Another school shooting. Houston

[5-Points 2,734]

Great suggestion. If we must live in a gawd damn police state because people are so enamored with their killing toys, they should pay for the damage control.

That flawed logic cuts both ways.

 

How about we make parents pay the cost of securing their children's schools? I don't have kids so school security is a non-issue for me. Why should I give a sh!t about it? My guns aren't shooting up your kids' schools, your kids are. Sounds like a you problem to me.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,527]

That flawed logic cuts both ways.

 

How about we make parents pay the cost of securing their children's schools? I don't have kids so school security is a non-issue for me. Why should I give a sh!t about it? My guns aren't shooting up your kids' schools, your kids are. Sounds like a you problem to me.

 

This 5-Points guy is making some great points. Five of them, in fact.

[Sho Nuff 719]

That flawed logic cuts both ways.

 

How about we make parents pay the cost of securing their children's schools? I don't have kids so school security is a non-issue for me. Why should I give a sh!t about it? My guns aren't shooting up your kids' schools, your kids are. Sounds like a you problem to me.

So in addition to taxes...and books and uniforms and everything else parents and teachers pay for for public schools...now a security fee as well?

[5-Points 2,734]

So Im addition to taxes...and books and uniforms and everything else parents and teachers pay for for public schools...now a security fee as well?

Being a parent isn't easy but if you're going to take on the responsibility then the responsibility is yours. You wouldn't want me to discipline your child if I saw them acting up but somehow I should be responsible for keeping him/her safe from other students while they're at school?

 

As far as taxing the hell out of gun owners for simply exercising a right, that seems ridiculous to me. Especially coming from the side that claimed procuring a $15 ID to vote was so cost prohibitive as to prevent people from being able to vote. But let's make gun ownership so costly that it prevents people from being able to exercise their 2A rights. That's ok.

[naomi 343]

Yeah I don't know if it's single family homes or medications but somewhere kids can't cope with anything.

 

This kid apparently targeted a girl that he was pursuing that rejected him..so he shot her.

 

Why couldn't he just awkwardly go down completely different halls the rest of his life never making eye contact with Jenny the rest of his days...maybe in the hopes shed see my sorror and know I was sincere and should date me... I mean it's one focking date Jenny...Jesus focking Christ..I mean we grew up together and you won't spend 30 minutes getting a Subway sandwich with me you focking bittch?!!

 

Ya know....like a mature high schooler.

 

The way her mom puts it is that "she finally stood up for herself." She said the kid had been pursuing her daughter in a harassing manner for months. So a week before the shooting this girl more firmly rejected him in front of other people. He "liked" her without giving a ###### about her clearly. Entitlement, like the incels.

[KSB2424 3,083]

The Internet, specifically social media.

[cbfalcon 824]

That flawed logic cuts both ways.

 

How about we make parents pay the cost of securing their children's schools? I don't have kids so school security is a non-issue for me. Why should I give a sh!t about it? My guns aren't shooting up your kids' schools, your kids are. Sounds like a you problem to me.

And I dont have guns, so your rights are a non issue for me.

 

Just kidding 5 Points. While I undoubtedly have some selfish beliefs, I also try to consider the greater good for society as a whole. I think more people doing so would benefit.......society as a whole.

[naomi 343]

Not true. The pope expressly called for holy war. Anyone who took up the cross received absolution, as well as pardon from civil crimes. It was absolutely a holy war to retrieve the holy land from the infidel.

 

Now in the case of Christianity, that required some creative doctrinal interpretation. The concept of a holy warrior was pretty much the opposite of the teachings of Christ. Whereas in Islam, its laid right out there in the big book.

 

And sure, that was all over 1,000 years ago. So hardly relevant to todays discussion.

 

The bottom line is the rulers in the Muslim war use holy war because its one of the few tools they have at their disposal to project power. Whether they actually believe their own bullshit is questionable. I think the Iranian Mullahs largely do. Other rulers, less so I think. I think the house of saud would largely like to be rid of their religious leaders, but have little choice in the matter.

 

We're basically in agreement here. I can still see how the bolded is a tool though, not the base motivation. During the time and closer into the time the military aims would have been understood in the political context. With sacralism the church is married to that context and it's a great rallying vehicle.

[5-Points 2,734]

And I dont have guns, so your rights are a non issue for me.

 

Just kidding 5 Points. While I undoubtedly have some selfish beliefs, I also try to consider the greater good for society as a whole. I think more people doing so would benefit.......society as a whole.

I am a selfish POS. I readily admit that fact. It's exactly why I decided to not have kids. I knew I wouldn't give them the time and attention they deserved or I would resent having to do so. So being held responsible for the safety of other people's children sits about as well with me as being held responsible for other people's criminal misuse of firearms.

 

I'm all for the greater good for society. I just think we have different ideas about what that entails.

[cbfalcon 824]

I'm all for the greater good for society. I just think we have different ideas about what that entails.

If you are not of the belief that keeping children safe is imperative to that societal greater good, then I suppose the chasm is too wide for much in the way of productive discussion (with me at least). Carry on.

[5-Points 2,734]

If you are not of the belief that keeping children safe is imperative to that societal greater good, then I suppose the chasm is too wide for much in the way of productive discussion (with me at least). Carry on.

Not wanting gun owners to foot the bill is not the same as not wanting kids to be safe.

[cbfalcon 824]

Not wanting gun owners to foot the bill is not the same as not wanting kids to be safe.

Oh. When you wrote...

 

I don't have kids so school security is a non-issue for me. Why should I give a sh!t about it?

 

....it made me think you didnt care that much about kids being safe at school. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

[5-Points 2,734]

Oh. When you wrote...

 

I don't have kids so school security is a non-issue for me. Why should I give a sh!t about it?

 

....it made me think you didnt care that much about kids being safe at school. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

I see. You must've missed the first line that read...

 

"That flawed logic cuts both ways".

 

Meaning both his "logic" and my "logic" were flawed.

 

No apology necessary.

[GobbleDog 816]

you didnt care that much about kids being safe at school. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

I do. I also care about Americans dealing with the highest gun violence rates and highest mass shooting rates of any 1st world country by far.

 

I'd happily forfeit my right to shoot holes in paper. 5-Pionts and his ilk... not so much.

[naomi 343]

Truth about the Crusades (not toward the point of religion being a base motivation, or a tool, though), presented by an Athiest so it should be palatable to the couple of you talking about it. Tanatastic, I don't imagine you have the attention span for this, but I think in the end you would appreciate the knowledge. Again, I'm not pro-Catholic, but to not understand The Crusades from the standpoint of being a reaction is to have a blind spot to a huge swath of history.

 

[5-Points 2,734]

 

I'd happily forfeit my right to shoot holes in paper. 5-Pionts and his ilk... not so much.

That's probably because, to me, the 2A represents more than my right to shoot holes in paper. If that's what it means to you, you should sell your guns or turn them in.

 

But you won't. Because in your big scheme we ban commercial sales of firearms. Which puts firearms manufacturers out of business. Which, coupled with buy backs and criminal confiscations and general attrition, reduces the number of firearms on the street. Which results in the value appreciation of your guns so that you may, some day, sell your guns privately for top dollar.

 

Which is why your opinion on the matter should be taken with a grain of salt.

[penultimatestraw 473]

That flawed logic cuts both ways.

 

How about we make parents pay the cost of securing their children's schools? I don't have kids so school security is a non-issue for me. Why should I give a sh!t about it? My guns aren't shooting up your kids' schools, your kids are. Sounds like a you problem to me.

I have no problem with parents footing part of the bill as well, especially since it is 99% window dressing.

 

Gun owners and parents can split the bill 50:50. Better?

[penultimatestraw 473]

Yeah, and the phenomenon of school shootings was absent then. What changed to make them all too common now?

Many things. Most have been mentioned: breakdown of families, coddling kids, glorifying violence, social media, drugs (illegal ones mostly, even though you guys love to scapegoat psych meds), etc. But widespread availability of firearms is clearly a part of the problem, too. And it's arguably the most straightforward to fix.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I like it. Treat guns just like cars. Own as many as you like. But you register them. each one. Pay a tax on each one. Carry insurance for any harm they cause on each one.

All good ideas.

[penultimatestraw 473]

breakdown of the family structure and early on forced medicating in lue of adolescents.

The true common denominators.

We've been through this before, but keep on ignoring the data I've linked.

[drobeski 3,061]

We've been through this before, but keep on ignoring the data I've linked.

has there been a study or at least some stats taken as to whether all these teen mass shooters were on mental meds or not ? If not, don't you think it should be looked into ?

Never mind mass shootings, say violent behavior to ones self or others and other indicators of what the fock is going on here?

Is your argument that mental drugs have had no play in any of these events ?

Just a coincidence? And this is proven ?

[crackattack 513]

Serious question. Have thoughts and prayers fixed it yet?

[drobeski 3,061]

Serious question. Have thoughts and prayers fixed it yet?

more mental meds! Stat!

[penultimatestraw 473]

has there been a study or at least some stats taken as to whether all these teen mass shooters were on mental meds or not ? If not, don't you think it should be looked into ?

Never mind mass shootings, say violent behavior to ones self or others and other indicators of what the fock is going on here?

Is your argument that mental drugs have had no play in any of these events ?

Just a coincidence? And this is proven ?

There hasn't been a study for the shooters specifically. Too small a sample, and HIPAA prevents us from scouring their medical records willy-nilly. But psych meds and violence has been studied. Some medications have been associated with violent behavior and suicidality in kids.

 

Multiple problems with that finding, which has been disputed due to the methodology of the studies.

1. Correlation <> causation, as kids with psych problems may be suicidal or violent anyway.

2. The magnitude of the effect was very small, like 3% had suicidal thoughts on antidepressants versus 2.5% taking placebo (can't find the same data for violence, but it's important to note that there were no increase in actual suicides).

3. The finding didn't apply to adults, who've committed the majority of mass shootings.

4. Violence has also been associated with alcohol and illegal drugs too. Who's to say there aren't multiple substances to blame?

5. The meds help a lot of people - how are you suggesting we treat mental illness in their absence?

 

I'm not saying psych meds have no role in the shootings. They might. But I think widespread availability of guns is a bigger problem, with more data to support association with increased deaths - not just the well publicized mass shootings.

[crackattack 513]

more mental meds! Stat!

Is the dad a law abiding gun owner?

[DuckStupid 40]

Many things. Most have been mentioned: breakdown of families, coddling kids, glorifying violence, social media, drugs (illegal ones mostly, even though you guys love to scapegoat psych meds), etc. But widespread availability of firearms is clearly a part of the problem, too. And it's arguably the most straightforward to fix.

[DuckStupid 40]

How about we address the other issues.

[penultimatestraw 473]

How about we address the other issues.

How about we address all the issues?

 

But I'm open to hearing your solutions to the other problems I mentioned.

[DuckStupid 40]

No, your not. The problem aint guns. Its that dont respect life.

[penultimatestraw 473]

No, your not. The problem aint guns. Its ###### that dont respect life.

Sure I am. What do you think is a practical solution to gun violence?

[DuckStupid 40]

Look, im a hunter. I have 5 guns. All in a safe. Im only one that has keys. I have one semi auto. Its a classic. Worth some money. Have not shot it in 5 years. Doubt it shoots more than 1 shell next time I shoot it. Rest are pump, more reliable in my opinion. My kids are both out of the house now. Off to college. I taught them what a gun can do. My daughter has no interest. My son deer hunts and I bring him his gun.

 

Id give up the semi if youll pay me what its worth. I dont need to shoot fast. Giving up semi auto is just plain stupid thou. Difference in shooting speed is bam, bam, bam. Versus bam, click click, bam, click, click, bam. Feel safer?

[cyclone24 1,814]

What are you doing about our gun problem?

GOP: Nothing...It's a mental illness issue.

 

What are you doing about our mental health issue?

 

GOP: Nothing.

[crackattack 513]

Is the dad a law abiding gun owner?

I guess not.

[bandrus1 413]

What are you doing about our gun problem?

GOP: Nothing...It's a mental illness issue.

 

What are you doing about our mental health issue?

 

GOP: Nothing.

GOP

 

Repeal laws prevent people with mental illness from owning guns

 

At the request of the NRA

[DuckStupid 40]

Look, im a hunter. I have 5 guns. All in a safe. Im only one that has keys. I have one semi auto. Its a classic. Worth some money. Have not shot it in 5 years. Doubt it shoots more than 1 shell next time I shoot it. Rest are pump, more reliable in my opinion. My kids are both out of the house now. Off to college. I taught them what a gun can do. My daughter has no interest. My son deer hunts and I bring him his gun.

 

Id give up the semi if youll pay me what its worth. I dont need to shoot fast. Giving up semi auto is just plain stupid thou. Difference in shooting speed is bam, bam, bam. Versus bam, click click, bam, click, click, bam. Feel safer?

I mean fuk, you get a chance to aim again with the pump action. Semi auto you just pulling trigger with barrel extended. We can ban them all, but explain to me how that keeps guns out of the hands.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Look, im a hunter. I have 5 guns. All in a safe. Im only one that has keys. I have one semi auto. Its a classic. Worth some money. Have not shot it in 5 years. Doubt it shoots more than 1 shell next time I shoot it. Rest are pump, more reliable in my opinion. My kids are both out of the house now. Off to college. I taught them what a gun can do. My daughter has no interest. My son deer hunts and I bring him his gun.

 

Id give up the semi if youll pay me what its worth. I dont need to shoot fast. Giving up semi auto is just plain stupid thou. Difference in shooting speed is bam, bam, bam. Versus bam, click click, bam, click, click, bam. Feel safer?

I don't feel unsafe.

[DuckStupid 40]

Then why you worried about gun legislation? For the kids? This last fuk did it with a shotgun and a pistol.

[DuckStupid 40]

It fn sucks that kids getting shot but cmon. Ill repeat. Most kids know better. 5 this year are fd up enough to take lives. Lets figure out why and cut its throat rather than blaming an inanimate object.

[tanatastic 2,061]

It fn sucks that kids getting shot but cmon. Ill repeat. Most kids know better. 5 this year are fd up enough to take lives. Lets figure out why and cut its throat rather than blaming an inanimate object.

In opposite order of relevance, Bullying, social media and the attention these shootings get you are what’s causing it.

[DuckStupid 40]

In opposite order of relevance, Bullying, social media and the attention these shootings get you are whats causing it.

one is easily solved. No social media until 18