Coronavirus - Doomsday

[jerryskids 6,871]

4 minutes ago, Leeson said:

Some of you guys have a hard time following a conversation. It's all one side and that's it. No original thought involved. 

If old people and people with medical conditions wore masks and practiced social distancing during flu season, would deaths go down? Is that something that may happen as a result of this pandemic?

I almost feel bad asking this, but is English your first language?  Because I specifically addressed this in my last post, which you responded to. 

Tl;dr answer:  Yes.  Yes.

[Frozenbeernuts 2,270]

On 5/14/2020 at 8:06 PM, Intense Observer said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-14/economists-see-georgia-s-reopening-as-bellwether-for-nation?srnd=premium

Georgia Governor Brian Kemp’s move to allow businesses to reopen almost three weeks ago, widely ridiculed by public-health officials, has so far not resulted in a surge of hospitalizations or deaths. That’s caught the attention of economists.

 

 

Some Wall Street economists say a continued decline in serious illnesses suggests Georgia’s reopening may encourage other states to ease restrictions and lead to an eventual resumption in economic activity in the U.S.

“Georgia is a bellwether mainly because the reopening has been so aggressive,” said Stephen Stanley, chief economist at Amherst Pierpont Securities LLC, who cited in a research note Wednesday an almost 20% drop in Georgia’s Covid-19 patients in the past week or so.

“The other aggressive states, like Florida and Texas, are still opening up more slowly,” Stanley said in an interview. “So if Georgia is successful then, in theory, no one is going too fast -- there should be a strong presumption that reopenings everywhere else should be successful.”

Kemp lifted a state order on April 24, allowing nail salons, hairdressers, bowling alleys and gyms to reopen so long as they followed state protocols. Restaurants and theaters were given the go-ahead three days later.

 

Pretty interesting read, and surprisingly unbiased reporting from Bloomberg

They need to open the gyms in IL. I need something. Anything. 

[Leeson 54]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I almost feel bad asking this, but is English your first language?  Because I specifically addressed this in my last post, which you responded to. 

Tl;dr answer:  Yes.  Yes.

Sorry. But, you're not the only person responding in this thread. 

[MDC 7,526]

4 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Y'all don't get it.  You should only live a free life if there is a 0.00% chance of dying.  

 I haven’t seen anyone make this argument, here or anywhere else.

[Frozenbeernuts 2,270]

3 hours ago, Strike said:

Not one person here has said we shouldn't have done anything to slow the spread Covid-19.  So, this post starts off with a false premise.  It might mean something on some other site but here no one has suggested that.  EVER.

Baker Boy says hold my beer. Big guy too

[Leeson 54]

6 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Oh the irony.

If ShoNuff and GFIAFP had a baby its name would be............Leeson.  

Don't know who that is. But my Dad is Lee and my Mom is Lucy. They did have a baby. (five in fact)

[Hardcore troubadour 15,519]

5 minutes ago, Leeson said:

Don't know who that is. But my Dad is Lee and my Mom is Lucy. They did have a baby. (five in fact)

Lucy? I know her. We used to call her “juicy Lucy”. How’s she doing? 

[jerryskids 6,871]

6 minutes ago, Leeson said:

Sorry. But, you're not the only person responding in this thread. 

Well, I did, and the answer is yes and yes, for anyone who can generate a coherent thought.  What is your point?

[Leeson 54]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Lucy? I know her. We used to call her “juicy Lucy”. How’s she doing? 

Great. She told me to say high to Hardcore Troubadour. 

[KSB2424 3,148]

10 minutes ago, MDC said:

 I haven’t seen anyone make this argument, here or anywhere else.

You know what you are right.  Instead of 0.00% I should have said 0.14% chance, which is the true morality rate of dying from  Covid-19.  

Which is double the common flu, yes, but still.......lets go crazy!@#! 

[Leeson 54]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

Well, I did, and the answer is yes and yes, for anyone who can generate a coherent thought.  What is your point?

I didn't know you spoke for everyone on the board. 

Does everyone else know that?

[Leeson 54]

1 minute ago, KSB2424 said:

You know what you are right.  Instead of 0.00% I should have said 0.14% chance, which is the true morality rate of catching Covid-19.  

Which is double the common flu, yes, but still.......lets go crazy!@#! 

It's even less if you snort Hydroxychloriquine and shoot Clorox into your veins.

[jerryskids 6,871]

Just now, Leeson said:

I didn't know you spoke for everyone on the board. 

Does everyone else know that?

Do you need a response from everyone on the bored?  This being a chat site, typically when someone responds to your questions, you respond in kind.  If you are used to a site where every member needs to respond, you are at the wrong place.  HTH. 

[Strike 5,625]

1 hour ago, Leeson said:

Not sure if other people see something different, but I don't see people doing much to combat seasonal flu. A few people may wear a mask. But, you don't see anybody social distance. It seems like everyone believes that the flu shot makes them invincible. With it only being 50% effective, maybe they will do more to protect themselves in the future and the deaths will decrease. It also makes me wonder if the Covid vaccine will be 51% effective and considered a success when compared to the seasonal flu vaccine.

As to the bolded, I'm not sure if it's you trying to convince me of this. But, I've never said we shouldn't move forward, cautiously. 

Do you believe people should have freedom of choice, even if it's potentially to their own detriment, as long as it doesn't affect you?  A simple yes or no will suffice.

[Leeson 54]

3 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Do you need a response from everyone on the bored?  This being a chat site, typically when someone responds to your questions, you respond in kind.  If you are used to a site where every member needs to respond, you are at the wrong place.  HTH. 

Does that mean only one person responds? (you?)

Because I've been called an idiot by a lot of different posters. Not just one. So, your theory doesn't hold water.

[Leeson 54]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

Do you believe people should have freedom of choice, even if it's potentially to their own detriment, as long as it doesn't affect you?  A simple yes or no will suffice.

That's not a simple question that can be answered with a yes or no.

Abortion - NO

Suicide - YES

Bang your Mom - YES

Most other things - YES

Rarely are there choices that don't effect someone else. 

[Strike 5,625]

Just now, Leeson said:

That's not a simple question that can be answered with a yes or no.

Abortion - NO

Suicide - YES

Bang your Mom - YES

Most other things - YES

Rarely are there choices that don't effect someone else. 

The choice to wear a mask if you're elderly is one, absent a pandemic.  So your point is moot if you actually believe what you just posted.  I assume you know that when I said an action a person takes "doesn't affect you", I really meant others in society.   Given that, abortion would be off the list since it affects an unborn baby. 

[MDC 7,526]

4 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

You know what you are right.  Instead of 0.00% I should have said 0.14% chance, which is the true morality rate of dying from  Covid-19.  

Which is double the common flu, yes, but still.......lets go crazy!@#! 

I’m pretty confident in saying we don’t know what the true mortality rate of Covid-19 is and probably won’t for a while. 

The CDC says the flu kills about 10-15k people per year and we’re over 80k Covid deaths over a 3-4 month window, so it seems likely that Covid is many times more deadly. 

Again, I’ve never seen anyone say we should shelter in place until Covid cases are zero or close to the flu / cold. 

[Leeson 54]

3 minutes ago, Strike said:

The choice to wear a mask if you're elderly is one, absent a pandemic.  So your point is moot if you actually believe what you just posted.  I assume you know that when I said an action a person takes "doesn't affect you", I really meant others in society.   Given that, abortion would be off the list since it affects an unborn baby. 

Only if you fall into the camp that the unborn baby is "someone else". 

The other side of your question. Should people do something the interferes with their freedom in the smallest amount, in order to not have a negative effect on someone else. Wearing a mask is pretty simple thing to do. Yet, people think it's the greatest infringement of their rights.

[Strike 5,625]

37 minutes ago, Leeson said:

Only if you fall into the camp that the unborn baby is "someone else". 

The other side of your question. Should people do something the interferes with their freedom in the smallest amount, in order to not have a negative effect on someone else. Wearing a mask is pretty simple thing to do. Yet, people think it's the greatest infringement of their rights.

Are you talking about now or after the.pandemic?  The last few posts we're about after the pandemic. 

[KSB2424 3,148]

59 minutes ago, MDC said:

I’m pretty confident in saying we don’t know what the true mortality rate of Covid-19 is and probably won’t for a while. 

The CDC says the flu kills about 10-15k people per year and we’re over 80k Covid deaths over a 3-4 month window, so it seems likely that Covid is many times more deadly. 

Again, I’ve never seen anyone say we shouI'm ld shelter in place until Covid cases are zero or close to the flu / cold. 

I'm not a mathematician or statistician by trade , however after more and more data comes in the mortality rate keeps going down.  It started at 5%, two months ago and as more testing, studies and data has come it has steadily gone down and down and down.....over 10 fold now.   Of course I look at that as a good thing and not blinded by TDS.    

[MDC 7,526]

4 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

I'm not a mathematician or statistician by trade , however after more and more data comes in the mortality rate keeps going down.  It started at 5%, two months ago and as more testing, studies and data has come it has steadily gone down and down and down.....over 10 fold now.   Of course I look at that as a good thing and not blinded by TDS.    

All I’m saying is the same CDC that says around 10-15,000 people die of the flu in the US by year say more than 80,000 have died of Covid-19 basically in 3 months. I’m not a mathematician or statistician either, but it seems likely we cross 200,000 Covid deaths this calendar year, which would make it many times more deadly than the flu. That’s not a political thing it’s just reality.

[Leeson 54]

17 minutes ago, Strike said:

Are you talking about now or after the.pandemic?  The last few posts we're about after the pandemic. 

When it comes to wearing masks I'm talking about now. All the people that think they don't have to wear a mask because they think it infringes their freedom. 

Once we have a vaccine, the same way we have one for seasonal flu, then those that are at risk should be the ones to decide if they want to wear a mask. The combination of the two should give them an acceptable level of protection.

[nobody 2,702]

The mask doesn't protect the wearer.  The mask protects the people around the wearer.  Especially because no one seems to know the basics of wearing a mask.  For instance, touching it worth your hands after touching stuff means the mask is contaminated.  Pulling it on and off by the front of the mask means it's contaminated.  Put on the mask without washing your hands first?  Contaminated.

The only thing these masks do is keep people's spittle to themselves.  That doesn't help the person wearing it.

[Strike 5,625]

39 minutes ago, Leeson said:

When it comes to wearing masks I'm talking about now. All the people that think they don't have to wear a mask because they think it infringes their freedom. 

Once we have a vaccine, the same way we have one for seasonal flu, then those that are at risk should be the ones to decide if they want to wear a mask. The combination of the two should give them an acceptable level of protection.

Yeah, should have known better than to engage with you.  The tangent I was discussing with you was predicated on this specific point:

Quote

Not sure if other people see something different, but I don't see people doing much to combat seasonal flu.

Now, as usual, you're moving the goalposts.  If you want to discuss one or the other say so.  I'm not going to move on to something else before I know where you stand on the point we were discussing.  Next time don't ask why other people besides one tries to answer your questions.

[Strike 5,625]

BTW, armed robberies are on a significant rise because, well everyone wearing masks makes it easy for an armed robber to hide his identity since it's the new normal:

https://abc6onyourside.com/news/coronavirus/coronavirus-masks-a-boon-for-crooks-who-hide-their-faces

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/05/14/coronavirus-santa-ana-robberies-increase-suspects-face-covering-orders/

So quit focking acting like all these measures to combat Covid-19 don't have a downside.  Just about every one does.

[Strike 5,625]

38 minutes ago, nobody said:

The mask doesn't protect the wearer.  The mask protects the people around the wearer.  Especially because no one seems to know the basics of wearing a mask.  For instance, touching it worth your hands after touching stuff means the mask is contaminated.  Pulling it on and off by the front of the mask means it's contaminated.  Put on the mask without washing your hands first?  Contaminated.

The only thing these masks do is keep people's spittle to themselves.  That doesn't help the person wearing it.

If I've been quarantined for two months am I a risk to anyone else if I don't wear a mask?

[Reality 3,121]

1 hour ago, MDC said:

All I’m saying is the same CDC that says around 10-15,000 people die of the flu in the US by year say more than 80,000 have died of Covid-19 basically in 3 months. I’m not a mathematician or statistician either, but it seems likely we cross 200,000 Covid deaths this calendar year, which would make it many times more deadly than the flu. That’s not a political thing it’s just reality.

Those flu deaths per year are not even close to accurate. Also, flu seasons aren't for a full year, they are about a 4 month period.

[Reality 3,121]

Flu deaths per year are 12k - 60k, 12k was an outlier by the way.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

[jerryskids 6,871]

2 hours ago, Leeson said:

Does that mean only one person responds? (you?)

Because I've been called an idiot by a lot of different posters. Not just one. So, your theory doesn't hold water.

What theory?  Yes and yes.  Respond please, tyvm.  

[The Observer 641]

7 hours ago, Reality said:

Flu deaths per year are 12k - 60k, 12k was an outlier by the way.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

Correct. 60k being the worst year. We lost that many just in April from covid-19.  With the whole country on lockdown. Most businesses closed. No sports. No concerts.  Anyone still comparing covid-19 to the flu is most definitely in the country's bottom ten percentile in terms of intelligence. 

[Leeson 54]

8 hours ago, jerryskids said:

What theory?  Yes and yes.  Respond please, tyvm.  

That only one person can respond to a post. And that person is you. 

[MDC 7,526]

8 hours ago, Reality said:

Those flu deaths per year are not even close to accurate. Also, flu seasons aren't for a full year, they are about a 4 month period.

Here is a good article on the difference between actual flu deaths vs. estimated flu deaths according to the CDC.

The number of people killed by influenza isn't reported the same way COVID-19 deaths are — which can cause confusion when comparing the numbers.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates the number of flu infections in the US via its influenza surveillance system, which gathers flu data from state and local partners, then projects nationwide totals using infectious-disease models. Between the 2013-14 and 2018-19 seasons, the number of counted annual influenza deaths ranged from 3,448 to 15,620, and the CDC's official estimates for the entire US ranged from 23,000 to 61,000.

The estimations are meant to account for flu deaths that occurred outside hospitals and other circumstances in which a dead person never received an influenza test. This data can lag by up to two years because it takes CDC researchers a while to collect flu data and look through death certificates. 

"Conversely, COVID-19 fatalities are at present being counted and reported directly, not estimated," del Rio and Faust wrote.

That means that comparing flu-death estimates with confirmed coronavirus deaths likely discounts the scale of the latter's true toll.

HTH

[edjr 6,611]

9 hours ago, Strike said:

BTW, armed robberies are on a significant rise because, well everyone wearing masks makes it easy for an armed robber to hide his identity since it's the new normal:

https://abc6onyourside.com/news/coronavirus/coronavirus-masks-a-boon-for-crooks-who-hide-their-faces

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020/05/14/coronavirus-santa-ana-robberies-increase-suspects-face-covering-orders/

So quit focking acting like all these measures to combat Covid-19 don't have a downside.  Just about every one does.

This was a matter of time. Nitwits

[Alias Detective 1,414]

11 hours ago, Strike said:

Do you believe people should have freedom of choice, even if it's potentially to their own detriment, as long as it doesn't affect you?  A simple yes or no will suffice.

Like abortion..

[Alias Detective 1,414]

11 hours ago, Strike said:

The choice to wear a mask if you're elderly is one, absent a pandemic.  So your point is moot if you actually believe what you just posted.  I assume you know that when I said an action a person takes "doesn't affect you", I really meant others in society.   Given that, abortion would be off the list since it affects an unborn baby. 

Move the goal posts to suit your narrative.  Any more restrictions on your yes no question?

[jerryskids 6,871]

1 hour ago, MDC said:

Here is a good article on the difference between actual flu deaths vs. estimated flu deaths according to the CDC.

 

 

It's interesting to know that the flu death numbers are estimates, although in hindsight I suppose that makes sense.  Thanks for posting. 

That being said...

Quote

"Conversely, COVID-19 fatalities are at present being counted and reported directly, not estimated," del Rio and Faust wrote.

That means that comparing flu-death estimates with confirmed coronavirus deaths likely discounts the scale of the latter's true toll.

I don't understand this conclusion.  It seems perhaps that they are saying we should add a similar estimation factor to the wuhan flu?  But that doesn't make sense; are there really people sitting at home with flu-like symptoms who are not getting tested ASAP? 

[Strike 5,625]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/california-sheriff-wont-enforce-lockdown-order-hands-full-trying-to-rearrest-accused-criminals

[nobody 2,702]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

It's interesting to know that the flu death numbers are estimates, although in hindsight I suppose that makes sense.  Thanks for posting. 

That being said...

I don't understand this conclusion.  It seems perhaps that they are saying we should add a similar estimation factor to the wuhan flu?  But that doesn't make sense; are there really people sitting at home with flu-like symptoms who are not getting tested ASAP? 

Maybe they think the flu estimates are high since the covid 19 models were so terrible?

[Reality 3,121]

3 hours ago, MDC said:

Here is a good article on the difference between actual flu deaths vs. estimated flu deaths according to the CDC.

I'm not comparing covid to the normal flu. We've used the estimates for years, we'll keep using them.

This is akin to the current death rate for Covid, anybody with 2 brain cells to rub together understands that number is bloated because of the vast majority of people who have covid never have symptoms, therefore, aren't ever tested.