Coronavirus - Doomsday

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I believe that is a false choice.  First, the data on masks is marginal at best, and certainly for kids who aren't exactly wearing N95s with tight seals.  Second, there is virtually no concern about kids cases. 

I choose kids in school, no masks, no distancing, no vaccines.  If your kid is morbidly obese and/or has significant comorbidities we'll make accommodations.  Otherwise we are significantly hurting the social development of an entire generation of kids.

Data on masks is pretty clear in that it helps slow community spread. The fact that people want to still debate that 20 months into this is absurd- and it's a large reason why we continue to have spread and variants and all that nonsense. Yes N95's would work the best but cloth masks are effective enough.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536

https://www.idsociety.org/covid-19-real-time-learning-network/infection-prevention/masks-and-face-coverings-for-the-public/

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210907/masks-limit-covid-spread-study

 

As to your second point- if people are worried about the social and emotional toll being at home has on kids than yes there should be concern about kids cases both from COVID and from effects of COVID related closings. Plus schools will still have quarantine procedures and close contact procedures (for the most part) which pushes kids out of schools sometimes for long periods of time.

No vaccines? Why get any vaccines for kids? Vaccines have been a mandatory part of student's going to school for generations. The children's immunization initiative was passed in 1977 which mandated 7 different vaccines to begin school. And mandatory vaccines started for the sole purpose of preventing "epidemic spread of diseases." But this COVID vaccine is different apparently for reasons. 

[TheNewGirl 1,498]

12 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I believe that is a false choice.  First, the data on masks is marginal at best, and certainly for kids who aren't exactly wearing N95s with tight seals.  Second, there is virtually no concern about kids cases. 

I choose kids in school, no masks, no distancing, no vaccines.  If your kid is morbidly obese and/or has significant comorbidities we'll make accommodations.  Otherwise we are significantly hurting the social development of an entire generation of kids.

 I have to agree with Jerry. 

Kids and masks have also proven to be very difficult to enforce, but also create distractions which hinder learning. 

Masks and how *much* they protect from actual Covid is questionable in my opinion as well. There are plenty of studies prior to Covid showing that anything other than N95 provides very little protection. And N95s are both hard to come by (at least they were). Not to mention that they are tough to breathe in, I can see kids just NOT going for that. 

[KSB2424 3,148]

Those vaccines have been around for decades with many years of study and time based results. 

How old is COVID vaccines?  Have they even blew out their first candle?  Even the CDC said it will be upwards of 50 years before they know the full effects. 

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

 

 

17 minutes ago, TheNewGirl said:

 I have to agree with Jerry. 

Kids and masks have also proven to be very difficult to enforce, but also create distractions which hinder learning. 

Masks and how *much* they protect from actual Covid is questionable in my opinion as well. There are plenty of studies prior to Covid showing that anything other than N95 provides very little protection. And N95s are both hard to come by (at least they were). Not to mention that they are tough to breathe in, I can see kids just NOT going for that. 

I posted plenty of studies that discuss masks and their effectiveness. The one study even mentions that the reason there is not a lot of data about effectiveness before COVID is because there was nothing to really study. 

Masks don't interfere with learning to the degree people outside of schools seem to think they do. And I'd say 97% of kids are good about the masks. There are a few kids I have to mention about pulling their mask up but it is not often, and it is not a distraction. 

I will agree though that- the idea people had of "Kids need to be wearing N95" is insane. Cloth masks work well enough to slow spread. We can just wear them

16 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Those vaccines have been around for decades with many years of study and time based results. 

How old is COVID vaccines?  Have they even blew out their first candle?  Even the CDC said it will be upwards of 50 years before they know the full effects. 

COVID-19 has some genetic material that was first seen in the SARS virus in 2003 and MERS in 2012. Vaccines were begun as far back as 2003. SARS was never fully tested because it disappeared before we got to the point of testing the vaccine. The MERS vaccine was clinically tested in 2019. mRNA style vaccines have bee developed and tested for things like rabies, ZIKA, and CMV. So they knew how to create mRNA vaccines, they had at least done some development and had a clinical trial against viruses with similar genetic material and then when they were able to isolate genetic code for the specific strain that causes COVID-19 they were able to go directly after formula for the vaccine.

COVID-19 was identified in December of 2019 and the first vaccines were ready to go in December of 2020. SO while on the surface it looks like a year for the vaccine from identification to market- in reality it is something that has been in development in one form or another for 17 years to that point. 

And either way- do you think they knew all the effects of the MMR vaccines when they were developed? And the process of science moves faster today than it did 100 years ago. 

[jerryskids 6,827]

 

21 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Data on masks is pretty clear in that it helps slow community spread. The fact that people want to still debate that 20 months into this is absurd- and it's a large reason why we continue to have spread and variants and all that nonsense. Yes N95's would work the best but cloth masks are effective enough.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536

https://www.idsociety.org/covid-19-real-time-learning-network/infection-prevention/masks-and-face-coverings-for-the-public/

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210907/masks-limit-covid-spread-study

 

As to your second point- if people are worried about the social and emotional toll being at home has on kids than yes there should be concern about kids cases both from COVID and from effects of COVID related closings. Plus schools will still have quarantine procedures and close contact procedures (for the most part) which pushes kids out of schools sometimes for long periods of time.

No vaccines? Why get any vaccines for kids? Vaccines have been a mandatory part of student's going to school for generations. The children's immunization initiative was passed in 1977 which mandated 7 different vaccines to begin school. And mandatory vaccines started for the sole purpose of preventing "epidemic spread of diseases." But this COVID vaccine is different apparently for reasons. 

I don't want to go too far down the mask effectiveness rathole as it is irrelevant to the larger point that Covid is just not that dangerous to young children.  But I will say that, if you were around in the spring of 2020, you'd have seen me as one of the biggest proponents of masks despite the advice of Fauci.  @Cdub100 can attest to the debates we had on it.  A lot of it involved common sense, things like the blocking of aerosol droplets mentioned in your first (Nature) link.  I didn't read the rest of your links except the last one, a very large study in Bangladesh which concluded:

Quote

It included more than 600 unions — or local governmental districts in Bangladesh — and roughly 340,000 people.

Half of the districts were given cloth or surgical face masks along with continual reminders to wear them properly; the other half were tracked with no intervention. Blood tests of people who developed symptoms during the study verified their infections.

Compared to villages that didn't mask, those where masks of any type were worn had about 9% fewer symptomatic cases of COVID-19. The finding was statistically significant and was unlikely to have occurred by chance alone.

9% improvement with adults being continually reminded to wear them properly, seems about right.

Regarding your second point, I'm confused and not following.  I need to consider it some more.  I'll leave it until later so as to not overly confuse the discussion on masks.  

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

 

I don't want to go too far down the mask effectiveness rathole as it is irrelevant to the larger point that Covid is just not that dangerous to young children.  But I will say that, if you were around in the spring of 2020, you'd have seen me as one of the biggest proponents of masks despite the advice of Fauci.  @Cdub100 can attest to the debates we had on it.  A lot of it involved common sense, things like the blocking of aerosol droplets mentioned in your first (Nature) link.  I didn't read the rest of your links except the last one, a very large study in Bangladesh which concluded:

9% improvement with adults being continually reminded to wear them properly, seems about right.

Regarding your second point, I'm confused and not following.  I need to consider it some more.  I'll leave it until later so as to not overly confuse the discussion on masks.  

Can I help clarify anything on the second point so we don't have to spend time misrepresenting what each other is saying?

[jerryskids 6,827]

1 minute ago, Sean Mooney said:

Can I help clarify anything on the second point so we don't have to spend time misrepresenting what each other is saying?

You said:

Quote

As to your second point- if people are worried about the social and emotional toll being at home has on kids than yes there should be concern about kids cases both from COVID and from effects of COVID related closings. Plus schools will still have quarantine procedures and close contact procedures (for the most part) which pushes kids out of schools sometimes for long periods of time.

What is "the social and emotional toll being at home"?  Like, a kid gets sick and has to spend a few weeks at home?  That's not a toll.  Or do you mean because of school closures?  If so, I'm back to:  why close the schools?  Because some kids got Covid?  It's just not that dangerous to kids, less so than the flu last I heard.  But I'm open to new data if you have it.

[MTSkiBum 1,620]

20 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

But I will say that, if you were around in the spring of 2020, you'd have seen me as one of the biggest proponents of masks despite the advice of Fauci

I was a huge pro mask proponent, but how come everywhere that had mask mandates still had the same spike in cases as areas that went maskless.

 

Outside of an n95 worn by competently trained personal I doubt their efficiency now.

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,504]

If the teachers union wants masks, masks will be worn. It’s that simple. 

[Cdub100 3,929]

Farting spreads covid more than anything else 

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

12 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

You said:

What is "the social and emotional toll being at home"?  Like, a kid gets sick and has to spend a few weeks at home?  That's not a toll.  Or do you mean because of school closures?  If so, I'm back to:  why close the schools?  Because some kids got Covid?  It's just not that dangerous to kids, less so than the flu last I heard.  But I'm open to new data if you have it.

 

Schools operate differently because they are more at the mercy of policymakers (both left and right) and are a public hot spot so they need to work harder to prevent community spread both for kids but also for the parents where kids live. Lots of kids live with elderly relatives, or immunocompromised adults.

But for kids in particular schools will close if numbers get too high- at some point it becomes impossible to close contact or quarantine and stuff gets shut down. Schools also mostly did away with live Zoom classes or learning because we want kids in person. So what happens now is- a kid is home for COVID- and instead of live help they are just asynchronously doing work at home for 10 days. That isn't conducive to quality learning. 

My issue is more with the people who were screaming about mental health in kids back in May of 2020 and August of 2020 and all that and now saying "Well screw it." 

[NorthernVike 2,087]

Rachel Marsden: A French government agency’s stunning Covid stats destroy the official propaganda (msn.com)

 

Hmmmmm.......

[TimmySmith 2,782]

2 minutes ago, NorthernVike said:

Rachel Marsden: A French government agency’s stunning Covid stats destroy the official propaganda (msn.com)

 

Hmmmmm.......

100% true here also. botcuck and the lying machine made it sound overflowing.  Remember when Trump sent the ship to NY after they made the claim of no beds.  Then suddenly the crisis ended. 

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

7 minutes ago, NorthernVike said:

Rachel Marsden: A French government agency’s stunning Covid stats destroy the official propaganda (msn.com)

 

Hmmmmm.......

 

There is so much in this article that is just not understanding context of anything. It is literally just her looking at percentages and not accounting for what those numbers actually mean and the context of those numbers combined with everything else. 

[NorthernVike 2,087]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

 

There is so much in this article that is just not understanding context of anything. It is literally just her looking at percentages and not accounting for what those numbers actually mean and the context of those numbers combined with everything else. 

[TimmySmith 2,782]

2 minutes ago, NorthernVike said:

Orwell would be proud of his statement. 

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

3 minutes ago, NorthernVike said:

It leaves so much out of context. A middle school student could see the lack of context to what she is saying. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,360]

21 minutes ago, NorthernVike said:

Rachel Marsden: A French government agency’s stunning Covid stats destroy the official propaganda (msn.com)

 

Hmmmmm.......

fock yes I would

[jerryskids 6,827]

7 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

It leaves so much out of context. A middle school student could see the lack of context to what she is saying. 

Well, I'm not in middle school. Also, je parle francais un peu but I don't read French fluidly. What context is "so much out"?  

Also, I've been 100% saying this for some time so I'm inclined to agree with her in general.

Quote

The last thing that governments seem to want people to do is to make decisions for themselves based on their own research and personal situation. If they had any respect for the basic rights and freedoms of their citizens, they’d publish and promote all data related to all possible individual circumstances, including acquired immunity, jab side effects, and allow people to make their own risk/benefit assessments. Who truly believes that they’re doing that now and not continually engaging in the kind of gate-keeping and message spinning that we’ve seen here in France over this hospital data?

Rather than transparency, our governments have been hell-bent on imposing a one-size-fits-all straitjacket on everyone and forcing them into compliance with a medical act that threatens their livelihood and may be more risky than beneficial.

Most importantly, that Rachel is mahogany wood -- I'd give her the best 30 seconds of my life.   

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

She is substituting perception of things and saying the facts don't bare them out but she has no idea how people perceive things as a whole. This is a piece written for a specific group of people that are going to latch onto it because they agree with it on a preconceived manner.

Plus the hospital days numbers are more alarming than she purports because of how she is choosing to focus on them. 

 

I mean almost 11,000 people were hospitalized for COVID in 2020 there. That is a significant number of people who would not normally be hospitalized in a given year. And her narrow focus on days in the hospital is kind of foolish too.

But I would agree though she is pretty hot. I just don't agree with people because they are hot though. 

[nobody 2,691]

Kids get polio vaccines, so why not get them COVID vaccines!!#@:#!:#L!

Because getting a crippling disease for life and getting COVID which has no effect on kids are the same thing.

Cost/benefit analysis, people.

[nobody 2,691]

2 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I mean almost 11,000 people were hospitalized for COVID in 2020 there. That is a significant number of people who would not normally be hospitalized in a given year. And her narrow focus on days in the hospital is kind of foolish too.

But I would agree though she is pretty hot. I just don't agree with people because they are hot though. 

 It's pretty obvious that the resources being used to keep 0.01% of the population from being hospitalized is a net negative on society.

[jerryskids 6,827]

3 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

She is substituting perception of things and saying the facts don't bare them out but she has no idea how people perceive things as a whole. This is a piece written for a specific group of people that are going to latch onto it because they agree with it on a preconceived manner.

Plus the hospital days numbers are more alarming than she purports because of how she is choosing to focus on them. 

 

I mean almost 11,000 people were hospitalized for COVID in 2020 there. That is a significant number of people who would not normally be hospitalized in a given year. And her narrow focus on days in the hospital is kind of foolish too.

But I would agree though she is pretty hot. I just don't agree with people because they are hot though. 

So her utter lack of context means that you don't agree with her perceptions about perceptions?  

Also, might it be possible that hospitals erred on the side of admitting and extending the stays of people who tested positive for Covid?

[Gladiators 1,995]

4 minutes ago, nobody said:

 It's pretty obvious that the resources being used to keep 0.01% of the population from being hospitalized is a net negative on society.

The fact that we're 20 months into this and people still have to be told this is absurd.

[nobody 2,691]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

So her utter lack of context means that you don't agree with her perceptions about perceptions?  

Also, might it be possible that hospitals erred on the side of admitting and extending the stays of people who tested positive for Covid?

Or the erred by sending too many people home that should've been hospitalized, but who cares.  The numbers are showing that hospitals are not overwhelmed.  

That was the job.  Keep basic functions like access to healthcare unimpeded.  Mission accomplished.  Somehow that goal turned into irradiate COVID or not let anyone die from COVID or not let anyone spread COVID.  Those are all stupid goals and not attainable, and trying to achieve them is a great way to waste resources.

This is why you need strong leaders.  Sometimes you have to let people die.  Sometimes you have to give an order that will get someone killed.  Trying to save everyone will only ensure everyone fails.  This is leading a nation 101.

[Cdub100 3,929]

Michigan just hit the highest covid hospitalizations ever.

WTF is the vaccine doing? Sh1t don't work.

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

29 minutes ago, nobody said:

Kids get polio vaccines, so why not get them COVID vaccines!!#@:#!:#L!

Because getting a crippling disease for life and getting COVID which has no effect on kids are the same thing.

Cost/benefit analysis, people.

Vaccines are a fundamental component of society and have been for a long time. Also, how do you know COVID has no effect on kids?

24 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

So her utter lack of context means that you don't agree with her perceptions about perceptions?  

Also, might it be possible that hospitals erred on the side of admitting and extending the stays of people who tested positive for Covid?

It means it calls into question what she is saying because of how she is presenting or misrepresenting things. 

[jerryskids 6,827]

3 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Vaccines are a fundamental component of society and have been for a long time. Also, how do you know COVID has no effect on kids?

It means it calls into question what she is saying because of how she is presenting or misrepresenting things. 

She is certainly presenting it as if the numbers are no big deal, apparently you disagree.  She is up front with the numbers though, both in the report and those provided by Covid alarmists in rebuttal.

And if you want to get into a war of presenting data with bias in general, and I get the MSM, I like my chances.

"Misrepresenting" seems a bit strong tho.

[nobody 2,691]

11 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Vaccines are a fundamental component of society and have been for a long time. Also, how do you know COVID has no effect on kids?

2 years worth of covid running though the population.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

43 minutes ago, Gladiators said:

The fact that we're 20 months into this and people still have to be told this is absurd.

2 people I know, didn't know what "Let's go Brandon" meant last week.  There is a lot of people who simply aren't paying attention to the world, or who get their news from mainstream media.  

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

26 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

She is certainly presenting it as if the numbers are no big deal, apparently you disagree.  She is up front with the numbers though, both in the report and those provided by Covid alarmists in rebuttal.

And if you want to get into a war of presenting data with bias in general, and I get the MSM, I like my chances.

"Misrepresenting" seems a bit strong tho.

All data in media is filtered through lenses. This isn't news. And again- her numbers are being presented in an ill informed manner. 

21 minutes ago, nobody said:

2 years worth of covid running though the population.

You have no idea what effects kids are dealing with internally from the virus. 

[nobody 2,691]

4 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

You have no idea what effects kids are dealing with internally from the virus. 

So I should double that with effects from a vaccine that doesn't prevent them from getting it which I also have no idea what effect kids are dealing with internally?  

[KSB2424 3,148]

1 hour ago, nobody said:

Kids get polio vaccines, so why not get them COVID vaccines!!#@:#!:#L!

Because getting a crippling disease for life and getting COVID which has no effect on kids are the same thing.

Cost/benefit analysis, people.

Not to mention immunizations like the polio vaccine are one shot and done.  Not this flu shot every six months B.S.  

[edjr 6,608]

46 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

2 people I know, didn't know what "Let's go Brandon" meant last week.  There is a lot of people who simply aren't paying attention to the world, or who get their news from mainstream media.  

I had no idea what it meant. I don't watch the news or follow social media. FFT is where I get my news  

[Casual Observer 597]

19 hours ago, TimHauck said:

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/covid-19-testing/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel={"colId":"Daily Tests Per Million Population","sort":"asc"}

even that Fox News article mentions this at the very end

Correct, cases have relevance in their relation to deaths as there is generally a correlation.  However, that correlation has changed greatly since the introduction of vaccines, and has been proven to be less correlated with highly vaccinated areas than lesser vaccinated areas.  So, that combined with different states testing at different rates makes it a little silly to compare cases across states, especially when not also mentioning deaths (which the Fox News article did not).

What do you mean there is generally a correlation?  Every person that has died from Covid has had a case of Covid.  A person who has been vaccinated and dies from Covid both had a case of Covid and death from Covid, notwithstanding their vaccination status.  Your post makes no sense, you haven't explained why you contradicted yourself (again) within the span of a page and reading your word vomit only underscores what an obfuscating chimp you are.

[Casual Observer 597]

38 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

All data in media is filtered through lenses. This isn't news. And again- her numbers are being presented in an ill informed manner. 

You have no idea what effects kids are dealing with internally from the virus. 

You guys can never know and you're always wrong.  Only Sean Mooney knows and he's the only one that can properly interpret things.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

15 minutes ago, Casual Observer said:

You guys can never know and you're always wrong.  Only Sean Mooney knows and he's the only one that can properly interpret things.

He knows that you know nothing about kids and covid, and that is enough to make you wrong. But the federal government doesn't know anything either and they are right. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,504]

2 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

 

Schools operate differently because they are more at the mercy of policymakers (both left and right) and are a public hot spot so they need to work harder to prevent community spread both for kids but also for the parents where kids live. Lots of kids live with elderly relatives, or immunocompromised adults.

But for kids in particular schools will close if numbers get too high- at some point it becomes impossible to close contact or quarantine and stuff gets shut down. Schools also mostly did away with live Zoom classes or learning because we want kids in person. So what happens now is- a kid is home for COVID- and instead of live help they are just asynchronously doing work at home for 10 days. That isn't conducive to quality learning. 

My issue is more with the people who were screaming about mental health in kids back in May of 2020 and August of 2020 and all that and now saying "Well screw it." 

“Both left and right”.  Lol as of it’s even. I wonder where the teachers union political donations and endorsements go? You love kidding yourself. 

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

1 hour ago, nobody said:

So I should double that with effects from a vaccine that doesn't prevent them from getting it which I also have no idea what effect kids are dealing with internally?  

There is more known about the effects of vaccines over time than the effects of the virus. 

Either way- vaccines have been a huge part of society for decades and were never an issue. They are now because people put more stock in "I heard a rumor" on social media

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

1 hour ago, Casual Observer said:

You guys can never know and you're always wrong.  Only Sean Mooney knows and he's the only one that can properly interpret things.

I've seen some of the people here. Yes- I am the only one who can properly interpret things after seeing how they process things. But hey- you all are free to do your own research and assess validity of news items legitimately. 

But yeah- it's easier to just stay in your bubble like so many here.