Is Tom Brady really the G.O.A.T. ? Greatest ? All-time ?

[kozmiq 70]

Or is it Muhammad Ali ?

Or maybe Babe Ruth.

Bill Russell won more Titles.  Kareem ?

Sh!t, Sammy Baugh won a few titles AND one year, he led the NFL in Passing AND Interceptions AND highest Punting average all in the same mofo year.

There can't be any others worthy of consideration.  

Greatest.  All-time.

[Utilit99 4,099]

Yes Brady is the GOAT.

[Gepetto 991]

All sports would make it Michael Jordan.  Way more impactful, better, more clutch, more determined, better. 

[jerryskids 5,248]

2 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

All sports would make it Michael Jordan.  Way more impactful, better, more clutch, more determined, better. 

Jordan is a good one.  IMO a lot needs to go into the formula:  dominance at the time, at his position (relative to others), importance of position, championships, importance of the sport (i.e., Russian wrestler who went 16 years and 4 Olympics undefeated, who cares).

Gretzky -- untouchable records, championships, hell they called him "the great one"

Rice -- I used to consider him the GOAT in football because no WR dominated like him, nor anyone at his position, but I'd put Brady over him now due to the significance of the position.

Baseball is tough, but I've often said Rickey Henderson was the most dominant, fear-inducing, game-changing leadoff man by a mile and it isn't close.  Ruth of course, plus he pitched initially.

[wiffleball 4,655]

I'm putting in my vote for her. Amazing. 

 

As I recall, she wants got out of surgery and won a golf tournament with her colostomy bag still attached. 

 

Never gets enough credit.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Didrikson_Zaharias

[Djgb13 2,338]

Greatest athlete? Bo Jackson

Greatest football player? Tom Brady

Greatest sports player? Up for debate 

[Baker Boy 1,490]

13 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

All sports would make it Michael Jordan.  Way more impactful, better, more clutch, more determined, better. 

Secretariat

[Hardcore troubadour 12,774]

Ruth. No debate. He hit more homeruns than some teams did.  If there was a cy young award back then he would have won one of those too.  

[wiffleball 4,655]

It's one of things that I hate about Americans in this regard. You can say yeah he's pretty good, then it was he's great, now it's got to be he's the greatest of all time!

It's a Preposterous notion in most professional sports. It's certainly in the NFL. Tom Brady was smart enough to be the first to take advantage of the new rules.

 

It doesn't mean that he would be nearly as successful as if he were a quarterback in the Johnny Unitas era. Or the Terry Bradshaw era.

 

I'm not hating on the guy at all. He's a freak of nature mentally. Dude is a freaking supercomputer. Love he came from being drafted 199. But I just hate the entire concept of goat being the new standard.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

Jordan is a good case but, man, 7 super bowl rings, 10 super bowl appearances, the gap between him and anyone else in terms of perhaps the most basic stat is massive.

[posty 2,302]

Wayne Gretzky

[wiffleball 4,655]

3 minutes ago, JustinCharge said:

Jordan is a good case but, man, 7 super bowl rings, 10 super bowl appearances, the gap between him and anyone else in terms of perhaps the most basic stat is massive.

So, put TB in Detroit 20 years ago...

[MTSkiBum 1,598]

Michael Phelps has more gold medals than the next person has total olympic medals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_multiple_Olympic_medalists

 

[lod001 1,239]

Nope. Put him in the NFL in the 70s or 80s and he doesn't survive this.

 

[TommyGavin 790]

Eli beat TB12 twice. 

[Gladiators 1,906]

4 minutes ago, TommyGavin said:

Eli beat TB12 twice. 

Yeah, this is enough to immediately disqualify him.

[taco breath 419]

how many threads do we need on this?

[posty 2,302]

37 minutes ago, TommyGavin said:

Eli beat TB12 twice. 

Even a broken clock is right twice a day...

[edjr 5,598]

Biden is

[Mike Honcho 4,056]

If Tom Brady was so great how come he couldn't beat out Drew Bledsoe for the job---only got cause the BETTER QB got injured. 

[edjr 5,598]

Rittenhouse is the true GOAT

[edjr 5,598]

3 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

If Tom Brady was so great how come he couldn't beat out Drew Bledsoe for the job---only got cause the BETTER QB got injured. 

if he was so great why was he passed on 198 times in the draft?

[Mike Honcho 4,056]

1 minute ago, edjr said:

if he was so great why was he passed on 198 times in the draft?

Exactly!

[kozmiq 70]

His team won 7 titles, not him alone.

Worse, his team was CAUGHT cheating 3 times and one of them was his doing personally (deflate gate).

I'm voting Muhammad Ali.

[TBayXXXVII 2,145]

18 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

If there was a cy young award back then he would have won one of those too.

I think this gets over stated sometimes, just because he was one of the leagues best pitchers.  But if you take the year that he did his best, 1916, where he had 23 wins with a 1.75 ERA, Walter Johnson had a better year.  Johnson had more wins, more strikeouts, less walks, a better ERA+, more complete games, and more innings pitched... and the only reason why he had only 25 wins, was because he played on a substantially worse team than Ruth.  Had Johnson played for the Red Sox that year, he probably would've had close to, if not exceeded 40 wins.

He'd certainly have gotten votes, but I don't think he'd have won.

[Utilit99 4,099]

Feats in hockey that will never be broken. The number 6 below stat is focking crazy. 

...if you took away all of Gretzky’s 894 NHL goals, he would still be the NHL’s all-time leading scorer. Mark Messier, Gretzky’s longtime friend and teammate with both the Edmonton Oilers and New York Rangers, is second all-time in points with 1,887.

Of course, all of them are nuts. 

10. Most Art Ross Trophies in a Career (10)

Winning the Art Ross Trophy as the NHL’s leading point scorer in a single season is a highlight in any player’s career. Well, Gretzky led the league in points for half of his career.

In each of the years that Gretzky won the award, he amassed at least 130 points during the season. The Great One averaged 195.5 points per season in the years that he was the recipient of the Art Ross Trophy.

9. Most Goals in a Season (92)

In the 1981-82 season, Gretzky broke Phil Esposito’s record for goals in a season by amassing 92 over 80 games. Based on the numbers that today’s superstars put up, the record is safe for the time being.

Steven Stamkos had a great season with the Tampa Bay Lightning last year, reaching the 60-goal plateau for the first time in his career. However, if Stamkos were to match Gretzky’s single-season record, the Lightning forward would need to average another 0.42 goals per game throughout the course of the season.

8. Most Assists in a Season (163)

Even for Gretzky, 163 assists was over the top, considering his second-highest assist total in any campaign was 135. Here’s a stat to put Wayne’s 163 assists — which came in the 1985-86 season — into perspective: the player who finished that year second in points, the Penguins’ Mario Lemieux, recorded 141 points.

With today’s leading point scorers averaging anywhere between 100-110 points in a single year, amassing 163 assists is more than just a lofty goal.

7. Most Professional Goals in a Career (1,072)

Many of the records that Gretzky broke throughout his illustrious career were set by his boyhood idol, Gordie Howe. The Great One’s last NHL goal in 1999 broke a tie that he had with “Mr. Hockey.”

Gretzky’s 1,072 professional goals factor in his goals from the NHL regular season, the NHL playoffs, the WHA regular season, and the WHA playoffs. With nobody in striking distance of Wayne’s NHL regular season record of 894 goals, topping 1,072 in a career will also be a tough feat to accomplish.

6. Most Assists in a Career (1,963)

In baseball, a telling stat about Hank Aaron’s greatness is that if you took away all of his 755 home runs, he would still have amassed 3,000 hits in his career.

Well, an equally telling stat is that if you took away all of Gretzky’s 894 NHL goals, he would still be the NHL’s all-time leading scorer. Mark Messier, Gretzky’s longtime friend and teammate with both the Edmonton Oilers and New York Rangers, is second all-time in points with 1,887.

5. Most Hart Trophies in a Career (9)

Similar to The Great One’s record for most Art Ross Trophies, the number of times that Gretzky won the Hart Trophy is staggering, especially considering that he won all nine in the first ten years of his career.

Not to mention that if it wasn’t for an injury-plagued 1987-88 season — and the rise of Mario Lemieux — it could have easily been ten MVP Awards in ten seasons for Wayne.

Among current players, Alex Ovechkin is the only one to have been selected more than once as the league’s best player in a season. Washington’s captain has won the award twice, but hasn’t won it since the 2008-09 season.

4. Most Career Points (2,857)

Gretzky, the only player to have more than 2,000 points, has 970 more points than the runner-up Messier (and the latter played in 269 more games). The active leader in points, Jaromir Jagr, has 1,653 points.

The fact that players like Messier and Jagr, one already in the Hall of Fame and the other a first ballot Hall of Famer, who have had long and productive careers and are well short of this record is mind boggling.

To put the Gretzky stats in perspective, a player would need to average just under 143 points per year for 20 years to break his mark.

3. Three Consecutive 200-point Seasons

The odds of a player in the NHL recording 200 points in any season are slim to none. So imagine the likelihood of a player accomplishing this feat three seasons in a row.

Gretzky, who amassed 200 or more points in a year four times during his career, accomplished this feat between the 1983-84 and 1985-86 seasons, when he recorded 205, 208, and 215 points, respectively.

Also, consider the fact the Art Ross Trophy winners from the past five years averaged 110 points per year.

2. 51-Game Point Scoring Streak

“The streak” is hockey’s equivalent to Joe Dimaggio’s 56-game hitting streak in baseball, and it is also a hallowed benchmark in hockey history.

Gretzky started this run on opening night of the 1983-84 season, and totaled an astounding 61 goals, 92 assists, and 153 points. Mario Lemieux came close to Gretzky’s record with a 46-game point scoring streak in 1989-90, and one lengthy streak in recent memory was Sidney Crosby’s 25-game streak in 2010.

But it will take a special player with the right timing — and quite frankly luck — to eclipse this record.

1. 50 Goals in 39 Games

Although you could make the case that any one of these records listed in the top ten could be considered number one on this list, 50 goals in 39 games is the record that Gretzky has repeated that he takes the most pride in, and has said on record that it will be the toughest to break.

Over the last three seasons, only six players have scored 50 goals in an entire season. To score 50 goals in half as many games seems preposterous based on these numbers. It’s a record that would take a consistent, incredible hot streak that is impossible.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,774]

17 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I think this gets over stated sometimes, just because he was one of the leagues best pitchers.  But if you take the year that he did his best, 1916, where he had 23 wins with a 1.75 ERA, Walter Johnson had a better year.  Johnson had more wins, more strikeouts, less walks, a better ERA+, more complete games, and more innings pitched... and the only reason why he had only 25 wins, was because he played on a substantially worse team than Ruth.  Had Johnson played for the Red Sox that year, he probably would've had close to, if not exceeded 40 wins.

He'd certainly have gotten votes, but I don't think he'd have won.

It’s like Mickey Mantle once said “ if I had known stolen bases were going to be such a big deal, I would have done it  more”.  Ruth would have pitched more if it was needed. 

[edjr 5,598]

20 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

Feats in hockey that will never be broken. The number 6 below stat is focking crazy. 

 

Gretzky played when goalies wore popsicle sticks for pads.  Look up highlights. Laughable how easy it was to score goals in the 80s and early 90s

Bernie Nichols scored 70 goals in 88-89  

 

[Utilit99 4,099]

6 minutes ago, edjr said:

Gretzky played when goalies wore popsicle sticks for pads.  Look up highlights. Laughable how easy it was to score goals in the 80s and early 90s

Bernie Nichols scored 70 goals in 88-89  

 

Then how come he is the only one in that time to have those records?

[TBayXXXVII 2,145]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

It’s like Mickey Mantle once said “ if I had known stolen bases were going to be such a big deal, I would have stolen more”.  Ruth would have pitched more if it was needed. 

I don't think so.  The Red Sox had other really good pitchers.  You can't win 90+ games with only 1 good pitcher.  In 2015, the Red Sox had 4 of 5 pitchers who have ERA's under 2.40.  The only one who didn't?  Babe Ruth.  That year, Ruth had 18 wins... 2 other guys had 19.  The other 2 had 15.  He was 3rd on the team in starts with 28.  Yes, he had the best year for his team in 1916, but in 1917, Carl Mays was a better pitcher and pitched less than Ruth.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,774]

25 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I don't think so.  The Red Sox had other really good pitchers.  You can't win 90+ games with only 1 good pitcher.  In 2015, the Red Sox had 4 of 5 pitchers who have ERA's under 2.40.  The only one who didn't?  Babe Ruth.  That year, Ruth had 18 wins... 2 other guys had 19.  The other 2 had 15.  He was 3rd on the team in starts with 28.  Yes, he had the best year for his team in 1916, but in 1917, Carl Mays was a better pitcher and pitched less than Ruth.

Well, he was busy with other things. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,145]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

Well, he was busy with other things. 

No he wasn't.  All pitchers batted back then.  From 1915-1917, the years he pitched the most, he batted just as much as other pitchers in his era.  The whole pitching and hitting thing is way over blown.  In 1918 and 1919, he did his most hitting... while pitching, and his pitching numbers were substantially lower.  People really overblow the "two-way" aspect of Babe Ruth.  He was a great hitter when he was hitting.  He was a great pitcher when he was pitching, but both of his numbers were reduced when he was doing both.

[taco breath 419]

is golf a sport?