Pimpadeaux 2,406 Posted June 26, 2023 6 hours ago, Ultra Max Power said: Wagner took a payday from the West and then quit before blood was shed. Gotta hand it to them. You got a non-crapass source for this conspiracy baloney? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ultra Max Power 214 Posted June 26, 2023 39 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said: You got a non-crapass source for this conspiracy baloney? Gonna go with common sense. What's the official western media bersion of the story now? Wagner did it to protest, but gave up immediately and received some concessions from Russia in the process? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pimpadeaux 2,406 Posted June 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Ultra Max Power said: Gonna go with common sense. What's the official western media bersion of the story now? Wagner did it to protest, but gave up immediately and received some concessions from Russia in the process? Oh brother, another MAGAturd spinning a baseless conspiracy theory without any facts. How do you know it wasn't T-pump who gave him the money so he could help out his butt buddy Putin. Common sense my ass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ultra Max Power 214 Posted June 27, 2023 7 hours ago, Pimpadeaux said: Oh brother, another MAGAturd spinning a baseless conspiracy theory without any facts. How do you know it wasn't T-pump who gave him the money so he could help out his butt buddy Putin. Common sense my ass. Can you at least admit the msm was jumping to conclusions all weekend. Reporting their own conspiracy theories as you like to put it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pimpadeaux 2,406 Posted June 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Ultra Max Power said: Can you at least admit the msm was jumping to conclusions all weekend. Reporting their own conspiracy theories as you like to put it. Nowhere in the media did I see the conspiracy theory you're trying to pull out of thin air and run with, and I didn't see anything in the media that I'd consider conspiracy theories, much less ones of their own that they were reporting. I saw reporting that Wagner and his soldiers were marching toward Moscow, Putin's reaction and then Wagner turning around after the Belarus leader brokered a deal. These are all facts. The only speculation I saw was so-called experts brought in to provide their take on whether this makes Putin look weak and what might happen next. Meanwhile, you're the one who started the thread about an MSM poll regarding Kamala Harris. You can't be all derogatory about the term MSM and then turn around and use it when it reports something that tickles your political pickle. That's just focking hypocritical, man! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ultra Max Power 214 Posted June 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Pimpadeaux said: Nowhere in the media did I see the conspiracy theory you're trying to pull out of thin air and run with, and I didn't see anything in the media that I'd consider conspiracy theories, much less ones of their own that they were reporting. I saw reporting that Wagner and his soldiers were marching toward Moscow, Putin's reaction and then Wagner turning around after the Belarus leader brokered a deal. These are all facts. The only speculation I saw was so-called experts brought in to provide their take on whether this makes Putin look weak and what might happen next. Meanwhile, you're the one who started the thread about an MSM poll regarding Kamala Harris. You can't be all derogatory about the term MSM and then turn around and use it when it reports something that tickles your political pickle. That's just focking hypocritical, man! The MSM is a compromised joke and when they point at how bad the Ds are, it's just really showing how far gone they are. Wish you could see that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GutterBoy 2,899 Posted June 27, 2023 11 hours ago, Pimpadeaux said: Oh brother, another MAGAturd spinning a baseless conspiracy theory without any facts. How do you know it wasn't T-pump who gave him the money so he could help out his butt buddy Putin. Common sense my ass. This is the same douche that thinks that the Nazis protesting pride over the weekend are federal officers. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,510 Posted June 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, GutterBoy said: This is the same douche that thinks that the Nazis protesting pride over the weekend are federal officers. I don’t know who they were but I don’t think they were Nazis. You do though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pimpadeaux 2,406 Posted June 27, 2023 27 minutes ago, Ultra Max Power said: The MSM is a compromised joke and when they point at how bad the Ds are, it's just really showing how far gone they are. Wish you could see that. You posted an MSM poll regarding Kamala Harris. You'll only accept MSM news with which you agree. That's just focking stupid. MSM! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pimpadeaux 2,406 Posted June 27, 2023 22 minutes ago, GutterBoy said: This is the same douche that thinks that the Nazis protesting pride over the weekend are federal officers. NAZIS! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustinCharge 2,397 Posted June 27, 2023 Counteroffensive update: At this point, the lines have been stagnant for the last few days. Overall, I think everyone agrees Russia gained more territory, but now it seems like ever since the Wagner revolt, the lines are frozen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GobbleDog 997 Posted June 27, 2023 36 minutes ago, JustinCharge said: Counteroffensive update: At this point, the lines have been stagnant for the last few days. Overall, I think everyone agrees Russia gained more territory, but now it seems like ever since the Wagner revolt, the lines are frozen. I've read reports of small towns here and there re-taken by Ukraine, but for the most part... you're right. Not much seems to be changing. I was expecting/hoping for a lot more by this point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
League Champion 1,911 Posted June 27, 2023 Bay Of Pigs 2.0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
League Champion 1,911 Posted June 27, 2023 17 hours ago, Pimpadeaux said: Oh brother, another MAGAturd spinning a baseless conspiracy theory without any facts. How do you know it wasn't T-pump who gave him the money so he could help out his butt buddy Putin. Common sense my ass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blue Horseshoe 348 Posted June 28, 2023 7 hours ago, JustinCharge said: Counteroffensive update: At this point, the lines have been stagnant for the last few days. Overall, I think everyone agrees Russia gained more territory, but now it seems like ever since the Wagner revolt, the lines are frozen. Area saturation using anti-personnel mines. Russians can deploy them with 82mm mortars. This counter offensive is not practical resource management. But to be fair to Zelensky, he doesn't know what will happen in the 2024 general election. Trump is more likely to cut a deal with Putin and attempt to force Ukraine to concede the southern part of the country, particularly Mariupol, to just end the war. He pushes now while he's still getting weapons and funding from NATO. Running an "elastic defense" is pretty much text book. Allow the enemy to charge forward, bleed them out, then attack their supply lines behind them. This was used to great effect against Russia in the early stages of the invasion. Many of the Tier 1 Russian units were massacred trying to blitz their way into the country early on. Practical consideration - Ukraine is the 2nd largest landmass in Europe. Zelensky says he wants to retake everything. That anything else except that is unacceptable. And no one can blame him. It would kill morale to face the reality of the situation - To end the war with some kind of treaty, Ukraine has to give up something. Probably in the south where the valuable natural resources around the Black Sea remain. Russian RZD are their domestic rail units, which has operational strength of about 8 brigades in real life. Not what's on paper and projections, but a practical day to day head count. These are not front line troops. They are well experienced auxiliaries. If you kill Putin's rail yards and main rail lines, then you force his troops onto roadways into Zelensky's kill box, these paths are open kill zones for the Ukrainians. This is where they have an advantage in that they know the terrain better. Most people have a practical misunderstanding of fundamental mechanized warfare. If you invade, it's going to cost you. If you are on the offensive, it's going to cost you. Calling the Russians failures on any level is very difficult assessment. You have an ENTIRE country built around killing them. The other issue is Ukrainian generals understand they are sending men into a grinder into minefields. So they aren't sending Tier 1, Tier 2 or even Tier 3 units. They are sending conscripts. This is tragic carnage, but also practical warfare. As sad as that becomes, not all soldiers are valued equally on the battlefield. RUT is the Russian University of Transportation. This is a practical training and feeder system into the overall close to million workers associated with RZD. Zelensky should hit it. Then he should use a dirty bomb in Mariupol. If you deny the critical port there to the Russians, that is a massive logistical bottleneck for them. It also wipes out the profit pathway for the wealthy Russian oligarchs who want the natural resources to the south. Without that incentive, they are more likely to just assassinate Putin and end the war. The entire option tree appears to show that Zelensky will lose the Mariupol region no matter what. If you refuse to concede the south, then irradiate it. Blame the Russians and Putin for it. The international daily media cycle will have no choice but to support Zelensky's claim here. They are too far invested in the war to try to spin another narrative. This quadruples the sanctions on Russia from an economic standpoint. The close to a million workers for RZD should be seen as a new target rich environment. If they are helping to load train cars full of soldiers, guns, ammo, fuel and ordinance into Ukraine, they are no longer civilians. Zelensky should just start killing them all. That might be abhorrent to some of you. Well Putin ordered mass strikes on civilian targets in Ukraine. You don't stop a madman with reason. You show him you have no limits and that you are more ruthless. You don't win wars by slogging inch by inch through minefields. You do it by ensuring Russians have no food. No fuel. No ammunition. No spare parts. No working vehicles. No mechanics. No doctors. No drivers. No engineers. No pilots. No one can shoot you if they have no bullets. There's a lesson here from Taiwan and the CCP. Xi Jinping knows Taiwan would gas their own country first before handing it over to China. Down to the last man, down to the last bullet, down to their very teeth. Also Taiwan will massacre civilians in China with chemical weapons in retaliation in the instance of an invasion. The organ harvesting of the Uighurs is a long ugly cautionary tale for the rest of the world. Taiwan could halve China's 1.4 billion population in three months. If I was Zelensky? I would. No treaty with Russia is going to last. They'll just invade again later. At some point in the future, they'll attack yet again. There are no good options here. If Putin wants genocide, then Zelensky should give it to him. Again, some of you will see that as abhorrent. And those that do are still under the fabrication that there are good options here. There are only repugnant choices and even more brutal unforgiveable ones. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GobbleDog 997 Posted June 28, 2023 38 minutes ago, Blue Horseshoe said: Zelensky should hit it. Then he should use a dirty bomb in Mariupol. Effective military strategy or not, that's a sure way to lose western support and the war. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,373 Posted June 28, 2023 MOSCOW (AP) — Russian President Vladimir Putin thanks nation for unity and Wagner fighters for avoiding “bloodshed” after revolt. (AP) -- As part of a deal to end the rebellion, Putin has presented Wagner fighters with three options: either join the Russian military, go to Belarus like Prigozhin, or return home. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 3,255 Posted June 28, 2023 Did the little pussay Vlad return to Moscow yet from his hiding hole? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nobody 2,691 Posted June 28, 2023 If the ukranians were able to destroy railways, wouldn't Russia just build more railways? It would be an inconvenience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Voltaire 5,317 Posted June 28, 2023 7 hours ago, nobody said: If the ukranians were able to destroy railways, wouldn't Russia just build more railways? It would be an inconvenience. It's exponentially more expensive and time consuming to build something than to blow it up. Also stationary targets are easiest to hit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 4,360 Posted June 28, 2023 dont worry, Putin is losing the war in Iraq Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pimpadeaux 2,406 Posted June 28, 2023 13 hours ago, GobbleDog said: Effective military strategy or not, that's a sure way to lose western support and the war. I still think Ukraine is engaged in probing and decoy maneuvers, with the real offensive yet to come. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GobbleDog 997 Posted June 28, 2023 9 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said: I still think Ukraine is engaged in probing and decoy maneuvers, with the real offensive yet to come. Agreed, they've clearly held back the big equipment for the throw-all-the-chips-in offensive. The fact that they still haven't found the right time/place to do it yet is a bit worrysome. Hard to know if everything is right on schedule, or if the Ukraine military is a bit flummoxed about when to go for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustinCharge 2,397 Posted June 28, 2023 Russia is developing a hyped advanced aerial drone that is built like a B2 and will use some sort of advanced AI to target and kill on its own without requiring control. It is said this will be launched in force in 2024 but who knows we may see it early. Or it may be a pile of junk that never works. Still, it gives insight into the future of warfare, even if this particular weapon is a bust. https://warriormaven.com/russia-ukraine/russia-flies-armed-stealthy-okhotnik-attack-drone-prototypes Russia Flies Armed, Stealthy Okhotnik Attack Drone Prototypes The Russian military is flying two prototype stealthy “hunter” drones expected to become operational by 2024 KRIS OSBORN, WARRIOR MAVEN - CENTER FOR MILITARY MODERNIZATION MAR 31, 2023 (Washington D.C.) The Russian military is flying two prototype stealthy “hunter” drones expected to become operational by 2024, a significant and potentially concerning development for the Pentagon. Okhotnik Drone The Okhotnik is not only stealthy but reported to be an armed strike drone as well, according to numerous reports including one from as far back as 2018 in Russia Beyond quoting Russian experts discussing the drone. “The Okhotnik’s arsenal includes air-to-surface missiles and an array of bombs (glide and operator-controlled) that will not be suspended from the wings, but hidden inside the body to reduce visibility on enemy radar,” Professor Vadim Kozyulin of the Russian Academy of Military Sciences told Russia Beyond. As discussed in the Russia Beyond essay, the Okhotnik appears to present significant threats as it is reported to operate with an internal weapons bay, stealth coatings and a B-2-esque blended wing-body horizontal, stealthy configuration. The ability to keep weapons inside the aircraft without hanging them underneath on pylons, means the drone can attack while operating in stealth mode. There may also be some small “hard points” on the drone to enable a beast-mode kind of heavier attack. The absence of protruding structures, shapes and sharp angles from underneath weapons means ground based air-defense radar will have much less to “bounce” its signal or “ping” off of to generate a rendering to ground sensors. Real questions about the drone also may pertain to the level of technological sophistication when it comes to its additional stealth characteristics, meaning what kind of thermal management or heat-reduction does the drone have? How effective are the stealth coatings? Perhaps most of all, is there an internally buried engine which may ensure the air temperature surrounding the drone is roughly equivalent to the drone itself to essentially “blind” thermal sensors. How is the exhaust managed? An equally pressing question introduced by the Russia Beyond essay is the development of AI-capabilities for the drone, something which would of course exponentially increase its ability to process sensor data, targeting information and the ability to network with both other unmanned and manned systems. Russia’s TASS news agency has already written several stories about how their military is essentially “copying” the successful US Air Force networking of the F-35, F-22 and Valkyrie drone with manned-unmanned teaming between the Okhotnik and Russia’s 5th-generation Su-57. This raises key questions about the extent to which Russia can accomplish a successful ability to replicate the US Air Force’s “loyal wingman” concept and operate a manned fighter jet in close coordination with an unmanned, stealthy drone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blue Horseshoe 348 Posted June 28, 2023 17 hours ago, GobbleDog said: Effective military strategy or not, that's a sure way to lose western support and the war. Point of no return. You are bringing up a fair point. But the media optics in the international daily media cycle will blame Putin for it. They'll say Putin ordered a dirty bomb to be used in Mariupol. Even if everyone knows in private that it was a false flag attack. The war in Ukraine is a cash cow for the entire Military Industrial Complex. Zelensky is the publicly recognized "symbol" of Ukraine's fight for freedom. It's too late, too far gone and too much real money and political capital spent to denounce him now. A large scale attack on Mariupol as such would publicly justify Zelensky to start hitting Russia deep in their own territory, which is where the rail yards and rail lines come into play. Western support is locked in, except if Trump becomes POTUS in 2024. But even still, the geopolitical dynamic by then might still force Trump's hand to stay funding the proxy war, even if he doesn't want to do it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blue Horseshoe 348 Posted June 28, 2023 14 hours ago, nobody said: If the ukranians were able to destroy railways, wouldn't Russia just build more railways? It would be an inconvenience. If you kill a conscript who has limited training, how hard is it to replace them? Tragically, their job is to soak up bullets and artillery fire so other more experienced and skilled soldiers can deploy to do something else more useful. If you kill the critical 40-45 thousand rail workers, engineers and critical personnel in Russia out of the nearly million in the practical RZD roster, how hard would it be to replace them? This is a practical organizational reality, not just one about war and logistics. In any community or organization or business or trade or field, it's usually a small number of key people who doing a majority of the heavy lifting ( i.e. the basic Pareto Principle) Sabotage and destroy some rail lines, then booby trap them. Use mines. Then boobytrap the mines themselves. You can replace a conscript for the basic infantry relatively quickly. But a guy with couple of decades of experience in rail yards? How hard is that to replace? You can even use off the shelf drones and repurpose them to drop mines and grenades. Ukraine is doing that right now against the Russians in the open field. Break the rail lines. Then kill all the people who repair them. Kill all the engineers. Kill all the skilled logistical people. Kill the critical core of how RZD operates. Russia can try to solve this problem by bolstering security. And how much manpower is needed to reinforce all the major rail lines in Russia? Every troop going there is not a soldier sent into Ukraine to kill more innocents. And the media optics? Simply say many of Putin's enemies, the friends and allies of those he's purged, are rising up against him to stop this "illegal war" with Ukraine. Pretty simple story, and given how the international daily media cycle works, not hard to spin that and make it the "new reality" from a perspective stand point. Put it this way, I'm not saying anything I suggest is simple. However it's a much more effective way to hurt Russia's military than sending some 17 year old Ukrainian kid, with two weeks of training, into a minefield. I take no pleasure in discussing the slaughter of civilians. Many might just be working class stiffs just trying to put food on the table for their kids. Like most people in the world. But there are no good answers here, no "moral" choices left, no room left for peace. Lots of people are going to die, all that's left is who and how many. If I'm Zelensky, then better all their people instead of mine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustinCharge 2,397 Posted June 28, 2023 the name of the game for NATO is order the MSM to spin everything positive, highlight and amplify even the tiniest victory, ignore any bad news, and try to paint this counter offensive as a big win even if you have to stretch the victory parameters in absurd directions, in order to justify spending $11 billion on it and not having anyone snoop around to see where the money went AND ask for more money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GobbleDog 997 Posted June 28, 2023 55 minutes ago, JustinCharge said: the name of the game for NATO is order the MSM to spin everything positive, highlight and amplify even the tiniest victory, ignore any bad news, and try to paint this counter offensive as a big win even if you have to stretch the victory parameters in absurd directions, in order to justify spending $11 billion on it and not having anyone snoop around to see where the money went AND ask for more money. Oh conspiracy guy... NATO doesn't order the world's free press any more than I do. They'd also be interested if their money was being stolen. The press might prefer good news stories (clicks), but it all gets reported - dead civilians and modest offensive gains. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Voltaire 5,317 Posted June 29, 2023 https://www.dailywire.com/news/top-russian-general-arrested-after-wagner-rebellion This is what I was getting at. Putin is going after anybody that either aided Prig or initially hesitated to take him on. It served as a test to see who was loyal and who was less than loyal. Having identified a 5th column, he could wind up stronger for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nobody 2,691 Posted June 29, 2023 15 hours ago, Voltaire said: It's exponentially more expensive and time consuming to build something than to blow it up. Also stationary targets are easiest to hit. Russia has a country full of resources and potential conscripts to build whatever they want as many times as they want. I don't think Russia is going to roll over and die because they lose rail for a few months. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,790 Posted June 29, 2023 Man, there is so much going on right now in Ukraine I can't keep up. I'm not sure what Wagner's up to. And now some Russian Air Force Commander might be involved in a coup?then there's Belarus? Crazyness.anybody able to update in nutshell? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pimpadeaux 2,406 Posted June 29, 2023 16 hours ago, JustinCharge said: the name of the game for NATO is order the MSM to spin everything positive, highlight and amplify even the tiniest victory, ignore any bad news, and try to paint this counter offensive as a big win even if you have to stretch the victory parameters in absurd directions, in order to justify spending $11 billion on it and not having anyone snoop around to see where the money went AND ask for more money. So now you think NATO controls MSM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustinCharge 2,397 Posted June 29, 2023 4 hours ago, Pimpadeaux said: So now you think NATO controls MSM. you are that guy that hated going into Iraq saying America should be world police. Now your favorite movie is Team America: World Police which you are playing on loop in your dumpy house. And the only reason for the switch-up is you look for the D or R next to the current presidents name. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reality 3,121 Posted June 29, 2023 I don't read this thread really, ever but... Sorry Ukraine, y'all are focked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegeneral 3,255 Posted June 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Reality said: I don't read this thread really, ever but... Sorry Ukraine, y'all are focked. This would be so awesome Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blue Horseshoe 348 Posted June 29, 2023 15 hours ago, nobody said: Russia has a country full of resources and potential conscripts to build whatever they want as many times as they want. I don't think Russia is going to roll over and die because they lose rail for a few months. You don't seem to understand the magnitude of what you believe you are saying. I will provide a cross over example. Let's say someone wanted to really hurt the United States, let's say some group like the Taliban. What if they hit America's trucking industry. Hit all the major diesel refineries. Attacked drivers on the road ( there are many long isolated desolate patches of road where trucks go through all over America) Attacked major trucking hubs. Attacked all repair centers. Attacked all factories and infrastructure that made, maintenanced and innovated for the entire fleet used in America. Your average town or city only has a certain number of grocery stores. Pharmacies. Hardware stores. Hospitals. Police stations. The average American large chain grocery store would last about 4 hours before it's stock would be depleted in a full on panic and run on goods and food in a public crisis. The average American family is estimated to have about 3 weeks of reserve food in their homes. That's the "average", many have far less than that. The projectible timeline that DARPA studied about how long civilians would go without mass rioting and violence over widespread food insecurity and missed meals, would be about 10 days. At about the two week mark where people can't get anymore food and no solution is in sight is when things will spiral out of control. If you hit America's trucking, you would also suffocate out those who need medicine. It would impact hospitals and emergency services at a catastrophic level. And this would not even bring into the cascading damage to the airline industry and the sheer chaos that would happen at the major ports and docks. The existing RZD structure is "bottlenecked" already with food transportation in Russia. It's simply an entirely different dynamic to transport food compared to other items. Putin would not just have to deal with Ukraine, he'd also have to deal with mass food riots. "Losing rail for a few months" is not something you can wishcast away. You are minimizing the critical value of Russia's rail system for it's very survival on a basic level. You are also minimizing the amount of skilled labor and technical expertise required to keep those rail lines and rail yards running smoothly. It's effectively a military operation in Russia because of the broad scale complexity of the logistics involved. You are wishcasting here. You are free to have whatever opinions you want, but no, this is not a situation where just throwing more lightly trained conscripts could fix the kind of problems that could emerge if Ukraine started attacking Russia's rail lines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nobody 2,691 Posted June 29, 2023 So now Ukraine is going to strike transportation hibs in Russia? Okay I guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gepetto 1,373 Posted June 29, 2023 3 hours ago, thegeneral said: This would be so awesome This could spark a new South Park movie by itself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pimpadeaux 2,406 Posted June 29, 2023 5 hours ago, JustinCharge said: you are that guy that hated going into Iraq saying America should be world police. Now your favorite movie is Team America: World Police which you are playing on loop in your dumpy house. And the only reason for the switch-up is you look for the D or R next to the current presidents name. Did you start drinking early today? You usually don't start becoming this unhinged until about mid-evening. "you are that guy that hated going into Iraq saying America should be world police." How could hate going into Iraq and advocate America being the world police? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 15,510 Posted June 29, 2023 Pimpadoosh was for the Iraq invasion. And he still thinks it was a good thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites