Hawaii is on fire

[Cloaca du jour 2,147]

3 hours ago, Gepetto said:

How do the d!psh!t people get put in charge?

Smart ones dont want the responsibility.

[squistion 1,952]

5 hours ago, HellToupee said:

@squistion is still outraged over paper towels 

I'm not outraged. Just pointing out that was about all he did for Puerto Rico. 

[wiffleball 4,788]

Stupid comment about hot ground 

[Ultra Max Power 214]

Locals were saying the death toll is being way underreported. 

Today the governor also said they expect "to uncover a lot more loss of life".

Multi-story hotels are still yet to be searched.  

On the plus side the 1k unaccounted for is down to 800. 

[Tree of Knowledge 1,701]

1 hour ago, Ultra Max Power said:

Locals were saying the death toll is being way underreported. 

Today the governor also said they expect "to uncover a lot more loss of life".

Multi-story hotels are still yet to be searched.  

On the plus side the 1k unaccounted for is down to 800. 

I am hearing this as well.  Lots of the missing are children.  

[Ultra Max Power 214]

11 minutes ago, Tree of Knowledge said:

I am hearing this as well.  Lots of the missing are children.  

sadly I've heard that number was about 300 kids missing.  

[Ultra Max Power 214]

Tulsi was on Glen Beck the other day saying they fear a gas station's underground fuel storage exploded and has contaminated a lot of the western side of the island.  There are some people saying they will need to remove at least 5-10 feet of surface level ground over the whole area before people will be able to rebuild on the land....  They currently have no logistical plan for how they would accomplish this.  

So basically get ready for the state to condemn the land. 

[Reality 3,097]

13 hours ago, League Champion said:

 

He's such a massive piece of shlt.

[Blue Horseshoe 348]

11 hours ago, seafoam1 said:

He's hot on the campaign trail for 2024. 

 

What's totally bizarre about Biden politically is that it is incredibly difficult to remove a sitting first term POTUS out of the nomination for a potential 2nd term. 

Neera Tanden is one of the most ruthless current political operatives from the "leftist" ranks anywhere in the country. And now she has operational day to day control of the White House. She's not giving that up. She and Jill Biden will literally pump Joe Biden full of whatever to keep him going to try to win POTUS again. Biden is obviously on something most of the time to keep him upright. Well, as much as that's possible. 

If DNC HQ and the DCCC try to primary out Biden, and bypass Harris to do it, for Newsom, that's pure political poison. There is no functional narrative to skip over the first black female VPOTUS from the nomination, if Biden is pushed aside, for the archetype of "white privilege" in Gavin Newsom. How can you hold onto your identity politics agenda like that? While a lot of black voters might find Harris to be an idiot, to be shoved aside like that will create losses to the Progressive base. I'm not going to sit here and say Team Blue will lose their strongholds to the GOP, but they risk being hit hard in primaries from those supported by Sanders and AOC.  Out of the original Squad, three of the four won a primary against a much more statistically favored establishment Democrat. 

Hawaii is considered a blue safe zone politically. And after this, will that still be true? 

This is where all of this can backfire very badly. Team Blue is intentionally trying to railroad Biden from 2024 POTUS to shift over in the primaries. But if they fail, because that's not something that can just magically happen, then all they've done is damage him in the general election against what will likely be Trump. 

Even Biden failure without forcing him out is helping Trump win in the future. How crazy is that. 

And the sad thing is Tanden and Team Blue are counting votes lost now, not lives lost. They don't care. Regular people are just cattle to them. 

[League Champion 1,896]

 

[Ultra Max Power 214]

Down to only 388 people missing

Looks like the blame game has started as well.  Govt of Hawaii has sued the electric company for not turning off the power.  Electric company blames land management.  

[Ultra Max Power 214]

Quote

It's already being called "The Biden Curtain," as new videos from Lahaina, Maui, reveal miles of black curtains erected to prevent people from seeing what's happening at the origin site of this month's catastrophic wildfires in Hawaii.

Geoff Cygnus, a citizen journalist on TikTok, posted the video, with a caption reading: "Miles and miles of black fencing being put up in Lahaina. Ground Zero is now behind the Biden curtain."

Totally normal... nothing to see here

[thegeneral 2,909]

On 8/18/2023 at 6:31 PM, seafoam1 said:

Hawaii is as bad as California. Let it burn.

Yikes. What a piece of shet.

[Ultra Max Power 214]

Also to clarify its not only 388 people missing.  Missing count is still at 1,100 sadly.  Which means most of those people are dead. Likely cremated due to the intensity of the fire which is kind of wild on its own.

Hawaii Electric has confirmed their power lines did cause the morning fire, but that fire was 100% contained by local fire/rescue. They deny the afternoon fire was started by power lines because they had turned off the power at that point.  

[Ultra Max Power 214]

Government has spent more money putting FEMA employees up in luxury hotels on Maui then they have given to the families who are now homeless, evicted or missing loved ones. 

Sad this isn't getting the attention it deserves.  

[jonnyutah 248]

9 hours ago, Ultra Max Power said:

Government has spent more money putting FEMA employees up in luxury hotels on Maui then they have given to the families who are now homeless, evicted or missing loved ones. 

Sad this isn't getting the attention it deserves.  

Evicted? 

[thegeneral 2,909]

12 hours ago, Ultra Max Power said:

Totally normal... nothing to see here

There are officials sifting through ashes looking for bones or teeth to try and identify bodies. They have people who lived there also wanting to go to their homes or apartments to look for things. There’s also weirdos who want to look around who have no business being there.

There’s not a great way to handle this. It’s also very understandable that people are angry and frustrated.

[Ultra Max Power 214]

7 hours ago, jonnyutah said:

Evicted? 

There have been reports coming from the locals that the government is forcing them to leave their homes due to two gas stations on Lahaina having their underground fuel storage tanks rupture/explode.  They are calling it a hazmat spill that contaminated the soil and are being forced to leave the area.  

[Ultra Max Power 214]

7 hours ago, thegeneral said:

There are officials sifting through ashes looking for bones or teeth to try and identify bodies. They have people who lived there also wanting to go to their homes or apartments to look for things. There’s also weirdos who want to look around who have no business being there.

There’s not a great way to handle this. It’s also very understandable that people are angry and frustrated.

They've already called up the national guard and called in the military to support security operations.  Erecting miles and miles of blacked out fencing is a very costly and time consuming process and the idea that Hawaii is doing it because of "gawkers"? If anything its only drawing more attention to the situation. Those families are going to townhall meetings to scream for aid and government intervention and the best they can do is turn away supplies and build a fence around the site?  

The government of Hawaii screwed up so massively in this situation they don't get the benefit of the doubt here.  Those teeth they are picking up are from dead kids who received no warning of a pending fire and families that had no water to fight off the flames. This same government is looking back on the situation and saying "yeah, we did the right thing"

[TheNewGirl 1,347]

FEMA is running out of money: https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/28/politics/fema-climate-resiliency-fund/index.html#:~:text=The new money%2C which will,is bearing down on Florida. 

And they want to pass a $3 billion bill to increase FEMA for "climate resiliency." 

And of course...we have to include more money for Ukraine.  I don't blame the house conservatives for putting up a fight. We have sent Ukraine SO much that our own cities are burning to the ground or being flooded by hurricanes...and Biden just talks about the fire in his kitchen that almost made him lose his Corvette. FFS. 

 

Quote

 

Criswell told CNN that the agency’s disaster relief fund is projected to run out of money “toward the middle of September” unless Congress passes additional funding to replenish it. Congress is expected to return after Labor Day. 

Despite bipartisan support in the Senate, House conservatives have warned they are unhappy with disaster funding being tied to additional funding for Ukraine – which could set up a protracted spending battle. If funding isn’t passed soon after Congress returns in early September, it could hamper the agency’s response to future Atlantic hurricanes and delay long-term recovery efforts in Maui.

 

 

[Ultra Max Power 214]

1 minute ago, TheNewGirl said:

FEMA is running out of money: https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/28/politics/fema-climate-resiliency-fund/index.html#:~:text=The new money%2C which will,is bearing down on Florida. 

And they want to pass a $3 billion bill to increase FEMA for "climate resiliency." 

And of course...we have to include more money for Ukraine.  I don't blame the house conservatives for putting up a fight. We have sent Ukraine SO much that our own cities are burning to the ground or being flooded by hurricanes...and Biden just talks about the fire in his kitchen that almost made him lose his Corvette. FFS. 

 

 

FEMA workers are also staying in hotel rooms that range from $500-1200 a night.   So yeah, I see why they run out of money... 

[thegeneral 2,909]

34 minutes ago, Ultra Max Power said:

They've already called up the national guard and called in the military to support security operations.  Erecting miles and miles of blacked out fencing is a very costly and time consuming process and the idea that Hawaii is doing it because of "gawkers"? If anything its only drawing more attention to the situation. Those families are going to townhall meetings to scream for aid and government intervention and the best they can do is turn away supplies and build a fence around the site?  

The government of Hawaii screwed up so massively in this situation they don't get the benefit of the doubt here.  Those teeth they are picking up are from dead kids who received no warning of a pending fire and families that had no water to fight off the flames. This same government is looking back on the situation and saying "yeah, we did the right thing"

What is benefit of the doubt you are referring to? There being errors made does not mean there is some nefarious plan behind all this. People would be justifiably upset regardless of what is happening, this is a terrible tragedy.

I saw an article where they interviewed a person who is manning one of the checkpoints. People come up to them with terrible stories and all the person can do is refer them to the local police and try to arraigned an escort into the area which there is a long list of people waiting to get.

This guy said he totally understands that people want to yell at him and he takes it as he knows how awful this must be for people who have lost everything. 

[Ultra Max Power 214]

10 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

What is benefit of the doubt you are referring to? There being errors made does not mean there is some nefarious plan behind all this. People would be justifiably upset regardless of what is happening, this is a terrible tragedy.

I saw an article where they interviewed a person who is manning one of the checkpoints. People come up to them with terrible stories and all the person can do is refer them to the local police and try to arraigned an escort into the area which there is a long list of people waiting to get.

This guy said he totally understands that people want to yell at him and he takes it as he knows how awful this must be for people who have lost everything. 

I don't give them the benefit of the doubt that these miles of fence are just to divert onlookers.  Like i've said, I think this is going to be a land grab.  The fence makes it easier to control the situation.  I have no doubt in my mind they will bleed the locals out until they can't afford to keep their land.  There is no solution for them right now.  Their economy died.  Their money burned up.  Insurance won't pay out until they inspect the properties and the government isn't letting them in either.  To top that off, the same government is also trying to put a real estate moratorium on those residents who are trying to sell... unless they sell to the state of Hawaii.  

The government has been incompetent for years leading up to the event. They ignored their land management duties creating the environment that allowed for a fire to spread as rapidly as it did.  They had public officials in place who either didn't know what they were doing or just failed miserably on that day.  They we're negligent to the point of malice on the day the fires started.  The police chief (who backstory is insane on its own) is currently lying to the press about how his officers were used that day.  They have videos proving he was lying.

Then the Hawaiian govt sues Hawiian electric BEFORE their investigation is even complete.  Hawaii Electric has already fired back that the governments claim of the events is factually incorrect and they have the proof.  Its just a shitshow.  

Its infuriating to watch local reporting on the issue and listen to the people cite all the things the MSM is ignoring or not reporting.  The MSM is only repeating what the government tells them and it isn't the ground truth. When did the press move away from telling the story of the people to only repeating the government narrative? Its sickening. 

 I think the death toll is still at 115, but its clearly going to be closer to 1,000 when everything is settled.  This should be the biggest story in America, but crickets.  

 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

Biden made it about him again today. Surprised he hasn’t found a way to mention Beau yet. And they call Trump a narcissist. He is,  but not like this guy.  

[thegeneral 2,909]

2 hours ago, Ultra Max Power said:

I don't give them the benefit of the doubt that these miles of fence are just to divert onlookers.  Like i've said, I think this is going to be a land grab.  The fence makes it easier to control the situation.  I have no doubt in my mind they will bleed the locals out until they can't afford to keep their land.  There is no solution for them right now.  Their economy died.  Their money burned up.  Insurance won't pay out until they inspect the properties and the government isn't letting them in either.  To top that off, the same government is also trying to put a real estate moratorium on those residents who are trying to sell... unless they sell to the state of Hawaii.  

The government has been incompetent for years leading up to the event. They ignored their land management duties creating the environment that allowed for a fire to spread as rapidly as it did.  They had public officials in place who either didn't know what they were doing or just failed miserably on that day.  They we're negligent to the point of malice on the day the fires started.  The police chief (who backstory is insane on its own) is currently lying to the press about how his officers were used that day.  They have videos proving he was lying.

Then the Hawaiian govt sues Hawiian electric BEFORE their investigation is even complete.  Hawaii Electric has already fired back that the governments claim of the events is factually incorrect and they have the proof.  Its just a shitshow.  

Its infuriating to watch local reporting on the issue and listen to the people cite all the things the MSM is ignoring or not reporting.  The MSM is only repeating what the government tells them and it isn't the ground truth. When did the press move away from telling the story of the people to only repeating the government narrative? Its sickening. 

 I think the death toll is still at 115, but its clearly going to be closer to 1,000 when everything is settled.  This should be the biggest story in America, but crickets.  

 

We will have to disagree. That this would be the way the “government” would do a land grab - start a fire that burns a town down if that is what you are saying is crazy. There would be other ways to go about this that wouldn’t involve murdering hundreds of people.

I do agree there have been a ton of mistakes and of course people will be upset, distraught, mad as hell, etc…

I’d also expect lots of stories that are perhaps being relayed incorrectly or people venting being misconstrued or explained incorrectly, or hearsay, etc…

 

[Stryker Ryker 188]

According to this administration, there’s no plans to send the residents of Hawaii any more money. Meanwhile, they approved another $100 billion for Ukraine At this point, it’s blatantly obvious democrats don’t care about the American people and aren’t scared to show people that they’re embezzling all the money they’ve been sending to Ukraine 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,237]

That was the best 85k a month ukraine ever spent giving money to hunter

[Ultra Max Power 214]

1 hour ago, thegeneral said:

We will have to disagree. That this would be the way the “government” would do a land grab - start a fire that burns a town down if that is what you are saying is crazy. There would be other ways to go about this that wouldn’t involve murdering hundreds of people.

I do agree there have been a ton of mistakes and of course people will be upset, distraught, mad as hell, etc…

I’d also expect lots of stories that are perhaps being relayed incorrectly or people venting being misconstrued or explained incorrectly, or hearsay, etc…

 

I didn't say the govt started the fire.  We don't even know how the afternoon fire started, but that hasn't stopped premature lawsuits to get the booger off them. 

What you're chalking up to incompetence, I'm chalking up to evil. They ignored hazards that put people at risk, they didn't sound the alarms, they turned off the water, they blocked the exits, they are putting moratoriums on sales, they aren't supporting the residents.  

Anyone with logical reasoning is going to see that "big money" is going to be the real winner in this.  The same big money that gets people elected that F up all this stuff. 

I'm sure there are going to be some embellished stories on social media.  I'm still taking their side as there will absolutely be flat out lies from the govt that the MSM will parrot.  I'm going to side with the people who lost everything over the soulless. 

[Engorgeous George 2,130]

So in Biden's retelling of the story his staff cannot get him to discard this time the lightning did not styrike the lake or pond and travel to the house but it actually struck tyhe house and instead of fire there was a danger of near collapse and they had to leave the home for seven months.  It is unclear what he did during those seven months but he and Doctor Jill may well have been doing some of their early work in curing all cancers, work which should be coming to fruition any day now, as promised during the campaign.

[thegeneral 2,909]

2 hours ago, Ultra Max Power said:

I didn't say the govt started the fire.  We don't even know how the afternoon fire started, but that hasn't stopped premature lawsuits to get the booger off them. 

What you're chalking up to incompetence, I'm chalking up to evil. They ignored hazards that put people at risk, they didn't sound the alarms, they turned off the water, they blocked the exits, they are putting moratoriums on sales, they aren't supporting the residents.  

Anyone with logical reasoning is going to see that "big money" is going to be the real winner in this.  The same big money that gets people elected that F up all this stuff. 

I'm sure there are going to be some embellished stories on social media.  I'm still taking their side as there will absolutely be flat out lies from the govt that the MSM will parrot.  I'm going to side with the people who lost everything over the soulless. 

Are you saying then you believe they wanted the fire to burn the town down so they could develop it?

[Ultra Max Power 214]

5 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Are you saying then you believe they wanted the fire to burn the town down so they could develop it?

I'm saying at every turn where they could have improved the outcome, they didn't. Now they lying about the events that day.

Police chief said a roadblock was setup because of downed powerlines along the highway out of town.  Hawaii electric said the power was off.  The people who walked or drove around the roadblock reported they saw no downed powerlines in the road.  It defies logic that you close a road for power lines and force people to turn back into a raging fire, but that's what the police did.  Again... the same guy who ran the Vegas shooting response team that we still don't have full transparency on. 

I think this was some sort of enabled land grab.  The US government doesn't have the best track record when it comes to obtaining land from the Hawaiian natives.  

[thegeneral 2,909]

24 minutes ago, Ultra Max Power said:

I'm saying at every turn where they could have improved the outcome, they didn't. Now they lying about the events that day.

Police chief said a roadblock was setup because of downed powerlines along the highway out of town.  Hawaii electric said the power was off.  The people who walked or drove around the roadblock reported they saw no downed powerlines in the road.  It defies logic that you close a road for power lines and force people to turn back into a raging fire, but that's what the police did.  Again... the same guy who ran the Vegas shooting response team that we still don't have full transparency on. 

I think this was some sort of enabled land grab.  The US government doesn't have the best track record when it comes to obtaining land from the Hawaiian natives.  

Fair enough.

I think this was all a disaster combined with errors and poor choices during a hectic moment. I listened to an account by a guy who lived there and it was truly insane how fast things unwound for him and how his poor choices compounded his ordeal. He saw the fire and then just went back into his house and chilled out: Listening to his account I was thinking how odd his choices were and was so engrossed in his story I was practically talking out loud to myself as he spoke of each wrong move he made. 

But of course I am just listening to a podcast in my backyard. We know the outcome. When things are happening people make bad choices and then they unravel into disaster. 

That we took Hawaii 150 years ago doesn’t really have any relevance IMO. Either does that the Vegas guy is now the guy there. Just an odd coincidence. 

[Ultra Max Power 214]

1 hour ago, thegeneral said:

That we took Hawaii 150 years ago doesn’t really have any relevance IMO. Either does that the Vegas guy is now the guy there. Just an odd coincidence. 

I think it does to the Hawaiian people.  They are very connected to their land and they haven't forget how the United States committed a hostile takeover.  The same United states that is now weak with federal relief and offering no reassurances that generational land will remain with the rightful owners.  You have to see that a large percentage of that population will be displaced from this.  Its heartbreaking and they already know this is going to play out.  

Vegas guy is an odd coincidence.  He also already has a bad track record and now he is back lying again.  He now gets the distinction of being in charge during two of the most horrific events in American History.  

CBS news finally covered some of the response tonight.

Officials dodge questions over Maui wildfire response - YouTube

Its shocking to watch the mayor and emergency response commander just throw off any sort of accountability. 

Mayor: "I didn't call anybody, I don't know who's job that is"

Emergency Management Commanded: "Oh, I thought everyone got out safely..."

man... these people can't be real   

[Ultra Max Power 214]

History of US Land grabs in Hawaii

How Native Hawaiians have been pushed out of Hawai'i - YouTube

[HellToupee 1,587]

7 hours ago, Stryker Ryker said:

According to this administration, there’s no plans to send the residents of Hawaii any more money. Meanwhile, they approved another $100 billion for Ukraine At this point, it’s blatantly obvious democrats don’t care about the American people and aren’t scared to show people that they’re embezzling all the money they’ve been sending to Ukraine 

We’ve paying the  pensions and welfare of the people of Ukraine. Hawaiian’s can kick rocks

[seafoam1 2,801]

8 hours ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

That was the best 85k a month ukraine ever spent giving money to hunter

Ain't that the focking truth. And your average liberal says: "No way is biden compromised by Ukraine or China!! ".

"Hey you! Homeless vet living in a sleeping bag in California. Here's a couple nickles and a needle for your troubles. Sorry, can't help cause we're emptying the bank on Ukraine."

[thegeneral 2,909]

5 hours ago, Ultra Max Power said:

I think it does to the Hawaiian people.  They are very connected to their land and they haven't forget how the United States committed a hostile takeover.  The same United states that is now weak with federal relief and offering no reassurances that generational land will remain with the rightful owners.  You have to see that a large percentage of that population will be displaced from this.  Its heartbreaking and they already know this is going to play out.  

Vegas guy is an odd coincidence.  He also already has a bad track record and now he is back lying again.  He now gets the distinction of being in charge during two of the most horrific events in American History.  

CBS news finally covered some of the response tonight.

Officials dodge questions over Maui wildfire response - YouTube

Its shocking to watch the mayor and emergency response commander just throw off any sort of accountability. 

Mayor: "I didn't call anybody, I don't know who's job that is"

Emergency Management Commanded: "Oh, I thought everyone got out safely..."

man... these people can't be real   

People getting screwed has no relevance to the mishandling of a fire purposefully was my point. If you say some insurance companies are going to rip some folks off or that many people will be priced out of rebuilding I’d definitely could see that happening.

At one point they were talking about some sort of plan to assure the land couldn’t be bought up by developers. I could see that being full of problems and some people being upset by that.

People are going  to be angry no matter what is done here.

Again my point is that nothing about these fires was intentionally.

[Fireballer 2,639]

7 hours ago, Ultra Max Power said:

I'm saying at every turn where they could have improved the outcome, they didn't. Now they lying about the events that day.

Police chief said a roadblock was setup because of downed powerlines along the highway out of town.  Hawaii electric said the power was off.  The people who walked or drove around the roadblock reported they saw no downed powerlines in the road.  It defies logic that you close a road for power lines and force people to turn back into a raging fire, but that's what the police did.  Again... the same guy who ran the Vegas shooting response team that we still don't have full transparency on. 

I think this was some sort of enabled land grab.  The US government doesn't have the best track record when it comes to obtaining land from the Hawaiian natives.  

As a certified Arson Investigator, the absurdity of a law suit so soon after a fire with an undetermined cause is laughable.  No local or state agency would have the resources to do an investigation of that magnitude so quickly, much less sue on the grounds of said investigation.  
 

Secondly, as a first responder for almost 30 years, the fact that someone is actually trying to justify an evacuation from a rapidly advancing fire being held up by a road block is unfathomable.  A decision to not let a mass evacuation take place would not fall on the boots on the ground. Unless roads were actually impassable due to cave ins or downed trees, this story of a downed power line is moronic.

[Ultra Max Power 214]

7 hours ago, thegeneral said:

People getting screwed has no relevance to the mishandling of a fire purposefully was my point. If you say some insurance companies are going to rip some folks off or that many people will be priced out of rebuilding I’d definitely could see that happening.

At one point they were talking about some sort of plan to assure the land couldn’t be bought up by developers. I could see that being full of problems and some people being upset by that.

People are going  to be angry no matter what is done here.

Again my point is that nothing about these fires was intentionally.

I'm going to disagree with you. 

Intentional decisions were made to not manage the brush fire hazard, not sound alarms, divert water from the area, block evacuation routes, not call in emergency response teams and lie to the public.

This same group won't accept any accountability now either. 

This goes beyond incompetence into negligent manslaughter territory. 

The only people who come out winners here are the massive corporations who are the leading donors getting these "incompetent" folks elected. 

[Ultra Max Power 214]

7 hours ago, Fireballer said:

As a certified Arson Investigator, the absurdity of a law suit so soon after a fire with an undetermined cause is laughable.  No local or state agency would have the resources to do an investigation of that magnitude so quickly, much less sue on the grounds of said investigation.  
 

Secondly, as a first responder for almost 30 years, the fact that someone is actually trying to justify an evacuation from a rapidly advancing fire being held up by a road block is unfathomable.  A decision to not let a mass evacuation take place would not fall on the boots on the ground. Unless roads were actually impassable due to cave ins or downed trees, this story of a downed power line is moronic.

Yeah it's obvious the purpose of the lawsuit was to divert blame. Governor really screwed up there. Especially with the power company claiming the lines were powered down before the second fire started.

The roadblock story is a flat out lie as well. People who drove around the roadblock reported no issues with powerlines being down.

As far as a fire specific question for you... when a fire department reports the fire is 100% contained, what are the odds that same fire reignites and starts blazing again?