Minny at it again. Black man shot at traffic stop

[JustinCharge 2,397]

43 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

Why does dogsh1t deny facts over and over again? 

The radical left is all the same.  They are not here to engage in genuine conversation.

[dogcows 1,030]

32 minutes ago, tanatastic said:

The analysis, titled "A Public Health Crisis in the Making," found that although Black men and boys ages 15 to 34 make up just 2% of the nation's population, they were among 37% of gun homicides that year.

That's 20 times higher than white males of the same age group.

Of all reported firearm homicides in 2019

But your original statement was:

Quote

 

Black people, despite being a minority of the population are still far and away the leaders in gun violence in America. 

37% is not “the leaders in gun violence” despite being a minority. If you said, as a percentage of their particular group, then you would be right. But you didn’t.

[dogcows 1,030]

13 minutes ago, JustinCharge said:

The radical left is all the same.  They are not here to engage in genuine conversation.

If you think my viewpoints are indicative of the radical left, you’ve been inside your echo chamber far too long.

[IGotWorms 4,059]

32 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

you racist bigot

 

Somebody gets it

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,367]

20 minutes ago, dogcows said:

If you think my viewpoints are indicative of the radical left, you’ve been inside your echo chamber far too long.

you think Trump is a white nationalist who said good people on both sides, called all mexicans rapists and started an insurrection, thats certainly not a center left view point

thats irrational TDS

you probably also think Cops are hunting them blacks for sport

 

[Utilit99 4,099]

19 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Somebody gets it

You don't. 

[jerryskids 6,857]

1 hour ago, dogcows said:

No, I don’t have a lack of understanding of the scientific method. You do not like the limited scope of this study because you would rather that they expand the scope, or look at it from a different angle, or something.

Your own example disproves your argument. People had been studying the motion of the stars and planets for centuries. It took somebody hypothesizing that the earth might be orbiting the sun, then re-examining the data based on that assumption. If the data didn’t match, then the hypothesis would have been proven wrong. A hypothesis, tested through experiment. That’s the scientific method.

Perhaps you think the researchers should have studied something else. They laid out what they studied, why they studied it, and what the results were. You seem to be bothered by their choice of what to study, as you’ve not shown that any of their data is invalid. Nobody’s thumb was on any scale here.

These are the findings on this particular set of data, studying the “Risk of being killed by police use of force in the United States by age, race–ethnicity, and sex”. It doesn’t purport to answer every single question about police violence, crimes committed by race, or any of the other questions that might be related to it. These are the questions you want the answers to, but that’s not what the study is about. If you’d like to point out actual flaws in the data or conclusions drawn, feel free. However, your complaints to this point are that you think the scientists have a political point-of-view that you disagree with. Sorry, that doesn’t invalidate the findings.

 

I guess we can agree to disagree on the hypothesis of the study.  From an abstract which specifically names black people killed in police confrontations, and says it highlights the “racial character of police violence,” to a reference list which is majority sociological and has such scientific papers as “Living History of White Supremacist Policing,” I think the authors are being clear and are hoping that people like yourself will use it as a reference in a discussion about police being systemically racist.  You think otherwise.  That being said, if you truly think they are just providing numbers for us to interpret...

1 hour ago, dogcows said:

If you apply some BS criteria that YOU want, then you can get whatever result you want. 

... I am speechless.   

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,367]

2 hours ago, dogcows said:

But your original statement was:

37% is not “the leaders in gun violence” despite being a minority. If you said, as a percentage of their particular group, then you would be right. But you didn’t.

Ok let’s make it simple on you. Let’s only assume that black people age 15-34 commit all the black gun homicides

that’s 37%
every other culture makes up 63% again which is t true cause we know blacks not age 15-34 commit gun homicide 

let’s just say the rest are equally divided by all Hispanics and whites that gives them 31% each again by all ages

so 

37

31

31

that means that 2% makes up a vast amount of homicides

[Frozenbeernuts 2,270]

9 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

A ton? That’s not true. Stop acting like Newbie and Peenie with the hype. 

No there are definitely a lot of assh0le cops who abuse their power. I think its great that they are being held to a higher standard now. I dont agree with defunding the police though. I think overall most come to work to do their job and are decent people, but that still doesn't mean there can't be a lot of cops who take advantage of their spot. You know that cops can get away with most things normal citizens can't. Or at least they could until body cams came out.

While I dont get bent if a cop gives it to someone who probably deserves it, I know that if we let it slide, or even worse promote that behavior, they will use excessive force on people who do not deserve it

[Hardcore troubadour 15,518]

2 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

No there are definitely a lot of assh0le cops who abuse their power. I think its great that they are being held to a higher standard now. I dont agree with defunding the police though. I think overall most come to work to do their job and are decent people, but that still doesn't mean there can't be a lot of cops who take advantage of their spot. You know that cops can get away with most things normal citizens can't. Or at least they could until body cams came out.

While I dont get bent if a cop gives it to someone who probably deserves it, I know that if we let it slide, or even worse promote that behavior, they will use excessive force on people who do not deserve it

Plenty of cops have gone to prison and many others have been fired for a very long time. They were always held accountable. Not every time, but our justice system has always had it shortcomings. Many criminals walk as well. You just never paid attention. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,367]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/police-shoot-and-kill-alleged-carjacker-in-minneapolis-suburb-01618790570?siteid=yhoof2

buried in market watch

doesnt fit narrative 

[TBayXXXVII 2,559]

On 4/16/2021 at 6:20 PM, dogcows said:

Pretty sure I posted the entire study which included it all? I borrowed it from cdub.

It didn't.  It only covered non-fatal violent crimes.  The one I showed you, where it had 53 and 51% in 2016 and 2017 had ALL violent crimes.

[dogcows 1,030]

23 hours ago, jerryskids said:

I guess we can agree to disagree on the hypothesis of the study.  From an abstract which specifically names black people killed in police confrontations, and says it highlights the “racial character of police violence,” to a reference list which is majority sociological and has such scientific papers as “Living History of White Supremacist Policing,” I think the authors are being clear and are hoping that people like yourself will use it as a reference in a discussion about police being systemically racist.  You think otherwise.  That being said, if you truly think they are just providing numbers for us to interpret...

... I am speechless.   

They are providing numbers for you to interpret. Your choice is to read that they have a political point of view and throw the findings out entirely. Your choice, but again you’re not arguing with the findings... perhaps arguing the framing of the results, but that’s not a good reason to dump the whole thing.

[dogcows 1,030]

8 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

It didn't.  It only covered non-fatal violent crimes.  The one I showed you, where it had 53 and 51% in 2016 and 2017 had ALL violent crimes.

No it didn’t. I am looking at the source you posted right now. 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

First column is all, 2nd column is white ppl, 3rd column is black ppl.  Again, we all know that there is more crime in impoverished communities, and poverty is higher among black people. It’s no surprise that there is more crime. But why make up numbers to make it seem even worse than it is?

Violent crime4	404,236	236,590	151,744

[jerryskids 6,857]

5 minutes ago, dogcows said:

No it didn’t. I am looking at the source you posted right now. 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

First column is all, 2nd column is white ppl, 3rd column is black ppl.  Again, we all know that there is more crime in impoverished communities, and poverty is higher among black people. It’s no surprise that there is more crime. But why make up numbers to make it seem even worse than it is?

Violent crime4	404,236	236,590	151,744

This is at least twice now in this thread that you have attributed black violence to poverty, which I agree contributes but you seem to imply it is 100% of the explanation.  Since I don’t want to presume your stance, what percentage would you put on it?

For the record, I would attribute 1/3 equally to poverty, broken inner city black culture, and physiology.  Actually these days I would attribute a non-zero amount to liberal race baiters including the MSM goading them on to violence and noncompliance, but I don’t want to complicate things any further.

[TBayXXXVII 2,559]

29 minutes ago, dogcows said:

No it didn’t. I am looking at the source you posted right now. 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

First column is all, 2nd column is white ppl, 3rd column is black ppl.  Again, we all know that there is more crime in impoverished communities, and poverty is higher among black people. It’s no surprise that there is more crime. But why make up numbers to make it seem even worse than it is?

Violent crime4	404,236	236,590	151,744

Yeah, they're incorporating the other crimes as part of violent crimes.  It was the murder rate that was 53% (I rounded up from 52.6%.... see the second line of the chart).  My bad.   From now on, I'll make sure that I state that black people are responsible for approximately 53% of murders, and NOT "violent crimes".

Read further down though, to the Overview section.

• Of adults arrested for murder, 52.0 percent were Black or African American, 45.4 percent were White, and 2.6 percent were of other races.

• Black or African American juveniles comprised 52.0 percent of all juveniles arrested for violent crimes. White juveniles accounted for 58.4 percent of all juveniles arrested for property crimes.

[dogcows 1,030]

3 hours ago, jerryskids said:

This is at least twice now in this thread that you have attributed black violence to poverty, which I agree contributes but you seem to imply it is 100% of the explanation.  Since I don’t want to presume your stance, what percentage would you put on it?

For the record, I would attribute 1/3 equally to poverty, broken inner city black culture, and physiology.  Actually these days I would attribute a non-zero amount to liberal race baiters including the MSM goading them on to violence and noncompliance, but I don’t want to complicate things any further.

I was interested in the theories about why this is happening too. There are plenty, with poverty and culture among them, as well as segregated housing and other factors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States

One question: can you explain how you think physiology plays a role? 

[dogcows 1,030]

3 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Yeah, they're incorporating the other crimes as part of violent crimes.  It was the murder rate that was 53% (I rounded up from 52.6%.... see the second line of the chart).  My bad.   From now on, I'll make sure that I state that black people are responsible for approximately 53% of murders, and NOT "violent crimes".

Read further down though, to the Overview section.

• Of adults arrested for murder, 52.0 percent were Black or African American, 45.4 percent were White, and 2.6 percent were of other races.

• Black or African American juveniles comprised 52.0 percent of all juveniles arrested for violent crimes. White juveniles accounted for 58.4 percent of all juveniles arrested for property crimes.

Yes, if you are talking about homicide, then the numbers back you up. It actually got worse in 2019 with black people committing 55.9% of all murders.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,518]

Just now, dogcows said:

Yes, if you are talking about homicide, then the numbers back you up. It actually got worse in 2019 with black people committing 55.9% of all murders.

They like doing it. 

[dogcows 1,030]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

They like doing it. 

Save it for the KKK meeting

[Hardcore troubadour 15,518]

12 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Save it for the KKK meeting

? If they don’t like to kill, why do they do it? Stealing becisse you are poor doesn’t mean you have to kill anyone. Most of the murders have nothing to do with economics. Stealing, sure. Murder? It’s not necessary.  

[jerryskids 6,857]

1 hour ago, dogcows said:

I was interested in the theories about why this is happening too. There are plenty, with poverty and culture among them, as well as segregated housing and other factors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States

One question: can you explain how you think physiology plays a role? 

By physiological I mean nature vs. nurture, including things like genetics which are fixed and brain chemistry, frontal lobe development, etc. which can potentially be influenced by environment as well (e.g., hormones in uterus at key development points).  I may have missed it as I didn’t completely scour your link, but I missed where such things were even considered, perhaps you can point them out to me?

[KSB2424 3,148]

51 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

? If they don’t like to kill, why do they do it? Stealing becisse you are poor doesn’t mean you have to kill anyone. Most of the murders have nothing to do with economics. Stealing, sure. Murder? It’s not necessary.  

Well, to be fair, it's not that simple.  Poor people are generally less educated, commit more crimes, do more drugs and have less than ideal home scenarios.  Murder eventually comes with the territory more than not being in those situations.   

To your point though....the stats do speak for themselves.  There has to be something there.

I mention absent fathers and hip hop culture (money, tricks, drugs and hoe's are cool) and people roll their eyes.  Which is fine, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong.  

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 hour ago, dogcows said:

Save it for the KKK meeting

So your democrat leaders who created the kkk will all be there to listen?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,518]

2 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Well, to be fair, it's not that simple.  Poor people are generally less educated, commit more crimes, do more drugs and have less than ideal home scenarios.  Murder eventually comes with the territory more than not being in those situations.   

To your point though....the stats do speak for themselves.  There has to be something there.

I mention absent fathers and hip hop culture (money, tricks, drugs and hoe's are cool) and people roll their eyes.  Which is fine, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong.  

 Nothing is that simple, of course. But if a group of people keep doing something, you have to draw the conclusion they like to do it. It’s more than survival when it’s not necessary for survival. When the murder rate dropped in NYC do you think drug dealing stopped? It didn’t. They still made plenty of money.  But they had to stop, because it was bad for business. The bosses told them to knock it off. It was a choice. But if it didn’t bring heat, they would still do it.  Because they like it. Look at Chicago. Why do they keep killing like they do? No consequence and they enjoy it. Deny it if you want, but it’s true.  Obviously. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

 Nothing is that simple, of course. But if a group of people keep doing something, you have to draw the conclusion they like to do it. It’s more than survival when it’s not necessary for survival. When the murder rate dropped in NYC do you think drug dealing stopped? It didn’t. They still made plenty of money.  But they had to stop, because it was bad for business. The bosses told them to knock it off. It was a choice. But if it didn’t bring heat, they would still do it.  Because they like it. Look at Chicago. Why do they keep killing like they do? No consequence and they enjoy it. Deny it if you want, but it’s true.  Obviously. 

Or rather, it's simply their long standing culture.

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,518]

2 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

Or rather, it's simply their long standing culture.

 

What the fock did she build? A banana split? A double cheeseburger? 

[dogcows 1,030]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

By physiological I mean nature vs. nurture, including things like genetics which are fixed and brain chemistry, frontal lobe development, etc. which can potentially be influenced by environment as well (e.g., hormones in uterus at key development points).  I may have missed it as I didn’t completely scour your link, but I missed where such things were even considered, perhaps you can point them out to me?

Are you saying you think black people are genetically predisposed to murder? Yeah, nobody put forward anything even close to that in the article I linked. 

[dogcows 1,030]

1 hour ago, KSB2424 said:

Well, to be fair, it's not that simple.  Poor people are generally less educated, commit more crimes, do more drugs and have less than ideal home scenarios.  Murder eventually comes with the territory more than not being in those situations.   

To your point though....the stats do speak for themselves.  There has to be something there.

I mention absent fathers and hip hop culture (money, tricks, drugs and hoe's are cool) and people roll their eyes.  Which is fine, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong.  

How about a history of mistreatment? There are still plenty of black people alive today who started life in a society where they were excluded from certain housing, jobs, even drinking fountains by law. That doesn’t fix itself in one generation. Could be a factor too.

[KSB2424 3,148]

13 minutes ago, dogcows said:

How about a history of mistreatment? There are still plenty of black people alive today who started life in a society where they were excluded from certain housing, jobs, even drinking fountains by law. That doesn’t fix itself in one generation. Could be a factor too.

Dude (or Dudette)  it's 2021.  Systemic Racism died in the mid 1960's.  To your post, yes there are 90 year old's who lived back then and actually remember it,  but are you really using those Americans as an example? 

It's been at least two generations (three by definition i.e. 20 years) since then.  

Let me ask you a question. What is dogcows or Newbies or whomever you are is Statue of Limitations on blaming the past that was over 60 years ago for current indiscretion's?  Is it three generations?  Is it four?  Is it forever?  At what point does personal responsibility finally factor?  

I'll hang up and listen. 

[jerryskids 6,857]

1 hour ago, dogcows said:

Are you saying you think black people are genetically predisposed to murder? Yeah, nobody put forward anything even close to that in the article I linked. 

I’m saying it could be a factor.  You are an expert in science though, so I’m sure you realize that we should not look into it.  It’s like the sun revolving around the earth; we all know it is true so why question it?  I mean, we have some pretty compelling statistics, but if we look into it and find that we are wrong, the church will be very upset.  And we can’t have that.

I fully realize that for people like.you, your brain lacks the synaptic connections to have this discussion.  The entire time you are reading it you are saying “man, this is racist$#@!:  I would explain that knowledge is the path to improvement, but you wouldn’t get it.  Carry on.   

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 hour ago, dogcows said:

Are you saying you think black people are genetically predisposed to murder? Yeah, nobody put forward anything even close to that in the article I linked. 

It's their cultural disposition. You must remember, black people in africa captured and enslaved them and sold them out to the highest bidders. It's what they are still doing to this day. They just call it 'human trafficking" instead of slavery. 

This shlt goes back hundreds and hundreds of years. 

Let me ask you a question? How many white people in the civil war gave up their lives, their limbs, their everything to free black people in this country from the democrats who enslaved them and are now feeling guilty for it?

[Voltaire 5,322]

6 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

What the fock did she build? A banana split? A double cheeseburger? 

I dunno, but she built it in Tulsa and somebody dropped bombs on it. Then she tried again in Rosewood and somebody slaughtered ‘us’.

 I remember bombs in Oklahoma City, not Tulsa but I digress. 

Anyway, I condemn the Tulsa bomb droppers and the Rosewood slaughterers and I urge whoever is dropping bombs in Tulsa and slaughtering people in Rosewood to please stop. Now, if she wants to bomb Minneapolis and slaughter people there, I would hope she wouldn’t, but I bought popcorn just in case.

[Voltaire 5,322]

6 hours ago, Utilit99 said:

Or rather, it's simply their long standing culture.

 

If you want to get into the football hall of fame, put down the Molotov and work on your lateral movement.

[TBayXXXVII 2,559]

Crime/violence is NOT a part of the historical culture of black people, it's the current culture of black people.  Back in the slavery era, black people were very respectful to each other.  You can draw any reasoning from it that you wish, but it doesn't change the fact that they were very civil... probably more civil than white people during that time period.  While segregation existed, black people had an extremely low unemployment rate, very low crime rate, very high rate of two-parent households, high levels of education, and overall were rather successful.  What changed was they started listening to Democrats.  It's not a coincidence that the moment that black people started aligning themselves with the Democrat party, that their culture changed.  Black people bought into the idea that they could get government money (welfare), instead of working.  They bought into the idea that Republican's hated them (even though history proves the opposite - Dems were the slave owners and KKK originators).

Even more evidence... hip hop music (gangster rap), started in the 70's in NYC.  What political party controlled NYC in the 50's, 60's, and 70's that these people grew up under... which influenced the music?  The genre took root in all the major cities nation-wide.  Why?  Because black people - post Civil Rights Act, lived in the major cities (monopolized by Democrats), and experienced the very thing that the NYC product depicted.  How is that any different today?  It's not.  Black people centralize in major cities which now have as much as 70 to 80 years of monopolization of local government.  The bulk of the claims of systemic racism come from the same places.  The bulk of the crime comes from the same places.  The bulk of the poverty comes from the same places.  It's not a coincidence, it's a direct correlation.  

Historically, black people are no different than white people from a family-oriented culture.  The problem is that they started believing in the party that fought FOR slavery and started the KKK.  When they stop aligning themselves with Democrats, their fortunes will change.

[Fireballer 2,644]

12 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

 When they stop aligning themselves with Democrats, their fortunes will change.

And, they are continuing to vote Dem while the Dems are openly making them 2nd rate minorities.  Dems will give zero fuks about black people if they can secure enough of votes from other minorities they're packing in the country.  

[dogcows 1,030]

10 hours ago, jerryskids said:

I’m saying it could be a factor.  You are an expert in science though, so I’m sure you realize that we should not look into it.  It’s like the sun revolving around the earth; we all know it is true so why question it?  I mean, we have some pretty compelling statistics, but if we look into it and find that we are wrong, the church will be very upset.  And we can’t have that.

I fully realize that for people like.you, your brain lacks the synaptic connections to have this discussion.  The entire time you are reading it you are saying “man, this is racist$#@!:  I would explain that knowledge is the path to improvement, but you wouldn’t get it.  Carry on.   

This is LITERALLY the stuff the Nazis believed.

This discussion has been had, many decades ago, and studied and shown to be completely false, and I thought it died with the Third Reich. People like me definitely aren’t going to be fooled into believing in the master race; you’re right my brain doesn’t fire in a way stupid enough to believe that. This is Nazi-level racist . Period. Black people aren’t genetically predisposed to committing crime, and even suggesting it shows all that anybody needs to know about you. Nice of you to pretend to be reasonable for a while, but you’re flying that freak flag high now, for all to see.

[dogcows 1,030]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Crime/violence is NOT a part of the historical culture of black people, it's the current culture of black people.  Back in the slavery era, black people were very respectful to each other.  You can draw any reasoning from it that you wish, but it doesn't change the fact that they were very civil... probably more civil than white people during that time period.  While segregation existed, black people had an extremely low unemployment rate, very low crime rate, very high rate of two-parent households, high levels of education, and overall were rather successful.  What changed was they started listening to Democrats.  It's not a coincidence that the moment that black people started aligning themselves with the Democrat party, that their culture changed.  Black people bought into the idea that they could get government money (welfare), instead of working.  They bought into the idea that Republican's hated them (even though history proves the opposite - Dems were the slave owners and KKK originators).

Even more evidence... hip hop music (gangster rap), started in the 70's in NYC.  What political party controlled NYC in the 50's, 60's, and 70's that these people grew up under... which influenced the music?  The genre took root in all the major cities nation-wide.  Why?  Because black people - post Civil Rights Act, lived in the major cities (monopolized by Democrats), and experienced the very thing that the NYC product depicted.  How is that any different today?  It's not.  Black people centralize in major cities which now have as much as 70 to 80 years of monopolization of local government.  The bulk of the claims of systemic racism come from the same places.  The bulk of the crime comes from the same places.  The bulk of the poverty comes from the same places.  It's not a coincidence, it's a direct correlation.  

Historically, black people are no different than white people from a family-oriented culture.  The problem is that they started believing in the party that fought FOR slavery and started the KKK.  When they stop aligning themselves with Democrats, their fortunes will change.

I’m not sure if it’s the democrats’ fault, but I agree black people and white people aren’t very different at all. 
 

As for the history of the Democrats and Republicans, try to look at it a bit more honestly. The anti-segregation Dems all flipped to GOP when LBJ embraced civil rights. They haven’t flipped back yet. The Democrats should rightfully be ashamed of their history. However, Republicans should be ashamed of theirs too.

[RLLD 4,256]

I am glad there are people around to worry about being ashamed about stuff for us, it's nice to be free to focus on meeting the needs and challenges of today while others cry about the past. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,518]

1 hour ago, Fireballer said:

And, they are continuing to vote Dem while the Dems are openly making them 2nd rate minorities.  Dems will give zero fuks about black people if they can secure enough of votes from other minorities they're packing in the country.  

Yup. Blacks have been moving up economically at a brisk pace the last 30 years. And we all know what happens when people do that. Look at the Irish, once an overwhelmingly democrat voting block. 50-50 at best now. Paying taxes and property tax tends to turn people away from the party that keeps rising them and giving it away.  They need a new floor of poor.