Trump probably hasn't paid income taxes in 20 years

[cbfalcon 825]

The only thing left I can think of is foreign entanglements. Or he's not nearly as rich as he's said but I don't think you could necessarily glean that from a tax return

 

My gut tells me it's just a case of all these things we are already confident in being confirmed. He isn't rich (may even be upside down). He has ties to Russia. He hasn't paid taxes in 20 years. He has never given a dime to charity. Etc.

 

And anyone with some media savvy will tell you that opinion pieces stating that things are likely are about 5% as damaging as front page headlines confirming. Right now, it's speculation. And Trump can just say "Lies!" if even 1% of it's wrong...But if the records are released and things are confirmed, then it becomes a part of Clinton ads, the moderator at the next debate asks about it, and so forth.

[rholio 339]

what a bunch of losers the American citizens are - our tax code and our laws are so convoluted that few understand them yet we not only vote for but support and vehemently defend the very people who have made and profited from these laws whole essentially giving citizens the finger

Hillary, Trump, The New York Times, United Continental... doesn't matter, they are all part of the sham that allows them to skip out on the bill for roads, schools, police, fire, etc. But it's OK bc its "legal".

Nice. That right there is what makes our country sh!t.

So vote for someone that will change things... Johnson / Weld 2016.

[wiffleball 4,790]

 

My gut tells me it's just a case of all these things we are already confident in being confirmed. He isn't rich (may even be upside down). He has ties to Russia. He hasn't paid taxes in 20 years. He has never given a dime to charity. Etc.

 

 

 

In a separate reporting weeks ago, it was reported that Don and his affiliated entities are carrying about twice as much debt as Don has claimed in the past.

 

Remember "Some people say I'm not carring enough debt. It's amazing fora company of this size, we carry SUCH a tiny amount of debt!"

 

 

 

 

 

All of this tends to fall into the same tenet of human behavior seen in bars and playgrounds world-wide. If a guy has to beg you to "believe me, I have such a great life, I'm such a good (whatever), it's not even funny. Believe me!"

 

....Don't believe him.

[DankNuggs 305]

 

In a separate reporting weeks ago, it was reported that Don and his affiliated entities are carrying about twice as much debt as Don has claimed in the past.

 

Remember "Some people say I'm not carring enough debt. It's amazing fora company of this size, we carry SUCH a tiny amount of debt!"

 

 

 

 

 

All of this tends to fall into the same tenet of human behavior seen in bars and playgrounds world-wide. If a guy has to beg you to "believe me, I have such a great life, I'm such a good (whatever), it's not even funny. Believe me!"

 

....Don't believe him.

Alot of that is a choice not really up to trump as the developer.... If he builds a highrise, the most a bank is going to lend him on it is 65-70% loan to value... That means he needs to come up with 30-35% equity... He likely takes on institutional partners to finance that. When they underwrite the transaction, it may make more sense for them to put up substantially more equity depending on the return on investment, and the strategy of the fund. That isn't necessarily a good thing for trump, as the equity will generally have hurdle rates that the equity partner needs to hit before any pari pasu profit splits occur. Versus debt where anything on top of the historically low rates is gravy and just split according to the deal structure.

[parrot 789]

“And that’s why Donald Trump is the person best positioned to fix it,” Christie said. “There’s no one who’s shown more genius in their way to maneuver about the tax code as he rightfully used the laws to do that. And he’s already promised in his tax plan to change many of these special interest loopholes and get rid of them so you don’t have this kind of situation.”

 

Christie is such a POS. I remember when Warren Buffett suggested changing one of these "special interest loopholes", the refrain from Christie - and MANY conservatives, but Christie was one of the loudest - was that he should just "shut up" and pay more taxes if he doesn't like the tax code as it exists.

 

But when the Donald reaps the ongoing benefits of reporting a near billion dollar loss, that makes him "a genius" and the guy to fix it. So focking dumb.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

I'm surprised at how some people aren't pissed about this.

 

I pay something like 20% effective tax rate on basically a very good upper middle class income. I'm not complaining but I've still got money stressors and thinks I'd like to get/do but can't afford.

 

This assh0le is supposedly worth ten billion dollars but he doesn't pay a focking dime. Hard working middle class people like you and I are busting our humps to fund the government while this guy -- who wants to be president -- is contributing NOTHING from his billions.

 

Sorry but that's bullsh1t any way you slice it.

[Willis McGahee's Dentist 61]

I'm surprised at how some people aren't pissed about this.

 

I pay something like 20% effective tax rate on basically a very good upper middle class income. I'm not complaining but I've still got money stressors and thinks I'd like to get/do but can't afford.

 

This assh0le is supposedly worth ten billion dollars but he doesn't pay a focking dime. Hard working middle class people like you and I are busting our humps to fund the government while this guy -- who wants to be president -- is contributing NOTHING from his billions.

 

Sorry but that's bullsh1t any way you slice it.

The only people who aren't pissed about this are the ones who would still support Trump even if he took a sh!t on their parents. Donald Trump has proven to be one of the most unlikeable, disgusting people in the country, yet his supporters pretend not to see it.

 

Trump had the nerve to complain about the shape that American highways and airports are in, yet one of the richest people in the country and he doesn't pay a penny in taxes to help out.

[MDC 7,484]

That's just being smart. And if you elect ztrump he's going to fix the rigged system so that guys like himself can't cheat anymore.

 

You've got to be a special kind of stupid to vote for this one.

[Strike 5,570]

I'm surprised at how some people aren't pissed about this.

 

I pay something like 20% effective tax rate on basically a very good upper middle class income. I'm not complaining but I've still got money stressors and thinks I'd like to get/do but can't afford.

 

This assh0le is supposedly worth ten billion dollars but he doesn't pay a focking dime. Hard working middle class people like you and I are busting our humps to fund the government while this guy -- who wants to be president -- is contributing NOTHING from his billions.

 

Sorry but that's bullsh1t any way you slice it.

 

 

Don't fret. All the people who work for him pay taxes so just by being in business he's helping fund our government.

 

[drobeski 3,061]

I'm surprised at how some people aren't pissed about this.

 

I pay something like 20% effective tax rate on basically a very good upper middle class income. I'm not complaining but I've still got money stressors and thinks I'd like to get/do but can't afford.

 

This assh0le is supposedly worth ten billion dollars but he doesn't pay a focking dime. Hard working middle class people like you and I are busting our humps to fund the government while this guy -- who wants to be president -- is contributing NOTHING from his billions.

 

Sorry but that's bullsh1t any way you slice it.

you wouldn't know hard work if it slapped you upside the head

[Baker Boy 1,703]

I'm surprised at how some people aren't pissed about this.

I pay something like 20% effective tax rate on basically a very good upper middle class income. I'm not complaining but I've still got money stressors and thinks I'd like to get/do but can't afford.

This assh0le is supposedly worth ten billion dollars but he doesn't pay a focking dime. Hard working middle class people like you and I are busting our humps to fund the government while this guy -- who wants to be president -- is contributing NOTHING from his billions.

Sorry but that's bullsh1t any way you slice it.

Why are you pissed at Trump you Moron. Your government passed this tax code and it has all been bought and paid for. This is your fault and all your tax and spend buddies who don't understand how the system works and who is in the system.

[DankNuggs 305]

I'm surprised at how some people aren't pissed about this.

 

I pay something like 20% effective tax rate on basically a very good upper middle class income. I'm not complaining but I've still got money stressors and thinks I'd like to get/do but can't afford.

 

This assh0le is supposedly worth ten billion dollars but he doesn't pay a focking dime. Hard working middle class people like you and I are busting our humps to fund the government while this guy -- who wants to be president -- is contributing NOTHING from his billions.

 

Sorry but that's bullsh1t any way you slice it.

Well, that isn't necessarily true. Federal income tax is one of a myriad of avenues that the gov gets its hands on your money. Most people aren't aware of all those avenues because they make a wage, pay fed and state income taxes, and thats it.

 

If we want to just talk about Fed income taxes, it seems you are upset that you can carry previous losses forward. I could show you several scenarios that would show you it is fair to do that, im sure you can do the math. And often in the real estate world you aren't 'not paying taxes' you are deferring them by lowering your basis.

 

taxes are ridiculously complicated, and to pretend you can dumb it down into laymans soundbytes is fine for politics, but its woefully inaccurate.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,493]

Capital gains should be only for the first million. After that, regular tax rate. Capital losses only deductible up to a million. Problem solved

[crackattack 520]

I'm surprised at how some people aren't pissed about this.

 

I pay something like 20% effective tax rate on basically a very good upper middle class income. I'm not complaining but I've still got money stressors and thinks I'd like to get/do but can't afford.

 

This assh0le is supposedly worth ten billion dollars but he doesn't pay a focking dime. Hard working middle class people like you and I are busting our humps to fund the government while this guy -- who wants to be president -- is contributing NOTHING from his billions.

 

Sorry but that's bullsh1t any way you slice it.

It is bullsh1t, but your anger seems misplaced. Why are you angry at the guy using the law in his favor? You should be angry at the lawmakers that allow this abuse. Plus, if you're mad at Trump, your list of businesses or individuals that use tax laws to pay litte/none/less then they should would be a long focking list.

[jerryskids 6,827]

Well, that isn't necessarily true. Federal income tax is one of a myriad of avenues that the gov gets its hands on your money. Most people aren't aware of all those avenues because they make a wage, pay fed and state income taxes, and thats it.

 

If we want to just talk about Fed income taxes, it seems you are upset that you can carry previous losses forward. I could show you several scenarios that would show you it is fair to do that, im sure you can do the math. And often in the real estate world you aren't 'not paying taxes' you are deferring them by lowering your basis.

 

taxes are ridiculously complicated, and to pretend you can dumb it down into laymans soundbytes is fine for politics, but its woefully inaccurate.

 

Great post. Unfortunately it went so far over Worms' head that if he looked up he wouldn't see it. It's funny how people like him accuse conservatives of parroting sound bites, yet he is so deeply in bed with this one.

[rholio 339]

Capital gains should be only for the first million. After that, regular tax rate. Capital losses only deductible up to a million. Problem solved

Acreed.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

 

Great post. Unfortunately it went so far over Worms' head that if he looked up he wouldn't see it. It's funny how people like him accuse conservatives of parroting sound bites, yet he is so deeply in bed with this one.

Oh so you can speak for me now?

 

Dank has some points but ultimately I think if you aren't contributing anything in federal taxes you are unfit to be head of the federal government.

 

"Yeah but.." I know. I know he can do it and I know why. Doesn't change the fact that he's paid nothing in and now wants the highest office in the land.

 

HTH

[IGotWorms 4,058]

That's just being smart. And if you elect ztrump he's going to fix the rigged system so that guys like himself can't cheat anymore.

 

You've got to be a special kind of stupid to vote for this one.

It's like they want to be focked in the ass by a con man

[IGotWorms 4,058]

you wouldn't know hard work if it slapped you upside the head

My work may not be as physically demanding as unclogging sh1tters, but I beg to differ nonetheless

[parrot 789]

Capital gains should be only for the first million. After that, regular tax rate. Capital losses only deductible up to a million. Problem solved

 

So would they be nailed to the one tax year in which they are realized? Which is to say no carry forward/back?

 

Currently for individuals, capital losses are first used to offset capital gains and then up to just $3000 of other types of income. But the remaining loss can be carried forward into perpetuity I think. Corporations have a 3 year carry back and 5 year carry forward period for a capital loss, as opposed to a 20 year carry forward for a Net Operating Loss, IIRC. Also a C-corp can't use a capital loss to offset any amount of regular income, so the carry back/forward only applies to capital gains.

[Reality 3,121]

 

Clinton Campaign Admits Hillary Used Same Tax Avoidance "Scheme" As Trump

Well this is a little awkward. With the leaked 1995 Trump tax returns 'scandal' focused on the billionaire's yuuge "net operating loss" and how it might have 'legally' enabled him to pay no taxes for years, we now discover none other than Hillary Rodham Clinton utilized a $700,000 "loss"to avoid paying some taxes in 2015.

 

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-02/clinton-campaign-admits-hillary-used-same-tax-avoidance-scheme-trump

 

 

 

Finally, as we noted previously, the NYT itself is also perfectly happy to take advantage of the US tax to minimize the amount of money it pays to the government: in 2014 the company got a tax refund of $3.6 million despite having a $29.9 million pretax profit, an effective negative tax rate for 2014, which it explained was favorably affected by approximately $21.1 million for the reversal of reserves for uncertain tax positions due to the lapse of applicable statutes of limitations.

 

 

 

The New York Times as well...

 

 

 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,493]

 

So would they be nailed to the one tax year in which they are realized? Which is to say no carry forward/back?

 

Currently for individuals, capital losses are first used to offset capital gains and then up to just $3000 of other types of income. But the remaining loss can be carried forward into perpetuity I think. Corporations have a 3 year carry back and 5 year carry forward period for a capital loss, as opposed to a 20 year carry forward for a Net Operating Loss, IIRC. Also a C-corp can't use a capital loss to offset any amount of regular income, so the carry back/forward only applies to capital gains.

Sure. Here is a nice scam I overheard one time: Two guys own a business. One guy dies, and when the will is read, he leaves his half of the business to his wife. In the will the value of the company is exaggerated. When she sells the other half of the business to the partner, at a reduced rate, she now gets a tax credit that she can use for years because she took a " loss". The guy who set it up, said she wouldn't have to pay taxes for 15 years. Perfectly legal I guess. Trump did the same thing I'm sure, just on a giant scale.

[drobeski 3,061]

Fake outrage Richter scale pegged.

[rholio 339]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-02/clinton-campaign-admits-hillary-used-same-tax-avoidance-scheme-trump

 

 

 

 

 

The New York Times as well...

 

 

And they went public with that... how bad must be the focktard that won't?

[penultimatestraw 473]

what a bunch of losers the American citizens are - our tax code and our laws are so convoluted that few understand them yet we not only vote for but support and vehemently defend the very people who have made and profited from these laws whole essentially giving citizens the finger

 

Hillary, Trump, The New York Times, United Continental... doesn't matter, they are all part of the sham that allows them to skip out on the bill for roads, schools, police, fire, etc. But it's OK bc its "legal".

Nice. That right there is what makes our country sh!t.

It's not just OK, it's smart! I think it is a perverse extension of the American dream, as some imagine themselves earning bazillions while circumventing taxes. Until they realize you don't have to be rich to game the system.

[parrot 789]

Sure. Here is a nice scam I overheard one time: Two guys own a business. One guy dies, and when the will is read, he leaves his half of the business to his wife. In the will the value of the company is exaggerated. When she sells the other half of the business to the partner, at a reduced rate, she now gets a tax credit that she can use for years because she took a " loss". The guy who set it up, said she wouldn't have to pay taxes for 15 years. Perfectly legal I guess. Trump did the same thing I'm sure, just on a giant scale.

 

Sure she can, but like I said before, she can only use that to offset $3000.00 of other income each year. This is exactly what the Clintons are doing above; yes they have $700,000 loss, but they're going to be a long time using it up at $3000.00 a pop.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "Sure." Let me try to clarify my original question; if you're going to allow people to use up to $1M in capital losses in a given year, would they be able to offset regular income with it? Because if so that would be probably be a great gift to those who regularly traffic in capital gains and losses, not a hardship.

 

It's also not clear at all how Trump's operating loss came about as far as I know.

[Frank M 181]

 

Great post. Unfortunately it went so far over Worms' head that if he looked up he wouldn't see it. It's funny how people like him accuse conservatives of parroting sound bites, yet he is so deeply in bed with this one.

 

It's more a question of optics than whether or not it's perfectly legal to take advantage of available loopholes. When you're attempting to champion the little guy busting his ass to get to or stay in the middle class, it looks bad that not only do you lose nearly a billion dollars in a year, but you get some kind of advantage because of it that he has absolutely no chance to use himself.

 

Whether it's reality or not, when Trump finds ways to avoid taxes, even in a perfectly legal way, people look at that and think that they're paying taxes to keep guys like Trump rich and it solidifies the perception that the wealthy run the country.

[DankNuggs 305]

Sure. Here is a nice scam I overheard one time: Two guys own a business. One guy dies, and when the will is read, he leaves his half of the business to his wife. In the will the value of the company is exaggerated. When she sells the other half of the business to the partner, at a reduced rate, she now gets a tax credit that she can use for years because she took a " loss". The guy who set it up, said she wouldn't have to pay taxes for 15 years. Perfectly legal I guess. Trump did the same thing I'm sure, just on a giant scale.

Your tax basis has nothing to do with declared value

[parrot 789]

And they went public with that... how bad must be the focktard that won't?

 

The Clintons saved a whole $1,000 in taxes right there.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,493]

 

Sure she can, but like I said before, she can only use that to offset $3000.00 of other income each year. This is exactly what the Clintons are doing above; yes they have $700,000 loss, but they're going to be a long time using it up at $3000.00 a year.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "Sure." Let me try to clarify my original question; if you're going to allow people to use up to $1M in capital losses in a given year, would they be able to offset regular income with it? Because if so that would be probably be a great gift to those who regularly traffic in capital gains and losses, not a hardship.

 

It's also not clear at all how Trump's operating loss came about as far as I know.

Might have to bring that number down then. But I still think only the first million of a capital gain should be taxed at the special rate. The rest should be treated as regular income

[DankNuggs 305]

 

Sure she can, but like I said before, she can only use that to offset $3000.00 of other income each year. This is exactly what the Clintons are doing above; yes they have $700,000 loss, but they're going to be a long time using it up at $3000.00 a pop.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "Sure." Let me try to clarify my original question; if you're going to allow people to use up to $1M in capital losses in a given year, would they be able to offset regular income with it? Because if so that would be probably be a great gift to those who regularly traffic in capital gains and losses, not a hardship.

 

It's also not clear at all how Trump's operating loss came about as far as I know.

It's probably a write down of value based on the casino business bankruptcy.

[parrot 789]

Might have to bring that number down then. But I still think only the first million of a capital gain should be taxed at the special rate. The rest should be treated as regular income

 

That part I'm fine with. But you have to take this stuff over the hurdles and look at how things are inter-connected and unintended consequences.

[parrot 789]

It's probably a write down of value based on the casino business bankruptcy.

 

Yes, this is one piece of speculation I've seen.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-02/clinton-campaign-admits-hillary-used-same-tax-avoidance-scheme-trump

 

 

 

 

The New York Times as well...

 

 

 

 

But she paid taxes and a lot of them. Apples to oranges as are all of your many, many attempts at deflection:

 

In 2015, Clinton paid a federal tax rate of 34.2% and a New York state rate of 9% for a total effective tax rate of 43.2%. Her tax rate has been above 40% every year since she left the state department in 2013.

 

Clinton and her husband, Bill, claimed a total income of $10,745,378 in 2015, and paid federal taxes of $3,624,455

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4450506/hillary-clinton-tax-returns-2015/%3fsource=dam?client=safari

[Reality 3,121]

But she paid taxes and a lot of them. Apples to oranges as are all of your many, many attempts at deflection:

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/4450506/hillary-clinton-tax-returns-2015/%3fsource=dam?client=safari

 

The Clintons and their family foundation have at least five shell companies registered to the address 1209 North Orange Street in Wilmington, Delaware — which is also home to some 280,000 other companies who use the location to take advantage of the state's low taxes, limited disclosure requirements, and other business incentives.

 

Two of the five are tied to Bill and Hillary Clinton specifically. One, WJC, LLC, is used by the former president to collect his consulting fees. The other, ZFS Holdings, LLC, was used by the former secretary of state to process her $5.5 million book advance from Simon & Schuster. Three additional shell companies belong to the Clinton Foundation.

There is nothing illegal about the Clintons' decision to take advantage of Delaware's tax laws. However, on the campaign trail last week, Hillary Clinton criticized the "super-rich" who use "outrageous tax havens and loopholes" to pay fewer taxes. She pledged that, as president, she would "shut down the so-called private tax system for the mega-wealthy," including legal tax avoidance activities, in order to "make sure that everyone pays their fair share here in America."

 

 

http://theweek.com/speedreads/617761/clintons-are-using-5-shell-companies-save-taxes-delaware

 

We're all getting played Bubba, you can pick and choose who you want to be steaming mad at..

 

I fully understand that all of them will do everything in their power to give the least amount of their $$ as possible to the Government.

[parrot 789]

 

 

http://theweek.com/speedreads/617761/clintons-are-using-5-shell-companies-save-taxes-delaware

 

We're all getting played Bubba, you can pick and choose who you want to be steaming mad at..

 

I fully understand that all of them will do everything in their power to give the least amount of their $$ as possible to the Government.

 

It would be nice if they explained just what the tax advantages are here since LLCs are NOT taxable entities and any revenues that flowed through them would be allocated to Bill and Hillary at their regular income income tax rate in the end.

 

But hey, keep throwing sh!t against the wall, something might stick.

[jerryskids 6,827]

 

It would be nice if they explained just what the tax advantages are here since LLCs are NOT taxable entities and any revenues that flowed through them would be allocated to Bill and Hillary at their regular income income tax rate in the end.

 

But hey, keep throwing sh!t against the wall, something might stick.

 

I think you mean tax-exempt, not taxable, but your point is made. Also we don't know the nature of the 3 LLCs tied to the Foundation.

 

LLCs serve several purposes as I'm sure you know. One is to limit liability, which doesn't seem like a big concern to process a $5.5M book advance. Another is to provide a mechanism to offset such revenue with expenses. My guess would be that this LLC took on a lot of expenses to promote that book.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,493]

I bet the Clintons haven't paid for a meal, a flight or a hotel room since the day this foundation existed.

[parrot 789]

 

I think you mean tax-exempt, not taxable, but your point is made. Also we don't know the nature of the 3 LLCs tied to the Foundation.

 

LLCs serve several purposes as I'm sure you know. One is to limit liability, which doesn't seem like a big concern to process a $5.5M book advance. Another is to provide a mechanism to offset such revenue with expenses. My guess would be that this LLC took on a lot of expenses to promote that book.

 

No, I meant "taxable" as in "an LLC is not a taxable entity". LLCs generally don't pay income taxes. That's why they are referred to as "pass through" entities. Income passes through them and is allocated to the owners of record.

 

And yeah, they may have used them to run expenses and revenues through, but they could have done the same thing as individuals. It's not like single proprietorships don't use their expenses to offset their income.

 

As the name would indicate, limited liability is the main reason for an LLC. It does virtually nothing to shield the owner(s) from any taxes. My guess would be that you would use an LLC to receive a book advance to insulate yourself from any kind of breach of contract, but that's just spitballing. And you don't really need to guess about the expenses; there's a schedule C for the Clinton's two LLCs in their tax returns, which have been released. They're linked in this thread. Just shows again how full of sh!t Trump is when he talks about how you don't learn much from a tax return. There is plenty to be learned from a tax return.

 

For anyone trying to play false equivalency here, Trump has hundreds of LLCs. Pretty much every individual piece of property has both a unique LLC and a corporation of some sort associated with it.

[rholio 339]

I bet the Clintons haven't paid for a meal, a flight or a hotel room since the day this foundation existed.

More likely, not since Bill was a governor.