NFL: 11 of 12 Pat's balls under inflated.

[Sho Nuff 720]

The level of denial and excise making is awesome.

[KSB2424 3,173]

This is awesome, its a win win situation for 90% of football fans.

 

Either the NFL / Roger Goodell comes out of this looking focking ridiculous for insinuating cheating when it didn't happen and creating a public firestorm over.....nothing.

 

OR

 

There really is something and Kraft, Bill, Brady whom are going ALL IN with denials look really really really really bad.

 

Either way, most of us win.

[drobeski 3,061]

Excise ?

 

So snuff, its your position they cheated ?

[IGotWorms 4,063]

The level of denial and excise making is awesome.

I love how you keep saying we're in denial...of something that has not been proven in the least bit

[NewbieJr 541]

We';ve already seen your act, Worms. You and Patriot Nation. If it is proven that they did, in fact, cheat, your stance will then shift to 'everyone else does it'. And if it is proven that air was intentionally left out after the ball boy got the bag of balls, you will try to convince people that he acted alone and Brady/Belichick had nothing to do with it. Yawnnnnnn

[Sho Nuff 720]

Excise ?

So snuff, its your position they cheated ?

My position is the logical conclusion based on the facts as known is that the Patriots tampered with balls after inspection.

[Sho Nuff 720]

I love how you keep saying we're in denial...of something that has not been proven in the least bit

You are in denial of the possibility of any wrongdoing and buy into every excuse the Pats have made.

 

HTH

[FeelingMN 273]

I think his job is to take both teams balls to the field, I think he is instructed to not leave the balls unattended, I think he had to take a leak on his way to the field.

All those are common sense conclusions by the evidence leaked so far.

It takes a real retard to not come to that conclusion, so your confusion and bewilderment is completely understandable.

The Colts suspected the Pats were deflating balls.

A Patriot employee took the balls into a bathroom after they were inspected before he went on to the field. It was a small bathroom that could be locked from the inside.

The Pats balls passed pregame inspection, but were deflated at halftime. They were not deflated post game.

Therefore the weather caused the deflation. Well that and sour grapes.

[drobeski 3,061]

The Colts suspected the Pats were deflating balls.

A Patriot employee took the balls into a bathroom after they were inspected before he went on to the field. It was a small bathroom that could be locked from the inside.

The Pats balls passed pregame inspection, but we're deflated at halftime. They were not deflated post game.

Therefore the weather caused the deflation. Well that and sour grapes.

guess we'll see lots of blanks to fill in there

[Mike Honcho 5,435]

This is awesome, its a win win situation for 90% of football fans.

 

Either the NFL / Roger Goodell comes out of this looking focking ridiculous for insinuating cheating when it didn't happen and creating a public firestorm over.....nothing.

 

OR

 

There really is something and Kraft, Bill, Brady whom are going ALL IN with denials look really really really really bad.

 

Either way, most of us win.

 

I really don't think there is an either for Goodell looking focking riduculous, that's just a given every day.

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

So Patriot fans are having difficulty coming to grips with he fact that their team are petty cheaters. Probably still in denial about all the roids the Red Sox took

[IGotWorms 4,063]

The Colts suspected the Pats were deflating balls.

A Patriot employee took the balls into a bathroom after they were inspected before he went on to the field. It was a small bathroom that could be locked from the inside.

The Pats balls passed pregame inspection, but were deflated at halftime. They were not deflated post game.

Therefore the weather caused the deflation. Well that and sour grapes.

What was the PSI of the balls pregame? Colts and Pats?

 

What was the PSI at halftime?

 

What was the PSI after the game?

 

Hopefully the NFL has this data, but we most certainly do not

[KSB2424 3,173]

What was the PSI of the balls pregame? Colts and Pats?

 

What was the PSI at halftime?

 

What was the PSI after the game?

 

Hopefully the NFL has this data, but we most certainly do not

 

Worms, in all seriousness for me......

 

If the answers to your questions all were that there was nothing to this story then do you really think the NFL would go on 40+ interviews and let this go on and on like they have? Or is it more plausible there IS something but they are being very careful before dropping the bombshell as they are dotting every i, crossing every t, watching every videotape to make sure so they don't wrongfully do something or miss something (i.e. Ray Rice video).

 

Common sense tells me that surely if there was nothing, the NFL wouldn't be doing all this.

 

Now IF the NFL does have nothing then they come out looking stupid..... but just sayin'

[FeelingMN 273]

What was the PSI of the balls pregame? Colts and Pats?

What was the PSI at halftime?

What was the PSI after the game?

Hopefully the NFL has this data, but we most certainly do not

Dunno. I'd have to think there's enough of a difference to justify letting this story snowball for 10 days and continuing their investigation. If not, then the NFL is shooting itself in the foot here...which has been known to happen.

[HenryHill9323 65]

If there is nothing to this the NFL would have said so already so they can try to get the stink off the Super Bowl that the Cheatriots have wiped all over it.

 

There is enough info that has been leaked for any reasonable person to conclude they cheated. Only blind homers are clinging to the fantasy they did nothing. The NFL knows a helluva lot more, and they are pushing it past the SB so it isn't rooned any further.

[parrot 789]

Goodell has handled this horribly, but he's actually in a tough spot here;

 

he's been hearing for 6 or 7 years now about how he destroyed the Spygate tapes, and he just went through a shitstorm over not taking the Ray Rice case seriously enough. The fact that this case is coming right on the heels of the Rice situation AND involves the Patriots, pretty much ensured it was going to be run all the way up the flagpole regardless of how much initial merit, or lack thereof, it appeared to have. Once Mortenson's report came out, which was almost instantaneous, there was no focking way this thing was going away quietly.

 

Hell, he is taking it about as seriously as possible and jagoffs like Sherman are still accusing him of bias. Imagine if Goodell had summarily said "Yeah, nothing to see here, it was the weather." People would be losing their focking minds.

[drobeski 3,061]

I predict an apology to the pats from the NFL in the near future.

 

Maybe on the podium Sunday night.

[KSB2424 3,173]

Goodell has handled this horribly, but he's actually in a tough spot here;

 

he's been hearing for 6 or 7 years now about how he destroyed the Spygate tapes, and he just went through a shitstorm over not taking the Ray Rice case seriously enough. The fact that this case is coming right on the heels of the Rice situation AND involves the Patriots, pretty much ensured it was going to be run all the way up the flagpole regardless of how much initial merit, or lack thereof, it appeared to have. Once Mortenson's report came out, which was almost instantaneous, there was no focking way this thing was going away quietly.

 

Hell, he is taking it about as seriously as possible and jagoffs like ###### Sherman are still accusing him of bias. Imagine if Goodell had summarily said "Yeah, nothing to see here, it was the weather." People would be losing their focking minds.

 

 

Agreed to a point. But why couldn't a "behind the scenes" initial soft investigation to see if there was anything be done first. Just a little due diligence and fact finding before launching a full court press, public investigation?

 

Surly the league office recieves all sorts of 'cheating' emails and tip off's all the time. I'm sure other teams send in video tape of the other team doing stuff or maybe an awful officiating call to the league office all the time. I would think they do some simple fact finding behind the scenes before going "public" with allegations?

 

Of course this is Goodell and the NFL and they are notorious for handling things poorly so who knows.

[drobeski 3,061]

Let's all keep in mind, the patriots turned over the smoking gun video evidence themselves early in the investigation.

If that doesn't scream guilt I don't know what does.

[NorthernVike 2,096]

Let's all keep in mind, the patriots turned over the smoking gun video evidence themselves early in the investigation.

If that doesn't scream guilt I don't know what does.

What are you, a fake internets lawyer?

[parrot 789]

 

 

Agreed to a point. But why couldn't a "behind the scenes" initial soft investigation to see if there was anything be done first. Just a little due diligence and fact finding before launching a full court press, public investigation?

 

Surly the league office recieves all sorts of 'cheating' emails and tip off's all the time. I'm sure other teams send in video tape of the other team doing stuff or maybe an awful officiating call to the league office all the time. I would think they do some simple fact finding behind the scenes before going "public" with allegations?

 

Of course this is Goodell and the NFL and they are notorious for handling things poorly so who knows.

 

I don't really believe that this was a sting, or that things were put in motion before the game. I think if the league had much in the way of advanced notice it almost certainly would have gone away quietly - a message to the team that said "If you're doing anything, KNOCK IT OFF."

 

My guess, and it is just a guess, is that it all happened very fast during that first half, in a very public venue with literally hundreds of reporters around, and there was very little chance to contain it from there.

[BiPolarBear 495]

ESPN Around the Horn

 

Woody Paige chalk board sign:

 

"Now we know what it means when Tom Brady airs one out."

 

[Kanil 521]

 

Worms, in all seriousness for me......

 

If the answers to your questions all were that there was nothing to this story then do you really think the NFL would go on 40+ interviews and let this go on and on like they have? Or is it more plausible there IS something but they are being very careful before dropping the bombshell as they are dotting every i, crossing every t, watching every videotape to make sure so they don't wrongfully do something or miss something (i.e. Ray Rice video).

 

Common sense tells me that surely if there was nothing, the NFL wouldn't be doing all this.

 

Now IF the NFL does have nothing then they come out looking stupid..... but just sayin'

 

I think the NFL is dragging it out so as not to have to apply punishment for the SB. Just my opinion from the evidence I believe.

[drobeski 3,061]

What are you, a fake internets lawyer?

a plumber, that toilet was clogged

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With football air

[drobeski 3,061]

ESPN Around the Horn

 

Woody Paige chalk board sign:

 

"Now we know what it means when Tom Brady airs one out."

 

Denver

[Kanil 521]

ESPN Around the Horn

 

Woody Paige chalk board sign:

 

"Now we know what it means when Tom Brady airs one out."

 

I don't know how that guy still has a job. Thank god for the internets so I don't have to get all my sports news from that clown.

[drobeski 3,061]

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-patriots-balls-could-deflate-2015-1

SPORTS

 

 

A Physicist Emailed Us To Explain Exactly How The Patriots' Balls Could Magically Deflate

JAY YAROW JAN. 26, 2015, 9:30 AM 37,999 116

Maddie Meyer/Getty Images

Science is on Tom's side.

 

On Saturday, Patriots coach Bill Belichick gave a surreal press conference where he explained how the Patriots footballs could have deflated without any illegal action on his team's part.

 

His explanation wasn't the clearest thing I'd ever heard, and I said so in a post covering the press conference. In response to my post, Kirk Hackett, a retired physicist who worked for the Air Force, emailed me to explain exactly how the Patriots' balls could have deflated even when the Colts' balls did not.

 

It basically comes down to this: The Patriots do something to prepare the balls. Their preparation increases the PSI by 1 pound. Over time that PSI would naturally deflate by a pound once the preparation is done. But the Patriots also hand the ball to the referees, who artificially let out 1 pound. So, then the ball naturally loses about one more PSI, making it underinflated.

 

Make of that what you will!

 

Hackett emailed me his credentials after I asked for them. He says, "As far as I go, you might be able to google me. I am retired and used to work at the Air Force Research Laboratory in Directed Energy. At one time, I was President of the Directed Energy Professional Society. As far as academic credentials go, my Bachelors with a physics major is from Dartmouth (1977), and my PhD in Physics is from MIT (1983). I could dig my diplomas out of the closet, but that is a bit of a hassle."

 

Here is the full email:

 

Dear Sir,

 

As a physicist, and having listened to Belichick's press conference earlier today, I can tell that what he said made a lot of sense from a scientist's point of view.

 

When the football is rubbed and squeezed, work is being done on the ball, and it will get hotter. If you want, describe the heating as due to friction. When the rubbing stops, the ball will cool back to the environmental temperature. The time constant for cooling depends basically on the materials used in the ball, but pigskin is likely a very poor thermal conductor, which would mean longer times, other things being equal.

 

The air inside the ball, only a few grams in weight, will equilibrate with the walls of the football quite rapidly seconds.

 

If the ball is still warmer than the environment when given to the referees, then they will be deflating the ball back to the requested 12.5 psi. By the way, just inflating the ball with a pump adds some heat to it. That is because the air is squeezed until the pressure in the pump is higher than the pressure in the ball before the air goes into the ball. The squeezing heats the air, quite a bit, but the air doesn't have a lot of mass.

 

So, now when the ball equilibrates with the environment, by cooling, the pressure will decrease, according to the Ideal Gas Law, particularly if the environment is significantly less warm than the environment where the ball was inflated and then checked by the referees. Obviously, it was a lot colder on the football field, and got even colder later in the evening.

 

This scenario, in my professional opinion, completely explains the data that has been reported.

 

Differences with the balls used by the Colts could easily be explained by different preparation procedures, or even longer waits between preparation and the referee check. Especially if the the Colts QB, Luck, likes higher initial ball pressure as has been reported.

 

Now, I have something bad to say about the media. You pinheads have been convicting Belichick and Brady without the facts or doing an investigation.

 

Some of you have even gone so far as to demand the Patriots be disqualified from the Super Bowl. Others have called Brady and/or Belichick a liar.

 

One of your colleagues at BI, Tony Manfred, is a prime offender.

 

In a just world, you the media, would be apologizing or get sued for everything you own. This was obviously done with malicious intent. Unfortunately, one of the more unjust aspects of press freedom is that the media is shielded from being sued by public figures. That leaves the media free, except by their own restraint, to lie, sensationalize, and slander. I have been noticing less and less restraint by the media.

 

At the bottom of this message is a simple calculation on the ball pressure, just moving it from inside to outside that I did a few days ago. It is consistent with the study that the Patriots did, but Belichick's press conference provided new details that validated my position even further.

 

Have a great day!

 

Sincerely,

 

Kirk

 

Kirk E. Hackett, PhD

Physicist

 

I wrote the following last Wednesday:

 

There has been a fair amount of bad comment about whether temperature can account for the observed football deflation in the AFC Championship game.

 

Many of the calculations just use the pressure measured by a gauge on the ball, but this is a mistake. You need to account for the fact that the measurement is a gauge measurement, not an absolute measurement of pressure.

 

This is the argument:

 

If the balls were initially inflated to 12.5 psi (the minimum) in a locker room at 75 F, then the pressure inside the balls at 45 F (like at halftime on the field) would be about 11 psi already down by 2 psi from the nominal 13 psi inflation pressure. The calculation is trivial, uses the Ideal Gas Law, the fact that the pressure measurements are gauge measurements (relative to the base atmospheric pressure, (I used 14.7 psi for the base atmospheric pressure)), not absolute pressure measurements, and assume the football volume doesn't change.

 

Additionally, each pressure measurement takes a little air out of the ball, and multiple measurements can also significantly reduce the pressure. Cyclists understand this.

 

Given the multiple pressure measurements that were made, plus natural leakage due to rough play, plus temperature differences, all this could very easily result in more than a 2 psi pressure drop, measured at or near field conditions.

 

Here are the numbers:

 

75 F = 297 Kelvin (Need to use absolute temperatures)

45 F = 280.4 Kelvin

 

280.4/297 = the absolute pressure ratio = (X +14.7)/(12.5 + 14.7)

 

Where X is the gauge measurement of the ball pressure at the field temperature, 45 F.

 

X = 10.98 psi.

 

2 psi less than the nominal 13 psi. Just from temperature differences.

 

There have also been reports that the balls weighed less. Ridiculous. Air doesn't weigh much. You would have to weigh the balls to a couple of tenths of a percentage, and you couldn't do that by just hefting the balls.

 

Why don't you report this and send it along to the NFL, too. It sure would be good to shut up the ESPN sensation mongers.

 

The NFL should do a real technical analysis, and some experiments.

 

Cheers,

 

Kirk

 

Kirk Hackett, PhD

Physicist

[NewbieJr 541]

Lolol

[drobeski 3,061]

Lolol

big word make mongoloid block head giggle?

[Magnificent Bastard 192]

Denial is a stinky cologne.

[BiPolarBear 495]

It basically comes down to this: The Patriots do something to prepare the balls.

 

Right, Kirk. And when they stop; they won't be cheating anymore.

[drobeski 3,061]

 

Right, Kirk. And when they stop; they won't be cheating anymore.

bet they aren't "found guilty" ?

So you consider pre inspection preparation of the ball cheating ? Link to that rule ?

[Sho Nuff 720]

I never thought drobs could be any more of a sheep than he already was with politics. ..but wow, this fanboy believes anything told to him by the pats and others.

[drobeski 3,061]

I never thought drobs could be any more of a sheep than he already was with politics. ..but wow, this fanboy believes anything told to him by the pats and others.

and you believe they cheated because you're a hack sheep. Big whipdeedoodah

[Sho Nuff 720]

and you believe they cheated because your a hack sheep. Big whipdeedoodah

Link to me saying cheated?

 

Hack? Um ok.

 

I believe they tampered with the balls because its the most logical conclusion given what is known.

 

But I understand that you dont understand logical conclusions.

[drobeski 3,061]

Link to me saying cheated?

 

Hack? Um ok.

 

I believe they tampered with the balls because its the most logical conclusion given what is known.

 

But I understand that you dont understand logical conclusions.

logic is my living fockchop.

[jerryskids 7,085]

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-patriots-balls-could-deflate-2015-1

SPORTS

 

 

A Physicist Emailed Us To Explain Exactly How The Patriots' Balls Could Magically Deflate

JAY YAROW JAN. 26, 2015, 9:30 AM 37,999 116

Maddie Meyer/Getty Images

Science is on Tom's side.

 

 

(1) If the ball is still warmer than the environment when given to the referees, then they will be deflating the ball back to the requested 12.5 psi.

(2) Many of the calculations just use the pressure measured by a gauge on the ball, but this is a mistake. You need to account for the fact that the measurement is a gauge measurement, not an absolute measurement of pressure.

 

This is the argument:

 

If the balls were initially inflated to 12.5 psi (the minimum) in a locker room at 75 F, then the pressure inside the balls at 45 F (like at halftime on the field) would be about 11 psi already down by 2 psi from the nominal 13 psi inflation pressure. The calculation is trivial, uses the Ideal Gas Law, the fact that the pressure measurements are gauge measurements (relative to the base atmospheric pressure, (I used 14.7 psi for the base atmospheric pressure)), not absolute pressure measurements, and assume the football volume doesn't change.

 

 

I isolated two parts of this which I find interesting.

 

(1) This implies that the team (Pats) tell the refs at inspection that they want the balls at the lower limit. Is that true? If so, that means that if the refs find them overinflated then they will let air out. That somewhat eliminates my theory that the Pats knew the balls were under the limit under normal temperature, and heated them to get to 12.5. Instead the heating might have gotten them over 12.5 and the refs let air out. Seems to me the refs can solve this riddle though, since they were there.

 

(2) I think it makes sense what he says about a gauge pressure measurement (they are relative to base atmospheric pressure, not absolute pressure measurements). If so, it also helps the Pats case.

[drobeski 3,061]

 

I isolated two parts of this which I find interesting.

 

(1) This implies that the team (Pats) tell the refs at inspection that they want the balls at the lower limit. Is that true? If so, that means that if the refs find them overinflated then they will let air out. That somewhat eliminates my theory that the Pats knew the balls were under the limit under normal temperature, and heated them to get to 12.5. Instead the heating might have gotten them over 12.5 and the refs let air out. Seems to me the refs can solve this riddle though, since they were there.

 

(2) I think it makes sense what he says about a gauge pressure measurement (they are relative to base atmospheric pressure, not absolute pressure measurements). If so, it also helps the Pats case.

you must be one of those sheep snuffles is crying about

[Sho Nuff 720]

logic is my living fockchop.

 

You must make a crappy living then...because you make the most illogical arguments ever on this board.

[drobeski 3,061]

 

You must make a crappy living then...because you make the most illogical arguments ever on this board.

dude, you're an idiot a hack and a failure at everything. Thr whole board knows this. You have no skin in this game but you automatically pick the opposite side as me.

Youre an obsessed wacko Do you know what that makes your opinion worth ?

 

Seriously, if you don't like my opinions ignore them, is it that hard ? Is your weirdo obsession with me that strong that you just can't stop following me around ?

 

For gods sake man grow the fock up and shut up.

 

Jesus Christ.