Coronavirus - Doomsday

[vuduchile 1,945]

How realistic is this meat shortage they’re all talking about now?  
 

Even Fox is scrolling messages about a the potential of  a worldwide hunger pandemic.  
 

Likely?  Not likely? Just more fear mongering?  

[MTSkiBum 1,623]

Global death toll may be 60% higher than officially reported according to the below article.

https://www.ft.com/content/6bd88b7d-3386-4543-b2e9-0d5c6fac846c

 

 

[MTSkiBum 1,623]

19 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

How realistic is this meat shortage they’re all talking about now?  
 

Even Fox is scrolling messages about a the potential of  a worldwide hunger pandemic.  
 

Likely?  Not likely? Just more fear mongering?  

Facts:

Tyson took out full page ads in newspapers to advertise that they were going to have food shortages.

 

My opinion:

This is mostly not media driven but is producer driven. There is still time to avert a catastrophe, which is why I believe Tyson is advertising this. We need the national guard to step up ASAP and start processing meat. If nothing is done there could be food shortages due to supply chain issues.

 

 

[wiffleball 4,790]

Well, whatever dip in domestic meat production, we can always fill with imports from Chin-

 

Aww crap.

[tanatastic 2,062]

So glad to see Bill Gates is apparently a licensed medical expert on bioengineering vaccines. Must be the civilian equivalent eh? 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,519]

33 minutes ago, tanatastic said:

So glad to see Bill Gates is apparently a licensed medical expert on bioengineering vaccines. Must be the civilian equivalent eh? 

I’ve said it before. We have the worst super rich ruling class in history. Useless. And I don’t care what bootlickers say, if Bill Gates and Steve Jobs had never existed I would still have this super duper phone in my hands. 

[wiffleball 4,790]

1 hour ago, tanatastic said:

So glad to see Bill Gates is apparently a licensed medical expert on bioengineering vaccines. Must be the civilian equivalent eh? 

At least he's not musing about mainlining Clorox. 

The reason guys like Gates are Bazillionaires is they listen to the experts. 

The reason Trump has been BK more times than  MC Hammer is  - he doesn't. 

will

You'd have to be in flat out denial of reality if you watched Gates TED Talk years ago vs. Trump's "Sunshine and Clorox skit and thought differently. 

[bandrus1 413]

you cant tell me this isnt funny

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/leader-of-north-carolina-protests-against-stay-at-home-has-coronavirus/ar-BB13hSx3?li=BBnb7Kz&fbclid=IwAR2L3hjGZP2_ISkHzC46gUm4g_uK9xKzly4imcgYv1lbV_fOqqZiTxqYLsc

[bandrus1 413]

13 hours ago, vuduchile said:

How realistic is this meat shortage they’re all talking about now?  
 

Even Fox is scrolling messages about a the potential of  a worldwide hunger pandemic.  
 

Likely?  Not likely? Just more fear mongering?  

This is 100% a meat industry scare tactic looking for govt $$$

 

We pay farmers to grow corn just so we can burn it in our cars because we have no place to put it

[fandandy 3,313]

1 hour ago, bandrus1 said:

This is 100% a meat industry scare tactic looking for govt $$$

 

We pay farmers to grow corn just so we can burn it in our cars because we have no place to put it

Are you suggesting we ride pigs to work?  

[KSB2424 3,148]

19 hours ago, tanatastic said:

At this point I want Fauci gagged. All of his reports are trying to push back any return to normalcy in the next year or two. 

I do not agree with this but understand the sentiment.   The doctors are specialists in their profession but they have tunnel vision (as they should).  

What should happen is economists and doctors of infections disease work in tandem. 

Somehow we went from "flattening the curve" to every single life matters and we can't come out of our caves until a vaccine is here.  It's nuts.

[Strike 5,629]

Just now, KSB2424 said:

Somehow we went from "flattening the curve" to every single life matters and we can't come out of our caves until a vaccine is here.  It's nuts.

This.  They've moved the goalposts bigly.  They're also ignoring all the people who are going to die BECAUSE of the stay at home orders.  You have to look at the totality of the data and make decisions based upon the data.   YouTube deleted the following video from ABC News about two urgent care doctors who are recommending lifting the stay at home orders:

https://www.turnto23.com/news/coronavirus/accelerated-urgent-care-doctors-recommend-lifting-shelter-in-place-order

Why would they do that?  It's from a MSM source from credible, reputable people in the middle of this thing. 

[tanatastic 2,062]

18 minutes ago, Strike said:

This.  They've moved the goalposts bigly.  They're also ignoring all the people who are going to die BECAUSE of the stay at home orders.  You have to look at the totality of the data and make decisions based upon the data.   YouTube deleted the following video from ABC News about two urgent care doctors who are recommending lifting the stay at home orders:

https://www.turnto23.com/news/coronavirus/accelerated-urgent-care-doctors-recommend-lifting-shelter-in-place-order

Why would they do that?  It's from a MSM source from credible, reputable people in the middle of this thing. 

Amazon and big pharma (remember to buy Nugenix, Frank Thomas feels like a new man!) won’t allow that stuff, they will ensure this lockdown stays in place. 

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

This was an interesting article in the WSJ which outlined various simultaneous methods to attack the virus and its impact.

https://www.foxnews.com/science/coronavirus-battle-scientists-have-teamed-up-with-billionaires-for-covid-19-manhattan-project-report

[edjr 6,612]

Look how PROUD charlie faker is that people lost jobs and CAREERS

 

[edjr 6,612]

2 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

I do not agree with this but understand the sentiment.   The doctors are specialists in their profession but they have tunnel vision (as they should).  

What should happen is economists and doctors of infections disease work in tandem. 

Somehow we went from "flattening the curve" to every single life matters and we can't come out of our caves until a vaccine is here.  It's nuts.

I fully expect the USA to close until a cure for cancer is found. EVERY LIFE MATTERS!

[edjr 6,612]

Almost half – 46% in 2017 – of all people who die from cancer are 70 or older. Another 41 percent are between 50 and 69 years old – so that 87% of all cancer victims are older than 50 years.

 

WHY DO WE HATE PEOPLE? WHY DO WE NOT SHUT THE WORLD DOWN UNTIL A CURE IS FOUND!?!?! WHY WHY WHY!!

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

1 minute ago, edjr said:

Almost half – 46% in 2017 – of all people who die from cancer are 70 or older. Another 41 percent are between 50 and 69 years old – so that 87% of all cancer victims are older than 50 years.

 

WHY DO WE HATE PEOPLE? WHY DO WE NOT SHUT THE WORLD DOWN UNTIL A CURE IS FOUND!?!?! WHY WHY WHY!!

Ed - I know that you are really frustrated, so I will take it easy on you.  Cancer and heart disease (because I know you are going there too) are not contagious.  Staying away from each other will not impact those diseases in any way, shape or form.  Seriously, grow up.  You have a kid and, if you are acting this nuts in front of him, I am sure that he will surely be needing getting a lot of therapy in the future.  

[Gladiators 1,998]

Ed for POTUS 2024

[DonS 3,292]

1 hour ago, edjr said:

I fully expect the USA to close until a cure for cancer is found. EVERY LIFE MATTERS!

So you're voting for Biden then?  He's got that cancer cure just waiting until he becomes President!!!! 

[Strike 5,629]

10 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Ed - I know that you are really frustrated, so I will take it easy on you.  Cancer and heart disease (because I know you are going there too) are not contagious.  Staying away from each other will not impact those diseases in any way, shape or form.  Seriously, grow up.  You have a kid and, if you are acting this nuts in front of him, I am sure that he will surely be needing getting a lot of therapy in the future.  

And?  We don't shut down the world for other contagious diseases.  The mortality rate of this is a fraction of what was initially thought.  The purpose of isolating everyone was to "flatten the curve" and it was based upon those early statistics which have turned out to be extremely overblown.  At some point we have to measure risk versus reward based upon UPDATED information. 

[edjr 6,612]

20 minutes ago, Gladiators said:

Ed for POTUS 2024

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

6 minutes ago, Strike said:

And?  We don't shut down the world for other contagious diseases.  The mortality rate of this is a fraction of what was initially thought.  The purpose of isolating everyone was to "flatten the curve" and it was based upon those early statistics which have turned out to be extremely overblown.  At some point we have to measure risk versus reward based upon UPDATED information. 

First off, the mortality rate of this is higher than the other infectious diseases and it is more contagious than the others.  

"At some point" is the key to the discussion.  There are some places that can start to open based on guidelines provided by the Federal Government.  It is not a matter of staying shut down until we have a vaccine.  It is a matter of staying with the current state in cases like MA where the disease is still at its height and has not fallen like other areas.  Is it really that hard to understand?  Do you think that we just say, "fock it, let's just open up like it was before and hope for the best!"?  That would be silly. 

[edjr 6,612]

8 minutes ago, Strike said:

And?  We don't shut down the world for other contagious diseases.  The mortality rate of this is a fraction of what was initially thought.  The purpose of isolating everyone was to "flatten the curve" and it was based upon those early statistics which have turned out to be extremely overblown.  At some point we have to measure risk versus reward based upon UPDATED information. 

Yup. A few thousand, 10 thousand, even 100 thousand old people dying is not worth putting us through another month of this. get the fock out of here

[edjr 6,612]

Just now, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

First off, the mortality rate of this is higher than the other infectious diseases and it is more contagious than the others.  

"At some point" is the key to the discussion.  There are some places that can start to open based on guidelines provided by the Federal Government.  It is not a matter of staying shut down until we have a vaccine.  It is a matter of staying with the current state in cases like MA where the disease is still at its height and has not fallen like other areas.  Is it really that hard to understand?  Do you think that we just say, "fock it, let's just open up like it was before and hope for the best!"?  That would be silly. 

omparison with other viruses

For comparison, the case fatality rate with seasonal flu in the United States is less than 0.1% (1 death per every 1,000 cases).

Mortality rate for SARS was 10%, and for MERS 34%.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Just now, edjr said:

omparison with other viruses

For comparison, the case fatality rate with seasonal flu in the United States is less than 0.1% (1 death per every 1,000 cases).

Mortality rate for SARS was 10%, and for MERS 34%.

 

Hmmm.  Even the CDC themselves say mortality rate for the flu is only 2 people per 100,000 (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/flu.htm), so I don't know where your quote comes from.

MERS and SARS were contained, so their possibility of affecting the US population was very low.  Not sure if you noticed, but COVID is here and it has killed over 50,000 people.  You answered my question in that you don't care if another 100k die.  If we have another 100k die in a short period of time, then all hell will break loose.  If it happens over the next 3 years, then it is manageable.  We aren't there yet.  

[Strike 5,629]

5 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

First off, the mortality rate of this is higher than the other infectious diseases and it is more contagious than the others.  

"At some point" is the key to the discussion.  There are some places that can start to open based on guidelines provided by the Federal Government.  It is not a matter of staying shut down until we have a vaccine.  It is a matter of staying with the current state in cases like MA where the disease is still at its height and has not fallen like other areas.  Is it really that hard to understand?  Do you think that we just say, "fock it, let's just open up like it was before and hope for the best!"?  That would be silly. 

Of course not "like before."  But yes we can reopen much of our economy, right now.  We need to continue to try to isolate people at risk, so older people and people with compromised immune systems.  Young people?  Let them have at it, if they choose.  Middle aged people.  Slightly more at risk but again their choice.  For certain categories of our society this thing is just not much of a risk.  Those people should be able to make their own choices, as should businesses.  Really, anyone should be able to make their own choices.  If you are worried about it stay home.  Let the others kill each other off.  We're doing more to destroy our constitutional rights with this thing than anything I've seen in my lifetime.

When did we change the reasoning from "flatten the curve" to "can't let anyone take any risk at all?"

[Hardcore troubadour 15,519]

Places are starting to open up. You can’t think it would happen all at once.  Calm the fock down. 

[Strike 5,629]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

Places are starting to open up. You can’t think it would happen all at once.  Calm the fock down. 

Not where I live.  The state announced they were relaxing the stay at home order but my f'ing county has decided to extend it through next Friday.  So, no, nothing has changed and when it does it's not going to be significant.  This is focking ridiculous.  No one is looking at the new data.  All of this is based upon Italy and NY.

[edjr 6,612]

11 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Hmmm.  Even the CDC themselves say mortality rate for the flu is only 2 people per 100,000 (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/flu.htm), so I don't know where your quote comes from.

MERS and SARS were contained, so their possibility of affecting the US population was very low.  Not sure if you noticed, but COVID is here and it has killed over 50,000 people.  You answered my question in that you don't care if another 100k die.  If we have another 100k die in a short period of time, then all hell will break loose.  If it happens over the next 3 years, then it is manageable.  We aren't there yet.  

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

8 minutes ago, Strike said:

Of course not "like before."  But yes we can reopen much of our economy, right now.  We need to continue to try to isolate people at risk, so older people and people with compromised immune systems.  Young people?  Let them have at it, if they choose.  Middle aged people.  Slightly more at risk but again their choice.  For certain categories of our society this thing is just not much of a risk.  Those people should be able to make their own choices, as should businesses.  Really, anyone should be able to make their own choices.  If you are worried about it stay home.  Let the others kill each other off.  We're doing more to destroy our constitutional rights with this thing than anything I've seen in my lifetime.

When did we change the reasoning from "flatten the curve" to "can't let anyone take any risk at all?"

We haven't.  When did "flatten the curve" turn into "get to the top of the curve and open everything up".

Not sure if you say Governor Baker of MA in Ed's complaint, but he indicated that right now, more than 40% of our beds overall and in ICU are taken up by people in the age group of 0-59, so it is not just the old people who are being affected.  

I also love the "Really, anyone should be able to make their own choices".  Do you remember the spring breakers in mid-to-late March?  Yeah, that went well.   

So let me ask you this one - for states like Georgia who are just throwing open the doors.  If you run a movie theater and you don't think it is safe to do that right now, what do you think happens to your business?  Don't ask for a loan because you chose not to stay closed even though it makes no sense to open right now with no guidance.  If those workers aren't safe in going back to work, don't you dare claim unemployment because Kemp opened those doors and it was your choice.  

Follow the plan laid out by the Federal government, which also includes testing that we still don't have a good handle on yet, for some reason.  

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

3 minutes ago, edjr said:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/

Oh, I love them.  That data is from the beginning of March and most of it was crap.  Go to the actual CDC site and you will see that the numbers are not 1 in 1,000 for the flu.  Or you can just wing it and get all upset.  

[Hardcore troubadour 15,519]

8 minutes ago, Strike said:

Not where I live.  The state announced they were relaxing the stay at home order but my f'ing county has decided to extend it through next Friday.  So, no, nothing has changed and when it does it's not going to be significant.  This is focking ridiculous.  No one is looking at the new data.  All of this is based upon Italy and NY.

Of course it’s based on worst case scenario, for urban areas. We saw what happened and want it prevented.  But there has been no hot spots in rural areas, so they should be allowed to move forward. See how it goes. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

16 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Hmmm.  Even the CDC themselves say mortality rate for the flu is only 2 people per 100,000 (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/flu.htm), so I don't know where your quote comes from.

MERS and SARS were contained, so their possibility of affecting the US population was very low.  Not sure if you noticed, but COVID is here and it has killed over 50,000 people.  You answered my question in that you don't care if another 100k die.  If we have another 100k die in a short period of time, then all hell will break loose.  If it happens over the next 3 years, then it is manageable.  We aren't there yet.  

We shoukd seriously lower the speed limit in this country to 25mph. So many lives will be saved yearly.

[edjr 6,612]

1 minute ago, Utilit99 said:

We shoukd seriously lower the speed limit in this country to 25mph. So many lives will be saved yearly.

25? fock that. No cars at all. too dangerous. Walk

[Strike 5,629]

1 minute ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

We haven't.  When did "flatten the curve" turn into "get to the top of the curve and open everything up".

Not sure if you say Governor Baker of MA in Ed's complaint, but he indicated that right now, more than 40% of our beds overall and in ICU are taken up by people in the age group of 0-59, so it is not just the old people who are being affected.  

I also love the "Really, anyone should be able to make their own choices".  Do you remember the spring breakers in mid-to-late March?  Yeah, that went well.   

So let me ask you this one - for states like Georgia who are just throwing open the doors.  If you run a movie theater and you don't think it is safe to do that right now, what do you think happens to your business?  Don't ask for a loan because you chose not to stay closed even though it makes no sense to open right now with no guidance.  If those workers aren't safe in going back to work, don't you dare claim unemployment because Kemp opened those doors and it was your choice.  

Follow the plan laid out by the Federal government, which also includes testing that we still don't have a good handle on yet, for some reason.  

I'm sorry I'm just going to address one aspect of your post, because you mischaracterized what I've said.  Where specifically did I say that only old people are affected?  Here's a quote from one of my posts:

Quote

We need to continue to try to isolate people at risk, so older people and people with compromised immune systems. 

Do you have the stats on other health conditions for the people 0-59 you referenced?  I bet not.  Because they're not releasing them in general.  The reports I've seen are that it is an EXTREMELY high percentage of people who are either old or already at risk that are being hospitalized and/or dying.  If that's the case there is no reason we can't allow the rest of society to carry on with their lives while focusing our containment/isolation efforts on the at risk.  A very small percentage of the perfectly healthy demographic will be impacted but that's the case for every disease out there. 

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

2 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

We shoukd seriously lower the speed limit in this country to 25mph. So many lives will be saved yearly.

This is the same crappy arguments, just a different topic.  When you don't have a good answer to why we can't meet the Federal guidelines, let's just throw out some random argument that is not pertinent.

[edjr 6,612]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

I'm sorry I'm just going to address one aspect of your post, because you mischaracterized what I've said.  Where specifically did I say that only old people are affected?  Here's a quote from one of my posts:

Do you have the stats on other health conditions for the people 0-59 you referenced?  I bet not.  Because they're not releasing them in general.  The reports I've seen are that it is an EXTREMELY high percentage of people who are either old or already at risk that are being hospitalized and/or dying.  If that's the case there is no reason we can't allow the rest of society to carry on with their lives while focusing our containment/isolation efforts on the at risk.  A very small percentage of the perfectly healthy demographic will be impacted but that's the case for every disease out there. 

BOOM!

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

I'm sorry I'm just going to address one aspect of your post, because you mischaracterized what I've said.  Where specifically did I say that only old people are affected?  Here's a quote from one of my posts:

Do you have the stats on other health conditions for the people 0-59 you referenced?  I bet not.  Because they're not releasing them in general.  The reports I've seen are that it is an EXTREMELY high percentage of people who are either old or already at risk that are being hospitalized and/or dying.  If that's the case there is no reason we can't allow the rest of society to carry on with their lives while focusing our containment/isolation efforts on the at risk.  A very small percentage of the perfectly healthy demographic will be impacted but that's the case for every disease out there. 

Who are the people that are healthy?  Is it anyone without any underlying conditions - hypertension (everyone or just the really bad ones?), obesity (how fat are we talking?), etc.  I just want to understand who is left to continue on with things.  If we have healthcare workers and first responders with these conditions, what are we doing with them?  

Just trying to figure out what your plan is before I can even fathom a response.  

[Strike 5,629]

2 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Who are the people that are healthy?  Is it anyone without any underlying conditions - hypertension (everyone or just the really bad ones?), obesity (how fat are we talking?), etc.  I just want to understand who is left to continue on with things.  If we have healthcare workers and first responders with these conditions, what are we doing with them?  

Just trying to figure out what your plan is before I can even fathom a response.  

There is no one plan.  Each community has to develop their own.  As HT noted, very rural communities may not have significant cases of COVID19 and should be able to open up as little or as much as they want.  I understand why NYC might be a lot more cautious despite the fact that their own Mayor is ignoring all the safety measures he put in place.  Where I live is being overly cautious IMO, and that's where most of my ire is directed.  I'm also very concerned about the civil liberties we're giving up over this, and that isn't being discussed enough. Again, IMO.  Lastly, we're not taking in to consideration the people who are or will die by us NOT opening things up, and that number will not be insignificant.  But we won't know those numbers until after the fact.  There are a lot of moving pieces and variables with this, but in general it is my opinion that we've gone way overboard with our restrictions and time line for removing them.  I've said this since the beginning of this crisis and I stick by that.