Minny at it again. Black man shot at traffic stop

[5-Points 2,731]

36 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Gun violence is a problem regardless of skin color. Too bad nobody will ever take on the NRA. We’ve got more guns than people in America… that’s nuts.

There's no such thing as gun violence. Guns are not and cannot be violent. 

The fact that we have so many firearms in America and such relatively few instances of criminal misuse of those firearms is proof that firearms aren't the problem. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

2 hours ago, dogcows said:

Gun violence is a problem regardless of skin color. Too bad nobody will ever take on the NRA. We’ve got more guns than people in America… that’s nuts.

So what you are saying is, if we put two loaded guns on a table in a locked room, only one will come out in one piece?

[jerryskids 5,206]

2 hours ago, dogcows said:

Sure, here’s a recent scientific research article about it.

 https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

Summary of risk of “death by cop” by race:

 

As I thought, a political narrative masked as science.

Quote

Policing plays a key role in maintaining structural inequalities between people of color and white people in the United States

Unless I missed it, that entire article somehow omitted little details like... well, how many violent crimes per capita do they commit?  I mean, if that is higher, one might expect a relatively higher number of violent encounters with police.  It concludes that black men are roughly 2.5x more likely to be killed by police than white men, how does that compare to your (non-fatal, teehee, wouldn’t want to include murders) violent crime data?

Also that is why I asked for black UNARMED police encounters.  According to you there is a killing spree over air fresheners.  I think that would be a better comparison.

HTH.   

[Gladiators 1,904]

7 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

So what you are saying is, if we put two loaded guns on a table in a locked room, only one will come out in one piece?

[dogcows 1,029]

13 hours ago, jerryskids said:

As I thought, a political narrative masked as science.

Unless I missed it, that entire article somehow omitted little details like... well, how many violent crimes per capita do they commit?  I mean, if that is higher, one might expect a relatively higher number of violent encounters with police.  It concludes that black men are roughly 2.5x more likely to be killed by police than white men, how does that compare to your (non-fatal, teehee, wouldn’t want to include murders) violent crime data?

Also that is why I asked for black UNARMED police encounters.  According to you there is a killing spree over air fresheners.  I think that would be a better comparison.

HTH.   

That study investigated questions other than the ones you asked. I’m sure there are studies that take on the questions you are asking though. Take the study for what it actually covered, and look at the data.

Your points are valid ones, but not part of that particular study. We can look at that data plus the other data you mention to try and get a fuller picture. You are trying to get at the reasons WHY black men are 2.5x more likely to be killed by cops. The study didn’t get into that... only verifying that it is more likely. They’re leaving it up to the policy makers to react to the information.

[dogcows 1,029]

15 hours ago, 5-Points said:

There's no such thing as gun violence. Guns are not and cannot be violent. 

The fact that we have so many firearms in America and such relatively few instances of criminal misuse of those firearms is proof that firearms aren't the problem. 

Actually, compared to other countries, America has very a high rate of deaths due to gun violence.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country

[jerryskids 5,206]

7 minutes ago, dogcows said:

That study investigated questions other than the ones you asked. I’m sure there are studies that take on the questions you are asking though. Take the study for what it actually covered, and look at the data.

Your points are valid ones, but not part of that particular study. We can look at that data plus the other data you mention to try and get a fuller picture. You are trying to get at the reasons WHY black men are 2.5x more likely to be killed by cops. The study didn’t get into that... only verifying that it is more likely. They’re leaving it up to the policy makers to react to the information.

I argue that it is not a “study,” it is a SJW narrative which misrepresented statistics to draw the conclusion it wanted.  Hell, there is no way a rational person could read that drivel and conclude otherwise.

The data track very well with your earlier link about violent crimes:  Latinos are between the two, and Asians are the least killed (and least violent).  Except maybe Native Americans, I don’t recall that group in your link.  Also off the top of my head, I recalled that blacks (or black men) were 5-6 times more likely to commit a violent (non-fatal) crime vs. whites.  But feel free to post that link again if you have it handy and let’s take a look, I’m open to being wrong.   

[5-Points 2,731]

10 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Actually, compared to other countries, America has very a high rate of deaths due to gun violence.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country

From your link: "More than two-thirds of gun deaths in the US are suicides."

That would mean that 1/3 are homicide. Now, if we want to be honest, we know where 90% (estimated) of those homicides occur. 

So, once again, we don't have a gun problem. We have a people problem. 

[dogcows 1,029]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

I argue that it is not a “study,” it is a SJW narrative which misrepresented statistics to draw the conclusion it wanted.  Hell, there is no way a rational person could read that drivel and conclude otherwise.

The data track very well with your earlier link about violent crimes:  Latinos are between the two, and Asians are the least killed (and least violent).  Except maybe Native Americans, I don’t recall that group in your link.  Also off the top of my head, I recalled that blacks (or black men) were 5-6 times more likely to commit a violent (non-fatal) crime vs. whites.  But feel free to post that link again if you have it handy and let’s take a look, I’m open to being wrong.   

What evidence do you have that the people doing the study are pushing a SJW narrative? They are published in a scientific journal, not some political magazine. They cover a subset of data and they listed all of their methods and data publicly if anybody wants to recreate the study for themselves, as any peer-reviewed study should.

You are using data from outside the study to come to conclusions. I don’t have a problem with that. But there’s no need to on the study. It’s presenting facts; it makes sense that you look at other facts at well to come to your own conclusions. 

 

Just now, 5-Points said:

From your link: "More than two-thirds of gun deaths in the US are suicides."

That would mean that 1/3 are homicide. Now, if we want to be honest, we know where 90% (estimated) of those homicides occur. 

So, once again, we don't have a gun problem. We have a people problem. 

Yes, our people problem: too many people getting in the way of the bullets. Can’t we let our 300+ million guns shoot freely?

[5-Points 2,731]

8 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Yes, our people problem: too many people getting in the way of the bullets. Can’t we let our 300+ million guns shoot freely?

Gun thrown.

[jerryskids 5,206]

25 minutes ago, dogcows said:

What evidence do you have that the people doing the study are pushing a SJW narrative? They are published in a scientific journal, not some political magazine. They cover a subset of data and they listed all of their methods and data publicly if anybody wants to recreate the study for themselves, as any peer-reviewed study should.

You are using data from outside the study to come to conclusions. I don’t have a problem with that. But there’s no need to on the study. It’s presenting facts; it makes sense that you look at other facts at well to come to your own conclusions. 

Well, there is this “scientific” paragraph:

Quote

Violent encounters with the police have profound effects on health, neighborhoods, life chances, and politics (1⇓⇓⇓⇓⇓⇓⇓–9). Policing plays a key role in maintaining structural inequalities between people of color and white people in the United States (1, 10). The killings of Oscar Grant, Michael Brown, Charleena Lyles, Stephon Clark, and Tamir Rice, among many others, and the protests that followed have brought sustained national attention to the racialized character of police violence against civilians (11). Social scientists and public health scholars now widely acknowledge that police contact is a key vector of health inequality (3, 6) and is an important cause of early mortality for people of color (12).

So yes, I am using data from outside of their study to draw another, more informed conclusion.  And words like the above, along with the way they chose to structure the data, lead me to believe that it was a conclusion looking for corroborating data.

At least you admit as much, or seem to in your posts defending the study, which I appreciate.   

[Fireballer 2,383]

28 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

Gun thrown.

Along with the purse

[5-Points 2,731]

7 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Along with the purse

 

[listen2me 23 1,544]

16 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

"Police use of force accounts for 0.05% of all male deaths in the United States and 0.003% of all female deaths"

Why are women killed at a much less rate than men?   Wouldnt that be a sexist phenomenon going on?   Cops disproportionately killing men compared to women?

Still looking for some help on this one.  

Why are the cops targeting men much more than women when using lethal force? 

[bostonlager 2,465]

15 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Still looking for some help on this one.  

Why are the cops targeting men much more than women when using lethal force? 

The answer to your question hurts feelings. 

[listen2me 23 1,544]

21 minutes ago, bostonlager said:

The answer to your question hurts feelings. 

I just think the cops are sexist towards men.  

One of the many privileges to being a woman.  You get to not be murdered by cops.  

[DonS 3,067]

36 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

I just think the cops are sexist towards men.  

One of the many privileges to being a woman.  You get to not be murdered by cops.  

Though if they shoot a white woman then that "Karen" probably deserved it anyways.

[tanatastic 2,061]

On 4/16/2021 at 3:35 PM, dogcows said:

By percentage of their respective racial groups, no. But in absolute numbers, yes…. White people are the majority so white people + cops comprise a majority of gun violence in America.

This is one of the most wrong things I’ve ever seen here. Black people, despite being a minority of the population are still far and away the leaders in gun violence in America. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 hour ago, tanatastic said:

This is one of the most wrong things I’ve ever seen here. Black people, despite being a minority of the population are still far and away the leaders in gun violence in America. 

No doubt. 

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

On 4/13/2021 at 10:04 AM, lod001 said:

I gotta believe she doesn't shoot if he actually was sensible and complied with orders. Anyone want to dispute that?

When you see sh1t like this, you should never fault an officer when someone DOES NOT COMPLY. They should have free reign to fock these idiots up.

https://dailycaller.com/2021/04/11/new-mexico-darian-jarrott-killed-shooting-traffic-stop/

 

They should not have free reign. You give the cops the power to do that and they will abuse that power. There are a ton of cops out there who already take advantage of authority.

I do agree though that this is the quintessential You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes situation.

[dogcows 1,029]

10 hours ago, tanatastic said:

This is one of the most wrong things I’ve ever seen here. Black people, despite being a minority of the population are still far and away the leaders in gun violence in America. 

Do you have a source to back up this claim? FBI crime statistics seem to say otherwise. (Document is in this thread) Seems like your personal bias is showing.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

1 hour ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

They should not have free reign. You give the cops the power to do that and they will abuse that power. There are a ton of cops out there who already take advantage of authority.

I do agree though that this is the quintessential You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes situation.

A ton? That’s not true. Stop acting like Newbie and Peenie with the hype. 

[KSB2424 3,083]

Everything is based on race. It’s crazy.  

[dogcows 1,029]

22 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Well, there is this “scientific” paragraph:

So yes, I am using data from outside of their study to draw another, more informed conclusion.  And words like the above, along with the way they chose to structure the data, lead me to believe that it was a conclusion looking for corroborating data.

At least you admit as much, or seem to in your posts defending the study, which I appreciate.   

They definitely looked at a certain issue that they care about from their point of view. But it doesn’t invalidate the findings. I agree - look at other studies too. Any study will have bias going into it. That’s the scientific method: you make a hypothesis, then run a study to get the evidence that proves or disproves your hypothesis.

I don’t think anybody is arguing that these results are fake, but one can argue they are framed by people with a specific point of view.

As I see it, there are 2 general opinions on why we see these results. 1) It’s because black people are more likely to be criminals or 2) Police target black people disproportionately.

Given that poverty is more prevalent among black people, and that crime is more prevalent within impoverished communities, I’d say number 1 is part of the story. However, number 2 is part of it as well. Number 2 is a lot easier to solve than number 1 IMHO so why not start with that? Fixing poverty is much harder. Even Jesus said “The poor you will always have with you.”

 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

4 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Everything is based on race. It’s crazy.  

Fock it. Let’s do it. 

[dogcows 1,029]

17 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

A ton? That’s not true. Stop acting like Newbie and Peenie with the hype. 

Average weight of a cop is probably about 200 lbs. Are you saying there aren’t at least 10 cops who take advantage? 

[Fireballer 2,383]

6 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Everything is based on race. It’s crazy.  

That's fukin hilarious

[jerryskids 5,206]

51 minutes ago, dogcows said:

They definitely looked at a certain issue that they care about from their point of view. But it doesn’t invalidate the findings. I agree - look at other studies too. Any study will have bias going into it. That’s the scientific method: you make a hypothesis, then run a study to get the evidence that proves or disproves your hypothesis.

I don’t think anybody is arguing that these results are fake, but one can argue they are framed by people with a specific point of view.

As I see it, there are 2 general opinions on why we see these results. 1) It’s because black people are more likely to be criminals or 2) Police target black people disproportionately.

Given that poverty is more prevalent among black people, and that crime is more prevalent within impoverished communities, I’d say number 1 is part of the story. However, number 2 is part of it as well. Number 2 is a lot easier to solve than number 1 IMHO so why not start with that? Fixing poverty is much harder. Even Jesus said “The poor you will always have with you.”

 

You have a fundamental lack of understanding of science.  Your “scientific method” is the liberal “let’s arrange the climate change data to meet our preconceived conclusion” approach.  That is NOT science.  Testing a hypothesis does NOT mean putting your thumb on the scale.  The entire idea behind scientific experiments is to eliminate bias — double blind experiments, etc.  With your definition of science the earth would still be flat and the sun would revolve around it.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

On 4/15/2021 at 5:53 PM, Gladiators said:

Wow. This might be the most racist thing I’ve ever seen.

Yeah that’s about how I feel every time it comes out of your mouth

Or any of these other iterations. E.g. “it’s just stats” or “it’s SCIENCE!” or whatever. All racist neo nazi propaganda. You guys mostly don’t *know* that it is, but you also don’t really care.

[dogcows 1,029]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

You have a fundamental lack of understanding of science.  Your “scientific method” is the liberal “let’s arrange the climate change data to meet our preconceived conclusion” approach.  That is NOT science.  Testing a hypothesis does NOT mean putting your thumb on the scale.  The entire idea behind scientific experiments is to eliminate bias — double blind experiments, etc.  With your definition of science the earth would still be flat and the sun would revolve around it.

No, I don’t have a lack of understanding of the scientific method. You do not like the limited scope of this study because you would rather that they expand the scope, or look at it from a different angle, or something.

Your own example disproves your argument. People had been studying the motion of the stars and planets for centuries. It took somebody hypothesizing that the earth might be orbiting the sun, then re-examining the data based on that assumption. If the data didn’t match, then the hypothesis would have been proven wrong. A hypothesis, tested through experiment. That’s the scientific method.

Perhaps you think the researchers should have studied something else. They laid out what they studied, why they studied it, and what the results were. You seem to be bothered by their choice of what to study, as you’ve not shown that any of their data is invalid. Nobody’s thumb was on any scale here.

These are the findings on this particular set of data, studying the “Risk of being killed by police use of force in the United States by age, race–ethnicity, and sex”. It doesn’t purport to answer every single question about police violence, crimes committed by race, or any of the other questions that might be related to it. These are the questions you want the answers to, but that’s not what the study is about. If you’d like to point out actual flaws in the data or conclusions drawn, feel free. However, your complaints to this point are that you think the scientists have a political point-of-view that you disagree with. Sorry, that doesn’t invalidate the findings.

 

[Cdub100 3,381]

Why does dogsh1t deny facts over and over again? 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,586]

On 4/17/2021 at 7:48 AM, dogcows said:

Actually, compared to other countries, America has very a high rate of deaths due to gun violence.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country

any gun violence story that includes suicides is invalid

 

[dogcows 1,029]

1 minute ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

any gun violence story that includes suicides is invalid

 

Thanks for offering your arbitrary criteria for what you personally consider to be valid. 🗑

[Cdub100 3,381]

On 4/17/2021 at 10:48 AM, dogcows said:

Actually, compared to other countries, America has very a high rate of deaths due to gun violence.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country

I find it interesting if you take the population makeup and make the comparison the US moves into the top 5 safest. But we aren't allowed to talk about that.

[dogcows 1,029]

Just now, Cdub100 said:

I find it interesting if you take the population makeup and make the comparison the US moves into the top 5 safest. But we aren't allowed to talk about that.

If you apply some BS criteria that YOU want, then you can get whatever result you want. 

[Cdub100 3,381]

Just now, dogcows said:

If you apply some BS criteria that YOU want, then you can get whatever result you want. 

If you want to compare the US to other countries you need to do it right. You can't compare the US to Zimbabwe without some criteria. 

That being said it's sad I can fix gun violence one simple way.

[dogcows 1,029]

6 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

If you want to compare the US to other countries you need to do it right. You can't compare the US to Zimbabwe without some criteria. 

That being said it's sad I can fix gun violence one simple way.

So, please tell everybody the “right” way to compare.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,586]

13 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Thanks for offering your arbitrary criteria for what you personally consider to be valid. 🗑

its completely valid, the highest suicide rate in the world has no guns in the country

if you wanna kill yourself the weapon of choice has zero bearing on it

 

[tanatastic 2,061]

4 hours ago, dogcows said:

Do you have a source to back up this claim? FBI crime statistics seem to say otherwise. (Document is in this thread) Seems like your personal bias is showing.

Yes I can link a hundred sources. Here’s just 1

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-by-raceethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel={"colId":"Location","sort":"asc"}

Columns show by state, black is highest is every state and usually drastically.

Bonus excerpt from 2019

The analysis, titled "A Public Health Crisis in the Making," found that although Black men and boys ages 15 to 34 make up just 2% of the nation's population, they were among 37% of gun homicides that year.

That's 20 times higher than white males of the same age group.

Of all reported firearm homicides in 2019

Can link infinity more sources if needed.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,586]

13 minutes ago, tanatastic said:

Yes I can link a hundred sources. Here’s just 1

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-by-raceethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel={"colId":"Location","sort":"asc"}

Columns show by state, black is highest is every state and usually drastically.

Bonus excerpt from 2019

The analysis, titled "A Public Health Crisis in the Making," found that although Black men and boys ages 15 to 34 make up just 2% of the nation's population, they were among 37% of gun homicides that year.

That's 20 times higher than white males of the same age group.

Of all reported firearm homicides in 2019

Can link infinity more sources if needed.

you racist bigot