Your thoughts... the Civil War

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

In the privilege thread, I posted an interaction between myself and some younger family and friends.  They didn't know Abraham Lincoln was a Republican.  Actually thought he was a Democrat.  So it just sparked into my head this thought...

 

What if Lincoln let the South secede?

 

Really, would there have even been a Civil War?  Lincoln was killed because he ended slavery.  Had he allowed the South to secede, we wouldn't have had the war, and he most likely would never have been assassinated.  Andrew Johnson finished out the almost 4 remaining years.  By then though, the South would be their own country... right?  How much longer would slavery have lasted?  Seriously, I think it could have gone many more decades.  Would it be the United States of America and the Southern Democrat States of America?  Interesting.  Any thoughts anyone?

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,585]

4 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

In the privilege thread, I posted an interaction between myself and some younger family and friends.  They didn't know Abraham Lincoln was a Republican.  Actually thought he was a Democrat.  So it just sparked into my head this thought...

 

What if Lincoln let the South secede?

 

Really, would there have even been a Civil War?  Lincoln was killed because he ended slavery.  Had he allowed the South to secede, we wouldn't have had the war, and he most likely would never have been assassinated.  Andrew Johnson finished out the almost 4 remaining years.  By then though, the South would be their own country... right?  How much longer would slavery have lasted?  Seriously, I think it could have gone many more decades.  Would it be the United States of America and the Southern Democrat States of America?  Interesting.  Any thoughts anyone?

they should do a man in high castle on this

 

[fandandy 3,311]

Imagine had we never brought them over here, to begin with, nor allowed women the right to vote.  This place would be paradise.  

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 hour ago, fandandy said:

Imagine had we never brought them over here, to begin with, nor allowed women the right to vote.  This place would be paradise.  

We?    I would never have wanted to bring black people to this country.

Too bad the black people in Africa were so willing to enslave their own and sell them off. Fvck. What a disgrace.

[tanatastic 2,061]

Invasive species come over on boats, proliferate and ruin the ecosystem. 

[BiPolarBear 476]

4 hours ago, fandandy said:

Imagine had we never brought them over here, to begin with, nor allowed women the right to vote.  This place would be paradise.  

This reminds me of something that a Native American, was supposed to have said. 

All the men did was hunt, fish, and fock. The women did all the work. Only a White person thinks they could improve on that. 

 

 

[Utilit99 4,099]

25 minutes ago, BiPolarBear said:

This reminds me of something that a Native American, was supposed to have said. 

All the men did was hunt, fish, and fock. The women did all the work. Only a White person thinks they could improve on that. 

 

 

There is no such thing as "native Ameicans". Also, Indians were nomadic brutal vicious human beings.

[BiPolarBear 476]

2 hours ago, Utilit99 said:

There is no such thing as "native Ameicans". Also, Indians were nomadic brutal vicious human beings.

If you mean that humans are not indigenous to the continent, I think everybody knows that. I am sure the European settlers to this country really impressed the Native Americans with their sensitivity and compassion. 

 

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 minute ago, BiPolarBear said:

 I am sure the European settlers to this country really impressed the Native Americans with their sensitivity and compassion. 

 

And I'm sure the same in the other direction. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

20 minutes ago, BiPolarBear said:

If you mean that humans are not indigenous to the continent, I think everybody knows that. I am sure the European settlers to this country really impressed the Native Americans with their sensitivity and compassion. 

 

Wait, are you pretending that the Native Americans never battled for land before the Europeans came here?

[BiPolarBear 476]

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Wait, are you pretending that the Native Americans never battled for land before the Europeans came here?

Huh? 

 

[JustinCharge 2,397]

Had Lincoln just let the South secede, slavery would have been abolished in the South in a few decades anyway because the world was moving away from it.  If the Confederacy kept using slaves, Europe would probably just stop doing business with them.  I doubt the CSA would have let it get to a point where there was a total trade embargo so they would have freed the slaves pretty quickly.  And since it would be the Confederacy making this decision on its own instead of getting forced into it, there probably would have been more acceptance and a major effort to educate and train them.  They probably would have been fully integrated into society by now.

Allowing the Confederacy to secede creates a new problem during World War 2 tho.  The US is fractured and cannot show a united front against Nazi Germany.  In fact, the Axis powers might actually be able to convince either the USA or CSA to join them.  If they get the CSA to join, then they prevent the USA from creating a front in Western Europe.  The UK falls pretty quickly and the Nazis can devote their entire attention towards the USSR.  The Nazis might very well end up defeating the USSR.  The CSA either defeats the USA or weakens the USA so much that it probably gets overrun by the Nazis later on.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

5 hours ago, Utilit99 said:

There is no such thing as "native Ameicans". Also, Indians were nomadic brutal vicious human beings.

The most impressive empire was probably the Incan Empire which existed around what is now Peru.  They were severely brutal rulers.  The concept of family did not matter to them.  The public was divided into work camps.  They made huts for them that functioned as prison cells.  People were assigned huts based on what sort of work they did.  The huts had no windows and armed guards made sure no-one escaped or even left their hut after curfew.  They worked their whole lives like this.  The ruling elite lived in a paradise of wealth and food and pleasure.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

3 hours ago, BiPolarBear said:

If you mean that humans are not indigenous to the continent, I think everybody knows that. I am sure the European settlers to this country really impressed the Native Americans with their sensitivity and compassion. 

 

We don't really have great records on what happened to the first european settlers.  Many colonies were built and supplied.  Resupply ships would return months later and the colony was found abandoned with everyone missing or dead.  No-one really knows what happened in those situations.  Often it is suspected that the settlers lacked discipline and knowledge to survive that long. 

That's why the first successful colonies in America were religious groups.  With everyone obeying the same strict moral code, it is vastly easier to enforce discipline and survive harsh winters or emergencies like lack of food.  Moral relativism leads to conflict which is incredibly dangerous when you are trying to found a colony in the wilderness filled with savage people.

[kutulu 1,548]

Ain't that fresh

[Baker Boy 1,485]

11 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

In the privilege thread, I posted an interaction between myself and some younger family and friends.  They didn't know Abraham Lincoln was a Republican.  Actually thought he was a Democrat.  So it just sparked into my head this thought...

 

What if Lincoln let the South secede?

 

Really, would there have even been a Civil War?  Lincoln was killed because he ended slavery.  Had he allowed the South to secede, we wouldn't have had the war, and he most likely would never have been assassinated.  Andrew Johnson finished out the almost 4 remaining years.  By then though, the South would be their own country... right?  How much longer would slavery have lasted?  Seriously, I think it could have gone many more decades.  Would it be the United States of America and the Southern Democrat States of America?  Interesting.  Any thoughts anyone?

Johnson was a Democratwho ran with Lincoln on the National Union ticket, coming to office as the Civil Warconcluded. He favored quick restoration of the seceded states to the Union without protection for the former slaves. This led to conflict with the Republican-dominated Congress, culminating in his impeachment by the House of Representatives in 1868. He was acquitted in the Senate by one vote.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Johnson

[tanatastic 2,061]

6 hours ago, BiPolarBear said:

This reminds me of something that a Native American, was supposed to have said. 

All the men did was hunt, fish, and fock. The women did all the work. Only a White person thinks they could improve on that. 

 

 

The price of progress is always paid in blood. It’s a necessity for society to move forward as a whole. Africa still has tribes of indigenous people living in the bush with no knowledge of the real world nor desire to live in it.

[RLLD 3,455]

11 hours ago, fandandy said:

Imagine had we never brought them over here, to begin with, nor allowed women the right to vote.  This place would be paradise.  

Would it be feasible to track the family lineage of the tiny fraction of people who actually were involved with the evil of slavery? And can we somehow include the decedents of the many african families that also participated and have THOSE family lines all take the hit so then maybe-just-maybe the whining can stop?

[Big Guy 1,400]

12 hours ago, fandandy said:

Imagine had we never brought them over here, to begin with, nor allowed women the right to vote.  This place would be paradise.  

Absolute Truth!

[fandandy 3,311]

29 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Would it be feasible to track the family lineage of the tiny fraction of people who actually were involved with the evil of slavery? And can we somehow include the decedents of the many african families that also participated and have THOSE family lines all take the hit so then maybe-just-maybe the whining can stop?

I completely agree.  I have thought this for years.  Certain southern families must have gotten rich off the backs of slaves.  Have them pay the reparations to the blacks and to the families of white soldiers who fought and died to free them.  Also, charge the northern blacks for destroying every city they eventually moved to.

 

[RLLD 3,455]

3 minutes ago, fandandy said:

I completely agree.  I have thought this for years.  Certain southern families must have gotten rich off the backs of slaves.  Have them pay the reparations to the blacks and to the families of white soldiers who fought and died to free them.  Also, charge the northern blacks for destroying every city they eventually moved to.

 

I think it affords the most sensible plan.

It was the Northern government, of which our current government is derived that freed the slaves, at considerable cost I might add.  

How about this, all those people who were set free by the north at the enormous expense and cost REPAY OUR GOVERNMENT for it?  If a current person can trace their lineage to a killed norther soldier....then they too should be compensated.....

[frank 2,145]

6 hours ago, kutulu said:

Ain't that fresh

Goddamit, I only opened this thread to say I don’t need your civil war.

 

[kutulu 1,548]

2 minutes ago, frank said:

Goddamit, I only opened this thread to say I don’t need your civil war.

 

What we’ve got here is failure to communicate. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

The funny part is, the blacks in the north fled the south. So if the south had won the north would be the racists. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,653]

6 hours ago, RLLD said:

Would it be feasible to track the family lineage of the tiny fraction of people who actually were involved with the evil of slavery? And can we somehow include the decedents of the many african families that also participated and have THOSE family lines all take the hit so then maybe-just-maybe the whining can stop?

Start with Anderson Cooper. 

[GobbleDog 816]

On 6/8/2020 at 11:49 AM, riversco said:

Had Lincoln just let the South secede, slavery would have been abolished in the South in a few decades anyway because the world was moving away from it. 

I doubt slavery would've even lasted another 10 years as it was becoming socially unpopular everywhere. 

Regardless, the South had every right to fight that war.  If the original 13 colonies were told "... once you join YOU CAN'T LEAVE" none of them would've joined. That wasn't the deal.  Abe Lincoln should've been hung as a war criminal.  Thank you Mr. Booth.

[TommyGavin 788]

So now we owe them 14 Trillion In reparations- fock them. Suck a d1ck

[iam90sbaby 2,125]

10 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

I doubt slavery would've even lasted another 10 years as it was becoming socially unpopular everywhere. 

Regardless, the South had every right to fight that war.  If the original 13 colonies were told "... once you join YOU CAN'T LEAVE" none of them would've joined. That wasn't the deal.  Abe Lincoln should've been hung as a war criminal.  Thank you Mr. Booth.

You're my favorite anti 2a guy

[Bill E. 666]

On 6/8/2020 at 1:09 PM, RLLD said:

Would it be feasible to track the family lineage of the tiny fraction of people who actually were involved with the evil of slavery? And can we somehow include the decedents of the many african families that also participated and have THOSE family lines all take the hit so then maybe-just-maybe the whining can stop?

My uncle's (My mother's sister's husband's) father was an immigrant and killed working at a construction site in the 1930's or 40's.  This made life hard for my uncle when he was growing up.  Maybe while we are at it we could find the descendants of his employer back then and make them give me some money. 

[Bill E. 666]

On 6/8/2020 at 11:49 AM, riversco said:

Had Lincoln just let the South secede, slavery would have been abolished in the South in a few decades anyway because the world was moving away from it.  If the Confederacy kept using slaves, Europe would probably just stop doing business with them.  I doubt the CSA would have let it get to a point where there was a total trade embargo so they would have freed the slaves pretty quickly.  And since it would be the Confederacy making this decision on its own instead of getting forced into it, there probably would have been more acceptance and a major effort to educate and train them.  They probably would have been fully integrated into society by now.

Allowing the Confederacy to secede creates a new problem during World War 2 tho.  The US is fractured and cannot show a united front against Nazi Germany.  In fact, the Axis powers might actually be able to convince either the USA or CSA to join them.  If they get the CSA to join, then they prevent the USA from creating a front in Western Europe.  The UK falls pretty quickly and the Nazis can devote their entire attention towards the USSR.  The Nazis might very well end up defeating the USSR.  The CSA either defeats the USA or weakens the USA so much that it probably gets overrun by the Nazis later on.

All interesting posts.  

[Utilit99 4,099]

29 minutes ago, Bill E. said:

My uncle's (My mother's sister's husband's) father was an immigrant and killed working at a construction site in the 1930's or 40's.  This made life hard for my uncle when he was growing up.  Maybe while we are at it we could find the descendants of his employer back then and make them give me some money. 

Yep. Open up the financial flood gates for descendants of those whose grand parents and great grandparents, etc. who died in a coal mine or of black lung, those who died from asbestos, smoking, car accidents, murder, killed on duty as a cop, acid rain, driving in a car, construction accident, Italian mafia hit, Irish mafia hit, black gang violence, hispanic gang violence, slipping on a wet floor, etc....

We can tax people 100% of their earnings and then just die off as a country and leave it for Mexico and Canada to fight over until China and Russia come running in.

[BiffTannen 651]

If she south would’ve won we’d have it made. I would probably run for president of the southern states. I’d put Hank Williams picture on $100 bills and own 1000 slaves.