What do you think it would be like if we didnt act on this?

[supermike80 2,156]

It's an interesting question.  Clearly more infected.  But would business/industry/charity etc step up?  Would there be a covid-aid?  Would the world economy be able to function?  

[tanatastic 2,062]

We’d have all gotten it and recovered by now and been back to normal. Probably not but I’d like to think so. It would be a massive show.

[porkbutt 897]

it'd be like your mom. everyone would have it.

[dain11279 985]

 

[Hawkeye21 2,458]

There would be a lot more dead people.  Hospitals would still be overwhelmed.  Everyone that feels good would continue on with life as normal.

[supermike80 2,156]

3 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

There would be a lot more dead people.  Hospitals would still be overwhelmed.  Everyone that feels good would continue on with life as normal.

But would they?  This has gotten so much coverage that it seems that many with the sniffles are running out to the ER.  If this were treated like the flu, would many people just miss work and take care of it at home like so many?  Yeah I know if you get it serious then you should be in the hospital, but I am certain there are many many many that are rushing to the er out of nothing but fear.

[Hawkeye21 2,458]

1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

But would they?  This has gotten so much coverage that it seems that many with the sniffles are running out to the ER.  If this were treated like the flu, would many people just miss work and take care of it at home like so many?  Yeah I know if you get it serious then you should be in the hospital, but I am certain there are many many many that are rushing to the er out of nothing but fear.

Are people able to run to the ER right now for small symptoms now?  I know in Iowa they are not taking in anyone with minor issues.  

[Baker Boy 1,711]

In the end we would have a stronger healthier society.

[supermike80 2,156]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Are people able to run to the ER right now for small symptoms now?  I know in Iowa they are not taking in anyone with minor issues.  

Um yes..people run to the ER with a fokking ear ache

[Hawkeye21 2,458]

3 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Um yes..people run to the ER with a fokking ear ache

Are they taking those people in or are they turning them away?

[supermike80 2,156]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Are they taking those people in or are they turning them away?

You cant turn someone away.

I mean I'm sure you can eventually.  But you gotta triage them right?

Just kinda wondering out loud.  

[Hawkeye21 2,458]

1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

You cant turn someone away.

I mean I'm sure you can eventually.  But you gotta triage them right?

Just kinda wondering out loud.  

I'm doing the same as you, just thinking out loud.  I would think during a pandemic like this they could turn certain people away if they did not have life threatening symptoms but I don't know that for sure.  Our area hospitals have put out notices that they want all people to call in first with any health concerns and to not go straight to the doctor.  If you don't have any respiratory problems then they want you to self quarantine. 

[supermike80 2,156]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm doing the same as you, just thinking out loud.  I would think during a pandemic like this they could turn certain people away if they did not have life threatening symptoms but I don't know that for sure.  Our area hospitals have put out notices that they want all people to call in first with any health concerns and to not go straight to the doctor.  If you don't have any respiratory problems then they want you to self quarantine. 

People don't listen. To anything, ever.

People were calling 911 cause they were out of toilet paper.  People have been told repeatedly to NOT flush wipes and other material other than toilet paper.

Guess what people are doing?  Flushing wipes and non tp material   INCLUDING latex gloves.

You cannot ever, ever count on people to listen.  

[Cruzer 1,996]

16 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

You cannot ever, ever count on people to listen.  

Not to derail the discussion and open up a box of worms - but this is one of the cornerstone arguments against guns for everyone.

More guns to counter gun violence is scary. Why? Bcoz of exactly this - you can't trust people to listen, to be responsible - not ever as you stated. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,683]

1 hour ago, Baker Boy said:

In the end we would have a stronger healthier society.

I think this is true.  If we had done nothing... and still do nothing, then I think what @tanatastic said is probably what would have happened.  We'd all have gotten it by now and 1 of 2 outcomes would have come to fruition.  Either we'd get better and built  an immunity or have died.  Our death toll would have been massive.  In the end, a lot of the people on social security and medicare, would have passed away.  Economically, we'd actually be better off as there would be a lot less money being spent on those two things and the money could be allocated elsewhere.

[TBayXXXVII 2,683]

@Hawkeye21 @supermike80  Yes, if you go to the hospital, they MUST at least check you in and look you over.  They can't say, "just go home".

[TBayXXXVII 2,683]

Now, I'll say this, had we done nothing and the death toll sky rocketed, there would have had to have been some government intervention at some point.  There's no way that the public would have accepted the Officer Barbrady approach of "Move along.  Nothing to see here."

[edjr 7,052]

Holocaust Part Deux - Old People instead of Jews edition

 

[NorthernVike 2,102]

My liver would be much happier.   

[cbfalcon 828]

My issue is.....

I truly do understand the debate where we ask if 3 million lives are worth this amount of economic damage. It’s a debate worth having. 

But it’s not a random 3 million people from a vast swath of our society. In fact, most of us having the debate are at little risk. The people we are asking to pay this price are our parents and grandparents. They worked all of their lives and earned their golden years, and now we think they should sacrifice them for us?

Feels cold. 

[Hawkeye21 2,458]

1 minute ago, cbfalcon said:

My issue is.....

I truly do understand the debate where we ask if 3 million lives are worth this amount of economic damage. It’s a debate worth having. 

But it’s not a random 3 million people from a vast swath of our society. In fact, most of us having the debate are at little risk. The people we are asking to pay this price are our parents and grandparents. They worked all of their lives and earned their golden years, and now we think they should sacrifice them for us?

Feels cold. 

It is cold, and selfish.

[jerryskids 7,212]

41 minutes ago, cbfalcon said:

My issue is.....

I truly do understand the debate where we ask if 3 million lives are worth this amount of economic damage. It’s a debate worth having. 

But it’s not a random 3 million people from a vast swath of our society. In fact, most of us having the debate are at little risk. The people we are asking to pay this price are our parents and grandparents. They worked all of their lives and earned their golden years, and now we think they should sacrifice them for us?

Feels cold. 

What if it's 30,000, not 3 million?  What if in either case, we ask our parents and grandparents to quarantine themselves and the rest of us get us all through this without shutting down the entire country?

[Cloaca du jour 2,160]

If it only attacked people with a crap work ethic

[Baker Boy 1,711]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

It is cold, and selfish.

Yes but it is the law of nature, the strong survive. That is how species survive and get stronger. I believe we are the only species of plants or animals that do not practice this. In the end this practice will.......

[Hawkeye21 2,458]

Just now, Baker Boy said:

Yes but it is the law of nature, the strong survive. That is how species survive and get stronger. I believe we are the only species of plants or animals that do not practice this. In the end this practice will.......

That's what makes humans special.  Anyone that has close friends and family members should agree.

[cbfalcon 828]

20 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

What if it's 30,000, not 3 million?  What if in either case, we ask our parents and grandparents to quarantine themselves and the rest of us get us all through this without shutting down the entire country?

That sounds like a different debate.

If old people are most at risk, then what we are doing now is supposed to mostly be for their benefit. If you are saying there is a better way to keep them safe, then that’s something else.....Saving lives vs the cost of saving lives. 

[fandandy 3,314]

1 hour ago, cbfalcon said:

My issue is.....

I truly do understand the debate where we ask if 3 million lives are worth this amount of economic damage. It’s a debate worth having. 

But it’s not a random 3 million people from a vast swath of our society. In fact, most of us having the debate are at little risk. The people we are asking to pay this price are our parents and grandparents. They worked all of their lives and earned their golden years, and now we think they should sacrifice them for us?

Feels cold. 

While I agree the counter arguer might say that sacrificing the generation which saddled them with 23 Trillion dollars in debt and an environment that's seen better days is paybacks for being so selfish.

[Baker Boy 1,711]

8 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

That's what makes humans special.  Anyone that has close friends and family members should agree.

In the end Mother Nature will win, she always has and has a 4.5 billion year history to prove it.

And no we are not special but some people like to think we are.

[Hawkeye21 2,458]

1 minute ago, Baker Boy said:

In the end Mother Nature will win, she always has and has a 4.5 billion year history to prove it.

And no we are not special but some people like to think we are.

We take care of our loved ones and we even take care of strangers.  If you had a child that was deathly ill, would you do everything you could for them to recover or would you just say it's the law of nature.  In a vague way you are correct but it's not 100% accurate with us.

[Baker Boy 1,711]

2 minutes ago, fandandy said:

While I agree the counter arguer might say that sacrificing the generation which saddled them with 23 Trillion dollars in debt and an environment that's seen better days is paybacks for being so selfish.

Actually $13 Trillion has been accumulated over the last 12 years so it Gen X and Millennials  that are responsible for most of that debt. 

[Frozenbeernuts 2,457]

1 hour ago, cbfalcon said:

That sounds like a different debate.

If old people are most at risk, then what we are doing now is supposed to mostly be for their benefit. If you are saying there is a better way to keep them safe, then that’s something else.....Saving lives vs the cost of saving lives. 

It's also about not over taxing the health care system. I wouldn't want to work in a living nightmare for months

[Frozenbeernuts 2,457]

1 hour ago, Baker Boy said:

Actually $13 Trillion has been accumulated over the last 12 years so it Gen X and Millennials  that are responsible for most of that debt. 

Always love being rememinded how millenials were raised by the worst generation of parents

[jerryskids 7,212]

1 hour ago, cbfalcon said:

That sounds like a different debate.

If old people are most at risk, then what we are doing now is supposed to mostly be for their benefit. If you are saying there is a better way to keep them safe, then that’s something else.....Saving lives vs the cost of saving lives. 

The number of deaths is certainly a different debate.

I'm not saying there is a "better" way, but right now we are using a sledgehammer to drive in a penny nail.  For instance, my FIL is heading home from the hospital today from respiratory problems, as luck would have it, not covid thank god.  His son is picking him up and taking him there, but isn't allowed in the retirement facility.  They are basically in lockdown.  Now, the hole in this process is that my BIL may have covid, so either we need him to mask up or have a 'tested" person bring the FIL back.

I guess my point is that if we lock down retirement communities, and elderly in their homes, and provide some relief to people taking care of elderly in their homes, we can get through this like a normal nasty flu that wasn't covered by the flu shot.  We clearly have no clue though, so we are just shutting the whole country down.  Sledgehammer solution.

[jerryskids 7,212]

And to Baker Boy's point, Mother Nature WILL win if we keep on this vector.  We need to build up a herd immunity to these things, or they will just linger.  And we need a process which enables this immunity development in the next few years when the next POS animal flu comes out of some Asian wet market.

[Cdub100 3,996]

I'm all for flattening the curve, but maybe it's too flat...

 

*So long as someone I care about doesn't get sick.

[ZeroTolerance 584]

Much of the country would look like Detroit, Flint, NYC, New Orleans, etc. In other words, a total sh*tshow.

[naomi 361]

The amount of middle-aged people who get seriously sick with this is also disconcerting.

My $.02 with a huge preface: While I rationally recognize that something like this doesn't have to be shady at its core, my unscientific feeling is something more is up.

Just guessing this, obviously, but I think certain people know. And it's part of why the response is what it is. Tucker Carlson actually did a good job yesterday wading into this water.

Trump at this point and many in his orbit probably know, military brass know, other nations' leaders know. There's apparently some HIV like aspects to C19 (look it up). I first heard that observation from a doc in Florida who was simply on the sidelines at the time (mid Feb), reading medical research. NOT trying to suggest it's like being HIV +, it just has some behavior with that signature. Not suggesting anything about its long-term impact either. That's one of ~3 observed oddities that, in combination, fit weirdly from a natural step standpoint. Not saying it's necessarily scarier than a flu caliber virus that's simply new to us. Am saying, knowledge of origin probably plays a part in top-down response (besides preventing medical system overload).