Ahmaud Arbery

[The Observer 641]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express yesterday so I got nuthin... All I was saying is that I would think that if expert interviewers isolated the two white guys they should be able, hopefully, to see if their stories agree.

My opening statement in this thread, on this page or the previous, was that there seems to be plenty of stupid to go around.

On a related note, do we have a toxicology report on any of these folks?

The two white guys are father and son. And the old man is a cop. They've worked out what to say 100 times.  Pop knows the routine. 

[Cdub100 3,906]

48 minutes ago, peenie said:

But Cdubb, one of the guys was standing in the middle of the street in front of his car so when they guy ran around the car he was taken by surprise by a person pointing a gun at him.

 

[Cdub100 3,906]

10 minutes ago, The Observer said:

The two white guys are father and son. And the old man is a cop. They've worked out what to say 100 times.  Pop knows the routine. 

Everything they've said has matched up with video evidence. So if by worked out you mean tell the truth then yeah they worked it out.

[MDC 7,408]

14 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express yesterday so I got nuthin... All I was saying is that I would think that if expert interviewers isolated the two white guys they should be able, hopefully, to see if their stories agree.

My opening statement in this thread, on this page or the previous, was that there seems to be plenty of stupid to go around.

On a related note, do we have a toxicology report on any of these folks?

Not sure that’s going to matter much. “We thought he was responsible for burglaries that didn’t personally involve us, so we drove up onto him in a park and tried to detain him at gunpoint. He didn’t like that, so we had to kill him.”

It’s a story alright. It’s just a really dumb one.

[The Observer 641]

1 minute ago, Cdub100 said:

Everything they've said has matched up with video evidence. So if by worked out you mean tell the truth then yeah they worked it out.

They were discussing what the black guy was saying to them. And what they said to him. Is that apparent from the audio portion of the tape? 

[Utilit99 4,099]

21 minutes ago, The Observer said:

The two white guys are father and son. And the old man is a cop. They've worked out what to say 100 times.  Pop knows the routine. 

So they said that they "worked out what to say 100 times"?

[tanatastic 2,062]

Of course now Arbery was a cousin to an nfl player on the lions. Of course.

[Utilit99 4,099]

3 minutes ago, tanatastic said:

Of course now Arbery was a cousin to an nfl player on the lions. Of course.

He was a good boy.

[Masshole 642]

1 hour ago, The Observer said:

I walked inside at least a dozen under-construction homes in my day and have never once been hunted down and shot. 

All of you who are saying versions of this are either lying or were very lucky.    It is NOT OK to wander around a new construction site after hours.  I am not saying that ppl don't do it, just that it's not OK in the site owner's eyes and is also against the law.   

I worked in construction for many years (residential not much commercial).    Most construction crews don't have the ppl or the financials to police the site after hours but trust me - they are not cool with you wandering around the site once they have left.   First - it's a safety issue.  They don't want to find you the next morning laying in the basement with broken bones because you feel thru a hole in the floor.   Second - to say theft isn't a problem on construction sites is a lie.    If it were true, then why do they take all of their tools with them when they leave and/or lock them in secure storage boxes.     Why do you think that car sized tool storage box is dangling from the end of a crane over the weekend?   Because they think it looks cool?

Some of you may be operating on dated knowledge.   A lot of this started to change about 20 -30 yrs ago when the price of lumber started to skyrocket.   Lumber is fukin expensive now and that's not going to change.   So, theft of building materials from job sites after hours became a problem for builders and they had to start locking down the sites from trepassers and discouraging it more.   

More recently - I had a spot for years where we could do beach bonfires/parties.  Use to do a lot of them until recently.   I always found the best and easiest (i.e. it don't cost nothing) wood to use for the bonfires was the scrap from new constructions sites.   I used to go to the wood dumpsters at sites and fill my pick up with scrap.   But I got confronted about that a couple of times,  including one guy (who must have had someone watching the site)  who came racing up in his truck and challenged me about what the hell I was doing there and threw me out.     After that I changed and would just go during working hours and ask nicely if I could dumpster dive for scrap wood (while they were there).   Most were cool with that.             

[Hardcore troubadour 15,423]

11 minutes ago, tanatastic said:

Of course now Arbery was a cousin to an nfl player on the lions. Of course.

23 and me? 

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

1 hour ago, The Observer said:

I walked inside at least a dozen under-construction homes in my day and have never once been hunted down and shot. 

I'm white.  When I was 8 years old and visiting my grandmother, I walked down the street to the next block where my parents were building a new house.  I walked around the property and into the house.  When I came out 10 minutes later, a cop was there asking about why I was wondering around.  Told me that a neighbor called and saw someone lurking around.  I wasn't hunted down or shot, but a person did call the cops on me.  I'm guessing the two main reasons were 1) I wasn't looking with the intent to steal anything, and 2) I didn't run when the cop showed up.

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 hour ago, The Observer said:

I walked inside at least a dozen under-construction homes in my day and have never once been hunted down and shot. 

You fvcking idiot.

[Utilit99 4,099]

17 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I'm white.  When I was 8 years old and visiting my grandmother, I walked down the street to the next block where my parents were building a new house.  I walked around the property and into the house.  When I came out 10 minutes later, a cop was there asking about why I was wondering around.  Told me that a neighbor called and saw someone lurking around.  I wasn't hunted down or shot, but a person did call the cops on me.  I'm guessing the two main reasons were 1) I wasn't looking with the intent to steal anything, and 2) I didn't run when the cop showed up.

I didn't know you were black.

[Cdub100 3,906]

3 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I'm white.  When I was 8 years old and visiting my grandmother, I walked down the street to the next block where my parents were building a new house.  I walked around the property and into the house.  When I came out 10 minutes later, a cop was there asking about why I was wondering around.  Told me that a neighbor called and saw someone lurking around.  I wasn't hunted down or shot, but a person did call the cops on me.  I'm guessing the two main reasons were 1) I wasn't looking with the intent to steal anything, and 2) I didn't run when the cop showed up.

Dumb, you're supposed to run at the cop and try and take his gun. That's what a normal person does.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

2 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

Dumb, you're supposed to run at the cop and try and take his gun. That's what a normal person does.

What cops are we talking about here? 

The guys in the truck were local rednecks with guns in the Arbery case.

[tanatastic 2,062]

I’d be interested in a toxicology report on any man who got shot while attacking two armed men with his fists.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,423]

Just now, tanatastic said:

I’d be interested in a toxicology report on any man who got shot while attacking two armed men with his fists.

Probably show he was off his meds. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

12 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

I didn't know you were black.

LOL, here's the funny thing... they neighbor that called the cops on me was black!!  Well, she lived across the street, one house over.  After we moved in, I found that she was the nicest old lady.  Sometimes when my brother and I were coming home from school (Middle school - we walked - it was 7 blocks away), and our parents weren't home, we would stay with her.  She would make us chocolate chip cookies all the time. 

 

About 5 years later, her son (Lester), built a house right next door to us.  He worked with my dad.  Great guy.  He got married a few years later (to a white girl [Brandy], gigantic b00bs), and they had a boy (Jarred).  My son was born 1 year later.  I used to babysit for them from time to time as they did for me.  Our boys grew up together and are still great friends to this.  My son is Republican.  Neither the old lady, Lester (or his wife), or Jarred really follow politics.  One thing we all have in common is that we know all media people and politicians lie out their azzes.

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

10 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

If you have been paying attention to the left, you would know that only black people get the cops called on them. You must be mistaken.

 

9 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

Dumb, you're supposed to run at the cop and try and take his gun. That's what a normal person does.

I know that now, but I was 8 back then.  I didn't know any better.

[The Observer 641]

25 minutes ago, Masshole said:

All of you who are saying versions of this are either lying or were very lucky.    It is NOT OK to wander around a new construction site after hours.  I am not saying that ppl don't do it, just that it's not OK in the site owner's eyes and is also against the law.   

I worked in construction for many years (residential not much commercial).    Most construction crews don't have the ppl or the financials to police the site after hours but trust me - they are not cool with you wandering around the site once they have left.   First - it's a safety issue.  They don't want to find you the next morning laying in the basement with broken bones because you feel thru a hole in the floor.   Second - to say theft isn't a problem on construction sites is a lie.    If it were true, then why do they take all of their tools with them when they leave and/or lock them in secure storage boxes.     Why do you think that car sized tool storage box is dangling from the end of a crane over the weekend?   Because they think it looks cool?

Some of you may be operating on dated knowledge.   A lot of this started to change about 20 -30 yrs ago when the price of lumber started to skyrocket.   Lumber is fukin expensive now and that's not going to change.   So, theft of building materials from job sites after hours became a problem for builders and they had to start locking down the sites from trepassers and discouraging it more.   

More recently - I had a spot for years where we could do beach bonfires/parties.  Use to do a lot of them until recently.   I always found the best and easiest (i.e. it don't cost nothing) wood to use for the bonfires was the scrap from new constructions sites.   I used to go to the wood dumpsters at sites and fill my pick up with scrap.   But I got confronted about that a couple of times,  including one guy (who must have had someone watching the site)  who came racing up in his truck and challenged me about what the hell I was doing there and threw me out.     After that I changed and would just go during working hours and ask nicely if I could dumpster dive for scrap wood (while they were there).   Most were cool with that.             

I didn't say it was okay.  I even knew when I was 15 it wasn't okay.  But I did it. Never once feared I'd be shot and killed. 

[The Observer 641]

11 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

What cops are we talking about here? 

The guys in the truck were local rednecks with guns in the Arbery case.

I think he means Jethro and Cletus. The black guy was supposed to respect them. As if they were cops and not racist redneck asswipes.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,423]

Black people never call the cops on black people. Those thousands of 911 calls I responded to in the south Bronx must have been made from people in Westchester.   Or maybe at the Yankee game on game days. 

[Casual Observer 597]

23 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I'm white.  When I was 8 years old and visiting my grandmother, I walked down the street to the next block where my parents were building a new house.  I walked around the property and into the house.  When I came out 10 minutes later, a cop was there asking about why I was wondering around.  Told me that a neighbor called and saw someone lurking around.  I wasn't hunted down or shot, but a person did call the cops on me.  I'm guessing the two main reasons were 1) I wasn't looking with the intent to steal anything, and 2) I didn't run when the cop showed up.

And you were 8.

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

3 minutes ago, Casual Observer said:

And you were 8.

That didn't stop someone from calling the cops on me.  It also didn't stop the cop from taking his hand off his gun until I started talking to him.  Cop was white.  His partner, in the car, was Hispanic.

[Casual Observer 597]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

That didn't stop someone from calling the cops on me.

Yes, but you were guessing as to the reasons you didn't get shot and I'm going to put "because you were 8" at the top of the list.  Of course, I'm certain you didn't try to charge the cop and take his gun either.

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

3 minutes ago, Casual Observer said:

Yes, but you were guessing as to the reasons you didn't get shot and I'm going to put "because you were 8" at the top of the list.  Of course, I'm certain you didn't try to charge the cop and take his gun either.

Well, if I were "guilty" and ran instantly, the cops wouldn't have known that I was only 8.  They didn't know that I was that young until I walked up to them.  The house structure was 80' from the road.  There was no driveway yet, so the cops were parked out by the road.  I'm thinking that most people can't tell someone's age from 80' away.

[Utilit99 4,099]

3 minutes ago, Casual Observer said:

Yes, but you were guessing as to the reasons you didn't get shot and I'm going to put "because you were 8" at the top of the list.  Of course, I'm certain you didn't try to charge the cop and take his gun either.

No. It was only because he was white that he didn't get shot. Otherwise, R.I.P.

I think the only reason the neighbor called the cops on him is that it was dark and they thought he was black.

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

15 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

No. It was only because he was white that he didn't get shot. Otherwise, R.I.P.

I think the only reason the neighbor called the cops on him is that it was dark and they thought he was black.

It was actually in the afternoon on a sunny day.  I overheard the conversation between the officer in the car and the dispatcher (the windows in the car were down), it was in the summer.  I heard the cop tell the dispatcher "it's a young boy, not a man".

[RLLD 4,230]

4 hours ago, MDC said:

Playing devil’s advocate here: Doesn’t Arbery have a right to defend himself? Seems weird to me that they’re allowed to try to physically restrain him for what as of right now seems like no good reason. But he’s not allowed to take a swing or whatever in reply? 

Yep, they should have called 911 and just followed the guy, and waiting for him to attack them.  I think these two crossed a line by trying to grab the guy, not their job, and sorta stupid, what if he had a bidder gun etc....

Two morons trying to capture some other moron = bad outcomes.

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

4 hours ago, The Observer said:

If I'm a black guy and saw these Joe Bob and Cletus pull up and jump out of their truck and come at me, I'm thinking I'm getting lynched. To suggest he shouldn't defend himself is laughable. 

The flaw in this is that the reason this situation happened was because Arbery put himself in it.  If he wasn't trespassing, this would not have happened.  Also, another flaw you have is that you like to pretend that the left wing bull crap of all white southerners are racist.  Maybe, if you're black, not breaking the law, and actually jogging... "Joe Bob and Cletus" would never have engaged you.  But... why would common sense and logic ever factor in to left wing thinking. It MUST be SOMEONE ELSE's fault.

[The Observer 641]

5 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

The flaw in this is that the reason this situation happened was because Arbery put himself in it.  If he wasn't trespassing, this would not have happened.  Also, another flaw you have is that you like to pretend that the left wing bull crap of all white southerners are racist.  Maybe, if you're black, not breaking the law, and actually jogging... "Joe Bob and Cletus" would never have engaged you.  But... why would common sense and logic ever factor in to left wing thinking. It MUST be SOMEONE ELSE's fault.

You can twist and struggle all you want to change what is evident on the video. Joe Bob and Cletus approached the black kid. They had no business approaching him, they are not officers of the law. If they had suspected him of doing something, they can call the cops. As it was, they decided to confront the kid, obviously feeling threatened the black kid fought back, and then the pussies shot him rather than fight. I personally would love to see them both be in jail the rest of their lives, but they won't. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,423]

I’d have to say Newbie has used more bigoted and racially derogatory  terms than anyone else in this thread. Give it a rest. 

[RLLD 4,230]

1 minute ago, The Observer said:

You can twist and struggle all you want to change what is evident on the video. Joe Bob and Cletus approached the black kid. They had no business approaching him, they are not officers of the law. If they had suspected him of doing something, they can call the cops. As it was, they decided to confront the kid, obviously feeling threatened the black kid fought back, and then the pussies shot him rather than fight. I personally would love to see them both be in jail the rest of their lives, but they won't. 

Yeah, I am kinda with this......I mean, he was just a dumb kid more than likely, not unlike any other dumb kid and made a mistake, but these two yahoo's could have just let him roll out or call the police, they should not have tried to grab him.  Follow  him if they want, call the police, lead the police to him and let THEM sort it out.

[Fireballer 2,642]

4 hours ago, The Observer said:

If I'm a black guy and saw these Joe Bob and Cletus pull up and jump out of their truck and come at me, I'm thinking I'm getting lynched. To suggest he shouldn't defend himself is laughable. 

Besides the victim being black, do you have any info that proves its a racist act?  Do you have knowledge of previous hat crime convictions? Could you give me an example, if you believe its even possible, of a white on black violent crime that isnt racially motivated? 

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

4 hours ago, MDC said:

Playing devil’s advocate here: Doesn’t Arbery have a right to defend himself? Seems weird to me that they’re allowed to try to physically restrain him for what as of right now seems like no good reason. But he’s not allowed to take a swing or whatever in reply? 

Everyone has a right to defend themselves.  The thing is, we can't hear the audio.  IF IF IF.... these guys are making a citizen's arrest and they told Arbery that they were making a citizen's arrest, it's important to know what laws/rules apply.

The requirements to make a Citizen's Arrest:

• Witness the crime take place
  • Apparently they did... they had the video.
• Have probable cause or reasonable belief that the person committed a crime.
  • They do.  They know that Arbery didn't live there
• Determine whether the crime is a felony
  • We know the father was involved in law enforcement... he knows that trespassing is a felony.
• Decide whether its safe to make the arrest
  • I think it was safe.  Arbery was out in the open and didn't appear to have a weapon.
• Fully understand the circumstances and the responsibility in making the arrest
  • Because the father was in law enforcement, I'd like to the think he knew those responsibilities.

 

To me, the father and son were perfectly within their legal rights to attempt a citizens arrest.  Here's where things get tricky.  If these two were within their rights, and it appears they were, they are allowed to use deadly force if "if the arresting citizen or witnesses are in immediate physical danger by the suspect", (see the link I provided).  Now, each state is different, but we'll see where Georgia stands on that.  So, if these guys were within their rights to make a citizens arrest and Arbery did try to attack them, is he actually "defending himself"?  I think that's where the dispute may come from.  I think he doesn't.  If it's found that the two were well within their rights to make the arrest, I hate it, but I think the two are within their rights to shoot him.  I'm not a lawyer though.  Personally, I think the use of excessive force is the way the prosecution should go and maybe involuntary manslaughter.  At this point, I think that's their only way of getting a conviction.  Legally, I don't think they're guilty of murder, just stupidity.

[TBayXXXVII 2,545]

12 minutes ago, The Observer said:

You can twist and struggle all you want to change what is evident on the video. Joe Bob and Cletus approached the black kid. They had no business approaching him, they are not officers of the law. If they had suspected him of doing something, they can call the cops. As it was, they decided to confront the kid, obviously feeling threatened the black kid fought back, and then the pussies shot him rather than fight. I personally would love to see them both be in jail the rest of their lives, but they won't. 

You're wrong.  They had the legal right to make a citizen's arrest.  Feel free to read the post just above in my response to MDC.

[RLLD 4,230]

5 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Besides the victim being black, do you have any info that proves its a racist act?  Do you have knowledge of previous hat crime convictions? Could you give me an example, if you believe its even possible, of a white on black violent crime that isnt racially motivated? 

@ Observer which you quoted above   Suggesting a lynching is a pretty moronic statement, the last reporting act of this kind was in 1981, I mean, suer the kids was probably afraid knowing he got caught, but lynching?   It really ruins a conversation when we pretend its suddenly decades ago.....

[The Observer 641]

4 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

You're wrong.  They had the legal right to make a citizen's arrest.  Feel free to read the post just above in my response to MDC.

Well if you're going to play the hero and make a citizen's arrest against a black kid who's unarmed, and you have two grown men, you better be prepared to detain him without having to kill him.  They had two men. Why was he even carrying a gun when he confronted him? That could have been left in the truck if they ended up needing it. A skinny black kid and two burly white guys and they needed a gun? Obviously shooting him was something they had planned on. Or at least planned for.

[The Observer 641]

6 minutes ago, RLLD said:

@ Observer which you quoted above   Suggesting a lynching is a pretty moronic statement, the last reporting act of this kind was in 1981, I mean, suer the kids was probably afraid knowing he got caught, but lynching?   It really ruins a conversation when we pretend its suddenly decades ago.....

I used lynching as a generic term meaning when 2 racist hillbillies decide they're going to kill a black boy. I don't care how they go about doing it.

[peenie 1,915]

What did you want him to do, start crying? Fall to the ground with arms and legs splayed? You wanted that he should acquiesce to complete strangers? White men in the back of their pick up truck carrying rifles? One of them not in clear view of the runner? You all never heard of fight or flight??!! Some people run when they're afraid while others fight. Those men could've been serial killers or murderers. You automatically assign a good label to those men but to a stranger they are unfamiliar and scary. This is the same thing that happened with the Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin situation. Strangers approaching another stranger and expecting to get respect and to be seen as an authority figure? Why???