't know, Scotland and take a look at their stats for some insight, but I don't have the time to burn on that today and you'd just claim that Covid, in all of its variations, behaved differently there.

[edjr 6,608]

Maskachusetts just lifted the mask mandate on schools as of Feb 28. 

 

[Casual Observer 597]

15 hours ago, TimHauck said:

Please post a link I posted that was wrong.  I’ll wait.

Like I can post a link that shows you were wrong.  A task so prodigious so as not be possible to accomplish.  You can look at my response to your prior post to me, which catches you in two falsehoods.  Others too numerous to mention but can be found by randomly clicking on any of your posts.  The last one where the Twitter poster said the US military stats were false because the proponent didn't post the data was pretty funny.  How could you evaluate a data set as false when you admit you haven't seen it in the first place?  You'll never live down the eric Topol stuff either.

[Fireballer 2,644]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Aren't parents trying to involve their own politics into the education system as well?  Trying to ban books and telling them what they should teach?  It works both ways.

Ummm....no.  Parents are trying to get them to teach.  End of story.  No more, no less.  Just fuking teach.  Schools have become social engineering projects, and not sources of knowledge.  I'll raise my kids and guide their morality, you teach them academic stuff.

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

1 minute ago, Fireballer said:

Ummm....no.  Parents are trying to get them to teach.  End of story.  No more, no less.  Just fuking teach.  Schools have become social engineering projects, and not sources of knowledge.  I'll raise my kids and guide their morality, you teach them academic stuff.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

[DonS 3,292]

5 minutes ago, edjr said:

Maskachusetts just lifted the mask mandate on schools as of Feb 28. 

 

It always makes me wonder how they announce mandates will go away on XYZ date.  Why not just say "as of today they're gone"?  Like it's going to take 3 weeks to take down all the signs that businesses had to tape to their front door?

[vomit 502]

2 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Ummm....no.  Parents are trying to get them to teach.  End of story.  No more, no less.  Just fuking teach.  Schools have become social engineering projects, and not sources of knowledge.  I'll raise my kids and guide their morality, you teach them academic stuff.

You want to control what they teach, right?

[Baker Boy 1,704]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Aren't parents trying to involve their own politics into the education system as well?  Trying to ban books and telling them what they should teach?  It works both ways.

Of course they are because they are their kids. Imagine, parents wanting a voice in their children’s education.The education they Rex paying for.

[Hawkeye21 2,401]

2 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Ummm....no.  Parents are trying to get them to teach.  End of story.  No more, no less.  Just fuking teach.  Schools have become social engineering projects, and not sources of knowledge.  I'll raise my kids and guide their morality, you teach them academic stuff.

They are teaching them academic stuff.  If the problem you have is the criteria they teach then you need to work towards changing our education system through the government.

 

[Hawkeye21 2,401]

1 minute ago, Baker Boy said:

Of course they are because they are their kids. Imagine, parents wanting a voice in their children’s education.The education they Rex paying for.

Wanting to control what you child is taught is understandable but actually allowing parents to enforce what they want is not acceptable.  If parents want to have complete control over what their child is taught then they have the option for home school or private lessons. 

[Fireballer 2,644]

44 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Teachers are not indoctrinating kids by and large. I teach A Raisin in the Sun. I mention redlining because it plays into the book. We spend maybe 5-10 minutes on it and then we move on. For some people that is probably "way too much..." But it is a real part of history, it was occurring around the time the book is set- we mention it for context, we move on. There was no state testing in 2020 because the testing was going to occur 2 months into the pandemic and states and schools could not figure out the best way to accomplish it. They also did not feel it was right to just fail a student who was at home and maybe going through all manner of things. But last school year was as normal as could possibly be. 

Many schools have gotten rid of mask mandates. Many states are doing away with them. COVID is not an excuse- it has taxed a system that was already in bad shape. These are all facts. 

Of course there are a few teachers like that. I mean a teacher who is 2 years from retirement is not always going to do a lot to change their ways because they see the end. Very similar to a lot of jobs where people just try not to rock the boat right before retirement. Lots of people who own roofing companies are not necessarily still climbing roofs at 65. They are paying people to do it. 

I live in a red district. I pay the same amount of union dues that people in the blue areas do around me. My union acknowledges our voices here just like they do anyone else. There is no tone setting. You are so off base on this union stuff and are just showcasing you have no idea how it all works. 

Yes of course they are. The books they are looking to ban are for political reasons. And there are all kinds of restrictions as to what health classes can and can't say because of religious and political beliefs. Parents aren't complaining because a teacher is trying to bring their "politics" into the classroom....they are complaining because the teacher is saying something different than what the parent wants their kid to believe. 

.  You weren't doing bad on you're "I'm a great teacher soapbox" but you had to pull the "muh parents" card.  You're quote of " teachers are saying something they don't want their kids to believe" exposed you.  End of story. 

[Fireballer 2,644]

5 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

That's so funny because it's your coping mechanism. Just fuking teach.  Sorry I hit you're sensitive button.

[Baker Boy 1,704]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

Wanting to control what you child is taught is understandable but actually allowing parents to enforce what they want is not acceptable.  If parents want to have complete control over what their child is taught then they have the option for home school or private lessons. 

No, it is a  public school system which we all pay for. I guess you don’t have kids in school.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,364]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

What I find funny about teachers is:  we all know one or more, and all of the ones we know are awesome.  My SIL taught pre-school and was the most caring, engaged teacher ever.

So who knows the bad ones?  Does anyone know a teacher who they can say "yeah, they just kind of mail it in and are waiting to retire and collect benefits"?   

lots of them

just think back on your own life, how many teachers do you really remember having an influence

 

[Baker Boy 1,704]

6 minutes ago, vomit said:

You want to control what they teach, right?

You want to control what is taught to other peoples kids, right?

[Fireballer 2,644]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Wanting to control what you child is taught is understandable but actually allowing parents to enforce what they want is not acceptable.  If parents want to have complete control over what their child is taught then they have the option for home school or private lessons. 

Where are you getting that nonsense?  Me not wanting a book illustrating teens blowing each other in a library and not wanting the school to keep secrets from me about my kids gender is not wanting total control of curriculum. 

[Hawkeye21 2,401]

Just now, Baker Boy said:

No, it is a  public school system which we all pay for. I guess you don’t have kids in school.

I know it's a public school and our public schools have to cater to a wide variety of people.  They can't be custom made for each parent's child.

I have a child in private Catholic school and a child in public school.  I wife has been a teach in a public school for over 15 years and I have close to connections to many other teachers in public and private schools.  I also know principals and counselors in both school systems.

[Fireballer 2,644]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

I know it's a public school and our public schools have to cater to a wide variety of people.  They can't be custom made for each parent's child.

Yes.  Exactly.  And accomplishing that is called teaching. That's all. That's all anyone wants.

[Hawkeye21 2,401]

Just now, Fireballer said:

Yes.  Exactly.  And accomplishing that is called teaching. That's all. That's all anyone wants.

Why don't you think that's happening now?  Do you think this is a teacher specific problem or an education system problem?

[Fireballer 2,644]

14 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

If the problem you have is the criteria they teach then you need to work towards changing our education system through the government.

 

You're right it's that easy.  Maybe you can tell that to the parents that were threatened and called terrorists by the Federal 3-letter agencies while trying at School Board meetings to do the very thing you recommend. 

[Baker Boy 1,704]

9 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I know it's a public school and our public schools have to cater to a wide variety of people.  They can't be custom made for each parent's child.

I have a child in private Catholic school and a child in public school.  I wife has been a teach in a public school for over 15 years and I have close to connections to many other teachers in public and private schools.  I also know principals and counselors in both school systems.

Nobody’s asking for custom education for each child, don’t play stupid. Our school system is failing has been ranked as low as 27th in the world with the curriculum we are using todat.

Why don’t we go back to the curriculum we used when we were number one.   As the curriculum changes towards social and political issues at the expense of math, reading, writing, etc. our rank has nose dived.

education is supposed to give the children the tools to exist in life, not tell them how to exist in life.

YEAH, USA NUMBER 27

[Fireballer 2,644]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why don't you think that's happening now?  Do you think this is a teacher specific problem or an education system problem?

Both.  The occupation of teacher has been flooded with activists as well as the system being fuked up.

[Hawkeye21 2,401]

Just now, Fireballer said:

You're right it's that easy.  Maybe you can tell that to the parents that were threatened and called terrorists by the Federal 3-letter agencies while trying at School Board meetings to do the very thing you recommend. 

That's a different issue.  I'm just trying to give our teachers a little more support because many don't anymore.  You want to fight our government on how our education system is working then I'm totally for it.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,517]

1 hour ago, Sean Mooney said:

Teachers are not indoctrinating kids by and large. I teach A Raisin in the Sun. I mention redlining because it plays into the book. We spend maybe 5-10 minutes on it and then we move on. For some people that is probably "way too much..." But it is a real part of history, it was occurring around the time the book is set- we mention it for context, we move on. There was no state testing in 2020 because the testing was going to occur 2 months into the pandemic and states and schools could not figure out the best way to accomplish it. They also did not feel it was right to just fail a student who was at home and maybe going through all manner of things. But last school year was as normal as could possibly be. 

Many schools have gotten rid of mask mandates. Many states are doing away with them. COVID is not an excuse- it has taxed a system that was already in bad shape. These are all facts. 

Of course there are a few teachers like that. I mean a teacher who is 2 years from retirement is not always going to do a lot to change their ways because they see the end. Very similar to a lot of jobs where people just try not to rock the boat right before retirement. Lots of people who own roofing companies are not necessarily still climbing roofs at 65. They are paying people to do it. 

I live in a red district. I pay the same amount of union dues that people in the blue areas do around me. My union acknowledges our voices here just like they do anyone else. There is no tone setting. You are so off base on this union stuff and are just showcasing you have no idea how it all works. 

Yes of course they are. The books they are looking to ban are for political reasons. And there are all kinds of restrictions as to what health classes can and can't say because of religious and political beliefs. Parents aren't complaining because a teacher is trying to bring their "politics" into the classroom....they are complaining because the teacher is saying something different than what the parent wants their kid to believe. 

This guy. I’ve been in four unions. I’m currently in the NYSTU. I was a union officer for 14 years, and at another union negotiated a contract with a major private college, the best one they have had. You know nothing. I’ve walked more miles to get to a picket line than you ever walked on any. I worked on and participated in voter registration drives on behalf of my union before you ever said the word union 

[Hawkeye21 2,401]

3 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

Nobody’s asking for custom education for each child, don’t play stupid. Our school system is failing has been ranked as low as 27th in the world with the curriculum we are using todat.

Why don’t we go back to the curriculum we used when we were number one.   As the curriculum changes towards social and political issues at the expense of math, reading, writing, etc.

education is supposed to give the children the tools to exist in life, not tell them how to exist in life.

YEAH, USA NUMBER 27

I'm on your side when it comes to that.  I haven't been arguing against what you're saying at all.  I'm just trying to defend our teachers because that's where a lot of the blame is being placed.

[Hawkeye21 2,401]

3 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Both.  The occupation of teacher has been flooded with activists as well as the system being fuked up.

Is there date to back up that claim?  I know it may seem that why when watching Fox News or OANN but is it factual?  How do you solve this issue?  We are already struggling to get people to teach so how can you improve it?  Maybe more conservative thinking people need to get into teaching.

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

16 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

.  You weren't doing bad on you're "I'm a great teacher soapbox" but you had to pull the "muh parents" card.  You're quote of " teachers are saying something they don't want their kids to believe" exposed you.  End of story. 

It isn't a card. I've seen it happen to people. Again- I gave you a prime example. I've done that lesson that way for a decade. I'm not indoctrinating kids. I'm literally just doing it to give context. It is impossible to talk about Raisin in the Sun and the climatic scene without discussing the very real historical example of redlining and racism of the suburbs. But I don't dwell on it. I mention the concept of redlining. We watch a short video on it. We move on. But a parent could piss and moan tomorrow and work to get it pulled. And why? Because it contradicts something they believe. They don't care what I'm doing, or how I'm doing it, or the context of doing it. They just don't want it done. And the context part is key to me. 

I'm not trying to, and I would never tell a kid- to believe what I say over their parents..in any manner. But the purpose of school is to hear all kinds of informational angles, but also know how to take from that information. Again- my goal, and no teacher goal, is about telling kids what to think. It is about asking to think about what they think. 

[vomit 502]

18 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

You want to control what is taught to other peoples kids, right?

No, I dont want to control anything that is taught in school.

[Baker Boy 1,704]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm on your side when it comes to that.  I haven't been arguing against what you're saying at all.  I'm just trying to defend our teachers because that's where a lot of the blame is being placed.

Well they are carrying out their orders without any protest. That makes them part of the problem.