Zimmerman - Guilty of Murder or Self Defense

[The Moz 69]

If this guys last name was Cortez and not Zimmerman would this even be news right now?

 

 

Maybe this wasn't the classic self defense but there sure as hell isn't nearly enough for any type of conviction either. GZ knew going in all he needed to do was make sure he stuck to his story and never change it -- which he has done and that way it's all he said/she said - which you can't convict on. The most telling evidence in the entire case is GZ having facial lacerations , a broken nose, and marks on his head -- and Trayvon having no trauma other than the obvious bullet wound. GZ clothes are wet and Trayvon's clothes only wet on the knees down. That is the biggest evidence as with that alone there will always be AT LEAST reasonable doubt. for any charge - Murder 2 or Manslaughter. There is nothing the DA can do to win this case unless the jury is rigged to vote guilty no matter what. Any juror is going to know there was at least a "good" chance GZ was acting in self defense just based on the injuries and the clothes being wet.

 

The best thing that can happen now is for GZ to win so overwhelmingly to the point that no one even thinks to Riot.

[cbfalcon 825]

The best thing that can happen now is for GZ to win so overwhelmingly to the point that no one even thinks to Riot.

 

Like instead of them announcing "Not Guilty", they say "Very very not guilty at all"? Never seen that happen but there is a first time for everything.

[The Moz 69]

 

Like instead of them announcing "Not Guilty", they say "Very very not guilty at all"?

Couldn't hurt

[mmmmm...beer 808]

 

When you point out early in your post how both sides won points, and then say "they" would have a hard time with a motion to dismiss, one would logically think "they" referred to those making the motion.

 

Especially when you have no pronoun/antecedent relationship, Sport.

 

I read just fine. I just don't read dumbass too well.

I understood worms statement just fine... that you didn't I'm sure has nothing to do with all the sissy slap fights between you two does it?

[Bert 1,128]

Seeing the headline that the kid’s mom was testifying reminded me of the jury I was on. When they had the guys mom come up to the stand all I could think was, “He is definitely guilty. Bringing a biased witness to the stand to cry her eyes out about her “good boy” to get sympathy from a jury in a murder trial is pure desperation.”

[RLLD 4,256]

Once he is acquitted, the rioting can begin.

[kutulu 1,684]

Honestly, I don't know if George is guilty or innocent anymore, but I don't see how he gets convicted...granted I'm not following the trial super close but from what I do know.

[The Moz 69]

Once he is acquitted, the rioting can begin.

Like I said if it is so overwhelming that he is innocent - sort of like the way The "Tawana case" fell apart - there will be no riots.

[Mungwater 597]

This medical examiner is really helping the defense here.

[MDC 7,522]

I don't give a poop about this story at all other than minor digits that both sides are basing their positions almost entirely on a racial or political agenda.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Like I said if it is so overwhelming that he is innocent - sort of like the way The "Tawana case" fell apart - there will be no riots.

 

You seem to forget how stupid people can be when involved in stuff like this.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

The defense has asked the judge for an acquittal. If she grants it, as she should based on the lack of any evidence, all hell will break loose.

[Mungwater 597]

The defense has asked the judge for an acquittal. If she grants it, as she should based on the lack of any evidence, all hell will break loose.

And she denied it.. We are safe for another week

[IGotWorms 4,059]

Defense always asks for a directed verdict and they are very rarely granted. We have juries for a reason.

[Mungwater 597]

Defense always asks for a directed verdict and they are very rarely granted. We have juries for a reason.

So how does it work in Florida? He's obviously guilty of something, just not murder two, does the court give the jury scenarios he can be convicted of? If I recall, they're one of the states where they can do a lesser charge

[Voltaire 5,322]

 

I have no idea what point you are trying to make here. Who are these "desperate guys"? What do you mean Trayvon is out of the picture...he's dead?

Anyone with finesse to rival Jar Jar's and hasn't been Leia-ed in a long time could probably Luke into hooking up with this Jabba the Hutt clone with Darth Vader's breathing skills because you know everybody else is Hans-off, afraid of getting Cheweyed.

 

Just toss Skittles to her and she's yours. It's not like Trayvon will come beat your ass for stealing her from him.

 

Ok OK, bad joke... carry on...

[IGotWorms 4,059]

So how does it work in Florida? He's obviously guilty of something, just not murder two, does the court give the jury scenarios he can be convicted of? If I recall, they're one of the states where they can do a lesser charge

Yeah they can do lesser included offenses. So probably the jury will read the murder two verdict first, and if it's not guilty then they go to manslaughter and then involuntary manslaughter.

[peenie 1,917]

if zimmerman was screaming, why did the screams stop exactly when the bullet was fired??

why would zimmerman be screaming for his life if he had a gun to protect him??

why would trayvon say someone was following him if he was following zimmerman??

why wasn't trayvon's dead body found on the street near the car if in fact he confronted zimmerman by his car??

why do you even care at all about any of this when the fact is the child and i repeat CHILD went to the store to buy some candy and was on his way home, minding his own business when some stranger confronted him.

he has a right to defend himself!!!

as for you, idiot rrld, just because some stupid money whoring rappers have made the n-word common place, does not mean that all black america embraces it.

i'd argue that most rappers come from the lowest of segments of society, since when do they represent all of black americans???

drug dealers, dropouts and low lives that happen to have a talent don't represent me anymore than the klan represents you!

if you want to use the n-word, go right ahead and deal with the consequences.

[mobb_deep 920]

if zimmerman was screaming, why did the screams stop exactly when the bullet was fired??

why would zimmerman be screaming for his life if he had a gun to protect him??

why would trayvon say someone was following him if he was following zimmerman??

why wasn't trayvon's dead body found on the street near the car if in fact he confronted zimmerman by his car??

why do you even care at all about any of this when the fact is the child and i repeat CHILD went to the store to buy some candy and was on his way home, minding his own business when some stranger confronted him.

he has a right to defend himself!!!

as for you, idiot rrld, just because some stupid money whoring rappers have made the n-word common place, does not mean that all black america embraces it.

i'd argue that most rappers come from the lowest of segments of society, since when do they represent all of black americans???

drug dealers, dropouts and low lives that happen to have a talent don't represent me anymore than the klan represents you!

if you want to use the n-word, go right ahead and deal with the consequences.

That's exactly what I said, and you got all emo saying I was mean...

[IGotWorms 4,059]

if zimmerman was screaming, why did the screams stop exactly when the bullet was fired??

why would zimmerman be screaming for his life if he had a gun to protect him??

why would trayvon say someone was following him if he was following zimmerman??

why wasn't trayvon's dead body found on the street near the car if in fact he confronted zimmerman by his car??

why do you even care at all about any of this when the fact is the child and i repeat CHILD went to the store to buy some candy and was on his way home, minding his own business when some stranger confronted him.

he has a right to defend himself!!!

[drobeski 3,061]

Worms, you're opinion on the prosecutions case so far ?

Reasonable doubt, did they kill it ?

[peenie 1,917]

That's exactly what I said, and you got all emo saying I was mean...

what is emo??

 

wait, i'll look it up:

emo

A group of white, mostly middle-class well-off kids who find imperfections in there life and create a ridiculous, depressing melodrama around each one. They often take anti-depressants, even though the majority don't need them. They need to wake up and deal with life like everyone else instead of wallowing in their imaginary quagmire of torment.

 

(modern day goths)

[IGotWorms 4,059]

Worms, you're opinion on the prosecutions case so far ?

Reasonable doubt, did they kill it ?

Not on murder two. Manslaughter will be a closer call but I expect a hung jury at best.

[mobb_deep 920]

what is emo??

 

wait, i'll look it up:

emo

A group of white, mostly middle-class well-off kids who find imperfections in there life and create a ridiculous, depressing melodrama around each one. They often take anti-depressants, even though the majority don't need them. They need to wake up and deal with life like everyone else instead of wallowing in their imaginary quagmire of torment.

 

(modern day goths)

Cool story, bro.

[BLS 314]

if zimmerman was screaming, why did the screams stop exactly when the bullet was fired??

why would zimmerman be screaming for his life if he had a gun to protect him??

why would trayvon say someone was following him if he was following zimmerman??

why wasn't trayvon's dead body found on the street near the car if in fact he confronted zimmerman by his car??

why do you even care at all about any of this when the fact is the child and i repeat CHILD went to the store to buy some candy and was on his way home, minding his own business when some stranger confronted him.

he has a right to defend himself!!!

as for you, idiot rrld, just because some stupid money whoring rappers have made the n-word common place, does not mean that all black america embraces it.

i'd argue that most rappers come from the lowest of segments of society, since when do they represent all of black americans???

drug dealers, dropouts and low lives that happen to have a talent don't represent me anymore than the klan represents you!

if you want to use the n-word, go right ahead and deal with the consequences.

 

Here's why nobody will reply; and more so, why nobody will even acknowledge your post.....

 

Because IT'S obvious you're basing your opinion on RACE. Not on the facts of the case.

Even WORMS realizes it's a losing proposition to suggest GZ will get convicted.

 

As much as I HATE to see someone get killed; what makes it worse is this was a situation gone horribly wrong. All of the worst things that could have happened; happened.

 

We will NEVER know the entire truth....there is no video evidence. There are NO eyewitnesses.

We only have facts, circumstantial evidence and GZ's testimony.

 

From an OBJECTIVE viewpoint, GZ defended himself against an attack where he feared for his life.

 

Throw out everything EMOTIONAL.

 

The evidence shows GZ was beaten.

The evidence shows TM had NO marks on him (indicating he was not being beaten).

Why would you scream for help if you weren't being harmed?

 

It's pretty obvious Peenie. I'm sorry, but it is.

 

If you want to call me a racist pig, or a gun-toting hillbilly or whatever, that's your prerogative. (not saying you will)

 

But you NEED to be objective.

 

Go back and look at the original thread...initially I said I thought GZ was wrong and would be found guilty.

After the facts came out, I changed my stance, and have never wavered from that.

Do you know why?

 

Because I can remove emotion from the equation and realize sometimes people do dumb sh1t. And sometimes, that dumb sh1t will get themselves dead in the worst possible situations.

I don't see RACE at all in this trial. I see two people who apparently both made major mistakes and because of it, someone died (who probably didn't need to).

 

But that doesn't make one man guilty of a crime. Sometimes, it just means happens.

[peenie 1,917]

but there is no racial issue here!! zimmerman is hispanic!! isn't he?? i thought he was...

it's not about race other than white folks thinking trayvon deserved to die!!

trayvon was 158 lbs to zimmerman's 185 lbs.

clearly, clearly, quite clearly zimmerman chased trayvon down!!

zimmerman was a stranger and if trayvon felt threatened, he has a right to defend himself.

you are right, we don't know what happened but i don't believe that trayvon with no weapon deserved to die that night.

i do not believe trayvon was doing anything but going home.

he was watching a daggone basketball game!!

he wasn't out to rob anyone.

so what zimmerman got beat up, it doesn't give him the right to kill anyone.

so all fights should end in murder?? even if you're the one that started it??

 

this case became racially charged because the police claimed there was no evidence to charge zimmerman.

zimmerman was let go because the police said he acted in self-defense even though trayvon was not armed.

zimmerman was seen as innocent and trayvon as guilty without thorough investigation.

it was like, "oh, trayvon was young and black, he must've been up to no good."

 

i'm still confused why you think trayvon deserved a bullet? he had no weapon!

zimmerman shouldn't have been any sort of security watch perspm if he was so scared.

(and if he really wasn't security watch, he was simply a busy body)

[peenie 1,917]

i want someone who believes zimmerman is innocent to explain to me WHY the fock was trayvon's body found on #5 when zimmerman's car is found on #3??

if zimmerman was NOT chasing or following trayvon and trayvon instead ran up to zimmerman and confronted him and beat him up, why was the body not found near the car???

explain please: click here for picture of housing develpment

[SUXBNME 1,522]

Honestly, I don't know if George is guilty or innocent anymore,

 

who cares who cares

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

About your opinion, that is

[SUXBNME 1,522]

 

it's not about race other than white folks thinking trayvon deserved to die!!

 

See?

This is where you lose everyone here.

You are as racist as most of us crackers here "pretend" to be.

Trayvon was prolly a piece of sh1t as a human. GZ is prolly one also.

Why this story is getting as much press as it is doesn't make any sense to me.

Naggers die every day. black ones, white ones, orange ones. It doesn't matter . Trash is trash.

[5-Points 3,586]

i want someone who believes zimmerman is innocent to explain to me WHY the fock was trayvon's body found on #5 when zimmerman's car is found on #3??

if zimmerman was NOT chasing or following trayvon and trayvon instead ran up to zimmerman and confronted him and beat him up, why was the body not found near the car???

explain please: click here for picture of housing develpment

Because he didn't run home like his friend told him to. Had he just gone home instead of trying to fock with some creepy ass cracka, he might still be alive today. hth

[Mungwater 597]

Because he didn't run home like his friend told him to. Had he just gone home instead of trying to fock with some creepy ass cracka, he might still be alive today. hth

Most teenagers are idiots, this kid was an idiot. The guy with the gun was an idiot. It's pretty obvious that Martin beat the guy up, but the guy shouldn't have been following the kid.

 

What I don't understand is why didn't the prosecution have the family on last? Their evidence has been proven to be weak, they could have at least had an emotional plea with the family at the end.

[5-Points 3,586]

Most teenagers are idiots, this kid was an idiot. The guy with the gun was an idiot. It's pretty obvious that Martin beat the guy up, but the guy shouldn't have been following the kid.

 

What I don't understand is why didn't the prosecution have the family on last? Their evidence has been proven to be weak, they could have at least had an emotional plea with the family at the end.

Agreed. Mistakes were made on both sides and unfortunately somebody lost their life as a result. I disagree with the use of the term "following". Trying to get eyes on somebody isn't necessarily "following" them. Martin could've easily outrun Zimmerman if he'd wanted to. He didn't want to. He chose to run around the corner and wait for Zimmerman. Both Zimmerman's story and Martin's friend's testimony back that up. People like Peenie just refuse to acknowledge Martin's culpability in his own demise.

 

I haven't seen any of the proceedings this week but I thought Martin's mom did testify at some point.

[IGotWorms 4,059]

 

Here's why nobody will reply; and more so, why nobody will even acknowledge your post.....

 

Because IT'S obvious you're basing your opinion on RACE. Not on the facts of the case.

Even WORMS realizes it's a losing proposition to suggest GZ will get convicted.

 

As much as I HATE to see someone get killed; what makes it worse is this was a situation gone horribly wrong. All of the worst things that could have happened; happened.

 

We will NEVER know the entire truth....there is no video evidence. There are NO eyewitnesses.

We only have facts, circumstantial evidence and GZ's testimony.

 

From an OBJECTIVE viewpoint, GZ defended himself against an attack where he feared for his life.

 

Throw out everything EMOTIONAL.

 

The evidence shows GZ was beaten.

The evidence shows TM had NO marks on him (indicating he was not being beaten).

Why would you scream for help if you weren't being harmed?

 

It's pretty obvious Peenie. I'm sorry, but it is.

 

If you want to call me a racist pig, or a gun-toting hillbilly or whatever, that's your prerogative. (not saying you will)

 

But you NEED to be objective.

 

Go back and look at the original thread...initially I said I thought GZ was wrong and would be found guilty.

After the facts came out, I changed my stance, and have never wavered from that.

Do you know why?

 

Because I can remove emotion from the equation and realize sometimes people do dumb sh1t. And sometimes, that dumb sh1t will get themselves dead in the worst possible situations.

I don't see RACE at all in this trial. I see two people who apparently both made major mistakes and because of it, someone died (who probably didn't need to).

 

But that doesn't make one man guilty of a crime. Sometimes, it just means ###### happens.

The funny thing is, you're not being objective either. You are Mr. Self Defense. It's your whole thing. So how could you possibly be objective in determining whether it was actually justified here?

 

Depending on who the jury believes, it could conclude:

- Zimmerman followed Martin despite being advised against it by dispatch

- Zimmerman went in to the situation angry and intending to do something-- these punks always get away

- When Martin disappeared, Zimmerman got out of his car to chase him down. He wanted to see what street it was for the cops? Yeah right, there are three streets in the whole neighborhood.

- Martin then confronted Zimmerman, why are you following me for?

- Zimmerman acts as the aggressor and hits Martin

- A scuffle ensues

- Zimmerman is on top for some or most of the time

- Zimmerman's injuries were not serious

- Martin is screaming for his life on the tape

 

The evidence is there. Now I do happen to believe there is reasonable doubt, at least as to Murder 2. But to say that OBJECTIVELY speaking Zimmerman unquestionably acted in lawful self defense just betrays your bias.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

if zimmerman was screaming, why did the screams stop exactly when the bullet was fired??

 

 

Trayvon was no longer able to pummel Zimmerman with a hole in his chest. No need to keep screaming once the threat is eliminated.

[Ken8080 6]

I'm not going to vote and have not expressed an opinion one way or another but I have noticed one thing. Whether it be on CNN or MSNBC or FoxNews or out in the real world, white folks are split 60/40 on basic facts of the case. But EVERY single black person has taken the prosecution side. Every single one. And that includes the talking heads defense lawyers that are supposed to provide information pretaining to a defense argument. One black lady lawyer on CNN has gotten angry in her verbal opinion on several occasions. I have not seen the white talking heads do this.

 

As far as peenie, this is EXACTLY what you would expect. Exactly. AND to then surmise that race has nothing to do with it.

 

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

[IGotWorms 4,059]

 

Trayvon was no longer able to pummel Zimmerman with a hole in his chest. No need to keep screaming once the threat is eliminated.

You wouldn't keep screaming--even for a second-- because you were terrified for your life and had just been forced to shoot another human point blank?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

You wouldn't keep screaming--even for a second-- because you were terrified for your life and had just been forced to shoot another human point blank?

No.

[IGotWorms 4,059]

No.

Now who's pretending to be John Wayne?

[mobb_deep 920]

Agreed. Mistakes were made on both sides and unfortunately somebody lost their life as a result. I disagree with the use of the term "following". Trying to get eyes on somebody isn't necessarily "following" them. Martin could've easily outrun Zimmerman if he'd wanted to. He didn't want to. He chose to run around the corner and wait for Zimmerman. Both Zimmerman's story and Martin's friend's testimony back that up. People like Peenie just refuse to acknowledge Martin's culpability in his own demise.

 

I haven't seen any of the proceedings this week but I thought Martin's mom did testify at some point.

Mistakes were made on both sides?

 

Martin was walking home, minding his own focking business. He was profiled, stalked and slain by an overzealous and likely racist neighborhood watch guy. It doesn't need to be a white vs. black person to be profiling based on race. The fact of the matter is, if Martin was a white/hispanic kid walking home with skittles, none of this would have ever happened.

 

As much as I hate agreeing with peenie, she's dead on here.

[5-Points 3,586]

Mistakes were made on both sides?

 

Martin was walking home, minding his own focking business. He was profiled, stalked and slain by an overzealous and likely racist neighborhood watch guy. It doesn't need to be a white vs. black person to be profiling based on race. The fact of the matter is, if Martin was a white/hispanic kid walking home with skittles, none of this would have ever happened.

 

As much as I hate agreeing with peenie, she's dead on here.

Yes, mistakes were made on both sides.

 

Martin was walking home minding his own business right up until he stopped walking home and decided to confront Zimmerman. He shouldn't have bothered asking Zimmerman "why you followin me?" He should not have punched Zimmerman in the face. He should have continued to walk home and ignore Zimmerman.

 

Zimmerman should've paid closer attention to his surroundings and not have allowed himself to be taken by surprise. He should have told Martin exactly why he was calling the police on him when Martin confronted him. He should've backed away from Martin as soon as he reacquired his whereabouts.

 

If you look at it objectively, you can clearly see mistakes were made by both.