Updated: Deshaun Watson Drama

[TimHauck 2,878]

On 3/22/2021 at 11:03 PM, polecatt said:

Yeah, it's still not legal to coerce people into intercourse like that. It's certainly not the kind of thing that gets a pass in this day and age.

Remember what happened with Ray Rice and Greg Hardy? Both of them were done.

They're gonna try to make him look like Darren Sharper, deserved or not

 

Greg Hardy wasn’t done.

Neither was Joe Mixon.

Or Kareem Hunt.

Or other people I’m probably forgetting.

I think part of the reason Ray Rice never played again was because he only averaged 3 YPC in his last year.

Watson will probably get released and maybe suspended for a year, but I’d be shocked if he doesn’t play in the NFL again.

 

[polecatt 478]

1 hour ago, TimHauck said:

Greg Hardy wasn’t done.

Neither was Joe Mixon.

Or Kareem Hunt.

Or other people I’m probably forgetting.

I think part of the reason Ray Rice never played again was because he only averaged 3 YPC in his last year.

Watson will probably get released and maybe suspended for a year, but I’d be shocked if he doesn’t play in the NFL again.

 

Yeah Hardy was pretty much done. He played part of a season after that but it didn't go so well and the Cowboys took so much heat for signing him in the first place, it was clear nobody was gonna touch him again.

Joe Mixon and Kareem Hunt were both single incidents of not so serious domestic violence cases. Neither was an incident like Ray Rice, with a Mike Tyson knock out punch followed by a caveman drag across the parking lot.

Over 20 cases of sexual assault, that's potentially something that could land him in prison several years. It's much more serious.

[TBayXXXVII 2,547]

12 hours ago, AxeElf said:

lol

I've known for some time (since declaring that Ronald Jones would average 20 carries per week in 2020) that you have a rich fantasy life.

I see now that it extends beyond the football world as well.

Well, to be fair, I did say that before they signed Fournette, did I not?  I also said that he'd get around 16 or 17... AFTER they signed Fournette.  Go do the math and let me know how I did.... 192 carries, 28 receptions... 14 games.  I'll wait.

In the 4 games Fournette missed (weeks 4-6 and 14), Jones averaged 22.5 touches (78 carries / 12 receptions), per game.  In those games, he totaled 458 yards, 2 TD and 12 receptions.  For fantasy purposes, that equates 69.8 points or 17.45 fpg.  I think we can all now just put it to bed that I was right, and move on.

[TBayXXXVII 2,547]

15 hours ago, polecatt said:

Even if all that's true, which is a long shot, he deserves to get his name run through the mud on it if for no other reason than being a moron.

For solicitation of prostitution?  Meh.  Just because these girls are massage therapists, the act of paying for sex is solicitation prostitution... no matter what the girls call themselves.  Heck, it's legal is a couple of cities in the US... not just Vegas I believe and we have a state (Vermont?), looking into making it legal statewide.

Now, if he did what these girls claimed (and I'm highly skeptical), then I'm fine with him never even taking another snap in his life. 

[polecatt 478]

48 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

For solicitation of prostitution?  Meh.  Just because these girls are massage therapists, the act of paying for sex is solicitation prostitution... no matter what the girls call themselves.  Heck, it's legal is a couple of cities in the US... not just Vegas I believe and we have a state (Vermont?), looking into making it legal statewide.

Now, if he did what these girls claimed (and I'm highly skeptical), then I'm fine with him never even taking another snap in his life. 

No, not really just solicitation, mostly just for being a general DF.

He should be made an example of just for putting himself in such a situation to begin with. I wouldn't go as far as to say he should never play again, for it, but maybe it would wake some of these guys up as to why not to act like a fool around predatory women.

If the claims that are being made are mostly true, then it's much more serious than that

[TBayXXXVII 2,547]

9 minutes ago, polecatt said:

No, not really just solicitation, mostly just for being a general DF.

He should be made an example of just for putting himself in such a situation to begin with. I wouldn't go as far as to say he should never play again, for it, but maybe it would wake some of these guys up as to why not to act like a fool around predatory women.

If the claims that are being made are mostly true, then it's much more serious than that

I guess it could work.  I think the massive majority of players aren't foolish... I think it's the rare few.  It's not like we hear about a lot of incidents like this every year.  Money changes people though, so no matter how much logic and common sense a person can have, the ego inflates massively when they have a bank account that has 2 commas in it.

I don't think anything serious will happen to Watson.  The girls can't prove anything.  All they have is accusations.  It's too late for DNA.  There's no video evidence.  It's their word against his.  They can't prove that he forced them to do anything and they can't prove that they didn't give consent.  It's purely financial.  He'll never serve a day jail and if all of them win their civil suit (and I'm not sure how they can), let's say there's 50 of them... they'll get $15k-20k each.  What, he's out $10M?  He's already got $60M in the bank!  

[AxeElf 787]

4 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Go do the math and let me know how I did.... 192 carries, 28 receptions... 14 games.  I'll wait.

You'll wait?  I told you how you would do in August.  You were wrong then and you're wrong now.  In the games Jones played, he averaged 13.7 carries and 15.7 overall touches per game--some 25% less than your prediction.

4 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I think we can all now just put it to bed that I was right wrong, and move on.

ftfy

[TBayXXXVII 2,547]

1 hour ago, AxeElf said:

You'll wait?  I told you how you would do in August.  You were wrong then and you're wrong now.  In the games Jones played, he averaged 13.7 carries and 15.7 overall touches per game--some 25% less than your prediction.

ftfy

I said 20 before the Fournette signing.  After that signing, I said around 16 or 17.  I think most would agree that 15.7 is around 16 or 17.  Just take the "L" and move on.

[AxeElf 787]

3 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I said 20 before the Fournette signing.  After that signing you corrected me, I said around 16 or 17.

ftfy

[TBayXXXVII 2,547]

1 minute ago, AxeElf said:

ftfy

You're having a hard time being wrong, aren't you.    Still butt hurt from 31-9?

[AxeElf 787]

5 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

You're having a hard time being wrong, aren't you. 

Hello pot?  This is the kettle...

[Ray_T 753]

17 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I guess it could work.  I think the massive majority of players aren't foolish... I think it's the rare few.  It's not like we hear about a lot of incidents like this every year.  Money changes people though, so no matter how much logic and common sense a person can have, the ego inflates massively when they have a bank account that has 2 commas in it.

I don't think anything serious will happen to Watson.  The girls can't prove anything.  All they have is accusations.  It's too late for DNA.  There's no video evidence.  It's their word against his.  They can't prove that he forced them to do anything and they can't prove that they didn't give consent.  It's purely financial.  He'll never serve a day jail and if all of them win their civil suit (and I'm not sure how they can), let's say there's 50 of them... they'll get $15k-20k each.  What, he's out $10M?  He's already got $60M in the bank!  

honestly at this point, we dont know what can or cannot be proven.

I think the only scenario where he wiggles out of the situation is if all those masseuse gales happen to work at happy ending type massage parlors.

cops would never press charges in that scenario, and while seedy he would likely not be convicted.

but if those gals are in a legitimate (proper) massage parlor not known for giving happy endings, he is likely in some trouble.  no doubt some of the charges wont stick for lack of evidence, but if there is enough evidence with even one gal to show hes at least been a major jerk-off (pardon the pun) he will get suspended by the NFL for sure.

honestly and truly, this still looks like trouble for Watson.   it sounds like there is documentation on at least one of the so called massages.

we know said massage was booked for him.   for obvious reasons there is no video evidence. but I am betting there is video evidence at the hotel of the gal entering his room and leaving.

If her story is she entered and gave him a massage and left shortly after starting because of his (lets say advances).   then there would be video evidence of her leaving before her scheduled massage was supposed to end.  (or shortly after it began)   At this point many of the pieces of the puzzle are in place.

how many reasons can there possibly be for her to leave her massage early?

maybe it is her word against his, but if those facts seem to fit her story this looks bad for him.

I dont know all the facts, but based on the story I read, the one story may be reasonably convincing if the hotel camera records support that story.   I cant speak for the others but the fact there are a lot of women who have come forward does not necessarily help his cause.  Each of these other complaints is a nail in the proverbial coffin for him.

 

on the other hand, if the camera evidence from hotel security cams do not support her story, we may have a different outcome.   but with the sheer number of complaints, there may be the possibility of putting together evidence on some of their cases as well (depending on how recent their complaint was)

like I said, if those are legit massage gals he may be in trouble.  if they are just happy ending massage girls, he may not be in the same level of trouble, but hes likely still in trouble.

[TBayXXXVII 2,547]

5 hours ago, Ray_T said:

honestly at this point, we dont know what can or cannot be proven.

I think the only scenario where he wiggles out of the situation is if all those masseuse gales happen to work at happy ending type massage parlors.

cops would never press charges in that scenario, and while seedy he would likely not be convicted.

but if those gals are in a legitimate (proper) massage parlor not known for giving happy endings, he is likely in some trouble.  no doubt some of the charges wont stick for lack of evidence, but if there is enough evidence with even one gal to show hes at least been a major jerk-off (pardon the pun) he will get suspended by the NFL for sure.

honestly and truly, this still looks like trouble for Watson.   it sounds like there is documentation on at least one of the so called massages.

we know said massage was booked for him.   for obvious reasons there is no video evidence. but I am betting there is video evidence at the hotel of the gal entering his room and leaving.

If her story is she entered and gave him a massage and left shortly after starting because of his (lets say advances).   then there would be video evidence of her leaving before her scheduled massage was supposed to end.  (or shortly after it began)   At this point many of the pieces of the puzzle are in place.

how many reasons can there possibly be for her to leave her massage early?

maybe it is her word against his, but if those facts seem to fit her story this looks bad for him.

I dont know all the facts, but based on the story I read, the one story may be reasonably convincing if the hotel camera records support that story.   I cant speak for the others but the fact there are a lot of women who have come forward does not necessarily help his cause.  Each of these other complaints is a nail in the proverbial coffin for him.

 

on the other hand, if the camera evidence from hotel security cams do not support her story, we may have a different outcome.   but with the sheer number of complaints, there may be the possibility of putting together evidence on some of their cases as well (depending on how recent their complaint was)

like I said, if those are legit massage gals he may be in trouble.  if they are just happy ending massage girls, he may not be in the same level of trouble, but hes likely still in trouble.

Without video evidence, you can't prove anything because - to my knowledge (and let me know if this isn't correct) - none of these girls went to the doctor or hospital to get a rape kit done and none filed a police report.  There are no pictures of bruises and there's no DNA.  It's literally "he said / she said".  In a criminal case, there's a 0% chance that he said / she said will convict.  That's the only reason why I say this won't be more serious than a money issue.

Regardless of whether this was at a spa/parlor, his place or hers, or another place all together, none of the parties are denying that they were there.  Video evidence in hallways, street camera's, or door cameras putting them in the same place at the same time won't hurt Watson because none of them show that the acts weren't consensual.  They will all prove that they were both there.  He's not denying that and neither are the girls.  Consent is the only thing in question and no one can prove whether it was given or not.

Even if camera's show a girl entering a room and leaving 3 minutes later, that still doesn't prove anything.  He could have said, "hey, I don't know if they told you, but I like (random request a, b, and c), if you're not interested in that, I'll pay you for your time and you can leave".  If she leaves, whether she takes the money or not, that's not sexual harassment or sexual assault.  She can't prove that he didn't say that and he can't prove that he did.  Again, it's all he said / she said.

NOW, if there are text messages and alike that contain information that there was sexual assault or or harassment, then that's a different story.  I won't believe any rumors of that, but I won't ignore the possibility that they exist.  I am skeptical however.  A lawyer filing on behalf of the alleged victims with the advantage, will prosecute the case in court... not the society.  If the rumors exist, it was probably floated out there to make Watson look bad in the court of public opinion.  It's a way for him to pay them to go away instead of going to court.

There's no criminal charges at all being filed.  They're all civil.  So it's solely about money and not jail time.  Even if he's found guilty on all charges, there's still not enough to file criminal charges.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's a saint or anything, I'm just saying that at this point in time, I don't see anything that gives these girls a leg to stand on.  It doesn't mean that it won't happen as time progresses and if that happens, then fine. I have no problems with him being held accountable.  I'm just saying that I'm skeptical that all of these girls kept quiet this long and then all of a sudden, there's like 20.  Sorry, I'm just not buying it.

I'll be honest with you.  If it comes out that these girls are lying, I think they should all serve a prison sentence.

[AxeElf 787]

Good Lord...  If Speculation was an Olympic sport, y'all would have the gold medal locked up.  Here are some facts to balance it out...

Only 2 of the 13 cases filed thus far have alleged sexual assault, both describing "forcible attempts at oral sex."  All of the 13 cases allege simple Assault and Harassment (intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress).  There were no rape kits performed, because no rape is being alleged.

All of the cases are suing for "minimal compensatory damages" (actual losses suffered, such as an injury or lost wages), but are also seeking punitive damages (to punish the defendant's behavior).

All of the cases are civil, which means the burden of proof is much lower--but the NFL doesn't have to wait on a judgment to issue their own punishment, if they feel that Watson's alleged behavior reflects negatively on the League.

Basically there's not much more being alleged than that Watson got fresh with them and made them feel uncomfortable with the comments he made while they were rubbing him mostly naked.

[TBayXXXVII 2,547]

1 hour ago, AxeElf said:

Good Lord...  If Speculation was an Olympic sport, y'all would have the gold medal locked up.  Here are some facts to balance it out...

Only 2 of the 13 cases filed thus far have alleged sexual assault, both describing "forcible attempts at oral sex."  All of the 13 cases allege simple Assault and Harassment (intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress).  There were no rape kits performed, because no rape is being alleged.

All of the cases are suing for "minimal compensatory damages" (actual losses suffered, such as an injury or lost wages), but are also seeking punitive damages (to punish the defendant's behavior).

All of the cases are civil, which means the burden of proof is much lower--but the NFL doesn't have to wait on a judgment to issue their own punishment, if they feel that Watson's alleged behavior reflects negatively on the League.

Basically there's not much more being alleged than that Watson got fresh with them and made them feel uncomfortable with the comments he made while they were rubbing him mostly naked.

All that when you could've just said "Yeah, TBay is right".  Would have saved you a lot of typing.

[AxeElf 787]

23 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

All that when you could've just said "Yeah, TBay is right".  Would have saved you a lot of typing.

You're kind of getting a complex over your break from reality, aren't you...?

It was largely your wild speculations about rape kits and bruises, among other things, that prompted my attempt to ground this thread in some facts.

[taco breath 424]

c0ck size?

[Ray_T 753]

On 3/26/2021 at 1:01 PM, AxeElf said:

You're kind of getting a complex over your break from reality, aren't you...?

It was largely your wild speculations about rape kits and bruises, among other things, that prompted my attempt to ground this thread in some facts.

A rape kit is usually only needed if a rape actually happened.   Am I wrong about this?

To my knowledge Rape has never been suggested or mentioned.

This is sexual harrassment moreso than anything.  but if unwanted touching happened there may be something more there.

make no mistake about it, this is plenty to derail his career.

Like I said, I dont see many scenarios where he does not get suspended.

especially considering how many complainants we are looking at.

There may also  be more complainants who will still come forward. (though I am inclined to think most if not all the women who plan to come forward have already done so)

I do think he is young enough that he can bounce back from this.  but Teams may not want to have anything to do with the guy for a while.   for Desean, this is a major problem.  he wants to make a bunch of money and he wants a trade.   right now it looks like no team will trade for him.  (at least not fair market value) so his chances of going somewhere else by choice may be extremely limited.

 

[Super Cubs 154]

9 hours ago, Ray_T said:

A rape kit is usually only needed if a rape actually happened.   Am I wrong about this?

To my knowledge Rape has never been suggested or mentioned.

2 of the alleged cases are for sexual assault. One for forced oral and not sure of the other. Then there are a lot cases with exposer and freaky stuff.  

Check out the SI article with a Houston massage therapist and her alleged experience with Watson.  She's currently not part of any lawsuit.

[Ray_T 753]

ok I never heard about  forced oral, but I did hear he grabbed one womans hand and put it toward his junk unitl there was some touching.

if I have Time I will check out the article.  but I"m at a point where I have  probably wasted too much time on this already

[Vikings4ever 550]

So apparently the lawyer was adamant he was going to present evidence to the cops... then changed his mind.

[weepaws 3,197]

Yawn

[Hardcore troubadour 15,449]

Sounds like an entitled jerk at the very least. I will now root for his demise. 

[AxeElf 787]

3 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Sounds like an entitled jerk at the very least. I will now root for his demise. 

I guess your days of watching sports are over.

[weepaws 3,197]

11 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

I guess your days of watching sports are over.

Exactly 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,449]

4 hours ago, AxeElf said:

I guess your days of watching sports are over.

Why is that? I enjoy rooting against people as well as rooting for them.  It’s not that complicated. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,449]

4 hours ago, weepaws said:

Exactly 

 Not surprising you might struggle with the concept. 

[AxeElf 787]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Why is that? I enjoy rooting against people as well as rooting for them.  It’s not that complicated. 

I just don't know who you can root FOR, if you root against entitled jerks.

[weepaws 3,197]

7 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

 Not surprising you might struggle with the concept. 

No not all, I was simply speaking of myself. 

Thanks. 

[jrokh 608]

5 hours ago, AxeElf said:

I just don't know who you can root FOR, if you root against entitled jerks.

Nick Chubb for starters...

[Hardcore troubadour 15,449]

6 hours ago, AxeElf said:

I just don't know who you can root FOR, if you root against entitled jerks.

Some are worse than others. Watson appears to be upper echelon. 

[TimHauck 2,878]

On 3/26/2021 at 1:19 PM, AxeElf said:

Good Lord...  If Speculation was an Olympic sport, y'all would have the gold medal locked up.  Here are some facts to balance it out...

Only 2 of the 13 cases filed thus far have alleged sexual assault, both describing "forcible attempts at oral sex."  All of the 13 cases allege simple Assault and Harassment (intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress).  There were no rape kits performed, because no rape is being alleged.

All of the cases are suing for "minimal compensatory damages" (actual losses suffered, such as an injury or lost wages), but are also seeking punitive damages (to punish the defendant's behavior).

All of the cases are civil, which means the burden of proof is much lower--but the NFL doesn't have to wait on a judgment to issue their own punishment, if they feel that Watson's alleged behavior reflects negatively on the League.

Basically there's not much more being alleged than that Watson got fresh with them and made them feel uncomfortable with the comments he made while they were rubbing him mostly naked.

So what do you think should/will happen to Watson from the NFL?

[TimHauck 2,878]

On 3/30/2021 at 8:05 AM, Super Cubs said:

2 of the alleged cases are for sexual assault. One for forced oral and not sure of the other. Then there are a lot cases with exposer and freaky stuff.  

Check out the SI article with a Houston massage therapist and her alleged experience with Watson.  She's currently not part of any lawsuit.

Yeah I haven’t read everything but I think that was one of the ones I did read.

I thought the one part that may have been particularly damning as far as his intentions at least (but still circumstantial) was that he apparently reached out to the same girl who denied his advances two more times, not realizing who she was.   When she reiteratered that she didn’t do what he was looking for, I think he stopped responding.

I’m sure some of the girls probably did do some “extra,” so in those cases it may be hard to determine consent, but if you throw in some evidence of girls turning him down it seems pretty clear he’s got a problem.

I still think he’s looking at probably a year suspension (maybe 2 as there’s been more accusers come up since I said that I initially) and then a team signs him after that.

 

[AxeElf 787]

3 hours ago, TimHauck said:

So what do you think should/will happen to Watson from the NFL?

That would call for additional speculation, the overabundance of which I was already protesting.

[weepaws 3,197]

Looks like the police are now looking for him. 

The plot thickens 

[Utilit99 4,099]

4 hours ago, weepaws said:

Looks like the police are now looking for him. 

The plot thickens 

Is he on the run?

[Super Cubs 154]

7 hours ago, Utilit99 said:

Is he on the run?

I think what he meant to say is the police are looking into him or investigating

[polecatt 478]

9 hours ago, Utilit99 said:

Is he on the run?

Not yet, but it may be on the horizon

[AxeElf 787]

It's been a while since we had a football player involved in a good slow chase in a Bronco...

[weepaws 3,197]

I’m thinking Escalade.