War in Israel

[Mark Davis 388]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

We don’t notice the darker pigmentation part. We don’t group people that way. That’s your deal not ours. People who do bad stuff need to be stopped and punished. People who don’t shouldn’t be grouped with those that do. Which is what you’re doing here. 

It's really the only way the left views people.  Whether it's college admissions, hiring, or victimhood of groups to excuse their activities.  Those are all from the left.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,274]

Yeah, they don’t see skin color. I’m sure if a white drug addict named George Floyd with a history of violent felonies OD’d while a cop was arresting him the whole country would have been turned upside down and criminals would have been given free reign.  Yeah, Real Tim doesn’t see skin color.  Phony as Fock. 

[Gepetto 1,354]

I think the Liberals/Democrats/Left just support the opposite of whatever Conservatives/Republicans/The RIght think. How else can you explain their illogical thoughts and words that are extremely opposite on most every issue of what most on the Right think?

[thegeneral 3,121]

6 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

I think the Liberals/Democrats/Left just support the opposite of whatever Conservatives/Republicans/The RIght think. How else can you explain their illogical thoughts and words that are extremely opposite on most every issue of what most on the Right think?

What issues are you speaking of?

[Gepetto 1,354]

20 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

What issues are you speaking of?

abortion

gun control

tax philosophy

foreign policy (aid for Ukraine; Israel vs Palestine)

LGBTQ 

Immigration / southern border

the environment

welfare

healthcare

https://wp.lps.org/tnettle/files/2013/12/Liberal-vs-Conservative.pdf

[thegeneral 3,121]

16 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

abortion

gun control

tax philosophy

foreign policy (aid for Ukraine; Israel vs Palestine)

LGBTQ 

Immigration / southern border

the environment

welfare

healthcare

https://wp.lps.org/tnettle/files/2013/12/Liberal-vs-Conservative.pdf

Ok. Why wouldn’t there be opposing view points to any of these issues? Pick any of them and I can see legitimate points of disagreement (and I’m sure common ground as well).

[Gepetto 1,354]

1 hour ago, thegeneral said:

Ok. Why wouldn’t there be opposing view points to any of these issues? Pick any of them and I can see legitimate points of disagreement (and I’m sure common ground as well).

I don't understand why so many issues can be classified to Left or RIght and not there being more overlap. I for instance lean right on every issue probably but would be OK with more gun control. I just don't understand how the Left thinks the way they do on these issues. I don't understand their point of view or overall world view I guess is what I'm saying. 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

4 hours ago, jerryskids said:

First, you tell me how many is sufficient.

Ok, well to say it’s an “example of” something implies many. So I’d say 3-4, but I’ll tell you what, I’ll settle for just one more from Biden’s presidency 

[GobbleDog 992]

1 hour ago, Gepetto said:

abortion

gun control

tax philosophy

foreign policy (aid for Ukraine; Israel vs Palestine)

LGBTQ 

Immigration / southern border

the environment

welfare

healthcare

https://wp.lps.org/tnettle/files/2013/12/Liberal-vs-Conservative.pdf

Amazingly, many people agree with every major policy and social issue their party supports. Way too many of them on both sides. No critical thinking, just us-vs-them.

[thegeneral 3,121]

13 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

I don't understand why so many issues can be classified to Left or RIght and not there being more overlap. I for instance lean right on every issue probably but would be OK with more gun control. I just don't understand how the Left thinks the way they do on these issues. I don't understand their point of view or overall world view I guess is what I'm saying. 

Thats what makes the world go round. I mean I get why many people are on opposite sides of many of those items.

Some though I think many people are towards the middle and the people who make the most noise are the extremists.

[Patented Phil 1,469]

5 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sure. Produce a liberal who is pro-Hamas and I will explain. 

For a guy who fancies himself as worldly and well-informed, you really are ignorant as hell.  Per a recent Harvard-Harris poll, 48% of those aged 18-24 side with Hamas rather than Israel (page 42).  These aren’t uninformed opinions either.  51% of the 18-24 respondents say they are following the conflict “very closely” or “somewhat closely” (page 39).  Read the poll and wake the fock up.

[IGotWorms 4,057]

9 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

For a guy who fancies himself as worldly and well-informed, you really are ignorant as hell.  Per a recent Harvard-Harris poll, 48% of those aged 18-24 side with Hamas rather than Israel (page 42).  These aren’t uninformed opinions either.  51% of the 18-24 respondents say they are following the conflict “very closely” or “somewhat closely” (page 39).  Read the poll and wake the fock up.

Interesting, there is a rather pronounced gap in age vs opinion there

Thanks for posting

[Voltaire 5,281]

18 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

We don’t notice the darker pigmentation part. We don’t group people that way. That’s your deal not ours. People who do bad stuff need to be stopped and punished. People who don’t shouldn’t be grouped with those that do. Which is what you’re doing here. 

False. Race is 100% your obsession. Race is front and center on your minds not ours. Conservatives take the high ground of treating all people equally based on the content of their character, can see reality. Wheras liberals make it a point to notice and adjust their parochial approach and treat some people more equal than others.

[Voltaire 5,281]

17 hours ago, Mark Davis said:

It's really the only way the left views people.  Whether it's college admissions, hiring, or victimhood of groups to excuse their activities.  Those are all from the left.

This is exactly right. When conservatives address black audiences, they see them and treat them like adults and equals with respect, unlike liberals who dumb down their talk and treat black people like retards.

White liberals dumb themselves down when they speak to black people, a new study contends - The Washington Post

[Hardcore troubadour 15,274]

8 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

This is exactly right. When conservatives address black audiences, they see them and treat them like adults and equals with respect, unlike liberals who dumb down their talk and treat black people like retards.

White liberals dumb themselves down when they speak to black people, a new study contends - The Washington Post

“I don’t feel no ways tired”.  “They gonna put you all back in chains”.  Why black leadership accepts this routine is beyond me. 

[Reality 3,121]

20 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

False. Race is 100% your obsession. Race is front and center on your minds not ours. Conservatives take the high ground of treating all people equally based on the content of their character, can see reality. Wheras liberals make it a point to notice and adjust their parochial approach and treat some people more equal than others.

Perfectly stated and 100% correct.

[Sean Mooney 1,970]

20 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

False. Race is 100% your obsession. Race is front and center on your minds not ours. Conservatives take the high ground of treating all people equally based on the content of their character, can see reality. Wheras liberals make it a point to notice and adjust their parochial approach and treat some people more equal than others.

 

[Sean Mooney 1,970]

And just so we are clear- NO SIDE can claim to be above racial pandering....it just takes different forms. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,274]

You just never see conservatives putting on the step and fetch it talk.  If some politician started talking to me in a fake brogue I would tell them to Fock off.  But liberals don’t do that stuff to anyone but black people.  Imagine Biden or Hillary putting on a fake Latino voice? Or Jewish, or an exaggerated gay voice? They would never.  

[Gladiators 1,983]

35 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

False. Race is 100% your obsession. Race is front and center on your minds not ours. Conservatives take the high ground of treating all people equally based on the content of their character, can see reality. Wheras liberals make it a point to notice and adjust their parochial approach and treat some people more equal than others.

Yep. You nailed it

[The Real timschochet 6,651]

10 hours ago, Patented Phil said:

For a guy who fancies himself as worldly and well-informed, you really are ignorant as hell.  Per a recent Harvard-Harris poll, 48% of those aged 18-24 side with Hamas rather than Israel (page 42).  These aren’t uninformed opinions either.  51% of the 18-24 respondents say they are following the conflict “very closely” or “somewhat closely” (page 39).  Read the poll and wake the fock up.

Any informed person who supports Hamas is not, by definition, a liberal. Many of those who support Hamas may be extreme leftists but a leftist is not, by definition, a liberal. 

[The Real timschochet 6,651]

45 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

False. Race is 100% your obsession. Race is front and center on your minds not ours. Conservatives take the high ground of treating all people equally based on the content of their character, can see reality. Wheras liberals make it a point to notice and adjust their parochial approach and treat some people more equal than others.

This is your fantasy view of yourself and your dark fantasy view of the other side. It’s how you want to see yourself, and it’s admirable to a certain degree. It demonstrates why you are not a racist and why I would never call you a racist. 

Unfortunately it’s a completely false narrative. The reality is that racism against dark people  continues to be prevalent in our society and because of your viewpoint that it doesn’t you oppose all efforts to alleviate it. Worse, the bigots in this country know this which is why they flock to your side, even though you’re not one of them. Worse, you tolerate their presence. Worst of all, you’re about to nominate one of them to be your candidate for President for the third time in a row. These are contradictions conservatives will have to solve before they can ever claim to be free of the charge I made in my last post to you. 

[jerryskids 6,732]

11 hours ago, IGotWorms said:

Ok, well to say it’s an “example of” something implies many. So I’d say 3-4, but I’ll tell you what, I’ll settle for just one more from Biden’s presidency 

I see you added the "Biden's presidency" caveat.  Without that, I might mention how Biden advised Obama to not go after Bin Laden.

In general, the picture of Biden as weak militarily is an easy one to paint.  Under Trump we had peace, including the Abraham Accords.  Since Biden took over, in addition to and perhaps emboldened by Afghanistan, Putin has invaded Ukraine, Hamas started a war with Israel, and China is creeping up on Taiwan.  The US is being invaded at its southern border and we are unable or unwilling to stop it.  

[The Real timschochet 6,651]

8 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I see you added the "Biden's presidency" caveat.  Without that, I might mention how Biden advised Obama to not go after Bin Laden.

In general, the picture of Biden as weak militarily is an easy one to paint.  Under Trump we had peace, including the Abraham Accords.  Since Biden took over, in addition to and perhaps emboldened by Afghanistan, Putin has invaded Ukraine, Hamas started a war with Israel, and China is creeping up on Taiwan.  The US is being invaded at its southern border and we are unable or unwilling to stop it.  

Biden’s standing up to Russia and strengthening of NATO, neither of which Trump would ever have done, shows that he is a much stronger leader than Trump. I believe Biden is much better than Trump was with regard to both Israel and China, though with the latter there have been some mistakes (mainly maintaining Trump’s disastrous tariffs.) With regard to the border Biden is unwilling to repeat Trump’s terrible measures and Republicans in Congress refuse to give us immigration reform which is the only thing that would solve that problem. 
 

In truth it’s difficult to assess Biden’s foreign policy because Trump was so weak and so awful in just about every way you can think of. Biden could do nothing and still come off as a genius by comparison. But he has done a lot of very good things. I give him a B+ and an A+ if we’re grading on a curve. Trump of course gets an F no matter how one grades it. 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

17 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I see you added the "Biden's presidency" caveat.  Without that, I might mention how Biden advised Obama to not go after Bin Laden.

In general, the picture of Biden as weak militarily is an easy one to paint.  Under Trump we had peace, including the Abraham Accords.  Since Biden took over, in addition to and perhaps emboldened by Afghanistan, Putin has invaded Ukraine, Hamas started a war with Israel, and China is creeping up on Taiwan.  The US is being invaded at its southern border and we are unable or unwilling to stop it.  

So basically nothing else, not from his presidency anyway. Biden’s response to the Ukraine invasion could not have been better 

[Patented Phil 1,469]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Any informed person who supports Hamas is not, by definition, a liberal. Many of those who support Hamas may be extreme leftists but a leftist is not, by definition, a liberal. 

You’ve been hanging around Squissy too long.

[TimHauck 2,731]

2 hours ago, Voltaire said:

This is exactly right. When conservatives address black audiences, they see them and treat them like adults and equals with respect, 

Does this include the ones on this site who on multiple occasions stereotype blacks by criticizing "black culture"?

[Sean Mooney 1,970]

Now it's a "Southern Border invasion"...

 

Geez

[Hardcore troubadour 15,274]

16 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

So basically nothing else, not from his presidency anyway. Biden’s response to the Ukraine invasion could not have been better 

How about before the invasion? 

[Patented Phil 1,469]

27 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Biden’s standing up to Russia and strengthening of NATO, neither of which Trump would ever have done, shows that he is a much stronger leader than Trump. I believe Biden is much better than Trump was with regard to both Israel and China, though with the latter there have been some mistakes (mainly maintaining Trump’s disastrous tariffs.) With regard to the border Biden is unwilling to repeat Trump’s terrible measures and Republicans in Congress refuse to give us immigration reform which is the only thing that would solve that problem. 
 

In truth it’s difficult to assess Biden’s foreign policy because Trump was so weak and so awful in just about every way you can think of. Biden could do nothing and still come off as a genius by comparison. But he has done a lot of very good things. I give him a B+ and an A+ if we’re grading on a curve. Trump of course gets an F no matter how one grades it. 

If you look at, you know, actual results - Trump had a remarkably successful Presidency as respects foreign policy.  First President since Jimmy Carter not to enter U.S. troops Into new conflict.  

 

[The Real timschochet 6,651]

10 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

You’ve been hanging around Squissy too long.

He’s a good dude. But I don’t get my views from him. 
Look, you know what a liberal is, right? You can disagree with us all you want, but you gotta know that a liberal isn’t down with Hamas. Can’t be. We don’t go for indiscriminate killing of innocent people, or terrorism. Doesn’t exactly jive with free love and peace does it? We’re into the hippie vibe, flowers in the hair, pass a few joints around. We don’t want to hurt anybody. 

[The Real timschochet 6,651]

2 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

If you look at, you know, actual results - Trump had a remarkably successful Presidency as respects foreign policy.  Not one single conflict.

Most conflicts result from the actions of previous administrations. Russia invaded Ukraine, for instance, because Trump spent his entire term weakening Ukraine for his own personal bullsh!t and sucking up to Putin. By the time Biden came in the table had already been set. 
 

Trump was dealt a great hand by Obama. He made a mess of things. Biden was dealt a terrible hand by Trump. He’s trying his best to fix things. That’s basically the proper way to look at it. 

[Patented Phil 1,469]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

He’s a good dude. But I don’t get my views from him. 
Look, you know what a liberal is, right? You can disagree with us all you want, but you gotta know that a liberal isn’t down with Hamas. Can’t be. We don’t go for indiscriminate killing of innocent people, or terrorism. Doesn’t exactly jive with free love and peace does it? We’re into the hippie vibe, flowers in the hair, pass a few joints around. We don’t want to hurt anybody. 

I understand what you’re saying. I’m a mix between traditional Liberal, Libertarian, with a few Conservative ideals mixed in.  I don’t like the hard-core Right and I despise the hard-core Left.

[Patented Phil 1,469]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Most conflicts result from the actions of previous administrations. Russia invaded Ukraine, for instance, because Trump spent his entire term weakening Ukraine for his own personal bullsh!t and sucking up to Putin. By the time Biden came in the table had already been set. 
 

Trump was dealt a great hand by Obama. He made a mess of things. Biden was dealt a terrible hand by Trump. He’s trying his best to fix things. That’s basically the proper way to look at it. 

You should start a topic about why Russia invaded Ukraine. I don’t agree with your assessment, but it’s a difficult question to answer.  Personally, I think it has more to do with Russia’s concern about having a buffer between itself and NATO.  

[TimHauck 2,731]

20 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Now it's a "Southern Border invasion"...

 

Geez

They’ve been saying that for awhile now.  Was not expecting jerry to respond with that when asked specifically about the military though…

[Voltaire 5,281]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Biden’s standing up to Russia and strengthening of NATO, neither of which Trump would ever have done, shows that he is a much stronger leader than Trump. I believe Biden is much better than Trump was with regard to both Israel and China, though with the latter there have been some mistakes (mainly maintaining Trump’s disastrous tariffs.) With regard to the border Biden is unwilling to repeat Trump’s terrible measures and Republicans in Congress refuse to give us immigration reform which is the only thing that would solve that problem. 
 

In truth it’s difficult to assess Biden’s foreign policy because Trump was so weak and so awful in just about every way you can think of. Biden could do nothing and still come off as a genius by comparison. But he has done a lot of very good things. I give him a B+ and an A+ if we’re grading on a curve. Trump of course gets an F no matter how one grades it. 

First, note how Russia didn't attack anyone during Trump's presidency as it did under Bush the Dumber (Georgia), Obama (Crimea), and Biden (Ukraine). Also Trump kept the Obama-era sanctions from the Crimea invasion on place. 

Second... here's President Trump warning both the Germans they are too reliant on Russian oil and urging NATO members to up their share of military budgets.

Third, here's President Trump blocking the oil pipeline from Russia to Germany with sanctions https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/us-sanctions-block-putins-pipeline/ and here's Biden lifting those sanctions. https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114185/documents/HHRG-117-GO00-20211028-SD006.pdf

Fourth, Trump sold weapons to Ukraine that Obama had blocked. These are four cases of Trump taking a harder line against Russia than either Biden or his boss took.

He also expelled dozens of Russian officials after the Kremlin poisoned that guy in Britain, and he blew up Syrian bungholes despite Russian protests.

 

Some of us have a memory that goes back before the "we have always been at war with Eastasia"-esque propaganda of the MSM. 

[The Real timschochet 6,651]

6 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

First, note how Russia didn't attack anyone during Trump's presidency as it did under Bush the Dumber (Georgia), Obama (Crimea), and Biden (Ukraine). Also Trump kept the Obama-era sanctions from the Crimea invasion on place. 

Second... here's President Trump warning both the Germans they are too reliant on Russian oil and urging NATO members to up their share of military budgets.

Third, here's President Trump blocking the oil pipeline from Russia to Germany with sanctions https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/us-sanctions-block-putins-pipeline/ and here's Biden lifting those sanctions. https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114185/documents/HHRG-117-GO00-20211028-SD006.pdf

Fourth, Trump sold weapons to Ukraine that Obama had blocked. These are four cases of Trump taking a harder line against Russia than either Biden or his boss took.

He also expelled dozens of Russian officials after the Kremlin poisoned that guy in Britain, and he blew up Syrian bungholes despite Russian protests.

 

Some of us have a memory that goes back before the "we have always been at war with Eastasia"-esque propaganda of the MSM. 

Yeah we definitely disagree about ALL of this. 

But that’s cool. I could rebut you point by point, or I could watch college football. Easy choice. Enjoy your Saturday! 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

26 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

If you look at, you know, actual results - Trump had a remarkably successful Presidency as respects foreign policy.  First President since Jimmy Carter not to enter U.S. troops Into new conflict.  

 

Neither has Biden. And that’s great for both of them

[thegeneral 3,121]

7 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

First, note how Russia didn't attack anyone during Trump's presidency as it did under Bush the Dumber (Georgia), Obama (Crimea), and Biden (Ukraine). Also Trump kept the Obama-era sanctions from the Crimea invasion on place. 

Second... here's President Trump warning both the Germans they are too reliant on Russian oil and urging NATO members to up their share of military budgets.

Third, here's President Trump blocking the oil pipeline from Russia to Germany with sanctions https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/us-sanctions-block-putins-pipeline/ and here's Biden lifting those sanctions. https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114185/documents/HHRG-117-GO00-20211028-SD006.pdf

Fourth, Trump sold weapons to Ukraine that Obama had blocked. These are four cases of Trump taking a harder line against Russia than either Biden or his boss took.

He also expelled dozens of Russian officials after the Kremlin poisoned that guy in Britain, and he blew up Syrian bungholes despite Russian protests.

 

Some of us have a memory that goes back before the "we have always been at war with Eastasia"-esque propaganda of the MSM. 

I’d say Biden has taken a harder line against Russia than any Prez in past 40 years or so if that is a measuring stick.

 

[jerryskids 6,732]

I'm listening to the latest Bari Weiss interview with Walter Russell Mead, very informative:

Quote

There are a lot of experts that you may have heard on the news in the past few weeks. People who know a great deal about Hamas or Hezbollah or Iran or China or Russia—regional experts. There are also many subject matter experts who can tell us about cyber warfare or decolonization or, for example, the way that foreign governments have influenced higher education in America. All of those stories are important, but each one of those topics gives you only a slice of the whole story. What if you want to understand the whole thing?

That’s when you turn to Walter Russell Mead.

Mead, who is a columnist for The Wall Street Journal, a professor of foreign affairs and humanities at Bard College, and the author of many profound books, is able to connect what can seem like disparate dots and pull them together to show us the big picture. That’s especially critical right now. Because despite what you read in the headlines, this isn’t just a war between a terrorist group called Hamas and a small Jewish country called Israel. This is the bleeding edge of something much more widespread that has the potential to touch the lives of every American. 

Right after we recorded this conversation with Walter, Yemen declared war on Israel—with Houthi rebels firing missiles at the city of Eilat—and, in a major provocation from China, Israel was removed from Baidu Maps, China’s digital maps, late on Monday night. Though I didn’t get to talk to Walter about these discrete developments, in many ways they confirm exactly what Walter expresses in this conversation: that this war isn’t just a regional conflict. That it is representative of a world, as he puts it, “spinning out of control.”

https://www.thefp.com/p/a-world-spinning-out-of-control-521

He basically posits that this is not a war between Hamas and Israel, but with Iran and its desire to control the entire Middle East.

He knocks on American foreign policy back to our invasion of Iraq, which was then the country in the ME large enough to keep Iran in check.  By knocking out Iraq, we let Iran run free.  Also, Biden continues the policy of Iran appeasement started by Obama.  The theory goes that there are a lot of pro-West people in Iran (probably true) and if we are too hard on Iran, we'll just embolden them against us.  This approach failed with Stalin and Hitler, and seems to be failing here (I'm not saying Iran is a superpower of that stature).

Anyway, with talks heating up between Israel and Saudi Arabia and more permanent peace, his thought is that Iran called up Hamas and said it was time to rake a little muck.  And here we are.