Coronavirus - Doomsday

[TimHauck 1,869]

23 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

Okay it all makes sense now. You buy into that Steve Kirsch guy.  JFC. 

Couldn’t think of who said the vaccine has killed over a million.  Might’ve been him:

 

 

 

[Casual Observer 597]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

I'm going to stick up for @TimHauckhere:  I think he adds a lot to the debate including links, and he clearly takes the time to respond thoughtfully, although you don't like it.  Alternative viewpoints are good; it's why we think for instance Joe Rogan should have a voice and not get shot down by the thought police.  And he has admitted when he was proven wrong in the past, including booster requirements.

I think we all benefit by alternative data.  Otherwise it is just an echo chamber.  My 2 cents. 

 

I'm not surprised you'd stick up for Tim Hack.  However, Tim is not providing "alternative data" or views.  He attempts to reinforce the official government line and is anything but alternative.  He also attempts to disingenuously silence dissent in this very thread (true alternative data or views) often using posts from his fellow travelers on Twitter, which are later shown to be false.  He hasn't apologized for any of that  (Eric Topol comes to mind).  In fact, the constant dancing around is annoying, hence my prior post.

[vomit 502]

47 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

He posts links to data that he hasn't read that actually supports the opposite of his narrative.

See, making up more facts.  Everything I posted I read and it supports the argument that the vaccines were not 0% effective as you claimed

[TimHauck 1,869]

3 hours ago, BudBro said:

You seem to want to dispute numbers actually released by insurance companies which paid death claims.  Their data correlated deaths in younger people with vaccine mandate timing.  I don't own an insurance company and have no stake in the creation of their data.  I don't believe they claimed the deaths were related to the jabs or to one form of covid or another.  The data just showed the correlation between the deaths of younger people and the vax mandates.

Once again, I’m not disputing the numbers.  I’m just saying they’re largely because of Covid, which is the truth.

Here is the original article where the quotes were pulled from - https://www.thecentersquare.com/indiana/indiana-life-insurance-ceo-says-deaths-are-up-40-among-people-ages-18-64/article_71473b12-6b1e-11ec-8641-5b2c06725e2c.html

Yes, he says “most of the claims” aren’t Covid but that’s speaking in total, not of the increase.   While Covid isn’t the leading cause of death, it’s entirely incremental if the comparison is pre-pandemic and as a result is what drove the large % increases.  At one point he even implies that Covid deaths are undercounted.

It just so happened that “the vax mandates” happened at the same time as the Delta wave.  And in reality the vax mandates didn’t even result in any noticeable increase in vaccine doses given.  In fact Q3 2021 was basically the lowpoint in vaccine doses for all of 2021, so even that doesn’t add up - https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

 

Sorry “bud,” you’re wrong.  Take off the tinfoil hat.

[Sean Mooney 1,191]

4 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Kunty teachers are the reason kid’s still have to wear masks. Never forget how they behaved during all of this. They did not step up.  

When the pandemic started:

- I was putting in time 7 days a week working one on one with students on Zoom to make sure they were understanding everything we were doing.

- I was creating and producing videos to explain things.

- I had students who were working double and triple shifts because their employers were exploiting them...and thus I was doing sessions with the students at midnight and 1am on Zoom to make sure they could get things done.

- I had long conversations over e-mail and Remind with a student who lost both their parents to COVID the summer before their senior year of 20-21. And sat in on their meetings with the guidance counselors to help support them when they had no one else to turn to.

- I held daily lunch meetings over Zoom at the beginning of last year to talk with students and facilitate them having social interactions as best I could.

- I held nightly study sessions over Zoom to help students in April/May/June of 2020 to help students pass and do all they could.

And I am not alone in that as I know many teachers in my district, in my state, and across the country were doing the same thing trying to give students as much normal and support as possible....and what is said is "kunty teachers"......and being told I did not step up......you can ##### right off dude. 

2 hours ago, Baker Boy said:

https://healthmasters.com/consequences-wearing-mask-scientific-review#:~:text=Do the masks shed fibers or substances that,4 Decreased Blood Oxygen. ... 5 Conclusion.
 

links to studies that masks have more benefit than harm

That link does a decent enough job of compiling a bunch of quotes from sources but is not really doing its own research and provides speculation at times. 

[TimHauck 1,869]

3 hours ago, Casual Observer said:

I have no idea why you're still here.  Your posts have inspired nothing but negativity and most people think you're a liar.  Only a neurotic ethnonarcissist like you would continue posting here.  I became rather tired of this Talmudic causistry regarding Covid awhile ago.  Anyway, you've denied ADE from vaccines, which is a lie and a disqualifying lie at that.  

We are a few weeks removed from Wallensky admitting that US Covid stats were skewed by 75% because deaths attributable to Covid were really due to 3 or 4 comorbidities amongst those deceased.  Moreover, spikes in deaths correlated with mass vaccinations.  Show death stats for the US from 2019 to 2020 to 2021 (which are still being tabulated).  Why the increase in deaths in 2021 despite wider vaccination rates, strike that, injection rates, including boosters?  To preempt your anticipated bullshit argument, while we can't rely on the US gov't. stats regarding Covid deaths, the unvaccinated did not make up anywhere near the hospitalizations in general or ICU hospitalizations to bridge the gap in deaths.

ADE, lol.  The vaccine isn’t very effective against Omicron infection (it was effective against infection of earlier variants and is still effective against hospitalization & death from Omicron), but there’s no ADE.

Correct, 2021 numbers are still being finalized.  But it will likely be a minimal increase vs 2020 (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/health/2021-likely-to-eclipse-last-year-as-nations-deadliest-cdc-says), while 2020 was a double digit increase vs 2019, the largest year over year change in deaths since 1918.

The increase in both 2021 and 2020 vs 2019 is obviously Covid, anyone that doesn’t see that doesn’t have a brain.  If you’re asking why Covid deaths were higher in 2021 despite the vaccine, it’s because a significant portion occurred in January and February before many people had a chance to get vaccinated.  After the vaccines were widely available, Delta hit which was overall deadlier.   Nonetheless, it was (and is) still overwhelmingly the unvaccinated that are dying.  Just look at the deaths by age data I directed BudBro to look at - spikes in total deaths correlate exactly with Covid spikes, and while the older more vaccinated population did in fact see lower Covid deaths in 2021, the younger less vaccinated population saw higher Covid deaths in 2021 compared to 2020.

You should go back to predicting that death waves would eventually come down.  At least then you knew you’d be right eventually. 

 

 

[TimHauck 1,869]

50 minutes ago, Casual Observer said:

I'm not surprised you'd stick up for Tim Hack.  However, Tim is not providing "alternative data" or views.  He attempts to reinforce the official government line and is anything but alternative.  He also attempts to disingenuously silence dissent in this very thread (true alternative data or views) often using posts from his fellow travelers on Twitter, which are later shown to be false.  He hasn't apologized for any of that  (Eric Topol comes to mind).  In fact, the constant dancing around is annoying, hence my prior post.

Please post a link I posted that was wrong.  I’ll wait.

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

ADE, lol.  The vaccine isn’t very effective against Omicron infection (it was effective against infection of earlier variants and is still effective against hospitalization & death from Omicron), but there’s no ADE.

Correct, 2021 numbers are still being finalized.  But it will likely be a minimal increase vs 2020 (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/health/2021-likely-to-eclipse-last-year-as-nations-deadliest-cdc-says), while 2020 was a double digit increase vs 2019, the largest year over year change in deaths since 1918.

The increase in both 2021 and 2020 vs 2019 is obviously Covid, anyone that doesn’t see that doesn’t have a brain.  If you’re asking why Covid deaths were higher in 2021 despite the vaccine, it’s because a significant portion occurred in January and February before many people had a chance to get vaccinated.  After the vaccines were widely available, Delta hit which was overall deadlier.   Nonetheless, it was (and is) still overwhelmingly the unvaccinated that are dying.  Just look at the deaths by age data I directed BudBro to look at - spikes in total deaths correlate exactly with Covid spikes, and while the older more vaccinated population did in fact see lower Covid deaths in 2021, the younger less vaccinated population saw higher Covid deaths in 2021 compared to 2020.

You should go back to predicting that death waves would eventually come down.  At least then you knew you’d be right eventually. 

 

 

The chinese flu? Never got it and rarely wore masks and never stayed inside for even 1 whole day. Same for whateve the fock omicrap that people say is out there.

What a farce.

[TimHauck 1,869]

Just now, Utilit99 said:

The chinese flu? Never got it and rarely wore masks and never stayed inside for even 1 whole day. Same for whateve the fock omicrap that people say is out there.

What a farce.

Ah, the old “didn’t happen to me or my immediate circle so it must not be real” argument. 
 

And you guys make fun of the CDC for basing decisions on shoddy data…

[Hardcore troubadour 12,896]

12 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

When the pandemic started:

- I was putting in time 7 days a week working one on one with students on Zoom to make sure they were understanding everything we were doing.

- I was creating and producing videos to explain things.

- I had students who were working double and triple shifts because their employers were exploiting them...and thus I was doing sessions with the students at midnight and 1am on Zoom to make sure they could get things done.

- I had long conversations over e-mail and Remind with a student who lost both their parents to COVID the summer before their senior year of 20-21. And sat in on their meetings with the guidance counselors to help support them when they had no one else to turn to.

- I held daily lunch meetings over Zoom at the beginning of last year to talk with students and facilitate them having social interactions as best I could.

- I held nightly study sessions over Zoom to help students in April/May/June of 2020 to help students pass and do all they could.

And I am not alone in that as I know many teachers in my district, in my state, and across the country were doing the same thing trying to give students as much normal and support as possible....and what is said is "kunty teachers"......and being told I did not step up......you can ##### right off dude. 

That link does a decent enough job of compiling a bunch of quotes from sources but is not really doing its own research and provides speculation at times. 

I know a teacher personally that went to Florida and did his classes from there. He was pissed when he had to go back to the classroom. He was by far not the only one. I’ll go ahead and give you the botd that half of what you said there is true. It’s the best I can do. That being said, you were the outlier across the nation. That’s why people are fed up with the group as a whole. Out of control, no accountability and a superiority complex. I don’t get the last one. No one thinks that there’s anything superior about the most whiney profession in the country. 

[TimHauck 1,869]

3 hours ago, Baker Boy said:

https://healthmasters.com/consequences-wearing-mask-scientific-review#:~:text=Do the masks shed fibers or substances that,4 Decreased Blood Oxygen. ... 5 Conclusion.
 

links to studies that masks have more benefit than harm

My post from December 2020 below, still holds up I think.  Note I’ve never said masks are awesome, just that I think they help.  I’m sure someone will comment that 1 of the 6 links was a study done on hamsters which was basically the only comeback people could come up with then.  Honestly if anything that one has aged well since we now know animals can get Covid, and heck it’s also the closest to what RaiderHaterRevenge keeps whining about in regards to “putting them in a room with Covid.”
 

On 12/15/2020 at 11:06 AM, TimHauck said:

So where are all these "studies" saying mask mandates actually result in increased infection??   Just tried to search and not finding any.    Do I need to go to "thedonald.com" to find them?

Closest I can find is this, based on a whole 4 participants, which was retracted - https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342

Are you just looking at cases from early on (despite probably at the same time complaining about false positives), and saying that must mean that it was increased because of masks?   Again, no one is saying masks will all the sudden stop infection, and even if we can agree that they "help," it's not going to be instantaneous (especially when you factor incubation period).    So if a place implements a mask mandate, if cases increase for the next 2 weeks, that doesn't mean that MASKS RESULTED IN INCREASED INFECTIONS!

Here's what I did find though:

Here's an interesting study which IMO actually also does a good job summarizing some of the prior studies and opinions, which studied areas with mask mandates vs. those without them, and found "The study provides evidence that US states mandating the use of face masks in public had a greater decline in daily COVID-19 growth rates after issuing these mandates compared with states that did not issue mandates" - https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818#:~:text=Between April 8 and May 15%2C governors of fifteen states,retail stores) where maintaining six

Here's another  that says "Mask mandates are associated with a 25 to 46 per cent average reduction in weekly COVID-19 cases across Canada" - https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201007085638.htm

And another, "after implementation of mask mandates in 24 Kansas counties, the increasing trend in COVID-19 incidence reversed" - https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e2.htm

Another "duration of mask-wearing by the public was negatively associated with mortality" - https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.22.20109231v5

Another study finds masks work with hamsters - https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/71/16/2139/5848814

CDC summary of a few different real world situations finds "Experimental and epidemiological data support community masking to reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2" - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

 

OK, I did my own research.  I think now I'm actually more convinced they do work.  Thanks cdub!

 

[TimHauck 1,869]

13 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I know a teacher personally that went to Florida and did his classes from there. He was pissed when he had to go back to the classroom. He was by far not the only one. I’ll go ahead and give you the botd that half of what you said there is true. It’s the best I can do. That being said, you were the outlier across the nation. That’s why people are fed up with the group as a whole. Out of control, no accountability and a superiority complex. I don’t get the last one. No one thinks that there’s anything superior about the most whiney profession in the country. 

Guarantee you 99% of teachers hated teaching virtually 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,896]

2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Guarantee you 99% of teachers hated teaching virtually 

Funny I saw various teachers unions demanding it. 99? Not even close. I’ll say some. 

[Sean Mooney 1,191]

24 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I know a teacher personally that went to Florida and did his classes from there. He was pissed when he had to go back to the classroom. He was by far not the only one. I’ll go ahead and give you the botd that half of what you said there is true. It’s the best I can do. That being said, you were the outlier across the nation. That’s why people are fed up with the group as a whole. Out of control, no accountability and a superiority complex. I don’t get the last one. No one thinks that there’s anything superior about the most whiney profession in the country. 

The teacher that did that sucked....and probably sucks as a teacher...and sucked before COVID. Yes there are bad teachers out there. Of course there are. 

But the problem is you are painting with a wide brush and lumping together all the teachers and that is not the way to go here. 

And TimHauck is right...the number is closer to 99%. It might be 90%...but yes most teachers know and recognize that virtual does not benefit a majority of the kids out there. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

25 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Ah, the old “didn’t happen to me or my immediate circle so it must not be real” argument. 
 

And you guys make fun of the CDC for basing decisions on shoddy data…

I didn't say it isn't real, I'm saying it was made into something that it is not. Focking "died with covid" bullshlt. Yeah, they had a heart attack and it was the cold that killed them

Dumb.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,896]

8 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

The teacher that did that sucked....and probably sucks as a teacher...and sucked before COVID. Yes there are bad teachers out there. Of course there are. 

But the problem is you are painting with a wide brush and lumping together all the teachers and that is not the way to go here. 

And TimHauck is right...the number is closer to 99%. It might be 90%...but yes most teachers know and recognize that virtual does not benefit a majority of the kids out there. 

Your unions, that represent you, feel different. Tell them to represent what you want, not what they want. They work for you. 

[Brad GLuckman 518]

12 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

The teacher that did that sucked....and probably sucks as a teacher...and sucked before COVID. Yes there are bad teachers out there. Of course there are. 

But the problem is you are painting with a wide brush and lumping together all the teachers and that is not the way to go here. 

And TimHauck is right...the number is closer to 99%. It might be 90%...but yes most teachers know and recognize that virtual does not benefit a majority of the kids out there. 

I would say the teachers union represents the position of the teachers. They have been trying to keep schools closed despite even the most liberal mayors fighting them.

90%? Stop it.

[TimHauck 1,869]

18 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Funny I saw various teachers unions demanding it. 99? Not even close. I’ll say some. 

Hating teaching virtually and not wanting to be in person for fear of getting Covid (before vaccines were available) are not mutually exclusive.

[Sean Mooney 1,191]

17 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Your unions, that represent you, feel different. Tell them to represent what you want, not what they want. They work for you. 

Which unions? The ones I belong too show much more favorable ratings towards being in person. And the unions I'm in have said they want to be in person but in as safe a manner as possible....and even that latter part has changed quite a bit as the reality of Omnicron is becoming more evident. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,896]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

Hating teaching virtually and not wanting to be in person for fear of getting Covid (before vaccines were available) are not mutually exclusive.

I’ll even give in on that, in the beginning.  I actually did. Then as time went on and teachers unions were still trying to keep them closed, despite the schools in some areas being open with no danger presented, they lost me. My kids have been wearing masks for almost two years now. My daughter has to wear one at basketball. This is because of the teachers union. Enough. If you’re still concerned about catching Covid then stay home. Why does everyone else have to go to work and subject themselves to catching it? The kid at the grocery store is still doing his job. If the teachers want to mask up, then they should. Just like that kid at the grocery store. Our kids have been through enough at this point. Next thing you’ll be telling me is that teachers don’t want the kids masked either. 

[Brad GLuckman 518]

7 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Hating teaching virtually and not wanting to be in person for fear of getting Covid (before vaccines were available) are not mutually exclusive.

This happened after vaccines were widely available too. These last 2 years have been a vacation for them.

[shorepatrol 1,740]

With the amount of money and control being generated with covid, the data will support the money and control until folks wake up. We should be at war with China. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,896]

3 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Which unions? The ones I belong too show much more favorable ratings towards being in person. And the unions I'm in have said they want to be in person but in as safe a manner as possible

What’s “as possible” ? Your national union president , the one with the power and influence, says she wants zero transmission in schools. So I guess nothing will be changing then, because that’s impossible. 

[TimHauck 1,869]

2 minutes ago, Brad GLuckman said:

This happened after vaccines were widely available too. These last 2 years have been a vacation for them.

Pretty sure less than 1% of US schools were virtual in 2021-2022.

[TimHauck 1,869]

4 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I’ll even give in on that, in the beginning.  I actually did. Then as time went on and teachers unions were still trying to keep them closed, despite the schools in some areas being open with no danger presented, they lost me. My kids have been wearing masks for almost two years now. My daughter has to wear one at basketball. This is because of the teachers union. Enough. If you’re still concerned about catching Covid then stay home. Why does everyone else have to go to work and subject themselves to catching it? The kid at the grocery store is still doing his job. If the teachers want to mask up, then they should. Just like that kid at the grocery store. Our kids have been through enough at this point. Next thing you’ll be telling me is that teachers don’t want the kids masked either. 

Ah, the ole mask diversion tactic.  I wasn’t talking about masks, I was talking about virtual learning.

[Sean Mooney 1,191]

16 minutes ago, Brad GLuckman said:

I would say the teachers union represents the position of the teachers. They have been trying to keep schools closed despite even the most liberal mayors fighting them.

90%? Stop it.

Where are you seeing that? Prove it.

[KSB2424 3,086]

I don't care the reason.  Stop masking kids for the love of the baby Jesus.  As of today, February 9th any person still yelling to mask kids in schools is a phycopath in my mind.  

[Brad GLuckman 518]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

Where are you seeing that? Prove it.

Chicago just opened back up like two weeks ago because the teachers needed a few days off

[Sean Mooney 1,191]

6 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I’ll even give in on that, in the beginning.  I actually did. Then as time went on and teachers unions were still trying to keep them closed, despite the schools in some areas being open with no danger presented, they lost me. My kids have been wearing masks for almost two years now. My daughter has to wear one at basketball. This is because of the teachers union. Enough. If you’re still concerned about catching Covid then stay home. Why does everyone else have to go to work and subject themselves to catching it? The kid at the grocery store is still doing his job. If the teachers want to mask up, then they should. Just like that kid at the grocery store. Our kids have been through enough at this point. Next thing you’ll be telling me is that teachers don’t want the kids masked either. 

It's not because of the teacher's union. It's the school district and school board putting that policy forward because people are litigious and schools are trying to protect themselves from that and don't want to give up federal and state funding in places because giving them up would cause taxes to raise. 

[Sean Mooney 1,191]

6 minutes ago, Brad GLuckman said:

Chicago just opened back up like two weeks ago because the teachers needed a few days off

That doesn't draw the connection you want it too

[KSB2424 3,086]

As long as I live I will never forget last year when my middle school kid was forced to wear a mask while outdoors playing a middle school soccer game in 90 degree heat.  He threw up after one game from being hot and not breathing.  Did I mention outdoors, and kids and running in the heat?  

People have lost their mind over masks and all things Covid.  We will look back and say WTF?!?!?

[Brad GLuckman 518]

15 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Pretty sure less than 1% of US schools were virtual in 2021-2022.

We are discussing what teachers want, not the results. Unions continue to fight, even in 2022, to shut down schools. The NYT just ran an article about how the teachers union is hurting Democrats.

[Utilit99 4,099]

Grade school and high school teachers are literally baby sitters who think they are more than that. 

 

[Fireballer 2,423]

9 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

It's not because of the teacher's union. 

You're right.  I guess Lewinsky was forced to backtrack on her own accord when she got her hand smack when talking about re-opening schools.  Randi pulled no strings with the CDC.  

And what's the point of locals having votes of no confidence in schools boards who want to drop masks?

[Brad GLuckman 518]

7 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

That doesn't draw the connection you want it too

We are arguing a made up number of 90% here. 

The actions of the teachers union, nationwide, points to teachers not wanting to teach in person. You think this would even be a discussion if 90% of teachers were just dying to get back to the classroom in Chicago? 

[Fireballer 2,423]

2 minutes ago, Brad GLuckman said:

We are arguing a made up number of 90% here. 

The actions of the teachers union, nationwide, points to teachers not wanting to teach in person. You think this would even be a discussion if 90% of teachers were just dying to get back to the classroom in Chicago? 

Flint MI is still closed.

[TimHauck 1,869]

7 minutes ago, Brad GLuckman said:

We are discussing what teachers want, not the results. Unions continue to fight, even in 2022, to shut down schools. The NYT just ran an article about how the teachers union is hurting Democrats.

How many unions are doing that in 2022?

[Brad GLuckman 518]

7 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

As long as I live I will never forget last year when my middle school kid was forced to wear a mask while outdoors playing a middle school soccer in 90 degree heat.  He threw up after one game from being hot and not breathing.  Did I mention outdoors, and kids and running in the heat?  

People have lost their mind over masks and all things Covid.  We will look back and say WTF?!?!?

My friends stepdaughter was In high school. They had mask breaks during lacrosse games where they would all spread out, take their masks off, and breathe. Ridiculous

[Brad GLuckman 518]

Just now, TimHauck said:

How many unions are doing that in 2022?

The ones that can get away with it

[Hardcore troubadour 12,896]

23 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Ah, the ole mask diversion tactic.  I wasn’t talking about masks, I was talking about virtual learning.

So was I in the first part. There was no “diversion”. The teachers unions in some areas , like our most populated cities, were still trying to remain closed well after others had fully opened. Read what’s there, not what you want to be there.