School shooting solution

[Hardcore troubadour 12,664]

Of course, all those things exist around the world, and they dont have this problem. So again, wonder what the difference could be?

You think the rest of the world pops psych drugs like the US?

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

You think the rest of the world pops psych drugs like the US?

Im sure we lead the world in that, yes, but I venture to guess Europe and Canada and Australia do to some degree as well.

 

I know Ritalin has hit china recently. All the parents want to drug their kids into good little Confucian robots.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,664]

Im sure we lead the world in that, yes, but I venture to guess Europe and Canada and Australia do to some degree as well.

 

I know Ritalin has hit china recently. All the parents want to drug their kids into good little Confucian robots.

1/3 of foreign students in their the US are Chinese. They're going to pass us up if we don't do something. Drugs are a good idea.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

1/3 of foreign students in their the US are Chinese. They're going to pass us up if we don't do something. Drugs are a good idea.

No they arent. Trust me.

 

The education system here is a joke. Yes, I know how bad the American one has become. This one is far worse.

 

I would NEVER put a kid in a public school here.

 

Dont believe the test scores stuff either. They all cheat. Rampantly and openly.

 

They can memorize like some sons of b!tches. But cant apply or think their way out of a wet paper bag.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,664]

No they arent. Trust me.

 

The education system here is a joke. Yes, I know how bad the American one has become. This one is far worse.

 

I would NEVER put a kid in a public school here.

 

Dont believe the test scores stuff either. They all cheat. Rampantly and openly.

 

They can memorize like some sons of b!tches. But cant apply or think their way out of a wet paper bag.

They sure are getting into our best colleges. Probably because they pay full tuition.

[tanatastic 2,061]

That's by state. I was immediately scolded for using that data...try again.

Lol no you were scolded for cherry picking two states with few blacks in them. You asked for a reference and I gave you a link for numbers for every state, thats enough. No need to try again, you have been given the resources you asked for.

 

Whats your endgame in this abortion of an argument? Yes we need to work on our gun issues as a country and its not just about one race, I agree. We are yee haw pro gun in a lot of ways that makes us the joke of the civilized world when it comes to this issue for sure.

 

My point was that remove AA from the equation and it ripple effects all the way down reducing gun crime drastically. But its pointless to even say since theres no solution there, so it was just fluff.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Lol no you were scolded for cherry picking two states with few blacks in them. You asked for a reference and I gave you a link for numbers for every state, thats enough. No need to try again, you have been given the resources you asked for.

 

Whats your endgame in this abortion of an argument? Yes we need to work on our gun issues as a country and its not just about one race, I agree. We are yee haw pro gun in a lot of ways that makes us the joke of the civilized world when it comes to this issue for sure.

No, I gave you the state with the most per capita gun deaths - and a link with the top ten. I was reprimanded for listing state rather than city data, but the latter is much more difficult to find. Believe me, I looked. Meanwhile, you guys continue to poo-poo suicide as a big part of our country's firearm problem.

 

Believe it or not, I've swayed a couple people on this subject. As I've said before, I was pretty laissez-faire in support of gun ownership before actually looking at the data. But the evidence is pretty compelling that guns are causing far more problems than they solve in our current system.

 

ETA Nice edit. How in the Sam he!! do you propose to remove AA from the equation?

[tanatastic 2,061]

I was reprimanded for listing state rather than city data

No, you weren’t. The gripe was with the states you picked and that they didn’t have major cities with big inner cities in them. You could have said New York State and Pennsylvania and gotten credit for NY and philly for example. For another example, If you gave me stats on California, no one would nitpick and say you need to narrow it down to Los Angeles.

 

Guns def cause more problems than they solve. Only the hoo rah and yee haw crowd disagrees with that. But then If their daughter gets clipped god forbid, that tune would change fast.

[penultimatestraw 473]

This was the gripe:

Why are you trying to define this by state? The statement was that where there are more blacks there is more gun death. Trying to define that by state is idiotic because within any given state there are places with more blacks and places with less. Let's focus our discussion on areas with high concentration of AA's versus areas with high concentrations of another race.

No, you weren’t. The gripe was with the states you picked and that they didn’t have major cities with big inner cities in them. You could have said New York State and Pennsylvania and gotten credit for NY and philly for example. For another example, If you gave me stats on California, no one would nitpick and say you need to narrow it down to Los Angeles.

Guns def cause more problems than they solve. Only the hoo rah and yee haw crowd disagrees with that. But then If their daughter gets clipped god forbid, that tune would change fast.

I didn't "pick" any states - I gave a link listing the top 10 states with highest per capita gun death rate. I was then criticized for not using more local data and including suicides in the equation.

 

We really shouldn't be arguing, because it seems we're on the same basic "side" of the issue. I'm just not as enthusiastic to scapegoat AA for our gun problem.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,594]

you can't argue with Pen about this, cause he will never allow the suicide thing to not be included. Even though suicide rates have stayed exactly the same in every country as before and after the gun bans

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,594]

This was the gripe:

I didn't "pick" any states - I gave a link listing the top 10 states with highest per capita gun death rate. I was then criticized for not using more local data and including suicides in the equation.

 

We really shouldn't be arguing, because it seems we're on the same basic "side" of the issue. I'm just not as enthusiastic to scapegoat AA for our gun problem.

 

if you take out suicides, AA make up over 50% of all gun involved homicides. That is what I call bad

[tanatastic 2,061]

This was the gripe:

 

 

I didn't "pick" any states - I gave a link listing the top 10 states with highest per capita gun death rate. I was then criticized for not using more local data and including suicides in the equation.

 

We really shouldn't be arguing, because it seems we're on the same basic "side" of the issue. I'm just not as enthusiastic to scapegoat AA for our gun problem.

Ah I see it now, ok. There is lots of blame going around but in the end fix one problem and another will take its place. Its the overall mentality and culture that would have to change. If other countries can do it, so can we in theory.

 

I do however stick to my guns that AA are the main problem both directly (they cause the most gun crime) and indirectly (people wanting protection from AA).

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

if you take out suicides, AA make up over 50% of all gun involved homicides. That is what I call bad

I already addressed this. If you were somehow able to magically eliminate all AA, our gun deaths still are off the charts relative to other high income countries.

[penultimatestraw 473]

you can't argue with Pen about this, cause he will never allow the suicide thing to not be included. Even though suicide rates have stayed exactly the same in every country as before and after the gun bans

First, for the umpteenth time, no one is talking about a complete ban on guns (except that one hypocritical dude who should zip it until he is willing to turn in his firearms). Secondly, I have previously linked data that showed gun homicides and suicides dropped after more strict gun control was enacted in this country.

 

But you're right, I'm not ignoring suicide as a big part of our gun problem. Guns do the job much more effectively than other means, and most that fail in their suicide attempt don't go on to kill themselves. Sorry if that gets your and a couple other's panties in a wad.

[wiffleball 4,647]

Well this is great. Since Trump couldn't golf over the weekend, he casually polled the members of Mar-A-Lago as to whether or not he should do something about gun control and background checks. No . Unbelievable

[Bier Meister 1,514]

 

 

But you're right, I'm not ignoring suicide as a big part of our gun problem. Sorry if that gets your and a couple other's panties in a wad.

 

i am late to the conversation.... do we have a breakdown of method used and "success" rates for suicide?

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

i am late to the conversation.... do we have a breakdown of method used and "success" rates for suicide?

We haven't talked about it specifically, because people erroneously assume if one method fails the suicidal person will off themselves some other way. But it has been studied, and guns are by far the most effective of commonly employed means. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/case-fatality/

 

I'm consistently amazed how flippant people are whenever I bring up the topic.

[Bier Meister 1,514]

 

i am late to the conversation.... do we have a breakdown of method used and "success" rates for suicide?

 

 

We haven't talked about it specifically, because people erroneously assume if one method fails the suicidal person will off themselves some other way. But it has been studied, and guns are by far the most effective of commonly employed means. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/case-fatality/

 

I'm consistently amazed how flippant people are whenever I bring up the topic.

 

2016:

firearm= 51%

suffocation= 25.9%

poisoning= 14.9%

other= 8.2%

 

No complete count is kept of suicide attempts in the U.S.; however, each year the CDC gathers data from hospitals on non-fatal injuries from self-harm as well as survey data.

 

In 2015, 505,507 people visited a hospital for injuries due to self-harm. This number suggests that for every reported suicide death, approximately 11.4 people visit a hospital for self-harm related injuries. However, because of the way these data are collected, we are not able to distinguish intentional suicide attempts from non-intentional self-harm behaviors.

 

Based on the 2016 National Survey of Drug Use and Mental Health it is estimated that 0.5 percent of the adults aged 18 or older made at least one suicide attempt. This translates to approximately 1.3 million adults. Adult females reported a suicide attempt 1.2 times as often as males. Further breakdown by gender and race are not available.

 

Based on the 2015 Youth Risk Behaviors Survey, 8.6 percent of youth in grades 9-12 reported that they had made at least one suicide attempt in the past 12 months. Girls attempted twice as often as boys (11.6% vs. 5.5%) and teens of Hispanic origin reported the highest rate of attempt (11.3%), especially Hispanic females (15.1%) when compared with white students (6.8%) and White females (9.8%). Approximately 2.8 percent reported making a suicide attempt that required treatment by a doctor or nurse.

 

For those requiring treatment, rates were highest for Hispanic students with black males (4.0%) and Hispanic males (2.9%) having higher rates than white male (0.9%) students.

 

When it comes to suicide and suicide attempts there are rate differences depending on demographic characteristics such as age, gender, ethnicity and race. Nonetheless, suicide occurs in all demographic groups.

 

https://afsp.org/about-suicide/suicide-statistics/

[Hardcore troubadour 12,664]

I already addressed this. If you were somehow able to magically eliminate all AA, our gun deaths still are off the charts relative to other high income countries.

Why the "higher income countries" caveat? Besides, African Americans are in the highest income country and still shooting each other constantly. And Africa is a nightmare rife with gun, and other types of violence (rape, machete) top to bottom. Maybe all of us aren't the same?

[Bier Meister 1,514]

 

 

I'm consistently amazed how flippant people are whenever I bring up the topic.

 

this may be attributed to causing harm to one's self vs others. being lethal, easy to use, and accessible increases the death counts for both homicide and suicide.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Why the "higher income countries" caveat? Besides, African Americans are in the highest income country and still shooting each other constantly. And Africa is a nightmare rife with gun, and other types of violence (rape, machete) top to bottom. Maybe all of us aren't the same?

Because socioeconomic status correlates with violence, and you wouldn't expect behavior to be comparable to the US in areas where basic needs like food and shelter aren't guaranteed.

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

this may be attributed to causing harm to one's self vs others.

True. But it goes beyond that, as some posters have open hostility towards suicidal individuals, or complete apathy. I never see that attitude in my line of work, though it seems pretty common amongst the geeks.

[wiffleball 4,647]

SOO, not for nothing, but I was watching a lead in to the morning news and they had bits and pieces of the kids from the Florida school shooting talking. See, here's a question, are they all gay?

[patweisers44 697]

Jesus.

 

Aside from the ridiculous arming teachers idea....please explain how you plan to pay for armed cops or veterans when school systems are already broke.

Stop sending billions in aid to shitholes like Pakistan.

[bandrus1 413]

Someone actually doing something:

 

http://fox8.com/2018/02/19/ohio-sheriff-i-am-going-to-offer-free-concealed-carry-classes-to-teachers/

 

Have you met many teachers? Wooof

[drobeski 3,061]

SOO, not for nothing, but I was watching a lead in to the morning news and they had bits and pieces of the kids from the Florida school shooting talking. See, here's a question, are they all gay?

goes hand and hand with the industry

[Strike 3,981]

Have you met many teachers? Wooof

 

Sure have. Even had some as teachers when I was in school.

[Strike 3,981]

True. But it goes beyond that, as some posters have open hostility towards suicidal individuals, or complete apathy. I never see that attitude in my line of work, though it seems pretty common amongst the geeks.

 

I have no hostility or apathy. I feel sad when people commit suicide. A kid who lived across the street from me did so a few years ago. She was like 18 and killed herself over a boy. What a focking waste of a life. But I believe it was her right to do so. It's her life.

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

I have no hostility or apathy. I feel sad when people commit suicide. A kid who lived across the street from me did so a few years ago. She was like 18 and killed herself over a boy. What a focking waste of a life. But I believe it was her right to do so. It's her life.

Fair enough. But suicidal thoughts are usually transient and impulsive, the cliche permanent solution to a temporary problem.

[Strike 3,981]

Fair enough. But suicidal thoughts are usually transient and impulsive, the cliche permanent solution to a temporary problem.

 

Still an individual's right.

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

I grew up hunting, I started in middle school and it was a way of life. My dad, brothers, and I would bird hunt 5-10 times a year and we took multiple elk hunting vacations to Jackson hole.

 

Hunting (and fishing) is how my family bonded growing up.

 

In college when I was poor I would bird hunt 40 days a year to help cut down on the cost of food.

 

 

I grew up around guns, spent time at the range, and have shot as many different types of guns as anyone on this forum save bls.

 

I do not think the semi auto rifle has a legitimate sporting or self defense use.

 

In hunting you should always make sure your first shot is lined up and will drop the animal. You should never plan on taking multiple shots. In the rare case that it becomes necessary a bolt action still works just as well.

 

In home defense a pump shotgun would be preferred.

 

I still to this day hunt with my family, we are planning a big trip next year. I would be the last person that wants to ban guns, but I think we are at a point in society where one specific type of gun is too good at killing large numbers of people without a legitimate other use.

[IGotWorms 3,317]

These anti gun control people grasping around for any, ANY other explanation are silly.

 

Its like weve got a dude guy laying there with a needle in his arm and a packet of heroin at his feet.

 

Well gee how does this happen? I dunno, maybe he had some kind of heart disease or something. Could be malnutrition or dehydration? Just a freak brain aneurysm or something?

 

Um, no. Its the focking heroin.

 

Just like here, ITS THE FOCKING GUNS. They are the cause. Not the gays or Hollywood or some ephermeral cultural thing unique to only the United States.

 

The. Guns.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,594]

We haven't talked about it specifically, because people erroneously assume if one method fails the suicidal person will off themselves some other way. But it has been studied, and guns are by far the most effective of commonly employed means. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/case-fatality/

 

I'm consistently amazed how flippant people are whenever I bring up the topic.

 

I look at it like this

 

There are x number of automobile deaths every year

 

There are x number of drunk driving deaths every year

 

These 2 belong together but are different, and lumping them together is doing yourself a diservice

 

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/past-tolls

 

https://everytownresearch.org/gun-violence-by-the-numbers/

 

62% of gun deaths are suicides

50%+ of remaining are blacks

 

so take out suicides and blacks and gun deaths drop under 5,000 a year

[posty 2,296]

So are we just blaming the generic "guns" or "rifles" to be more specific?

[Cdub100 3,384]

"Survivor" David Hogg rehearsing his lines before CNN "interview"

 

 

 

 

Disgusting.

Crisis actors. The media is playing the public. Also just a coincidence most of them are Jews...

 

https://i.redd.it/oiwjnewnndh01.jpg

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,594]

These anti gun control people grasping around for any, ANY other explanation are silly.

 

Its like weve got a dude guy laying there with a needle in his arm and a packet of heroin at his feet.

 

Well gee how does this happen? I dunno, maybe he had some kind of heart disease or something. Could be malnutrition or dehydration? Just a freak brain aneurysm or something?

 

Um, no. Its the focking heroin.

 

Just like here, ITS THE FOCKING GUNS. They are the cause. Not the gays or Hollywood or some ephermeral cultural thing unique to only the United States.

 

The. Guns.

 

wrong, again here its the JUNKIE to blame, the drug is just his choice of poison.

 

here is a poll

Drunk Driving death do you blame

 

a.) The Car

b.) The Alcohol

c.) The Driver

[Cdub100 3,384]

 

I look at it like this

 

There are x number of automobile deaths every year

 

There are x number of drunk driving deaths every year

 

These 2 belong together but are different, and lumping them together is doing yourself a diservice

 

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/past-tolls

 

https://everytownresearch.org/gun-violence-by-the-numbers/

 

62% of gun deaths are suicides

50%+ of remaining are blacks

 

so take out suicides and blacks and gun deaths drop under 5,000 a year

And the US moves into third for least gun deaths per capita.

 

Crazy... How the problem can be so well defined but most people won't talk about it cause facts are racist.

[Cdub100 3,384]

These anti gun control people grasping around for any, ANY other explanation are silly.

 

Its like weve got a dude guy laying there with a needle in his arm and a packet of heroin at his feet.

 

Well gee how does this happen? I dunno, maybe he had some kind of heart disease or something. Could be malnutrition or dehydration? Just a freak brain aneurysm or something?

 

Um, no. Its the focking heroin.

 

Just like here, ITS THE FOCKING GUNS. They are the cause. Not the gays or Hollywood or some ephermeral cultural thing unique to only the United States.

 

The. Guns.

Using your logic you should blame the needle.

 

The drug is what actually kills the person = bullet.

 

The needle is the delivery tool = gun

[edjr 5,569]

people on a message board, during a holiday weekend, arguing about what will fix anything

[Mike Honcho 4,039]

 

I look at it like this

 

There are x number of automobile deaths every year

 

There are x number of drunk driving deaths every year

 

These 2 belong together but are different, and lumping them together is doing yourself a diservice

 

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/past-tolls

 

https://everytownresearch.org/gun-violence-by-the-numbers/

 

62% of gun deaths are suicides

50%+ of remaining are blacks

 

so take out suicides and blacks and gun deaths drop under 5,000 a year

 

Hey Mr. Math...

 

22,000 Annual Suicides not included on Daily Summary Ledger

 

Suicides weren't counted in your numbers of 13,000+