Don't say I didn't warn you about the Muslims

[DankNuggs 305]

100%? Really? So this Breivik guy in Norway, Timothy McVeigh, The Unabomber, etc. ... were they all muslims too?

 

BTW I am vehemently against blowing our citizens up too. I just don't think you can say that all muslims want to blow our citizens up or that all those who would blow our citizens up are muslim.

Finding a couple one offs doesn't change reality.. I believe there is a vast segment of peaceful muslims who are wonderful people. I think people putting %'s on it are just talking out of their azz and have absolutely no clue.

 

And we have examples of homegrown wack jobs who no doubt are dangerous as well. In some respect those home grown wackjobs are trying to enforce a theocratic power structure with a holy war type of bent that these middle eastern muslim countries have developed and operate under.

 

They believe their christian rules (for example) trump societal rules on say abortion...

[Strike 4,042]

There are about 1.5 billion Muslims in the world (that's a conservative estimate). If you think 5% do or want to blow up Americans, that amounts to 75 million people.

 

Seems kinda high, don't it?

 

No.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,940]

100%? Really? So this Breivik guy in Norway, Timothy McVeigh, The Unabomber, etc. ... were they all muslims too?

 

BTW I am vehemently against blowing our citizens up too. I just don't think you can say that all muslims want to blow our citizens up or that all those who would blow our citizens up are muslim.

 

 

Can you at least acknowledge that the vast majority of peope who blow sh!t up around the world today are Muslims?

[IGotWorms 3,367]

Can you at least acknowledge that the vast majority of peope who blow sh!t up around the world today are Muslims?

 

Vast majority? No.

 

It does seem from anecdotal evidence that Muslims are over represented in this demographic, but that may just be a matter of perspective. If you lived in a country where the US has caused a lot of collateral damage you would probably think and hear that we are all terrorists.

[IGotWorms 3,367]

No.

 

You believe there are seventy-five million Muslim terrorists in the world?

[DankNuggs 305]

Vast majority? No. It does seem from anecdotal evidence that Muslims are over represented in this demographic, but that may just be a matter of perspective. If you lived in a country where the US has caused a lot of collateral damage you would probably think and hear that we are all terrorists.

So we are equating military operations to domestic/international terrorism?

[IGotWorms 3,367]

So we are equating military operations to domestic/international terrorism?

 

I am not. But if you lived in iraq or Afghanistan, you might.

[porkbutt 865]

let me guess without reading this thread....

 

OP says something bad about muslims...then maybe 3 posts in the usual queer libbos start talking about how christianity is just as bad - "there were two abortion clinic bombings in 1987!!!" "remember the crusades 1000 years ago!" blah blah blah...then the super enlightened doosh bags start in about how all religion is a sham blah blah blah...

 

fockin retards. open your eyes. do you ever see any outrage in the muslim community over this sh;t every day??? i honestly never saw a muslim charity...do they exist??? muslim hospitals??? reaching out to help the community???

[DankNuggs 305]

let me guess without reading this thread....

 

OP says something bad about muslims...then maybe 3 posts in the usual queer libbos start talking about how christianity is just as bad - "there were two abortion clinic bombings in 1987!!!" "remember the crusades 1000 years ago!" blah blah blah...then the super enlightened doosh bags start in about how all religion is a sham blah blah blah...

 

fockin retards. open your eyes. do you ever see any outrage in the muslim community over this sh;t every day??? i honestly never saw a muslim charity...do they exist??? muslim hospitals??? reaching out to help the community???

They build mosques as signs of territorial conquest... I think they've adopted liberalism as they've spun them as 'cultural centers'

[DankNuggs 305]

I am not. But if you lived in iraq or Afghanistan, you might.

if you did you;d also realize they don't condemn the behavior, their society is based on brutality and repression.

[MDC 5,933]

...then the super enlightened doosh bags start in about how all religion is a sham blah blah blah...

 

[Strike 4,042]

You believe there are seventy-five million Muslim terrorists in the world?

 

I believe there are 75 million who have no problem with people or things in the Western world going kaboom. The vast majority will never act upon those feelings for various reasons. Doesn't mean they don't feel that way.

[jerryskids 5,276]

Comparisons were made here regarding the crusades: the crusades were started to liberate Jerusalem and to protect the Byzantines against Muslim attacks. A noble purpose in theory, but in practice... we saw how that turned out. Men given the religious OK to use force very much abused it. The same has happened for the entire existence of Islam. There may not be explicit orders in the Quran to commit honor killings, or terrorist attacks, or to kill a person because they won't convert to Islam... but there seems to be a lot of gray area in prohibiting them, and those events are performed and condoned by entire nations under Islamic theocracies.

 

Does that mean every Muslim in the world is evil? Of course not. But I find myself wondering: if so many Muslims oppose these activities, why not create a new sect? A sect which upholds all that is good in Islam, the five pillars, etc. but expressly forbids and openly criticizes the bad stuff? There is precedent for Islamic sects; e.g. Sunni and Shia and others. Since such sects do not exist, I conclude that the opposition to those evil activities on such a grand stage is not sufficient to do so.

 

The religion is fundamentally flawed in implementation. 1300 years of history has shown us that.

 

A common feature of liberalism is the unwillingness to discriminate. To say that Islam is bad requires a moral judgment. If you are unwilling to discriminate -- if you are unwilling to make a moral judgment -- you are compelled to defend it.

[IGotWorms 3,367]

If you want to talk about whether certain religions are more or less peaceful than others, we can have that debate. Some empirical evidence would be nice but clearly that will be hard to come across.

 

My issue is with people who believe that all or most Muslims are bad. Perhaps they really are more prone to religiously-based violence when compared to other religions, but we are still talking about a comparatively small subset of Islamic believers.

[BunnysBastatrds 1,940]

Vast majority? No.

 

It does seem from anecdotal evidence that Muslims are over represented in this demographic, but that may just be a matter of perspective. If you lived in a country where the US has caused a lot of collateral damage you would probably think and hear that we are all terrorists.

 

 

I said "people", not armies. What peoples blow most of the sh!t up in the world excluding armies?

[Strike 4,042]

(Reuters) - Afghanistan wants NATO to put on public trial those who burned copies of the Koran at a NATO base, President Hamid Karzai's office said on Thursday, after a third day of bloody protests over the incident.

 

It said NATO had agreed to a trial, but that could not be immediately confirmed.

 

Karzai had earlier accused a U.S. officer of "ignorantly" burning copies of the Koran, in an incident that has deepened anti-Western sentiment in a country NATO is trying to stabilise before foreign combat troops leave by the end of 2014.

 

Demonstrations have drawn thousands of angry Afghans to the streets, chanting "Death to America!" amid violence that has killed 11 people including two U.S. service personnel.

 

"NATO officials, in response to a request for the trial and punishment of the perpetrators ... promised this crime will brought to court as soon as possible," Karzai's office said in a statement.

 

President Barack Obama sent a letter to Karzai apologising for the burning of the Korans, after Afghan labourers found charred copies while collecting rubbish at the sprawling Bagram air base.

 

Obama told Karzai the incident was not intentional.

 

The letter, which the White House said was a follow-up to a phone call earlier this week between the two leaders to discuss a "long-term partnership" between Washington and Kabul, was delivered to Karzai by U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker.

 

Karzai's office said in a statement Obama had promised to investigate those involved in the incident.

 

Karzai said the American officer had acted "out of ignorance and with poor understanding" of the Koran's importance, a presidential statement said.

 

TALIBAN CALL

 

The Taliban urged Afghan security forces to "turn their guns on the foreign infidel invaders," it said on its site shahamat-english.com.

 

A U.S. official in Washington said two NATO soldiers killed by a man in Afghan army uniform were Americans.

 

NATO confirmed a man in Afghan army uniform had killed two of its troops in the east, but declined to say if the shooting was connected to the protests.

 

Muslims consider the Koran the literal word of God and treat each copy with deep reverence. Desecration is considered one of the worst forms of blasphemy.

 

A protest of around 500 people turned violent in the capital Kabul, with police and plain-clothes intelligence officers charging demonstrators wearing bandanas and hurling rocks and sticks, firing low above their heads and sending them fleeing.

 

A wounded youth lay on a road, blood pouring from his side. Crouched over and cradling him, a relative appealed to the Afghan government.

 

"Ministry of the Interior! Don't you see we are fighting NATO?" said the man.

 

Masked men sped by on a motorcycle blasting a battle song played by the Taliban insurgency, while police in machinegun-mounted pick-up trucks picked up the wounded.

 

"Our brave people must target the military bases of the invaders, their military convoys and their invader forces," read an e-mailed Taliban statement released by the insurgency's spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid.

 

"They have to kill them (Westerners), beat them and capture them to give them a lesson to never dare desecrate the holy Koran again."

 

FOREIGN BASES ATTACKED

 

Most Westerners were confined to their heavily fortified compounds, including the sprawling U.S. embassy complex and other embassies in central Kabul.

 

Around 400 protesters hurled rocks and set fire to cars at a Norwegian-led military base in Faryab province on the Turkmen border, which is centre for around 500 soldiers and civilians from Norway, Latvia, Macedonia, Iceland and the United States.

 

Twelve protesters were wounded in the attack, the head of the regional hospital Abdul Alim said, but Norway's ambassador to Kabul, Tore Hattrem, told Reuters no one was hurt and there was minimal damage.

 

A small number protested at a French military base in the eastern Kapisa province but police deterred them successfully, its police chief Abdul Hamid said.

 

The uproar could complicate efforts by U.S. and NATO forces to reach agreement with the Afghan government on a strategic pact that would allow a sharply reduced number of Western troops to stay in the country, well beyond their combat exit deadline, to oversee Afghan forces.

 

Hundreds of protesting students in Jalalabad rejected any strategic pact with the United States, saying they would "take up jihad" if one were sealed.

 

Just a "few" Muslims getting violent over the accidental burning of a book. Can someone tell them we can print more please? But hey, religion of peace and all that.

 

[BunnysBastatrds 1,940]

If you want to talk about whether certain religions are more or less peaceful than others, we can have that debate. Some empirical evidence would be nice but clearly that will be hard to come across.

 

My issue is with people who believe that all or most Muslims are bad. Perhaps they really are more prone to religiously-based violence when compared to other religions, but we are still talking about a comparatively small subset of Islamic believers.

 

 

You do realize a majority of Muslims are extreme conservatives? They hate everything you love. They want to live in the stone ages. They hate science. They hate wemens rights. They hate gheys. They hate abortions. They hate Hollywood. They hate free speech. They hate education. I've read somewhere that they even hate the Green Bay Packers. They don't even allow their wemens to doosh! Have you ever seen a muslim bush? I used one once to clean my golf shoes. They are the toatal opposite of you and yet you defend them. I'm glad RP isn't a Muslim.

[naomi 347]

Oh please. Hitler didn't do what he did in the name of God. Quit it.

Interestingly the product of what Hitler did is biblically prophetic in that there would be shaking of nations followed by scattered Jews returning to the land, and then becoming a nation.

 

Hitler thought the Aryan 'race' was evolved beyond the others, and if rationalwiki is correct, the higher the evolution, the more like to God in his mind. He didn't have a biblically consistent worldview, he didn't have a consistent materialist worldview either.

 

What's kind of spooky to me (something I just learned today), is that Roman Catholic doctrine asserts that 'the church' (RCC) is the "new Israel". They'll be a powerhouse looking for a unitor to establish the Kingdom of God (my inference). According to the bible the age where the word goes out to the gentiles ends with a great falling away and then the gospel goes out (in hearts) to the Jews. It's a reversal of how things have been. At that time Jews are going to reject the assertion of the RCC as the "new Israel" and anyone who is Israel's enemy will probably be a friend of the RCC. Verses in the bible that talk about all nations turning against Israel and besieging her are interesting in light of that. As an aside, I don't think America's policy toward Israel is a Christian cause. How history has unfolded, ever since Abraham and Sarah's handmaid concieved Ishmael who "will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren" ...and then she settled in the desert of Paran on the Arabian peninsula is fascinating. You know why what's going down has, and how it's going to continue to go down.

[FeelingMN 273]

You do realize a majority of Muslims are extreme conservatives? They hate everything you love. They want to live in the stone ages. They hate science. They hate wemens rights. They hate gheys. They hate abortions. They hate Hollywood. They hate free speech. They hate education. I've read somewhere that they even hate the Green Bay Packers. They don't even allow their wemens to doosh! Have you ever seen a muslim bush? I used one once to clean my golf shoes. They are the toatal opposite of you and yet you defend them. I'm glad RP isn't a Muslim.

 

We're talking about Muslims, right? Not about folks who support Santorum?

[NorthernVike 2,080]

We're talking about Muslims, right? Not about folks who support Santorum?

[hoytdwow 202]

What bothers me about Islam is that I've never heard a single muslim religious leader publicly disavow the misogynistic elements of the faith, state that s/he was against violence, that Islam had been co-opted by radicals, or anything like this.

 

If there was some kind of offshoot of Christianity that had run amok, I'm sure the pope or the archbishop of canterbury, somebody, would say something.

[mobb_deep 919]

Just a "few" Muslims getting violent over the accidental burning of a book. Can someone tell them we can print more please? But hey, religion of peace and all that.

 

 

We get all butt hurt when American flags are burned. Those are even easier to make then books.

[Birdseed 1]

let me guess without reading this thread....

 

OP says something bad about muslims...then maybe 3 posts in the usual queer libbos start talking about how christianity is just as bad - "there were two abortion clinic bombings in 1987!!!" "remember the crusades 1000 years ago!" blah blah blah...then the super enlightened doosh bags start in about how all religion is a sham blah blah blah...

 

fockin retards. open your eyes. do you ever see any outrage in the muslim community over this sh;t every day??? i honestly never saw a muslim charity...do they exist??? muslim hospitals??? reaching out to help the community???

 

porkbutt won this thread.

[drobeski 3,061]

We get all butt hurt when American flags are burned. Those are even easier to make then books.

Good comparison, wow you really are smart. You must have went to college and learned about computers.

Impressive stuff, do you make a lot of money and drink wicked cool beer ?

[Strike 4,042]

We get all butt hurt when American flags are burned. Those are even easier to make then books.

 

We express outrage. We don't kill people.

[mobb_deep 919]

We express outrage. We don't kill people.

 

Speak for yourself, man. I get super super pissed when people burn flags.

[Casual Observer 597]

No I meant the comment where I called you a bigot. At least you have certainly exhibited bigotry by starting this thread.

 

The comment "Casual Observer" was referring to was a joke I made about Jesus in a different thread. Apparently my comment got deleted by the mods (it was in poor taste). Funny how some guy who just started posting here (Casual Observer) would know that, isn't it.

 

I knew about it because I read it.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Ah, so what you're saying is that Muslims are as civilized as Christians were in the 13th Century. Got it. Seriously, do you really want to compare current Muslim practices to Christianity 800 years ago or more? Basically you're admitting that Muslims are a thousand years behind the West as far as being civilized.

 

Actually, back then, they were more civilized than the West was. Contact with them is what made the Renessance happen.

 

This is why religion + government = bad focking news.

 

The only difference between these clowns and Christians like Santorum is money and a little bit of education. Switch their backgrounds and it would be the same, only reversed.

[MDC 5,933]

Good comparison, wow you really are smart. You must have went to college and learned about computers.

Impressive stuff, do you make a lot of money and drink wicked cool beer ?

 

Your inferiority complex comes out in every post.

[Casual Observer 597]

Actually, back then, they were more civilized than the West was. Contact with them is what made the Renessance happen.

 

This is why religion + government = bad focking news.

 

The only difference between these clowns and Christians like Santorum is money and a little bit of education. Switch their backgrounds and it would be the same, only reversed.

I don't know how they were any more civilized than the West, unless you're trying to distinguish the Western Roman Empire or the remnants of it from the Eastern. Attributing the Renaissance to Muslims is quite a stretch. Both Muslim and Christian regimes inseparably intertwined religion with government during these times. If the logic follows that the Muslims were more civilized, it has yet to be explained here why their culture apparently devolved in the last 500 years or so.

[gocolts 300]

If he is Mensa, he's going to pop your skull like a zit, skin you alive and strut around town in parrotleather chaps.

Don't forget that if it is Mensa, he will start owning the bored libs at every turn.

[nikki2200 4]

Don't forget that if it is Mensa, he will start owning the bored libs at every turn.

 

It's not Mensa.

 

Also if by owning you mean asking them out on homosexual dates and when they refuse threatening to rub their faces in gravel, I totally agree.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I don't know how they were any more civilized than the West, unless you're trying to distinguish the Western Roman Empire or the remnants of it from the Eastern. Attributing the Renaissance to Muslims is quite a stretch. Both Muslim and Christian regimes inseparably intertwined religion with government during these times. If the logic follows that the Muslims were more civilized, it has yet to be explained here why their culture apparently devolved in the last 500 years or so.

 

First off, muslims were much more advanced in many areas, math and medicine in particular. Astronomy, navigation, etc.

 

And if you examine the history of the two religions, islam has always been the more tolerant. Islam has always sheltered large populations of Christians and Muslims within its borders, and considered them "people of the book", and allowed them to do their thing, albeit sometimes taxing them extra or whatnot.

 

The history of what happens when Islam took over a territory (see most of the Balkan peninsula) that used to be Christian is generally far kinder than the inverse (see the reconquista of Granada, etc.)

 

Now all that obviously goes back a long way, and is not particularly relevant to today.

 

What is the deal today? Well I've never been there, but I bet that the civilization is far more cosmopolitan and peaceful than we are led to believe from the media. Just like their media unfairly simplifies and demonizes us, ours does the same to them.

 

Add the fact that pretty much all of the Muslim world was ruled by foreign powers for pretty much the entire last 1000 years (the Ottoman Turks were foreign to most of them) which retarded their political development.

 

Then, toss a handful of religious fundamentalism into the mix, and you get a pretty unstable mix.

 

You have to keep in mind... the West went through all of these upheavals too... we just have 2,000 years of self rule and political evolution that the Muslim world has not been able to enjoy.

[Casual Observer 597]

First off, muslims were much more advanced in many areas, math and medicine in particular. Astronomy, navigation, etc. Which they obtained largely from the ancient Greeks.

 

And if you examine the history of the two religions, islam has always been the more tolerant. Islam has always sheltered large populations of Christians and Muslims within its borders, and considered them "people of the book", and allowed them to do their thing, albeit sometimes taxing them extra or whatnot. When Islam and Christianity clashed over the centuries, where Islam prevailed, it imposed it's will on the non-Muslim population after considerable bloodshed. You're bestowing a genorosity upon Muslim invaders that only existed after subduing the native non-Muslim population. In short, the people were peaceful after being beaten down. However, some of them never gave up hope that they would throw off the inavders. See the Iberian Penininsula.

 

The history of what happens when Islam took over a territory (see most of the Balkan peninsula) that used to be Christian is generally far kinder than the inverse (see the reconquista of Granada, etc.) The Serbian and Croatian populations of the time would beg to differ. In fact, they never forgot what was done to their forbears by the Muslim invaders.

 

Now all that obviously goes back a long way, and is not particularly relevant to today.

 

What is the deal today? Well I've never been there, but I bet that the civilization is far more cosmopolitan and peaceful than we are led to believe from the media. Just like their media unfairly simplifies and demonizes us, ours does the same to them. I think our media is far kinder to them.

 

Add the fact that pretty much all of the Muslim world was ruled by foreign powers for pretty much the entire last 1000 years (the Ottoman Turks were foreign to most of them) which retarded their political development. Not true as to the 1000 years and the Ottoman Turks were seen as the great Muslim force equal to the task of taking on Christian Europe until the time of Attaturk.

 

Then, toss a handful of religious fundamentalism into the mix, and you get a pretty unstable mix.Religious fundamentalism has always been in the mix for most of the Islamic world.

 

You have to keep in mind... the West went through all of these upheavals too... we just have 2,000 years of self rule and political evolution that the Muslim world has not been able to enjoy. Europe has a lot less than 2,000 years of self rule and political evolution, but all of the above still does not explain why the Muslim world largley stagnated over the past 500 years or so.

[Casual Observer 597]

Sorry I messed that last one up, but my comments appear after yours (without bolding).

[Gepetto 995]

link

Gingrich criticizes Obama's apology to Afghans over Quran burning

 

By NBC’s Alex Moe

 

SPOKANE, Wash. – Newt Gingrich criticized the Obama administration for apologizing to Afghan leaders after Qurans were burned at a military base.

 

“The president apologized for the burning, but I haven't seen the president demand that the government of Afghanistan apologize for the killing of two young Americans,” Gingrich told roughly 500 people at the Bing Crosby Theater here Thursday.

 

The Afghans, Gingrich believes, "do not deserve the apology of the United States” after an Afghan soldier shot two American troops at a protest that followed the desecration of the holy books.

 

“If Hamid Karzai, the president of Afghanistan, doesn't feel like apologizing, then we should say ‘goodbye and good luck.’ We don't need to be here risking our lives and wasting our money on somebody who doesn't care,” the former House speaker said.

 

Karzai’s office said Thursday that it wants NATO to put on trial those who burned the holy books.

 

The demonstrations began three days ago after people witnessed copies of the Muslim holy book being burned in a garbage pile at Bagram Air Field. Military officials said the burning was a mistake. The apology from the Obama administration came after the two Americans were killed.

 

Gingrich has been unrelenting in criticizing Barack Obama’s foreign policies. At his campaign event in Spokane, Gingrich called him “the greatest national security disaster that we've had in my lifetime."

[IGotWorms 3,367]

Do people still care what Newt Gingrich says? I thought his most recent 15 minutes of fame ended a month ago.

[jocstrap 8]

So after all this arguing, what's the point of this thread? Every advanced civilization has been trying to make their beliefs better than their neighbors/opposition. There is no mutual God, there is no mutual belief that one civilization has it 100% correct. If so, we would all be the going to the same church, statue, temple, etc. All that matters is that our military and technology beats the next person in line. When it's all said and done for the Earth, not 1 civilaztion will be able to say they were better than the next. So fock 'em all, make sure we are not #2. As much as it pains me to say...why isn't Iran alloud to try to figure out how to develop nuclear weapons? They have that right IMO. They just better figure out how to repel an attack.

 

THE NATURE OF WAR

[Gepetto 995]

So after all this arguing, what's the point of this thread? Every advanced civilization has been trying to make their beliefs better than their neighbors/opposition. There is no mutual God, there is no mutual belief that one civilization has it 100% correct. If so, we would all be the going to the same church, statue, temple, etc. All that matters is that our military and technology beats the next person in line. When it's all said and done for the Earth, not 1 civilaztion will be able to say they were better than the next. So fock 'em all, make sure we are not #2. As much as it pains me to say...why isn't Iran alloud to try to figure out how to develop nuclear weapons? They have that right IMO. They just better figure out how to repel an attack.

 

THE NATURE OF WAR

 

Good God. Did you even read the original post? This thread is stating the fact that Iranian leaders based on their Muslim faith have sentenced a man to death for preaching Christianity in their country. This is a real problem in todays world.

 

Sept. 11th attacks against the West were attacks against our culture, beliefs systems, and the fact that we don't practice the Muslim faith as certain fundamentalist Muslims do. There is a strong sentiment of loathing and hate directed at Christians, the West, and non-Muslims. Anyone they see as a threat to their way of life and beliefs is suseptible to violence and/or death. This isn't going away. They are working on a Revolution, in my opinion, to force their beliefs on everyone. Their means to do so is fear, intimidation, annialation, if you don't join their belief system, live by the Islamic tradition.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I missed about 3 pages of this thread, and I'm not inclined to read all of them.

 

 

So let me go out on a limb and do a quick recap:

 

Christians are evil cuz they killed people in the name of Christianity about 800 years ago.

 

Muslims aren't bad cuz in 2012 they publicly and proudly profess that the Koran teaches them that anyone who doesn't believe what they say is an infidel and that requires them to be killed.

 

Did I miss anything.

 

No, Ok,

 

Carry on.