Coronavirus - Doomsday

[Reality 3,121]

5 minutes ago, Leeson said:

You still can't site a post where I said we shouldn't open things up. You're implying whatever fits your agenda.

You should also do more research. The bolded is false.

What's false about it?  You seem to think we should have enough of that drug for every person in the country before we should open up.  I'm going off what you are saying, maybe you have a reading comprehension issue?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,519]

16 minutes ago, Leeson said:

I didn't think you were this dumb. In the future, I'll make sure I treat you with kids gloves. So, as not to confuse you.

I actually agreed with you about people taking advantage of the system. But, the way you worded it, it sounded like you were calling the disability fake. You then doubled down on saying mental illness is fake. Which now makes sense, because you're probably suffering from one. I will speak softly and calmly so as not to upset you.

Hope you have a wonderful day snowflake. 

 Can be fake. It’s kind of important to read that word, can. . Try harder. 

[Leeson 54]

11 minutes ago, Reality said:

What's false about it?  You seem to think we should have enough of that drug for every person in the country before we should open up.  I'm going off what you are saying, maybe you have a reading comprehension issue?

Nope. Didn't say we should have enough of that drug for every person in the country. Have you done any research on the subject? We have stats on the number of people that are infected so far. We can work off what we know and have a supply based on that. Is that a fair compromise? At present time, numerous outlets and medical professionals are saying they don't have enough. Even people that take it for other diseases are running out. Meanwhile, we are sending it to other countries. Why?

[Hardcore troubadour 15,519]

14 minutes ago, Reality said:

What's false about it?  You seem to think we should have enough of that drug for every person in the country before we should open up.  I'm going off what you are saying, maybe you have a reading comprehension issue?

Yes, yes he does. 

[Leeson 54]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

 Can be fake. It’s kind of important to read that word, can. . Try harder. 

Again, I didn't agree with all of it. But you want me to agree with you 100% or else I'm the boogey man. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,519]

Just now, Leeson said:

Again, I didn't agree with all of it. But you want me to agree with you 100% or else I'm the boogey man. 

Not at all. I didn’t speak in absolutes, but you’re claiming I have. Of course many people are entitled to disability. Many are not. 

[MTSkiBum 1,623]

11 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Well, to be fair, 99.8 to 99.9% of people get better on their own.  And those fractions of percents are very old and infirmed.

Well, I'm sold, let's keep this country shut down until every burg in America has a truckful or two of this investigational drug. 

The actual mortality looks to be between 0.4% and 1.3% with the best available data today.

One example is that currently 0.2% of NYC has passed away due to Covid-19 even though only 20% of the people have been infected according to antibody tests. There are multiple other data points including the antibody tests in California that put the mortality rate in this range.

 

[drobeski 3,061]

1 minute ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

Currently 0.2% of NYC has passed away due to Covid-19 even though only 20% of the people have been infected according to antibody tests.

The actual mortality looks to be between 0.4% and 1.3% with the best available data today.

Are you factoring in the thousands of deaths that where labeled covid, without verification they had it ?

[jerryskids 6,876]

26 minutes ago, Leeson said:

You seemed to have gone off the rails here. Like you, I have a daughter with Type 1 diabetes. She's suppose to start a new job in then next couple of weeks. She's been at home for the past 2 months in order to limit her exposure. That's not going to be an option very soon. Numbers in our city and state continue to climb. We know that a significant portion of the population think this virus is no worse than the flu and therefor won't take social distancing seriously. My daughter has made and stockpiled enough masks to hopefully protect her once she has to go out. 

The next step in preparedness is "what happens if she does get it". That's were I started reading about Remdesivir. If we are going to open everything back up, ignore social distancing rules, and not follow the guidelines, then we have a drug that may be able to save her life. But, the more I read, the more I was learning that there is a shortage. Remdesivir is used for people with other illnesses like lupus. (which also makes you think it's been approved by the FDA, but not completely approved for Covid treatment). 

I don't know how hard it is to make and I don't care what Trump thinks of people. (your reverse TDS is showing). I care about what the government is doing to protect the health of my daughter. The government is telling people it's time to reopen. Great. But, the same government's inability to be prepared to protect those most at risk, is a concern. Why don't we have more Remdesivir? Trump has enacted the Defense Production act, but according some of the articles I've read, Gilead is only giving half of it's stock to the U.S.??  WTF. If we were at war, would would we be okay with Lockheed giving half of their fighter jets to other countries? I don't think so. 

Google "shortage of Remdesivir", and read for yourself. Maybe you can find a reason why. 

 

I'm not off the rails, I'm asking you why there is a shortage.  You implied above that the US is getting only 1/2 of the stock, so that seems like part of the answer.  Perhaps Gilead has contractual obligations.  Also, should we let all of the Lupus people suffer because of COVID?  After all, we actually know that Remdesivir helps with Lupus.

I'm increasingly less concerned about my daughter.  It's clear that the mortality rates are very low, and everything I've read indicates that if she has her blood sugar under control (she does) and she has no underlying other complications (she doesn't), there is little to no increased risk for her.  The main challenge would be dealing with any flu-like disease for a T1D (e.g., ketone management, hydration, sugar levels).  She is going back to work, tomorrow I believe.  She is a hostess and server at Denny's.  She made masks for her coworkers because the ones from corporate apparently suck.  I tried to soft-convince her to find some other job which requires less people interaction, but she is an adult and I trust her to be as careful as she can be.

[MTSkiBum 1,623]

4 minutes ago, drobeski said:

Are you factoring in the thousands of deaths that where labeled covid, without verification they had it ?

I am aware of all of the assumptions in both the numerator and denominator and have read more than a few articles by epidemiologists on the best estimates for both.

[Leeson 54]

12 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Not at all. I didn’t speak in absolutes, but you’re claiming I have. Of course many people are entitled to disability. Many are not. 

I didn't speak in absolutes either. I posted that we have a shortage of Remdesivir and people made the connection that I didn't want things to open up. People here are really sensative.

[Leeson 54]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I'm not off the rails, I'm asking you why there is a shortage.  You implied above that the US is getting only 1/2 of the stock, so that seems like part of the answer.  Perhaps Gilead has contractual obligations.  Also, should we let all of the Lupus people suffer because of COVID?  After all, we actually know that Remdesivir helps with Lupus.

I'm increasingly less concerned about my daughter.  It's clear that the mortality rates are very low, and everything I've read indicates that if she has her blood sugar under control (she does) and she has no underlying other complications (she doesn't), there is little to no increased risk for her.  The main challenge would be dealing with any flu-like disease for a T1D (e.g., ketone management, hydration, sugar levels).  She is going back to work, tomorrow I believe.  She is a hostess and server at Denny's.  She made masks for her coworkers because the ones from corporate apparently suck.  I tried to soft-convince her to find some other job which requires less people interaction, but she is an adult and I trust her to be as careful as she can be.

No. Are we unable to manufacture enough of the drug because Gilead won't increase production? Could they use another facility (perhaps one of those half dozen that Bill Gates has set up) to produce more. I'm wondering if they don't want to let anyone else produce it. It makes me wonder what's the point of the Defense Production Act. Use it to make sure we don't have shortages. It's not rocket surgery.

I'm glad you're not concerned about your daughter. I am about mine. She will be working at the university and may have trouble limiting interaction. 

[The Observer 641]

14 minutes ago, drobeski said:

Are you factoring in the thousands of deaths that where labeled covid, without verification they had it ?

Fake news

[Hawkeye21 2,406]

1 minute ago, The Observer said:

Fake news

I'm not so sure about that.  Some of these COVID-19 deaths seem sketchy to me.  Some legitimately have the virus but were already dying from other causes.  I'm sure the virus was a cause of death but it's misleading to think it's the main reason and it skews the overall numbers.  It's stuff like this that I can't put myself 100% on one side or the other.  There just isn't accurate enough data to take a stance on how serious it is right now.  I'm leaning more towards opening things up and seeing what happens.

[Leeson 54]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm not so sure about that.  Some of these COVID-19 deaths seem sketchy to me.  Some legitimately have the virus but were already dying from other causes.  I'm sure the virus was a cause of death but it's misleading to think it's the main reason and it skews the overall numbers.  It's stuff like this that I can't put myself 100% on one side or the other.  There just isn't accurate enough data to take a stance on how serious it is right now.  I'm leaning more towards opening things up and seeing what happens.

Step back and ask why isn't there accurate data?

[Hawkeye21 2,406]

Just now, Leeson said:

Step back and ask why isn't there accurate data?

I don't think there is enough oversight.  It looks to me that every state and every county does things differently.  How can we have accurate data unless everyone is on the same page?

[The Observer 641]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm not so sure about that.  Some of these COVID-19 deaths seem sketchy to me.  Some legitimately have the virus but were already dying from other causes.  I'm sure the virus was a cause of death but it's misleading to think it's the main reason and it skews the overall numbers.  It's stuff like this that I can't put myself 100% on one side or the other.  There just isn't accurate enough data to take a stance on how serious it is right now.  I'm leaning more towards opening things up and seeing what happens.

Thousands and thousands of people are dying without ever getting tested.  Because of how woefully inept the government has been in supplying them.  If people die at home or in ICU without ever getting tested, the doctor lists the probable cause of death. They are very familiar with how Covid works and what effects it has on humans. They aren't just blindfolded and throwing a dart. Bu the way, this is how flu deaths have always worked. This isn't something new with covid

[Hardcore troubadour 15,519]

2 minutes ago, The Observer said:

Thousands and thousands of people are dying without ever getting tested.  Because of how woefully inept the government has been in supplying them.  If people die at home or in ICU without ever getting tested, the doctor lists the probable cause of death. They are very familiar with how Covid works and what effects it has on humans. They aren't just blindfolded and throwing a dart. Bu the way, this is how flu deaths have always worked. This isn't something new with covid

People in ICU’s aren’t getting tested? 

[The Observer 641]

PROGRAMMING NOTE:  Fauci is testifying on Capital Hill (remotely).  He will be under oath. He will have to tell the truth. And not the Don't-make-Trump-mad truth.  The actual truth.

Get a good look at him. He may be fired tomorrow. Donald is not a fan of the truth. Especially when it destroys his entire safe-to-open scam. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,369]

Cool we have a new narrative

brought to you by the guy who thinks Russia got Trump elected still

[Hawkeye21 2,406]

3 minutes ago, The Observer said:

Thousands and thousands of people are dying without ever getting tested.  Because of how woefully inept the government has been in supplying them.  If people die at home or in ICU without ever getting tested, the doctor lists the probable cause of death. They are very familiar with how Covid works and what effects it has on humans. They aren't just blindfolded and throwing a dart. Bu the way, this is how flu deaths have always worked. This isn't something new with covid

People are going to get it and people are going to die no matter what we do.  It's time to gradually open things back up but with precautions.  Everyone still needs to take it serious and be cautious.  Wash hands often, cover our mouths when we cough or sneeze, wear a mask if needed, stay home when you don't feel well, no large gatherings, keep distance from people more often, limit physical contact, use hand sanitizer often and just use common sense.

[Leeson 54]

15 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I don't think there is enough oversight.  It looks to me that every state and every county does things differently.  How can we have accurate data unless everyone is on the same page?

Bingo. Even if the plan isn't on the federal level, the states should have protocol to record things. I'd also wonder if blood samples were saved from people that died and were counted as Covid deaths. And vise versa. We could test at a later time to help set up protocols in the future.

[Hawkeye21 2,406]

5 minutes ago, Leeson said:

Bingo. Even if the plan isn't on the federal level, the states should have protocol to record things. I'd also wonder if blood samples were saved from people that died and were counted as Covid deaths. And vise versa. We could test at a later time to help set up protocols in the future.

I think the whole thing is a mess and hope that it leads to better preparation in the future.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,519]

46 minutes ago, The Observer said:

PROGRAMMING NOTE:  Fauci is testifying on Capital Hill (remotely).  He will be under oath. He will have to tell the truth. And not the Don't-make-Trump-mad truth.  The actual truth.

Get a good look at him. He may be fired tomorrow. Donald is not a fan of the truth. Especially when it destroys his entire safe-to-open scam. 

No pre-conceived notions here. Looks like as usual, Newbiebis going to wait to get the facts before commenting, in the unbiased, coherent fashion he’s known for. 

[The Observer 641]

8 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

No pre-conceived notions here. Looks like as usual, Newbiebis going to wait to get the facts before commenting, in the unbiased, coherent fashion he’s known for. 

:Watching and eating popcorn:

[Bert 1,128]

3 minutes ago, The Observer said:

:Watching and eating popcorn:

At least this is being handled much better than the, if you like your doctor and your insurance you can keep it and the BS that bartenders and waiters need this insurance and almost none of them have signed up. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,519]

6 minutes ago, The Observer said:

:Watching and eating popcorn:

Frothing at the mouth like a Shonuff in heat. 

[The Observer 641]

1 minute ago, Bert said:

At least this is being handled much better than the, if you like your doctor and your insurance you can keep it and the BS that bartenders and waiters need this insurance and almost none of them have signed up. 

I'd tell you start a thread about it, but there are probably already a dozen. 

[Hawkeye21 2,406]

20 minutes ago, Bert said:

At least this is being handled much better than the, if you like your doctor and your insurance you can keep it and the BS that bartenders and waiters need this insurance and almost none of them have signed up. 

Drink!  Or did I hit BINGO with that comment.

[KSB2424 3,148]

On 5/10/2020 at 11:51 AM, KSB2424 said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-deaths-suicides-drugs-alcohol-pandemic-75000/

Opening back up isn't just so people can get a haircut and nobody wants anyone to die.  However all decisions have consequences.  

Also,

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52382303

Quote

Delays in diagnosing and treating people with cancer could lead to more years of lost life than with Covid-19, according to a leading cancer expert.

Suicide is up.  Depression is up.  Domestic Violence is up.  Alcohol and Drug abuse is up.  People missing diagnose for cancer is probably up. The economy is tanking.  Unemployment at an all time low.

All of these are negative consequences that affect thousands if not millions of people.  That HAS to be factored in when making decisions about when and how to re-open.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,519]

10 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Also,

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52382303

Suicide is up.  Depression is up.  Domestic Violence is up.  Alcohol and Drug abuse is up.  People missing diagnose for cancer is probably up. The economy is tanking.  Unemployment at an all time low.

All of these are negative consequences that affect thousands if not millions of people.  That HAS to be factored in when making decisions about when and how to re-open.

 But pointing towards the (dubious) chinavirus deaths without accounting for the others as a result of the shutdown  is so much easier.They can just hang the covid number on Trump for the idiots.  And we all know if Trump was advocating shelter in place for the foreseeable future the left would be harping on the other deaths. They can’t lose.  

[supermike80 1,943]

10 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Also,

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52382303

Suicide is up.  Depression is up.  Domestic Violence is up.  Alcohol and Drug abuse is up.  People missing diagnose for cancer is probably up. The economy is tanking.  Unemployment at an all time low.

All of these are negative consequences that affect thousands if not millions of people.  That HAS to be factored in when making decisions about when and how to re-open.

Not in Michigan it aint.  

Keep them needing handouts......raise taxes...to those that don't need the handouts.  Keep feeding free stuff....The threaten everyone that those will be pulled back if you vote republican.

Boom.   Simple. 

[bandrus1 413]

13 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Also,

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52382303

Suicide is up.  Depression is up.  Domestic Violence is up.  Alcohol and Drug abuse is up.  People missing diagnose for cancer is probably up. The economy is tanking.  Unemployment at an all time low.

All of these are negative consequences that affect thousands if not millions of people.  That HAS to be factored in when making decisions about when and how to re-open.

do you have a quick link to Jan-april suicide statistics

[The Observer 641]

Just now, bandrus1 said:

do you have a quick link to Jan-april suicide statistics

I have a feeling it's around 82,000

[Hardcore troubadour 15,519]

Just now, The Observer said:

I have a feeling it's around 82,000

To wit. A nice easy number with no nuance wrapped up for idiots. Can’t lose. 

[nobody 2,703]

2 hours ago, Leeson said:

Fine. Change 'who would you blame" to what was the cause?

The cause of death would be covid-19. 

[drobeski 3,061]

Rand is great.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,369]

can I get a rundown, maybe the MSNBC version

Trump is purposely killing minorities?

[The Observer 641]

11 minutes ago, drobeski said:

Rand is great.

Fauci was great. He said he's never felt or claimed to be the end all. He simply looks at scientific data and gives the best information based on that data.  Like he's done since 1984.  Rand just sat there with a puss on his face because Fauci is unflappable and refuses to play politics. 

[Leeson 54]

16 minutes ago, The Observer said:

Fauci was great. He said he's never felt or claimed to be the end all. He simply looks at scientific data and gives the best information based on that data.  Like he's done since 1984.  Rand just sat there with a puss on his face because Fauci is unflappable and refuses to play politics. 

Yeah, I watched this live. Fauci went on to state that he is not a financial person and his purpose was to give the scientific information. He's not the person that tells others what to do, he simply gives his opinion based on facts and let's others do as they see fit.

I suspect the GOP may be looking for another scapegoat if they can't pin this all on China.