Mother of teen shooter found guilty

[The Real timschochet 2,939]

I’m not sure I feel about this. The mother certainly seems irresponsible. But I’m troubled by the message that it might send about individual responsibility. Thoughts? 

[The Psychic Observer 193]

Good.  She's a crap mother.  Parents need to do a better job raising their children.

[cyclone24 1,814]

Im for whatever punishes all these “responsible “ gun owners

[The Real timschochet 2,939]

1 minute ago, The Psychic Observer said:

Good.  She's a crap mother.  Parents need to do a better job raising their children.

Yes but should we prosecute people for being bad parents? 
Maybe we should. But I’m not sure, it doesn’t seem like an easy question to me. 

[Strike 3,979]

Good. 

[The Psychic Observer 193]

13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Yes but should we prosecute people for being bad parents? 
Maybe we should. But I’m not sure, it doesn’t seem like an easy question to me. 

Yes we should.

[The Real timschochet 2,939]

2 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

Yes we should.

Well I’m not really a slippery slope kind of guy but it seems a little problematic to me. If my 16 year old son is an alcoholic and he drives while drunk and kills somebody, am I responsible if I had liquor around in my house? Is that a decent analogy? 

[The Psychic Observer 193]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well I’m not really a slippery slope kind of guy but it seems a little problematic to me. If my 16 year old son is an alcoholic and he drives while drunk and kills somebody, am I responsible if I had liquor around in my house? Is that a decent analogy? 

If you bought him liquor and knew he was an alcoholic and gave him your keys with a bottle of vodka, yes, you're responsible.

[The Real timschochet 2,939]

2 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

If you bought him liquor and knew he was an alcoholic and gave him your keys with a bottle of vodka, yes, you're responsible.

Fair point. Though this mother didn’t know the son was a mass shooter. 

[supermike80 1,286]

Yeah I'm not sure about this one.  She clearly was a crappy mom..but man, I don't know if that makes her guilty of manslaughter.   Dumb

[kilroy69 994]

This is the continuation of their punishment. They are both going to have the same thing happen. Both were held for almost 3 years before their trial, they were convicted by a jury that was pissed off and it will be overturned on appeal. By that time they will have spent 5-6 years of their life in prison or jail. This opens a can of worms that could lead to all kinds of strange outcomes.  

[TheNewGirl 1,031]

33 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Fair point. Though this mother didn’t know the son was a mass shooter. 

Do we really know WHO is going to be a mass shooter? 

I don't even know which case you're referring to, so I can't really comment on his mental state, mental health history, access to guns, etc. 

 

39 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well I’m not really a slippery slope kind of guy but it seems a little problematic to me. If my 16 year old son is an alcoholic and he drives while drunk and kills somebody, am I responsible if I had liquor around in my house? Is that a decent analogy? 

If you have a son who is an alcoholic and you have unlocked/unsecured liquor in your house, you could be held responsible...or if he has easy access to a vehicle, or if you're the insured. 

Even if he isn't drunk and goes out and kills someone you can be held liable. 

[Twinsdad 44]

I don't disagree with the verdict.  Based on info that has come out since the shooting, I have felt the parents bore some responsibility.

Of the two options the jury had to consider, I would guess that most if not all agreed with the "grossly negligent in providing care" over "failure to provide reasonable care".  

 

[Twinsdad 44]

4 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

I don't even know which case you're referring to, so I can't really comment on his mental state, mental health history, access to guns, etc. 

local news link

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2024/02/06/mother-of-oxford-high-school-shooter-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-landmark-ruling/

[Strike 3,979]

Some of you act as if this is a new thing.  Parental responsibility laws have been around forever:

https://www.findlaw.com/family/parental-rights-and-liability/parental-liability.html

Hey, if you don't want to raise a child right, don't have them.  FFS.

[TheNewGirl 1,031]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

Some of you act as if this is a new thing.  Parental responsibility laws have been around forever:

https://www.findlaw.com/family/parental-rights-and-liability/parental-liability.html

Hey, if you don't want to raise a child right, don't have them.  FFS.

That is what is confusing me too...I remember that I was under a pretty tight leash while I was living at home and under 18. My dad had firearms, so therefore no friends over when my parents weren't home. It was a pretty strict/rule in my house. 

I am glad the mom is being held accountable, isn't this what a lot of folks are asking for? More accountability from the parents for the teens and younger folks who end up getting a hold of guns and end up killing people? Why are we thinking this is suddenly a bad thing? 

[TheNewGirl 1,031]

5 minutes ago, Twinsdad said:

local news link

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2024/02/06/mother-of-oxford-high-school-shooter-found-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-in-landmark-ruling/

Well even the article states this:

Quote

 

Reasonable care involves a parent’s duty to take action to control a child when it’s necessary to prevent harm. Gross negligence means “willfully disregarding the results to others that might result from an act or failure to act.”

In other words, prosecutors had to show that Crumbley knew or should have known that her son was a danger to others and taken action to prevent him from being able to take that harmful action.

 

They must have shown that she willfully disregarded the fact that her son could harm someone and/or that he was a danger to others...and she didn't take action to try and prevent that. 

Either disregarding that he needed help, or being negligent about firearms. 

Good. She should be reprimanded. Be a responsible gun owner and don't be a shiiite parent. 

[Strike 3,979]

3 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

That is what is confusing me too...I remember that I was under a pretty tight leash while I was living at home and under 18. My dad had firearms, so therefore no friends over when my parents weren't home. It was a pretty strict/rule in my house. 

I am glad the mom is being held accountable, isn't this what a lot of folks are asking for? More accountability from the parents for the teens and younger folks who end up getting a hold of guns and end up killing people? Why are we thinking this is suddenly a bad thing? 

Because to them the only solution is the banning of guns.  Any other measure is unacceptable.

[The Psychic Observer 193]

10 minutes ago, Strike said:

Hey, if you don't want to raise a child right, don't have them.  FFS.

Too bad abortion is becoming illegal.

[Strike 3,979]

1 minute ago, The Psychic Observer said:

Too bad abortion is becoming illegal.

Yeah, if only we had a way of a person not being required to raise a child they don't want.  Let's create something like that.  We can call it.......adoption.  I just made up that word.  It didn't exist until just now.  Adoption.  What a great word.  Now if we can only get our legislators to pass laws making it legal. 

[Maximum Overkill 645]

2 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

Too bad abortion is becoming illegal.

Good thing your girl had so many that her liberal uterus fell out

[Strike 3,979]

Just now, Maximum Overkill said:

Good thing your girl had so many that her liberal uterus fell out

Too bad his mother didn't.

[Maximum Overkill 645]

Just now, Strike said:

Too bad his mother didn't.

He's a Liberal load that should of been swallowed. 

[The Real timschochet 2,939]

5 minutes ago, Strike said:

Because to them the only solution is the banning of guns.  Any other measure is unacceptable.

Thats not the issue that’s bothering me. And I don’t mind this woman being held to a certain level of responsibility: civil. 

What bothers me is the prison time. This mom acted irresponsibly but she clearly did not intend for her son to go on a shooting spree. Yet she’s going to prison. I’m not comfortable with that. But I’m also not saying it’s wrong. I’m just not sure, 

[Strike 3,979]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Thats not the issue that’s bothering me. And I don’t mind this woman being held to a certain level of responsibility: civil. 

What bothers me is the prison time. This mom acted irresponsibly but she clearly did not intend for her son to go on a shooting spree. Yet she’s going to prison. I’m not comfortable with that. But I’m also not saying it’s wrong. I’m just not sure, 

You don't have to intend for something to happen to go to prison.  If she'd been convicted of something intentional she'd be going to prison for a much longer time. 

[TheNewGirl 1,031]

30 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Thats not the issue that’s bothering me. And I don’t mind this woman being held to a certain level of responsibility: civil. 

What bothers me is the prison time. This mom acted irresponsibly but she clearly did not intend for her son to go on a shooting spree. Yet she’s going to prison. I’m not comfortable with that. But I’m also not saying it’s wrong. I’m just not sure, 

Negligence is that she knew he had an issue, yet took no steps to protect himself or others; they didn't need to and couldn't prove intent unless they had actual proof that she said, "Here is a gun, go kill some people with it." Then that's an entirely different charge for her. 

She also hasn't even been sentenced yet, which could be a few years to decades. It's involuntary manslaughter. Again...same charge if she killed someone with her car and her son wasn't involved at all. She (and her husband, who goes to trial separately according to the article) were negligent about their son and his danger to others. 

 

 

Adding: The more I read my own response, the more I am okay with this outcome for the parents. They knew he had an issue. They did nothing. Other kids died. Yeah, they need to do the time. 

[listen2me 23 1,542]

I haven't really paid a ton attention to this one.  But I am probably fine with it.   

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,585]

I support this 100%, she is responsible

 

[BunnysBastatrds 1,918]

1 hour ago, Strike said:

Some of you act as if this is a new thing.  Parental responsibility laws have been around forever:

https://www.findlaw.com/family/parental-rights-and-liability/parental-liability.html

Hey, if you don't want to raise a child right, don't have them.  FFS.

This/ There was a story here thirty plus years ago about a monster mother who would send her juvenile kids on crime sprees. Then she upped her game and had them play in traffic on Carrollton Ave. Told them whoever gets hit, gets Popeyes every night this year. All of them got hit. Some kind of bad, and some just bumps and bruises. The cops were baffled by four kids getting hit within an hour on a big uptown thoroughfare. They questioned the kids in their mommy’s presence and all said they were waiting for their dinner. She did it to get attorneys after and sue all. Sad. But she did a lot of time in the penitentiary and never received a dime of any money. 

[5-Points 2,729]

If the parents in this case can be held accountable, the school administration should be as well. They all knew this kid was a whackjob and they let him stay in the school. 

He wrote things like "blood everywhere" and drew pictures of guns on his schoolwork. You can't tell me they didn't know he was a problem, or about to be one. 

[edjr 5,567]

2 hours ago, TheNewGirl said:

Do we really know WHO is going to be a mass shooter? 

peefoam

[seafoam1 1,879]

29 minutes ago, edjr said:

peefoam

I damaged boogerEdjr too. I didn't think anyone could be more obsessed than pimpledoosh and generaldoosh. 

[IGotWorms 3,315]

I’m okay with this because it might incentivize parents to make sure their batsh1t loony school shooter kids don’t have access to assault weapons and such. Seems like common sense should govern there but obviously it doesn’t always

[easilyscan 559]

Definitely a slippery slope. Reminds me of a tragedy from 7 or 8 years ago. One of those a holes who had something like 25+ alcohol related driving offenses in the previous 4 years, finally graduated to murder by driving drunk and taking out a family of 4. Someone posted that anyone who gets a DUI, even if it's a 1st offense, & even if it's right @ the legal limit of 0.08% & isn't involved in any kind of accident, should get 5 years in prison. My thinking is that if this guys mother/father - brother/sister - son/daughter - niece/nephew - even a grandmother/grandfather screwed up one night and got a DUI, he'd be begging for leniency. Be careful what you wish for. 

[Kopy 491]

16 hours ago, Strike said:

Some of you act as if this is a new thing.  Parental responsibility laws have been around forever:

https://www.findlaw.com/family/parental-rights-and-liability/parental-liability.html

Hey, if you don't want to raise a child right, don't have them.  FFS.

Agreed.

Because she was a crappy parent. Now some parents aren't parents anymore.

[kilroy69 994]

So they charged the kid as an adult and then charged the parents for whet he did as a minor? Or what he did as an adult? I mean if it is the  This is bound to be overturned on appeal. 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,520]

If this is going to be the trend, can we now start arresting all the single mothers?  The number of criminals in prison raised by single mothers is like 90%.

[MDC 5,892]

13 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

If this is going to be the trend, can we now start arresting all the single mothers?  The number of criminals in prison raised by single mothers is like 90%.

Arrest the parent who didn’t abandon the kid?

[seafoam1 1,879]

3 minutes ago, MDC said:

Arrest the parent who didn’t abandon the kid?

1:52pm 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,520]

25 minutes ago, MDC said:

Arrest the parent who didn’t abandon the kid?

We ALREADY go after the fathers, but now it's time to go after the mothers if this case is going to be the new standard.  Give the kid back to the father - studies have shown that kids who grow up with single-fathers are vastly more likely to be better adults.  Of course, two-parent homes (male and female) are still the best.

All I'm saying is that if we're going to go after parents now for raising and contributing to the delinquency of a child, it's time to go after one of the biggest factors in determining whether your child will be a detriment to society: single mothers.

One link: https://medium.com/the-knowledge-of-freedom/single-father-households-do-vastly-better-than-single-mother-heres-the-real-reason-why-8a7fd7c5611d

Note: I'm joking, of course, but this case is setting a new bar.