War in Israel

[seafoam1 1,879]

1 minute ago, IGotWorms said:

Because Trump is in bed with Putin, and thus so are the MAGAtards. That is the answer to basically every question having to do with Russia and the Ukraine 

I would rather Trump be in bed with Putin and Russia not starting a war with Ukraine than biden being in bed with Zelensky and sending him 100s of billions of American dollars to keep a war alive. 

[IGotWorms 3,317]

2 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

I would rather Trump be in bed with Putin and Russia not starting a war with Ukraine than biden being in bed with Zelensky and sending him 100s of billions of American dollars to keep a war alive. 

Proof  

[seafoam1 1,879]

2 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Proof  

Troll 

[IGotWorms 3,317]

6 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Troll 

Troll?

I say MAGAtards support Putin because Trump does.

You say, you’re damn right I do!

[seafoam1 1,879]

2 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Troll?

I say MAGAtards support Putin because Trump does.

You say, you’re damn right I do!

Troll. 

[jerryskids 5,212]

55 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Because Israel is regarded as part of the West, and Palestinians are regarded as part of the Third World, and thus is this viewed, wrongly, as an issue of imperialism. That, and not anti-Semitism, is IMO at the root of the answer to your question. 

Excellent point.  Put another way, and this is a new way (for me anyway) to view the actions of the far Left:  they view the world as the "powerful" vs. the "powerless."  In this worldview, the powerless are given virtually carte blanche to behave however they want, in the name of overcoming the powerful.  This explains, for instance, the media's gaslighting and general indifference to the riots during the summer of love.  

[seafoam1 1,879]

3 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Troll?

I say MAGAtards support Putin because Trump does.

You say, you’re damn right I do!

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. You fail to realize that diplomacy goes beyond your liberal weak-minded "Pay me and I'll do favors for you" approach. 

[Mark Davis 172]

3 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Excellent point.  Put another way, and this is a new way (for me anyway) to view the actions of the far Left:  they view the world as the "powerful" vs. the "powerless."  In this worldview, the powerless are given virtually carte blanche to behave however they want, in the name of overcoming the powerful.  This explains, for instance, the media's gaslighting and general indifference to the riots during the summer of love.  

I actually thought the right had gone too far with worrying about the woke nonsense.  But seeing what we are now, this language and the use of these terms are essentially just Marxist views that I had really written off.  I had thought the characterization of campuses was a bit overdone, woke nonsense but nothing that harmful.  But it appears we have a bunch of Marxist nutjobs running loose out there on a lot of these campuses.  Also they have a naive view of what war is.  I'm nearing 50 and I can only comprehend it from what my dad's views were that shaped him in WWII.  War isn't clean and pretty, it isn't always precision strikes and civilians die.  To think otherwise and to try and hold Israel or the U.S. to those standards in dense urban areas is foolish.  It can't be done that way in densely populated areas.

[seafoam1 1,879]

Just now, Mark Davis said:

I actually thought the right had gone too far with worrying about the woke nonsense.  But seeing what we are now, this language and the use of these terms are essentially just Marxist views that I had really written off.  I had thought the characterization of campuses was a bit overdone, woke nonsense but nothing that harmful.  But it appears we have a bunch of Marxist nutjobs running loose out there on a lot of these campuses.  Also they have a naive view of what war is.  I'm nearing 50 and I can only comprehend it from what my dad's views were that shaped him in WWII.  War isn't clean and pretty, it isn't always precision strikes and civilians die.  To think otherwise and to try and hold Israel or the U.S. to those standards in dense urban areas is foolish.  It can't be done that way in densely populated areas.

You liberals really like to say "worried" and "scared" in place of simple dislike of something. 

Same thing with "phobic". 

[jerryskids 5,212]

1 minute ago, Mark Davis said:

I actually thought the right had gone too far with worrying about the woke nonsense.  But seeing what we are now, this language and the use of these terms are essentially just Marxist views that I had really written off.  I had thought the characterization of campuses was a bit overdone, woke nonsense but nothing that harmful.  But it appears we have a bunch of Marxist nutjobs running loose out there on a lot of these campuses.  Also they have a naive view of what war is.  I'm nearing 50 and I can only comprehend it from what my dad's views were that shaped him in WWII.  War isn't clean and pretty, it isn't always precision strikes and civilians die.  To think otherwise and to try and hold Israel or the U.S. to those standards in dense urban areas is foolish.  It can't be done that way in densely populated areas.

Yes, powerful vs. powerless is a sorta all-encompassing way of embracing Marxism.  It gets away from pesky limits like race.  Although there is some overlap; I would bet that the majority of Palestinian supporters (white liberals in the US anyway) have a mental image of Palestinians being much darker skinned than Israelis, although this is not the case.  But in their minds the two concepts fuse into a similar narrative.

[Mark Davis 172]

1 minute ago, seafoam1 said:

You liberals really like to say "worried" and "scared" in place of simple dislike of something. 

Same thing with "phobic". 

Haha I've been called a lot of things, but rarely liberal.  I demand an apology.

[blick 11]

3 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

I actually thought the right had gone too far with worrying about the woke nonsense.  But seeing what we are now, this language and the use of these terms are essentially just Marxist views that I had really written off.  I had thought the characterization of campuses was a bit overdone, woke nonsense but nothing that harmful.  But it appears we have a bunch of Marxist nutjobs running loose out there on a lot of these campuses.  Also they have a naive view of what war is.  I'm nearing 50 and I can only comprehend it from what my dad's views were that shaped him in WWII.  War isn't clean and pretty, it isn't always precision strikes and civilians die.  To think otherwise and to try and hold Israel or the U.S. to those standards in dense urban areas is foolish.  It can't be done that way in densely populated areas.

My grandfather fought in the Korean Wall.  I only ever heard him talk about it one time and all he talked about was how hard it was on the civilians (collateral damage, starvation, lost homes, etc.).  War is hell.

[Mark Davis 172]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

Yes, powerful vs. powerless is a sorta all-encompassing way of embracing Marxism.  It gets away from pesky limits like race.  Although there is some overlap; I would bet that the majority of Palestinian supporters (white liberals in the US anyway) have a mental image of Palestinians being much darker skinned than Israelis, although this is not the case.  But in their minds the two concepts fuse into a similar narrative.

Just those terms and ones like "colonizers".  It's basically language to try and portray ones own country as what is wrong in the world and wrong in history.  No country has done more for the betterment of the world in its history than the United States.  Our country hasn't been perfect.  But it's a dangerous view to allow to fester unchecked that somehow all these global ills track back to the West.

[IGotWorms 3,317]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Excellent point.  Put another way, and this is a new way (for me anyway) to view the actions of the far Left:  they view the world as the "powerful" vs. the "powerless."  In this worldview, the powerless are given virtually carte blanche to behave however they want, in the name of overcoming the powerful.  This explains, for instance, the media's gaslighting and general indifference to the riots during the summer of love.  

You’re not wrong, but exaggerating as always.

Take the current Israel/Palestinian conflict. The issue is that the powerful, Israel, has it within their power to stop the killing of innocents, right now.

The Palestinians do not have that power. Hamas already did it and it’s over for now.

So if you want the killings to stop, Israel is your only place to look right now, at this moment.

Certainly there are counters, like why should Hamas get away with it? And what’s to stop Hamas from attacking again in the future? But anyway, that’s your answer 

[jerryskids 5,212]

3 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

You’re not wrong, but exaggerating as always.

Take the current Israel/Palestinian conflict. The issue is that the powerful, Israel, has it within their power to stop the killing of innocents, right now.

The Palestinians do not have that power. Hamas already did it and it’s over for now.

So if you want the killings to stop, Israel is your only place to look right now, at this moment.

Certainly there are counters, like why should Hamas get away with it? And what’s to stop Hamas from attacking again in the future? But anyway, that’s your answer 

How exactly am I exaggerating?

And what stops Hamas from attacking again?  Certainly not Hamas, they just told you they will do it again and again.  From the previous page of this thread:

I wonder what you Lefties hear when Hamas says that they will repeat 10/7 again and again.  "Nah, they wouldn't do it.  I mean, we wouldn't do it, and everyone acts with our same moral code, right?"  Hamas is laughing at you and playing you like a fiddle.

Like @Baker Boylikes to say, don't be afraid to see what you see.

 

[GobbleDog 816]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t see how a Palestinian state would be less “controllable” for Israel than what is happening now. 

If Palestine were a state, Israel couldn't control what comes into their ports or borders. Small rockets would turn into giant missiles backed by a better trained/equipped army.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,662]

1 hour ago, IGotWorms said:

No, it wouldn’t have, idiot. Trump didn’t start that war and neither did Biden. W did (I’m sure with your cheerleading) and when he did that, the cut and run withdrawal became inevitable at that point. Biden just had the balls to do it after everyone else (including Obama) dithered for 20 focking years

Balls. That’s funny.  Having balls is great. Being reckless isn’t.  

[The Real timschochet 2,954]

47 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Excellent point.  Put another way, and this is a new way (for me anyway) to view the actions of the far Left:  they view the world as the "powerful" vs. the "powerless."  In this worldview, the powerless are given virtually carte blanche to behave however they want, in the name of overcoming the powerful.  This explains, for instance, the media's gaslighting and general indifference to the riots during the summer of love.  

Yes we generally agree on this overall point; my differences with you are a question of degree, particularly as it pertains to the USA. 
 

For instance I have never had a problem with the MSM’s coverage of the 2020 protests and riots. I believe they were fair; I know you don’t. Also I have no problem with woke on our college campuses. I have a problem with hate speech and violence, from any side, and with censorship from any side (that is public.) But I think modern day conservatives tend to find threads linking all of these issues and I reject that way of thinking. Each case is its own and should be analyzed as its own. I reject the idea of slippery slopes, always have. 

[IGotWorms 3,317]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

How exactly am I exaggerating?

And what stops Hamas from attacking again?  Certainly not Hamas, they just told you they will do it again and again.  From the previous page of this thread:

I wonder what you Lefties hear when Hamas says that they will repeat 10/7 again and again.  "Nah, they wouldn't do it.  I mean, we wouldn't do it, and everyone acts with our same moral code, right?"  Hamas is laughing at you and playing you like a fiddle.

Like @Baker Boylikes to say, don't be afraid to see what you see.

 

Where did I say otherwise? I’m just explaining why the calls are more directed to Israel than Hamas right now in this moment 

[jerryskids 5,212]

32 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Yes we generally agree on this overall point; my differences with you are a question of degree, particularly as it pertains to the USA. 
 

For instance I have never had a problem with the MSM’s coverage of the 2020 protests and riots. I believe they were fair; I know you don’t. Also I have no problem with woke on our college campuses. I have a problem with hate speech and violence, from any side, and with censorship from any side (that is public.) But I think modern day conservatives tend to find threads linking all of these issues and I reject that way of thinking. Each case is its own and should be analyzed as its own. I reject the idea of slippery slopes, always have. 

You have a college-aged daughter, no?  If so, I'm surprised you haven't seen woke on campuses.  Or maybe you do, but you don't realize it because you are on the ride along with it, so you don't feel it moving.

There are a lot of alumni concerned with the impact of woke, or specifically of censorship of un-woke ideas.  I belong to the MIT Free Speech Alliance (https://www.mitfreespeech.org/) and there are a growing number of similar groups forming across the country.  In fact, tonight our group is hosting a debate entitled "Is STEM racist?"  The idea of the group is not to advocate one side in any such argument, but rather to make sure both sides are heard.

 

[IGotWorms 3,317]

40 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Balls. That’s funny.  Having balls is great. Being reckless isn’t.  

20 years it needed to be done.

Four different presidents.

Biden was the one that actually stepped up to the plate.

Those are just facts.

[GobbleDog 816]

10 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

20 years it needed to be done.

Four different presidents.

Biden was the one that actually stepped up to the plate.

Those are just facts.

Agreed, it had to be done. Maybe not early, but after 10, 15, 20 years...

But it was done very poorly. The hasty retreat made the US look weak and untrustworthy. I don't know exactly how to leave in a dignified manner, but that sure as hell wasn't it.

[IGotWorms 3,317]

2 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

Agreed, it had to be done. Maybe not early, but after 10, 15, 20 years...

But it was done very poorly. The hasty retreat made the US look weak and untrustworthy. I don't know exactly how to leave in a dignified manner, but that sure as hell wasn't it.

There is no way. Bottom line, you are cutting and running

[League Champion 1,593]

 

[Baker Boy 1,485]

35 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

20 years it needed to be done.

Four different presidents.

Biden was the one that actually stepped up to the plate.

Those are just facts.

He stepped up to the plate and struck out on three pitched. He left $89 billion worth of military equipment, American citizens, and Afghani allies behind. 13 Americans soldiers were killed, the first Americans soldiers killed in Afghanistan in 18 months.

these are facts that you omitted, but they are facts.

[League Champion 1,593]

27 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Those are just facts.

No they're not. He couldn't of F'd it up worse. Biden handed them a Government, an army, American artillery and American Military bases. Why didn't he destroy everything first??? 

[Mike Hunt 154]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Because Israel is regarded as part of the West, and Palestinians are regarded as part of the Third World, and thus is this viewed, wrongly, as an issue of imperialism. That, and not anti-Semitism, is IMO at the root of the answer to your question. 

What about the outrage and protests in the US?, Very little protests about Russia bombardments of missiles and shelling of civilians. 

[League Champion 1,593]

 

[IGotWorms 3,317]

14 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

He stepped up to the plate and struck out on three pitched. He left $89 billion worth of military equipment, American citizens, and Afghani allies behind. 13 Americans soldiers were killed, the first Americans soldiers killed in Afghanistan in 18 months.

these are facts that you omitted, but they are facts.

It’s never pretty when you cut and run. It wasn’t in Vietnam, it wasn’t in Korea, it never has been anywhere. You are sitting ducks for potshots as you draw down and leave. It happens every time.

[listen2me 23 1,545]

2 minutes ago, League Champion said:

 

If this happened to an African American student for being black it would be blasted on thr news 24 7.   

Why the difference?   

[League Champion 1,593]

Just now, listen2me 23 said:

If this happened to an African American student for being black it would be blasted on thr news 24 7.   

Why the difference?   

Absolutely. The liberals love Hamas, what's that tell you? And for some reason the LGBTQ community loves Hamas. Do they realize that Hamas kills gays and transgenders??? 

[seafoam1 1,879]

4 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

If this happened to an African American student for being black it would be blasted on thr news 24 7.   

Why the difference?   

These people are not "African American". But they are black culture. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,662]

59 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

20 years it needed to be done.

Four different presidents.

Biden was the one that actually stepped up to the plate.

Those are just facts.

So it was handled well? The deaths and leaving behind the equipment, not even destroying it, was unavoidable? 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,662]

18 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

It’s never pretty when you cut and run. It wasn’t in Vietnam, it wasn’t in Korea, it never has been anywhere. You are sitting ducks for potshots as you draw down and leave. It happens every time.

Not Pretty? It was a disaster. My lord.  

[IGotWorms 3,317]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

So it was handled well? The deaths and leaving behind the equipment, not even destroying it, was unavoidable? 

It was handled about as well as a bad situation could be, yes. It was a bad hand that nobody had the courage to play for 20 years, including Trump, who had promised an exit from Afghanistan under his watch but who predictably kicked the can down the road instead (as did Obama).

[Hardcore troubadour 12,662]

1 minute ago, IGotWorms said:

It was handled about as well as a bad situation could be, yes. It was a bad hand that nobody had the courage to play for 20 years, including Trump, who had promised an exit from Afghanistan under his watch but who predictably kicked the can down the road instead (as did Obama).

Wrong.  Trump was drawing down and told the Taliban if they pull any shitt he was going to bomb the Fock out of them.  It was called the DOHA agreement and the troops were to be out by May of 2021. Biden moved it up for political purposes. He wanted to give a speech on 9/11. He canceled the speech. I wonder why? 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,662]

Miley and Austin advised Biden not to rush it. He didn’t listen. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,662]

Hey Worms, I know you won’t listen to facts, but a liberal writer named Franklin Foer wrote a book that came out in August called “ The Last Politician”.  It’s about Bidens first two years in office. I don’t expect you to read it, but at least read some of the excerpts about the Afghan withdrawal.  

[League Champion 1,593]

21 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

was handled about as well as a bad situation could be,

[Mike Hunt 154]

48 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

If this happened to an African American student for being black it would be blasted on thr news 24 7.   

Why the difference?   

It is a puzzling phenomenon.