Coronavirus - Doomsday

[Hardcore troubadour 15,517]

16 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

It's not because of the teacher's union. It's the school district and school board putting that policy forward because people are litigious and schools are trying to protect themselves from that and don't want to give up federal and state funding in places because giving them up would cause taxes to raise. 

The head of your union isn’t saying anything like that. She wants zero transmission and claims  it’s all about safety. I can only go on what the one with the power says. 

[TimHauck 2,929]

4 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Flint MI is still closed.

*following winter break.  They were open prior to that.

Schools going virtual was different than earlier in the pandemic.  It was more due to the fact that because so many students and teachers had Covid all at once, that in person school was not productive.

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

13 minutes ago, Brad GLuckman said:

We are discussing what teachers want, not the results. Unions continue to fight, even in 2022, to shut down schools. The NYT just ran an article about how the teachers union is hurting Democrats.

Kicker then is people saying it's teacher's unions driving this are wrong. 

Unions- by and large- are not fighting to shut down schools and make them virtual

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The head of your union isn’t saying anything like that. She wants zero transmission and claims  it’s all about safety. I can only go on what the one with the power says. 

There are 3 different teacher's unions I pay into....a county one, a state one, and a national one....The national one has nothing to do with what my county and state does per se. And numbers I am seeing and participating in go wildly against what you are saying. 

[Fireballer 2,644]

2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

*following winter break.  They were open prior to that.

Schools going virtual was different than earlier in the pandemic.  It was more due to the fact that because so many students and teachers had Covid all at once, that in person school was not productive.

What does closed "indefinitely" say about their desire to open?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,517]

1 minute ago, Sean Mooney said:

There are 3 different teacher's unions I pay into....a county one, a state one, and a national one....The national one has nothing to do with what my county and state does per se. And numbers I am seeing and participating in go wildly against what you are saying. 

The national is the one that holds the most influence on all of us. Maybe your area is a holdout, and that’s great, good for you and them.  But it’s a big country, and she holds the power over a lot of it. 

[Brad GLuckman 519]

2 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Kicker then is people saying it's teacher's unions driving this are wrong. 

Unions- by and large- are not fighting to shut down schools and make them virtual

Because they can't get away with it anymore. You dont think theyd be pushing this everywhere, just like in Chicago, if they could?

People are fed up. I was a guy that argued for masks and remote learning, on this very forum, 2 years ago. The fact that we are even having this conversation now, with vaccines available for a year and death rates for kids at like a tenth of a percent, is insanity.

 

[Horseman 2,493]

9 hours ago, TheNewGirl said:

CA is getting ready to host the Eminem, Dre, Snoop concert in the middle of the biggest football game of the year. 

CA needs to end the state of emergency and masking crap. 

CA rolling back the mask mandates one week before the SB and one week after Newsom and friends caught on camera not following the rules. 

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The national is the one that holds the most influence on all of us. Maybe your area is a holdout, and that’s great, good for you and them.  But it’s a big country, and she holds the power over a lot of it. 

All the national does is can make recommendations and try to help govern large scale policy. They are not overrunning COVID policy like you think they are. And even still the state and local unions shave the ability to advocate what they want to advocate for....and really it is mostly the local ones who do the advocating for day-to-day operations in a school.  And even that is not a guarantee of any kind. I would say I wish we as a union had the power you think we do but we don't and honestly I don't want us to be dominating the discussion like that anyway

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

1 minute ago, Brad GLuckman said:

Because they can't get away with it anymore. You dont think theyd be pushing this everywhere, just like in Chicago, if they could?

People are fed up. I was a guy that argued for masks and remote learning, on this very forum, 2 years ago. The fact that we are even having this conversation now, with vaccines available for a year and death rates for kids at like a tenth of a percent, is insanity.

 

Teachers are not arguing for remote learning. They aren't necessarily asking for masks in all cases either. 

You are taking one example and saying it is indicative of everyone....It isn't

[Fireballer 2,644]

3 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

All the national does is can make recommendations and try to help govern large scale policy. They are not overrunning COVID policy like you think they are. And even still the state and local unions shave the ability to advocate what they want to advocate for....and really it is mostly the local ones who do the advocating for day-to-day operations in a school.  And even that is not a guarantee of any kind. I would say I wish we as a union had the power you think we do but we don't and honestly I don't want us to be dominating the discussion like that anyway

Dude.  The AFT literally strong-armed the CDC.  And I'm sure Randi had her hands deep in the NSBA/Justice Dept fiasco.  

[shorepatrol 1,871]

27 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

As long as I live I will never forget last year when my middle school kid was forced to wear a mask while outdoors playing a middle school soccer game in 90 degree heat.  He threw up after one game from being hot and not breathing.  Did I mention outdoors, and kids and running in the heat?  

People have lost their mind over masks and all things Covid.  We will look back and say WTF?!?!?

You let your kid participate in that. JFC my man. Your kid should punch you right the d!ck. 

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

3 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Dude.  The AFT literally strong-armed the CDC.  And I'm sure Randi had her hands deep in the NSBA/Justice Dept fiasco.  

So one teacher's union said it (and not the biggest one) so everyone agrees with it? 

What you are reporting on was never really proven as a direct link outside of e-mails were exchanged....and the second half is just you speculating. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,517]

12 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

All the national does is can make recommendations and try to help govern large scale policy. They are not overrunning COVID policy like you think they are. And even still the state and local unions shave the ability to advocate what they want to advocate for....and really it is mostly the local ones who do the advocating for day-to-day operations in a school.  And even that is not a guarantee of any kind. I would say I wish we as a union had the power you think we do but we don't and honestly I don't want us to be dominating the discussion like that anyway

The CDC sought her input and thanked her for it. They met with her, there are readily available communications between them. Do you think the national teachers union makes donations to politicians so they won’t have influence? Saying they don’t have influence is ridiculous. 

[Baker Boy 1,704]

1 hour ago, TimHauck said:

My post from December 2020 below, still holds up I think.  Note I’ve never said masks are awesome, just that I think they help.  I’m sure someone will comment that 1 of the 6 links was a study done on hamsters which was basically the only comeback people could come up with then.  Honestly if anything that one has aged well since we now know animals can get Covid, and heck it’s also the closest to what RaiderHaterRevenge keeps whining about in regards to “putting them in a room with Covid.”
 

 

I am not talking about harm from infection I’m talking about mental, emotional, and physical harm.

[KSB2424 3,148]

22 minutes ago, shorepatrol said:

You let your kid participate in that. JFC my man. Your kid should punch you right the d!ck. 

Dear @shorepatrol 

My oldest son was run over by a car when he was 5 years old. It was no fault of his own, he was parked on his bike on the curb when a very old man who shouldn't have been driving at all (and was charged as such) ran him over and drug him under his Lexus SUV 40 feet.  Old man was so out of it he didn't even stop until my wife walking behind ran up and was beating on the drivers side window.  He suffered horrible injuries to his leg, it was grinded down to the bone and at the time we thought he'd lose one of them.  Fast forward 7 years and that same boy make the middle school soccer team as a sixth grader, not many sixth graders make the team.  Not sure your schools but middle school is 6 thru 8th grade here.  When he saw he made the team he was as happy as I've ever seen my son; running around the house yelling "Lets Go!".

So excuse me if I allowed him to play despite of some stupid mask mandate.  

That's my kind way of saying for you to Eat a Diick.  

[Brad GLuckman 519]

18 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Teachers are not arguing for remote learning. They aren't necessarily asking for masks in all cases either. 

You are taking one example and saying it is indicative of everyone....It isn't

Chicago is just the most egregious example. And at this point, just one is too many. 

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2022-01-03/returning-students-greeted-with-closing-schools

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

7 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The CDC sought her input and thanked her for it. They met with her, there are readily available communications between them. Do you think the national teachers union makes donations to politicians so they won’t have influence? Saying they don’t have influence is ridiculous. 

They talked to lots of people. They didn't just take what the AFT said as gospel. And all unions and lobbyist groups pay money to politicians to garner influence. That isn't a teacher problem. 

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

3 minutes ago, Brad GLuckman said:

Chicago is just the most egregious example. And at this point, just one is too many. 

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2022-01-03/returning-students-greeted-with-closing-schools

Schools went virtual coming back from break because there were high COVID numbers and teacher and staffing shortages. Hell even without COVID issues my school is running with staffing shortages most days. 

4 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Dear @shorepatrol 

My oldest son was run over by a car when he was 5 years old. It was no fault of his own, he was parked on his bike on the curb when a very old man who shouldn't have been driving at all (and was charged as such) ran him over and drug him under his Lexus SUV 40 feet.  Old man was so out of it he didn't even stop until my wife walking behind ran up and was beating on the drivers side window.  He suffered horrible injuries to his leg, it was grinded down to the bone and at the time we thought he'd lose one of them.  Fast forward 7 years and that same boy make the middle school soccer team as a sixth grader, not many sixth graders make the team.  Not sure your schools but middle school is 6 thru 8th grade here.  When he saw he made the team he was as happy as I've ever seen my son: running around the house yelling "Lets Go!".

So excuse me if I allowed him to play despite of some stupid mask mandate.  

That's my kind way of saying for you to Eat a Diick.  

Your kid is awesome. Sorry he had to play his 6th grade year under a mask mandate but none of that changes his accomplishment. I share you telling shorepatrol to eat a diick. Too many people like him allow their personal feelings to overrun good taste. 

[TimHauck 2,929]

10 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

I am not talking about harm from infection I’m talking about mental, emotional, and physical harm.

Silly me, I was thinking dying of Covid qualified as physical harm.

[Fireballer 2,644]

9 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

They talked to lots of people. They didn't just take what the AFT said as gospel. And all unions and lobbyist groups pay money to politicians to garner influence. That isn't a teacher problem. 

So who do you think smacked walenskys hand and made her claim her words as personal opinion when she spoke on re-opening schools?  Couldn't have been influence from a teachers union...

[shorepatrol 1,871]

2 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Dear @shorepatrol 

My oldest son was run over by a car when he was 5 years old. It was no fault of his own, he was parked on his bike on the curb when a very old man who shouldn't have been driving at all (and was charged as such) ran him over and drug him under his Lexus SUV 40 feet.  Old man was so out of it he didn't even stop until my wife walking behind ran up and was beating on the drivers side window.  He suffered horrible injuries to his leg, it was grinded down to the bone and at the time we thought he'd lose one of them.  Fast forward 7 years and that same boy make the middle school soccer team as a sixth grader, not many sixth graders make the team.  Not sure your schools but middle school is 6 thru 8th grade here.  When he saw he made the team he was as happy as I've ever seen my son: running around the house yelling "Lets Go!".

So excuse me if I allowed him to play despite of some stupid mask mandate.  

That's my kind way of saying for you to Eat a Diick.  

Maybe lead with that for some context? Let's focking go KSB's son. Go get it kid 

[Brad GLuckman 519]

10 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

They talked to lots of people. They didn't just take what the AFT said as gospel. And all unions and lobbyist groups pay money to politicians to garner influence. That isn't a teacher problem. 

No, not a problem at all if you're a teacher. Now why would Biden, in this one instance, not side with the CDC?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/school-reopening-debate-tests-bidens-ties-with-teachers-unions

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,517]

1 minute ago, Sean Mooney said:

They talked to lots of people. They didn't just take what the AFT said as gospel. And all unions and lobbyist groups pay money to politicians to garner influence. That isn't a teacher problem. 

It is when it comes to this specific issue. If teachers called for the end of mask mandates in school they would be gone. They are calling for the opposite, so they can own it. We live in a time when it is being said that parents shouldn’t have a say in their kids education or well being at school. You did it earlier when you dismissed that woman’s concerns who spoke at the school board meeting about masks. I’ll tell you something right now that is 100 pct true: Shitty, uninvolved parents make for shitty schools. Caring, involved parents make for good schools. You can’t have shitty, uninvolved parents and a good school. So pardon us for knowing our part in making for a good school. Just because you got it in your head you’re smarter than all of us, doesn’t mean we GAF what you or those that think like you think. These are our kids, not yours. And many of us, the good ones, are t going to pipe down because you think you know better. You get my kids for a few months. I get them forever. 

[KSB2424 3,148]

1 minute ago, shorepatrol said:

Maybe lead with that for some context? Let's focking go KSB's son. Go get it kid 

Great reply btw, I do appreciate it.  Have not talked about that all that much here.   

[shorepatrol 1,871]

2 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Great reply btw, I do appreciate it.  Have not talked about that all that much here.   

[KSB2424 3,148]

I just hate all the nonsense.  I'll name it here:

Nonsense #1:   Mask mandates.  Cloth ones do nothing and the best ones do something but is it really not enough to mandating them?

2.  The "vaccine" works at reducing hospitalization and death (great), but it's not a true vaccine, more of a flu shot.  Which is good, but not what was advertised.

3.  There should NEVER be one voice in a pandemic from a government as large as the United States of America. How did Dr. Fauci become the end  all be all of Science?  See no. 4.

4.  Covid, the Genesis.  Everyone knows it came from a Chinese Lab.   NONSENSE.   

5. theremaybemore

 

[Drizzay 723]

10 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

I just hate all the nonsense.  I'll name it here:

Nonsense #1:   Mask mandates.  Cloth ones do nothing and the best ones do something but is it really enough to mandating them?

2.  The "vaccine" works at reducing hospitalization and death (great), but it's not a true vaccine, more of a flu shot.  Which is good, but not what was advertised.

3.  There should NEVER be one voice in a pandemic from a government as large as the United States of America. How did Dr. Fauci become the end  all be all of Science?  See no. 4.

4.  Covid, the Genesis.  Everyone knows it came from a Chinese Lab.   NONSENSE.   

5. theremaybemore

 

Pretty much this.  I will add:

It's always going to be around 

There will always be new variants

The fatties and old people should be sheltered

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

36 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

So who do you think smacked walenskys hand and made her claim her words as personal opinion when she spoke on re-opening schools?  Couldn't have been influence from a teachers union...

And the person had to absolutely listen and had no agency on their own? Do you apply the same logic when other unions and lobbyists push for policy?

31 minutes ago, Brad GLuckman said:

No, not a problem at all if you're a teacher. Now why would Biden, in this one instance, not side with the CDC?

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/education/school-reopening-debate-tests-bidens-ties-with-teachers-unions

 

Again- all unions and lobbyists push for what they want. They don't always get it.

30 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

It is when it comes to this specific issue. If teachers called for the end of mask mandates in school they would be gone. They are calling for the opposite, so they can own it. We live in a time when it is being said that parents shouldn’t have a say in their kids education or well being at school. You did it earlier when you dismissed that woman’s concerns who spoke at the school board meeting about masks. I’ll tell you something right now that is 100 pct true: Shitty, uninvolved parents make for shitty schools. Caring, involved parents make for good schools. You can’t have shitty, uninvolved parents and a good school. So pardon us for knowing our part in making for a good school. Just because you got it in your head you’re smarter than all of us, doesn’t mean we GAF what you or those that think like you think. These are our kids, not yours. And many of us, the good ones, are t going to pipe down because you think you know better. You get my kids for a few months. I get them forever. 

I dismissed her concerns because she is just participating in the same political theater she was decrying. Most of the parents in this stuff come off as super hypocritical- on both sides of the issues.

I'll tell you something right now that is 100 pct true: people screaming about masks at school boards, spouting false stats, and mocking  the concept of people wanting to keep masks are not necessarily caring involved parents. They are the parents who call teachers and because "why did you fail my kid when they turned their paper in 3 weeks late." "Why do you hate my kid." and "how dare you ask my kid to follow a rule in the school." They are the ones who enable bad behavior and you are seeing that in how they conduct themselves in these school board meetings. That does not mean the other side does not have problems when it comes to this stuff as well. And yes- uninvolved parents suck.

Again- I don't think I'm smarter than everyone....but I am smarter than some people. And yeah you get your kids forever and I get them for a few months (and the rest of your whole speech which is ripped right from the playbook the people screaming at these school board meetings operate from- is there a script to follow?) but my job is to provide them with knowledge and enrichment opportunities surrounding my English class. I'm trying to teach 12th grade students how to read and write for college or whatever trade they are going into once they leave high school. You want to be a caring, involved parent creating a good school. Tell your student to show up on time, listen to the teacher and stand up for themselves in legitimate situations, don't just take their word for everything, tell them to do their work, and keep their head down to get the hell outta school once they reach the end of 12th. 

[shorepatrol 1,871]

22 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

I just hate all the nonsense.  I'll name it here:

Nonsense #1:   Mask mandates.  Cloth ones do nothing and the best ones do something but is it really enough to mandating them?

2.  The "vaccine" works at reducing hospitalization and death (great), but it's not a true vaccine, more of a flu shot.  Which is good, but not what was advertised.

3.  There should NEVER be one voice in a pandemic from a government as large as the United States of America. How did Dr. Fauci become the end  all be all of Science?  See no. 4.

4.  Covid, the Genesis.  Everyone knows it came from a Chinese Lab.   NONSENSE.   

5. theremaybemore

 

We should be at WAR with China. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,364]

2 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

I just hate all the nonsense.  I'll name it here:

Nonsense #1:   Mask mandates.  Cloth ones do nothing and the best ones do something but is it really not enough to mandating them?

2.  The "vaccine" works at reducing hospitalization and death (great), but it's not a true vaccine, more of a flu shot.  Which is good, but not what was advertised.

3.  There should NEVER be one voice in a pandemic from a government as large as the United States of America. How did Dr. Fauci become the end  all be all of Science?  See no. 4.

4.  Covid, the Genesis.  Everyone knows it came from a Chinese Lab.   NONSENSE.   

5. theremaybemore

 

all facts

 

[Brad GLuckman 519]

9 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

Again- all unions and lobbyists push for what they want. They don't always get it.

Thats exactly the point I've already made. If the teachers union could get away with it, kids all over the country would be remote. 

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

43 minutes ago, Brad GLuckman said:

Thats exactly the point I've already made. If the teachers union could get away with it, kids all over the country would be remote. 

TEACHERS (on the whole)

ARE

NOT

ASKING 

FOR

REMOTE

LEARNING

[vomit 502]

6 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

TEACHERS (on the whole)

ARE

NOT

ASKING 

FOR

REMOTE

LEARNING

I have to agree with this based on personal experience, but it depends on the teacher.

From what I've seen with my kids and my friends kids, the good teachers who care about their students want to be in the classroom.

The sh!tty teachers who barely teach anyway, want to be remote.

So it all depends on the school district you live in.

[vomit 502]

10 hours ago, shorepatrol said:

We should be at WAR with China. 

Are you volunteering?  Thank you for your service.

[vomit 502]

10 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

I just hate all the nonsense.  I'll name it here:

Nonsense #1:   Mask mandates.  Cloth ones do nothing and the best ones do something but is it really not enough to mandating them?

2.  The "vaccine" works at reducing hospitalization and death (great), but it's not a true vaccine, more of a flu shot.  Which is good, but not what was advertised.

3.  There should NEVER be one voice in a pandemic from a government as large as the United States of America. How did Dr. Fauci become the end  all be all of Science?  See no. 4.

4.  Covid, the Genesis.  Everyone knows it came from a Chinese Lab.   NONSENSE.   

5. theremaybemore

 

At the heart of your conversation I agree with you, we should go the way of Denmark or Sweden and just be done with all mandates.

But for accuracy, the covid vaccine is a true vaccine, so is the flu shot.  When you say stuff like this it detracts from the rest of your argument.  Simply put, the vaccine has been rendered ineffective against the spread of covid, and is on par with the the flu shot in purpose.

[listen2me 23 1,874]

A school my friend works at had a rare snow day a while back.  I said so like a real snow day no school? Since you guys go in and out of remote learning all the time and seemingly are pros at it then why wouldn't a snow day just be a remote learning day?  

He isn't a teacher he is a family support counselor.  But a few days he had to fill in as a sub for lack of teachers.  

This has all been a joke.  Everyone has got covid in the school it seems.  No one has died.  No one has been in the hospital on deaths door.  Lets just stop.  

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

24 minutes ago, vomit said:

I have to agree with this based on personal experience, but it depends on the teacher.

From what I've seen with my kids and my friends kids, the good teachers who care about their students want to be in the classroom.

The sh!tty teachers who barely teach anyway, want to be remote.

So it all depends on the school district you live in.

Yeah there are some teachers who like gaming the system...they existed before COVID too and people gaming the system exists in every single job everywhere. But to pretend- as some are- that teachers are beating down the union doors and the unions are pushing for virtual learning for students is silly and just inaccurate.

6 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

A school my friend works at had a rare snow day a while back.  I said so like a real snow day no school? Since you guys go in and out of remote learning all the time and seemingly are pros at it then why wouldn't a snow day just be a remote learning day?  

He isn't a teacher he is a family support counselor.  But a few days he had to fill in as a sub for lack of teachers.  

This has all been a joke.  Everyone has got covid in the school it seems.  No one has died.  No one has been in the hospital on deaths door.  Lets just stop.  

Schools in some places will use FID days on snow which is basically asynchronous work for students. Our school tried to do that and parents freaked out because "Let kids be kids and have a snow day."

You really can't win.

[Hawkeye21 2,401]

13 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

When the pandemic started:

- I was putting in time 7 days a week working one on one with students on Zoom to make sure they were understanding everything we were doing.

- I was creating and producing videos to explain things.

- I had students who were working double and triple shifts because their employers were exploiting them...and thus I was doing sessions with the students at midnight and 1am on Zoom to make sure they could get things done.

- I had long conversations over e-mail and Remind with a student who lost both their parents to COVID the summer before their senior year of 20-21. And sat in on their meetings with the guidance counselors to help support them when they had no one else to turn to.

- I held daily lunch meetings over Zoom at the beginning of last year to talk with students and facilitate them having social interactions as best I could.

- I held nightly study sessions over Zoom to help students in April/May/June of 2020 to help students pass and do all they could.

And I am not alone in that as I know many teachers in my district, in my state, and across the country were doing the same thing trying to give students as much normal and support as possible....and what is said is "kunty teachers"......and being told I did not step up......you can ##### right off dude. 

That link does a decent enough job of compiling a bunch of quotes from sources but is not really doing its own research and provides speculation at times. 

There are plenty of teachers that didn't do squat with online teaching as well.  Just like all professions, some people are amazing and some are terrible.  I've seen both in our schools.  The problem is that some people will only focus on one group and deny that the other exists.

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

7 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

There are plenty of teachers that didn't do squat with online teaching as well.  Just like all professions, some people are amazing and some are terrible.  I've seen both in our schools.  The problem is that some people will only focus on one group and deny that the other exists.

Which is why I said painting with such a wide brush as HT was doing....and calling teachers ###### and saying they didn't step up is dumb