At 13 Baltimore City high schools, zero students tested proficient on 2023 state math exam

[GutterBoy 2,898]

2 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

And you affirm yet again.

There’s no dissonance. I understand what you’re saying, which is that we should consider whether blacks are simply inherently inferior to whites and maybe other races.

The issue is, a) that is, by definition, racist (sorry you don’t like the definition, but you fit it to a tee, and b) the whole reason we consider it racist is where would that even lead? What is the point of even engaging in that inquiry? Would you exterminate the race? Go the eugenics route and sterilize? Would you relegate blacks to a lesser role or diminished expectations owing to their supposed inherent inferiority?

I mean that’s some real vile sh1t there, and I can’t see any other implication of your little inquiry there.

Jerry being jerry, the petulant obnoxious douche that he is, is gonna try and tell us that it's facts and data (even thought it's not) and you can't be racist if you're right, and he desperately just wants to be right.

[Voltaire 5,202]

6 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I appreciate many if not most of the conservative arguments in this thread. Not all of them of course, but most. 
 

What I fundamentally reject is the conclusion of “there’s no way we can improve things because the culture won’t allow for it so let’s not do anything.” This is what every conservative argument seems to ultimately lead to. 

 

The conservative solution is not "there's no way to do anything because the culture won't allow for it so let's not do anything."

The conservative solution is to give the parents vouchers so they can move their kids into functional schools if they are unhappy with the one they are in. Here's five minutes well worth your time: (1) Philadelphia student at State of the Union receives scholarship | ABC News - YouTube

The major problem in minority communities is there are no conservatives around to help the kids. Only various factions of clueless leftoids who do push-me-pull-you, never get any results, and who only point their fingers at each other.

[BuckSwope 654]

4 hours ago, jerryskids said:

 

Regarding differences in community, we've hashed these out before, but... 1.did you aspire to be a rap artist, treating women like hos? 2.  Did you look at successful white people in traditional society as Uncle Toms who had sold out to the establishment?  3. Were your parents together, and those of your friends? (Honest question here; obviously I don't know and I don't know how different this is in poor black vs. white communities)

1.  No.   You are really showing your age on this one though.    I think you guys look silly when you talk about rap music so much.  

2.  No.   I also have never encountered this sentiment IRL.   I'm sure we can find some crazy blacks online that believe that though.  

3.   Yes, but they largely disliked each other.  They got divorced later in life after I left.   All us kids felt the same - just divorce and spare us the anger and tension.    My friends were a mixed bag, but there was still plenty of divorce.   

 

To me, these are still not things that are exclusive to the AA community.    You all love to point out rap music - do you take even a few minutes to think what our music and movies set as an example?  The 90s were so assaulty/rapey, basic guns out to solve issues, etc.   Yeah, a bunch of us want to be a rock star too - do you think that's to earn and honest living and start a family, or mostly to drink, fock, and fight?    A big difference that I see is that because of their conditions when I read books and interviews on sports stars and rappers, one common thing that comes up is they largely felt like their options in the community were:  ball, rap, or sell drugs.    @peenie - made a great point earlier by pointing out that people should also pause to think about who is largely putting those images out there and deciding what to air and play.   

#3 is why I largely don't think the preservation of the family unit is the end all be all.    Just having a and a vagina in the house, doesn't mean it's a loving and supportive family.  Divorce rate is high in all communities, and when it's not - from my experience they are riddled with parents who largely dislike each other and are staying together "for the kids", you have abuse, or you just have disengaged parents.    When I read "preserve the family unit" these are the things that go through my head and I think it's too simplistic.   Yes, in theory having 2 parents in the house is ideal.  But I add in important descriptors like loving, caring, engaged, sober,  etc..      That is the stuff you can't force.    

 

[BuckSwope 654]

4 hours ago, RLLD said:

I like the point you have raised, beacuse I think it really helps bring the point home.  There are plenty of communities of people in this nation who can lay claim to econonic hardship.  So then, why is there no special allocation or awareness raised toward THOSE groups?  Appalacians?  Native Americans, notably Alaskans, Hispanics....all can lay claim to elevated levels of poverty....

We make our own decisions of course, each person is more or less exactly where they deserve to be, not an absolute but a reliably true statement.  No nation or system in the history of the word has raised people up to prosperity as we have seen in this nation. And when people simply try, often it works out for them....

Well, I think there is some level of that in the Hispanic and NA communities.    But this is largely my point and where I get annoyed with people falling back on the race stuff.   IMO 80%+ of the issues with the black community are addressed by addressing poverty and education as a whole in the country.   Add a couple things like war on drugs and how we teach reading, and I think we are well on our way.   By doing this we ignore race and give a boost to all these communities getting left behind.   

I am saying provide these things to all those communities you lists and poor white communities.   IMO conservatives as a whole seem to saying don't do that and let them fix themselves, or at least I get that impression reading posts on these boards from that side of the aisle.  

[GutterBoy 2,898]

9 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

1.  No.   You are really showing your age on this one though.    I think you guys look silly when you talk about rap music so much.  

 

I called jerry out for an "Ebonics" joke recently.

[jerryskids 6,567]

46 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

And you affirm yet again.

There’s no dissonance. I understand what you’re saying, which is that we should consider whether blacks are simply inherently inferior to whites and maybe other races.

The issue is, a) that is, by definition, racist (sorry you don’t like the definition, but you fit it to a tee, and b) the whole reason we consider it racist is where would that even lead? What is the point of even engaging in that inquiry? Would you exterminate the race? Go the eugenics route and sterilize? Would you relegate blacks to a lesser role or diminished expectations owing to their supposed inherent inferiority?

I mean that’s some real vile sh1t there, and I can’t see any other implication of your little inquiry there.

I never said inferior, you did, racist.  Everything else you said I've addressed, if you'd bothered to read.

Do you consider recognition of facts to be racist? If so, did you learn that in lawyer school?

[BuckSwope 654]

3 hours ago, jerryskids said:

 

I will add to the list:  did you have 1/2 of the country, including the leadership in your city, repeatedly telling you that another more successful race was keeping you down and you'd never be successful?

I answered the others above, and of course I think you are being a bit hyperbolic about this too.   There are always kooks out there and I know you hate the Ds, but I don't get that sentiment and I interact with more Ls and Rs IRL.    Most talk and think like I do.    Even when I interact with people talking about systemic racism, it's not that that sentiment - it's about removing barriers so people can be successful, not that a master race is keeping the brother man down and they will never get ahead.    That's what right wing media feeds you all.  

[BuckSwope 654]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I appreciate many if not most of the conservative arguments in this thread. Not all of them of course, but most. 
 

What I fundamentally reject is the conclusion of “there’s no way we can improve things because the culture won’t allow for it so let’s not do anything.” This is what every conservative argument seems to ultimately lead to. 

I do get a whiff of that as well on these boards from time to time.  

[jerryskids 6,567]

22 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

1.  No.   You are really showing your age on this one though.    I think you guys look silly when you talk about rap music so much.  

2.  No.   I also have never encountered this sentiment IRL.   I'm sure we can find some crazy blacks online that believe that though.  

3.   Yes, but they largely disliked each other.  They got divorced later in life after I left.   All us kids felt the same - just divorce and spare us the anger and tension.    My friends were a mixed bag, but there was still plenty of divorce.   

 

To me, these are still not things that are exclusive to the AA community.    You all love to point out rap music - do you take even a few minutes to think what our music and movies set as an example?  The 90s were so assaulty/rapey, basic guns out to solve issues, etc.   Yeah, a bunch of us want to be a rock star too - do you think that's to earn and honest living and start a family, or mostly to drink, fock, and fight?    A big difference that I see is that because of their conditions when I read books and interviews on sports stars and rappers, one common thing that comes up is they largely felt like their options in the community were:  ball, rap, or sell drugs.    @peenie - made a great point earlier by pointing out that people should also pause to think about who is largely putting those images out there and deciding what to air and play.   

#3 is why I largely don't think the preservation of the family unit is the end all be all.    Just having a and a vagina in the house, doesn't mean it's a loving and supportive family.  Divorce rate is high in all communities, and when it's not - from my experience they are riddled with parents who largely dislike each other and are staying together "for the kids", you have abuse, or you just have disengaged parents.    When I read "preserve the family unit" these are the things that go through my head and I think it's too simplistic.   Yes, in theory having 2 parents in the house is ideal.  But I add in important descriptors like loving, caring, engaged, sober,  etc..      That is the stuff you can't force.    

 

Appreciate the response, a few comments.

1. Rap is still popular, look up some Gunna lyrics he had the too rap song of 2023 when I posted them.

2. You don't have took very hard to find uncle Tom opinions. Larry Elder is the black face of white supremacy.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-08-20/recall-candidate-larry-elder-is-a-threat-to-black-californians

Clarence Thomas is an Uncle Tom:

https://wlos.com/news/nation-world/state-lawmaker-calls-clarence-thomas-an-uncle-tom-sold-his-soul-to-the-slave-master-georgia-democratic-sen-emanuel-jones-legislature-general-assembly

3. Its not a perfect system. But preserving the family unit doesn't mean you keep treating each other like shiot but stay together anyway.  It's about both people respecting each other and working on fixing problems.

[BuckSwope 654]

4 hours ago, IGotWorms said:

Exactly.

My whole point here is you can talk about all of those issues without bringing race into it at all.

But many of the bored righties simply can’t do it, because they’re too invested in their identity as a member of “the superior race”

Yeah, I think you went too far here.   IMO it largely goes back to that conversative outlook of "I did it, why can't you" I brought up the other day.   If hard work and dedication works, then these people are just largely choosing not to do that, so fock 'em.   That's more the sentiment I get.    

For starters, that ignores the large number that did in fact get out of that cycle of those communities and succeed with hard work and dedication.   More importantly it also ignores odds and numbers.   To me it's common sense to say that it's easier to do that when you are middle class or above, have decent schools, have access to options and jobs vs. the conditions many of these communities are in.   So if you have a population like the AA community who are way more likely to be in poverty (by a factor of 2-3x), I think it's asinine to expect the same %s of being successful in life as other communities.   Just look at our nation's capital - 5% poverty rate in whites, 28% blacks.   I scanned the states for 2023 stats, and didn't see one where it wasn't at least 2x difference in the races.  

[seafoam1 2,803]

27 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

I called jerry out for an "Ebonics" joke recently.

Ebonics was a joke in and of itself. Focking dumbass lazy violent garbage.

[GutterBoy 2,898]

1 hour ago, GutterBoy said:

Jerry being jerry, the petulant obnoxious douche that he is, is gonna try and tell us that it's facts and data (even thought it's not) and you can't be racist if you're right, and he desperately just wants to be right.

 

29 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Do you consider recognition of facts to be racist? If so, did you learn that in lawyer school?

nailed it.

[IGotWorms 4,057]

7 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Appreciate the response, a few comments.

1. Rap is still popular, look up some Gunna lyrics he had the too rap song of 2023 when I posted them.

2. You don't have took very hard to find uncle Tom opinions. Larry Elder is the black face of white supremacy.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-08-20/recall-candidate-larry-elder-is-a-threat-to-black-californians

Clarence Thomas is an Uncle Tom:

https://wlos.com/news/nation-world/state-lawmaker-calls-clarence-thomas-an-uncle-tom-sold-his-soul-to-the-slave-master-georgia-democratic-sen-emanuel-jones-legislature-general-assembly

3. Its not a perfect system. But preserving the family unit doesn't mean you keep treating each other like shiot but stay together anyway.  It's about both people respecting each other and working on fixing problems.

I don’t like the term Uncle Tom because it implies a person owes something to others based on a shared race, which is incorrect.

However, Clarence Thomas is a lying, corrupt sack of sh1t, and that has been proven. Are blacks allowed to acknowledge that?

[BuckSwope 654]

21 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Appreciate the response, a few comments.

1. Rap is still popular, look up some Gunna lyrics he had the too rap song of 2023 when I posted them.

2. You don't have took very hard to find uncle Tom opinions. Larry Elder is the black face of white supremacy.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-08-20/recall-candidate-larry-elder-is-a-threat-to-black-californians

Clarence Thomas is an Uncle Tom:

https://wlos.com/news/nation-world/state-lawmaker-calls-clarence-thomas-an-uncle-tom-sold-his-soul-to-the-slave-master-georgia-democratic-sen-emanuel-jones-legislature-general-assembly

3. Its not a perfect system. But preserving the family unit doesn't mean you keep treating each other like shiot but stay together anyway.  It's about both people respecting each other and working on fixing problems.

I never said it wasn't popular.  It is.  My son basically only listens to rap and I talk to him about it as well.  My point is that like other things I've seen listed as negative black culture, IMO we can find in "our" culture too.  But that is never talked about, just the rap music.  I think it's a largely silly talking point, usually delivered by crusty old white dudes  .   

Like I said, I am sure you can find examples.  I am not familiar with Elder and his views, but will take a peek.   It can't be surprising that there is a wide range of opinions from the black community.   I was listening to a pod and John McWhorter was on railing on Ibram X. Kendi and his views.   I read both book and they are polar ends of the race and woke issue, for example.   You can't pretend that that is a unified sentiment in the black community.   IMO you are either seeking out or getting fed one side of that spectrum (and IMO the crazy wrong side). 

Of course, but you can't force that like I said.   Mostly I just read and hear - you gotta have 2 parents, and that is THE answer.    Like I said, too simplistic.  

 

[Engorgeous George 2,133]

I find it interesting this thread went instantly to black achievement and black parenting and black urban styreet culture.  As i read the thread title this was about baltimore schools and No Students being proficient.  Would that not also implicate other races as well?  Seems to me lots of folks here lept to a racial supposition when they discuss only black achievement and not urban kid achievement.

[jerryskids 6,567]

47 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

 

nailed it.

I didn't try anything.  I told you facts and data.  You interpret that data as racist.  Party of science.

[GutterBoy 2,898]

9 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I didn't try anything.  I told you facts and data.  You interpret that data as racist.  Party of science.

The data is not racist.  You using the data to support your argument is racist.

[seafoam1 2,803]

14 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

The data is not racist.  You using the data to support your argument is racist.

Just fock off with your racist bullshlt. You're such a dumbass.

[jerryskids 6,567]

2 hours ago, GutterBoy said:

The data is not racist.  You using the data to support your argument is racist.

What argument is that?

[GutterBoy 2,898]

17 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

What argument is that?

Whites are smarter than blacks

[Baker Boy 1,688]

8 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Whites are smarter than blacks

Joe Biden Says ‘Poor Kids’ Are Just as Bright as ‘White Kids’

Aug 9, 2019

NY TimesMatt Stevens

[GutterBoy 2,898]

3 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

Joe Biden Says ‘Poor Kids’ Are Just as Bright as ‘White Kids’

Aug 9, 2019

NY TimesMatt Stevens

Biden is racist

[RogerDodger 797]

3 hours ago, GutterBoy said:

Using data to support your argument is racist.

[jerryskids 6,567]

41 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Whites are smarter than blacks

Wrong, ass.  

[GutterBoy 2,898]

6 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Wrong, ass.  

Well you presented the evidence.  Why don't you tell us why.

[RLLD 4,143]

12 hours ago, BuckSwope said:

Well, I think there is some level of that in the Hispanic and NA communities.    But this is largely my point and where I get annoyed with people falling back on the race stuff.   IMO 80%+ of the issues with the black community are addressed by addressing poverty and education as a whole in the country.   Add a couple things like war on drugs and how we teach reading, and I think we are well on our way.   By doing this we ignore race and give a boost to all these communities getting left behind.   

I am saying provide these things to all those communities you lists and poor white communities.   IMO conservatives as a whole seem to saying don't do that and let them fix themselves, or at least I get that impression reading posts on these boards from that side of the aisle.  

 

But your point remains....poverty. Of course that is one of the main drivers and it impacts a large swath of people. THis eventually becomes circular.  I point back to when the socieconomic progress for the AA was proceeding rather well.  And then they were struck by policy, and those policies halted that progress, fomenting a negative feedback loop.

I would suggest it is more important to fix than to worry about offending, that is my main point here. And I sumbit that to forthrightly fix the problem government has created, we need to risk offending....

But hey, maybe we just keep doing what we have been, how is that working out?

[seafoam1 2,803]

22 minutes ago, RLLD said:

 

But your point remains....poverty. Of course that is one of the main drivers and it impacts a large swath of people. THis eventually becomes circular.  I point back to when the socieconomic progress for the AA was proceeding rather well.  And then they were struck by policy, and those policies halted that progress, fomenting a negative feedback loop.

I would suggest it is more important to fix than to worry about offending, that is my main point here. And I sumbit that to forthrightly fix the problem government has created, we need to risk offending....

But hey, maybe we just keep doing what we have been, how is that working out?

There are always going to be the impoverished. Here's what I did when I was young and poor and out in the world supporting myself. I stayed the hell away from criminal activity. Even if was frequent pot smokers at the time. Wasn't into being around that. If I lived in a bad area, all my activities would take place in good areas and at home I would keep to myself. I dated a lot but didn't push relationships because I wasn't settled in my own life yet and didn't want to try to build something based on the unknown of my future. I definitely didn't have kids because I couldn't raise  them properly while not being stable. I worked and worked and worked to be able to pay bills and relaxed with a couple beers when I could to enjoy my time with friends or just give at least a minor pat on the back for keeping things together. Then I started to excel in areas and could work a single job and eventually was able to start saving my money and from there everything got easier. The job was always the only tough part in life. And still is at times. But that's why they call it work. If it was easy, it wouldn't be a decent job. 

So the whole thing is, life can be hard, but if you do it the right way, you'll be fine in this country. It's people's choice to fock up or not. Make wrong decisions or not. Everyone makes a wrong decision here or there, but how that person chooses to handle it defines the merit of that person. 

People need to stop blaming the government and/or social programs and simply take care of their own in a proper, respectful way. 

I blame the government for being racist for the whole equity bullshlt, the overspending and deal cutting, the war mongering, the open borders, but not for the choices individuals make in life on their own behalf. The US hasn't fallen that far yet that they are controlling us from figuring out how to manage. Hopefully socialism stays out of the picture. I know many desire that. 

[bostonlager 2,664]

I've seen more than a few studies lately about aspartame in diet drinks and the impact it can have on memory and learning. Have we considered taking a similar look at grape drank? It may shed some light on why some people are always late and can't say the word ask. 

[edjr 6,578]

On 9/19/2023 at 9:34 AM, thegeneral said:

Sad and embarrassing. A nation of dopes and getting dumber. 

To vote D - Just like they want it. 

[RLLD 4,143]

1 hour ago, bostonlager said:

I've seen more than a few studies lately about aspartame in diet drinks and the impact it can have on memory and learning. Have we considered taking a similar look at grape drank? It may shed some light on why some people are always late and can't say the word ask. 

I infer this is at least a little tongue-in-cheek.   But your point has some merit, we should not underscore the importance of diet and access to healthy foods.

My son recently aged out of Boy Scouts, securing his Eagle before that point.   A big part of scouting is volunteerism, which I enjoyed participation with as well.  It was something we could do together and such.  A big effort we supported was putting together backpacks of food for kids in Baltimore City to take home over the weekend.  MANY of these kids only eat at school....and the weekend would be finding them starving.....it is a huge effort, and many churches are involved in helping get this done as well.

So imagine how hard it might be for one to do anything...if they are starving.....

[BuckSwope 654]

2 hours ago, RLLD said:

 

But your point remains....poverty. Of course that is one of the main drivers and it impacts a large swath of people. THis eventually becomes circular.  I point back to when the socieconomic progress for the AA was proceeding rather well.  And then they were struck by policy, and those policies halted that progress, fomenting a negative feedback loop.

I would suggest it is more important to fix than to worry about offending, that is my main point here. And I sumbit that to forthrightly fix the problem government has created, we need to risk offending....

But hey, maybe we just keep doing what we have been, how is that working out?

Can you please expand on what time frame you are talking about with the bolded and what specific policies you are talking about that halted it? 

 

Also, do you not agree that largely what comes from the right is "fix it yourself"?    I rarely read or hear specific ideas on what they would do or take away, just "fix your culture".   

 

[BuckSwope 654]

12 minutes ago, edjr said:

To vote D - Just like they want it. 

Hmm.  Doesn't that fly in the face of stats and education of voters and how they vote?  

[RLLD 4,143]

1 minute ago, BuckSwope said:

Can you please expand on what time frame you are talking about with the bolded and what specific policies you are talking about that halted it? 

 

Also, do you not agree that largely what comes from the right is "fix it yourself"?    I rarely read or hear specific ideas on what they would do or take away, just "fix your culture".   

 

Beginning in the 1940s, deep demographic and economic change, accompanied by a marked shift in white racial attitudes, started blacks down the road to much greater equality. New Deal legislation, which set minimum wages and hours and eliminated the incentive of southern employers to hire low-wage black workers, put a damper on further industrial development in the region. In addition, the trend toward mechanized agriculture and a diminished demand for American cotton in the face of international competition combined to displace blacks from the land.

As a consequence, with the shortage of workers in northern manufacturing plants following the outbreak of World War II, southern blacks in search of jobs boarded trains and buses in a Great Migration that lasted through the mid-1960s. They found what they were looking for: wages so strikingly high that in 1953 the average income for a black family in the North was almost twice that of those who remained in the South. And through much of the 1950s wages rose steadily and unemployment was low.

Thus by 1960 only one out of seven black men still labored on the land, and almost a quarter were in white-collar or skilled manual occupations. Another 24 percent had semiskilled factory jobs that meant membership in the stable working class, while the proportion of black women working as servants had been cut in half. Even those who did not move up into higher-ranking jobs were doing much better.

A decade later, the gains were even more striking. From 1940 to 1970, black men cut the income gap by about a third, and by 1970 they were earning (on average) roughly 60 percent of what white men took in. The advancement of black women was even more impressive. Black life expectancy went up dramatically, as did black homeownership rates. Black college enrollment also rose—by 1970 to about 10 percent of the total, three times the prewar figure.

In subsequent years these trends continued, although at a more leisurely pace. For instance, today more than 30 percent of black men and nearly 60 percent of black women hold white-collar jobs. Whereas in 1970 only 2.2 percent of American physicians were black, the figure is now 4.5 percent. But while the fraction of black families with middle-class incomes rose almost 40 percentage points between 1940 and 1970, it has inched up only another 10 points since then.

Source

 

Going back to the 1960's, the "War on Drugs" was really more of a war on minorities.....and then the movement to pay women more in benefits to not have a man in the home, raised the single parent rate from 20% to 70%.   The policies were perhaps, I say perhaps because I am still highly suspicious of Democrats, employed with the best of intentions.....but the outcomes have been steadily negative.

Every action has been to try to twist the world to better fit the AA situation, instead of following the remarkably successful method as employed by other minority groups to adjust their behaviors and buy into the meritocracy approach.

 

[TimHauck 2,620]

On 9/19/2023 at 10:22 AM, seafoam1 said:

The parents are as stupid as the kids. The only way to fix it is to stop the losers from having  kids. Good luck with that. 

So, you agree with not making it more difficult to get abortions?

[TimHauck 2,620]

14 hours ago, Engorgeous George said:

I find it interesting this thread went instantly to black achievement and black parenting and black urban styreet culture.  As i read the thread title this was about baltimore schools and No Students being proficient.  Would that not also implicate other races as well?  Seems to me lots of folks here lept to a racial supposition when they discuss only black achievement and not urban kid achievement.

Baltimore city public schools are 73% black.

https://www.baltimorecityschools.org/district-overview

 

[TimHauck 2,620]

On 9/19/2023 at 9:43 AM, TBayXXXVII said:

Agreed.  They won't get fixed because that would be racist and we can't discuss how to fix them.

How do you propose to fix them?  I’m assuming your suggestion of “talk to the parents” was a joke

[Hardcore troubadour 14,939]

At one time in Baltimore black kids could read and do math a lot better than they can now. So it has nothing to do with them being black. It’s something else. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,484]

26 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

How do you propose to fix them?  I’m assuming your suggestion of “talk to the parents” was a joke

No, it wasn't.  Instead of the Democrat leadership (locally and nationally), telling black people that they are victims and white conservatives hate them, how about taking the conservative approach and telling them that they aren't victims and that being more involved in their kids education will greatly improve their children's chances on a productive future.  That in turn will help their lives as well.

[TimHauck 2,620]

10 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

No, it wasn't.  

LOL

[TBayXXXVII 2,484]

3 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

LOL

Spoken like a true leftist.  Ignore ways to help and keep promoting things that won't, just so you can say that conservatives don't have answers.  You jump when your leftist masters tell you to, don't you?