Trans Kids

[Hardcore troubadour 15,493]

10 minutes ago, MDC said:

Somebody free to entertain Toddler Pilot? He’s been humping my leg all week.

Hopefully one of the newcomers has the XMas shift covered this year.  

Triggered by this. Lol. 

[RLLD 4,252]

3 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

I think something to note is- an older generation almost always thinks the generation behind them is ruining the country. Baby Boomers were going to do it. Generation X was going to do it. Generation Z is going to do it.

I think the bigger problem is the older people get the less they seem to understand the well of kids behind them. 

Agree!

I have to allow that I am simply too old and the “new” is not for me because I am an old “fogey” and too set to accept newer ideas.

It might be a tough sell for me to accept having cross-dressers parading in front of little kids. I would feel the same way about people in bikini’s or anything that is overtly sexual. Little kids just are not ready for that IMHO

If they wanted to do it that’s fine, to each their own, but when you bring small kids into it I am not ok with that

[Strike 5,570]

1 hour ago, Sean Mooney said:

2.) It wasn't my estimate- it was from a Reuters estimate.

 

Even your own article calls it the "best estimate" available.  That doesn't mean it's a good estimate, or even remotely accurate. 

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

Even your own article calls it the "best estimate" available.  That doesn't mean it's a good estimate, or even remotely accurate. 

Doesn't mean it is grossly incorrect either. 

[Strike 5,570]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

Doesn't mean it is grossly incorrect either. 

You're right.  Glad we're in agreement that it might be accurate, or it might be completely worthless.  Given that uncertainty, it's pretty much useless. 

[jerryskids 6,827]

2 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

Typical Jerry tactic to go way into hyperbolic overdrive.

1.) I didn't say anything about throwing puberty blockers at every confused kid. But that is not what happens either.

2.) It wasn't my estimate- it was from a Reuters estimate.

Why are you so hellbent to take everything to doucheville when you argue?

I didn't argue your (Reuters) number -- 5000 on puberty blockers.  You argued, including percents and fractions of percents, that that is no big deal.  So you think 5000 is OK.  Tell me what I'm missing.   

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,358]

The pedo actually says kids just want to sing and dance and suck a d 

[jerryskids 6,827]

Also, here is the bio on the author of that healthline op ed:

Quote

Gabrielle Kassel (she/her) is a queer sex educator and wellness journalist who is committed to helping people feel the best they can in their bodies. In addition to Healthline, her work has appeared in publications such as Shape, Cosmopolitan, Well+Good, Health, Self, Women’s Health, Greatist, and more! In her free time, Gabrielle can be found coaching CrossFit, reviewing pleasure products, hiking with her border collie, or recording episodes of the podcast she co-hosts called Bad In Bed. Follow her on Instagram @Gabriellekassel.

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,493]

1 hour ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

The pedo actually says kids just want to sing and dance and suck a d 

But but Trump had dinner with some guy and Kanye 

[BuckSwope 654]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

I didn't argue your (Reuters) number -- 5000 on puberty blockers.  You argued, including percents and fractions of percents, that that is no big deal.  So you think 5000 is OK.  Tell me what I'm missing.   

Sean makes the mistake I do a lot which is a statement like that.   What I am doing, and I believe Sean is doing, is pushing back on the hyperbole that it's an "epidemic" or that all the kids are being pushed into that - stuff like that.   By doing so doesn't mean I don't care about those 5000 examples, I am just trying to have reasonable discussion with actual stats and numbers, and am tired of so many conversations having to resort to extremes to attempt to make a point.

But of course people will have various reactions to that 5000 number.   If you think those blockers should 100% never be used, then that 5000 represents a big number.   IF you look at that 5000 number and think that most are happy with the procedure and it's made an improvement, that 5000 looks different, and maybe think the focus should be on the % of that number that are not happy, wanting to detransition, claim they got pushed into, things like that.  

[jerryskids 6,827]

25 minutes ago, BuckSwope said:

Sean makes the mistake I do a lot which is a statement like that.   What I am doing, and I believe Sean is doing, is pushing back on the hyperbole that it's an "epidemic" or that all the kids are being pushed into that - stuff like that.   By doing so doesn't mean I don't care about those 5000 examples, I am just trying to have reasonable discussion with actual stats and numbers, and am tired of so many conversations having to resort to extremes to attempt to make a point.

But of course people will have various reactions to that 5000 number.   If you think those blockers should 100% never be used, then that 5000 represents a big number.   IF you look at that 5000 number and think that most are happy with the procedure and it's made an improvement, that 5000 looks different, and maybe think the focus should be on the % of that number that are not happy, wanting to detransition, claim they got pushed into, things like that.  

Thanks, and I wish folks on "my" side wouldn't use hyperboles either, because IMO it takes away from valid concerns.

I don't 100% oppose them.  I actually like @MDC's proposal of pushing the age of consent back to the states.  And I believe that there truly are trans people, so if you could be (let's say darn near) 100% sure that a kid was trans, I don't philosophically object to puberty treatments (I'd still wait on surgeries until adulthood however).

My problem lies in a firm belief that a significant (I'll say, majority) of kids who self-report on the alphabet scale are NOT truly those letters.  We have a social contagion where we not only accept but elevate and encourage confused, awkward teens to identify on the scale.  Here is the data of self-identification by generation:

https://www.axios.com/2022/02/17/lgbtq-generation-z-gallup

It's a geometric curve with each generation doubling.  Gen Z is at 20%, so the next gen is on a trajectory for 40%.  And yet the authors of that article want us to believe that this is 100% authentic and due to their comfort in coming out, not a social contagion.

Quote

The big picture: The increasing number of young adults self-identifying as LGBTQ underscores changing societal norms, Jones said.

• "The kids are growing up now ... in a very different environment," he said, adding that LGBTQ young adults are "much more likely because of their environment to acknowledge that and to accept that compared to people in the past who were in a similar situation."

As a footnote, girls are especially susceptible to social pressures during adolescence, and surprisingly (not to me), the growth in girl self-reporting is much higher:

Quote

 

Gen Z women are roughly 3 times more likely than men to identify as LGBTQ and Millennial women are about two times as likely than men to identify as such, according to Gallup.

In summary, until we fix this problem, I'm going to err on the side of caution.

[jonmx 2,429]

9 hours ago, BuckSwope said:

That's awesome, and that's one state.  I have seen others that don't address that, so just like other things we should take it state by state and bill by bill.  

Can you at least understand my concern also that recommending that isn't the same as reasonably being able to get that care?   The devil is in the details, and I haven't followed FL too closely - are they closing these clinics or are they allowing them to remain open for other care, but not for the hormones and surgeries to minors? 

The money is mostly in the surgeries and the lab work required by the hormone treatments.  So clinics will dry up because most (80 percent) dysphoric kids grow out of it without all the hormone treatments. 

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

6 hours ago, jerryskids said:

I didn't argue your (Reuters) number -- 5000 on puberty blockers.  You argued, including percents and fractions of percents, that that is no big deal.  So you think 5000 is OK.  Tell me what I'm missing.   

I'm saying the numbers don't support this being a major issue at this time. They might in the future. They do not right now. 

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

3 hours ago, BuckSwope said:

Sean makes the mistake I do a lot which is a statement like that.   What I am doing, and I believe Sean is doing, is pushing back on the hyperbole that it's an "epidemic" or that all the kids are being pushed into that - stuff like that.   By doing so doesn't mean I don't care about those 5000 examples, I am just trying to have reasonable discussion with actual stats and numbers, and am tired of so many conversations having to resort to extremes to attempt to make a point.

But of course people will have various reactions to that 5000 number.   If you think those blockers should 100% never be used, then that 5000 represents a big number.   IF you look at that 5000 number and think that most are happy with the procedure and it's made an improvement, that 5000 looks different, and maybe think the focus should be on the % of that number that are not happy, wanting to detransition, claim they got pushed into, things like that.  

Yeah for the most part. Look- people on the other side (in this instance) like to take the route of "Well if you support this one thing, you support all of it." That 5,000 number- I would love if it was 0. Because personally, I don't understand the concept of "I was born a man but feel like I am a woman inside so let me change it." Just full stop- I don't. However, I also recognize that my personal thoughts and experiences should not govern other people's thoughts and experiences because while a health issue- it is a personal health issue. A kid next door (hypothetically) deciding they want to be a woman and taking puberty blockers to help facilitate some of that is not going to affect my life one bit. So- if they think it is the best decision for themselves let them do it. A doctor can talk with them about the risks. They can suggest, they can ultimately refuse to do the surgery....but ultimately it is going to come down to what someone personally wants to do- which is why the number is 5,000. 

[jerryskids 6,827]

26 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Yeah for the most part. Look- people on the other side (in this instance) like to take the route of "Well if you support this one thing, you support all of it." That 5,000 number- I would love if it was 0. Because personally, I don't understand the concept of "I was born a man but feel like I am a woman inside so let me change it." Just full stop- I don't. However, I also recognize that my personal thoughts and experiences should not govern other people's thoughts and experiences because while a health issue- it is a personal health issue. A kid next door (hypothetically) deciding they want to be a woman and taking puberty blockers to help facilitate some of that is not going to affect my life one bit. So- if they think it is the best decision for themselves let them do it. A doctor can talk with them about the risks. They can suggest, they can ultimately refuse to do the surgery....but ultimately it is going to come down to what someone personally wants to do- which is why the number is 5,000. 

I generally agree with this except for the bolded, which ties into my earlier assertion that we suddenly think kids have enough life experience to make such decisions.  

And if you instead mean the parents, that ties into my assertion that we're making it not only socially acceptable but socially desirable.

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

34 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I generally agree with this except for the bolded, which ties into my earlier assertion that we suddenly think kids have enough life experience to make such decisions.  

And if you instead mean the parents, that ties into my assertion that we're making it not only socially acceptable but socially desirable.

All I will say is- as I've seen some of this stuff up close ....there are a lot of issues in all of this that surround ideas of self harm. I can imagine some parents go along with it because a former male kid as a woman is better than a dead kid potentially. 

[jerryskids 6,827]

36 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

All I will say is- as I've seen some of this stuff up close ....there are a lot of issues in all of this that surround ideas of self harm. I can imagine some parents go along with it because a former male kid as a woman is better than a dead kid potentially. 

Interesting, because a while back I asserted that trans is the new cutting, or anorexia, or other cries for help/attention that kids did in the past.  I recall catching some crap about that analogy.  Anyway, if you believe it is true as I do, then just agreeing with them and giving them hormones/blockers or cutting off body parts is not terribly unlike helping an anorexic kid shove her finger down her throat.

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

3 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Interesting, because a while back I asserted that trans is the new cutting, or anorexia, or other cries for help/attention that kids did in the past.  I recall catching some crap about that analogy.  Anyway, if you believe it is true as I do, then just agreeing with them and giving them hormones/blockers or cutting off body parts is not terribly unlike helping an anorexic kid shove her finger down her throat.

Because being trans isn't necessarily a call for attention....and resorting that (or any of it) to a "call for attention" minimizes real issues that are at play. 

And again the amount of people just getting puberty blockers is low. It is a last step type thing. 

[jerryskids 6,827]

5 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Because being trans isn't necessarily a call for attention....and resorting that (or any of it) to a "call for attention" minimizes real issues that are at play. 

And again the amount of people just getting puberty blockers is low. It is a last step type thing. 

Not necessarily, but often it is.  But this is part of the problem -- because it can be real, our current society mandates that we treat it all like it is real.  

And I shouldn't have said the puberty blockers part; just accepting those who are crying for help is not a good approach either.

[avoiding injuries 1,592]

15 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Interesting, because a while back I asserted that trans is the new cutting, or anorexia, or other cries for help/attention that kids did in the past.  I recall catching some crap about that analogy.  Anyway, if you believe it is true as I do, then just agreeing with them and giving them hormones/blockers or cutting off body parts is not terribly unlike helping an anorexic kid shove her finger down her throat.

Or giving a cutter a blade and showing them how to cut the radial artery vertically. 

[jonmx 2,429]

1 hour ago, Sean Mooney said:

All I will say is- as I've seen some of this stuff up close ....there are a lot of issues in all of this that surround ideas of self harm. I can imagine some parents go along with it because a former male kid as a woman is better than a dead kid potentially. 

It is so misleading and grossly manipulative for doctors to tell a parent 'would you rather have a dead daughter or a live son?'.  While many kids all of types think about suicide, the actual numbers who follow through are a small percentage.  Overall the suicide rate around teens are around 15 per 100,000, with trans kids being 4 times higher at about 60 per 100,000.   So while risks for trans kids is elevated, suggesting to the parent that it is life or death choice is not even close to reality.  

BTW, males are also about 4 times more likely to commit suicide than females.  Does that mean anti-male rhetoric is causing boys to kill themselves?  Also, the states that allow access to gender affirming care without parental consent have a 14 percent higher rate of suicide among trangender youth.   

We really don't know the answers, but we do know these gender care doctors pushing gender affirming care are misleading children and parents.  This needs to stop and hopefully there is some success in lawsuits going through the courts to fix some of these malpmalpractice. 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,493]

The amount of children taking puberty blockers is extremely low.  So we know they are safe. 

[MDC 7,484]

5 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Thanks, and I wish folks on "my" side wouldn't use hyperboles either, because IMO it takes away from valid concerns.

I don't 100% oppose them.  I actually like @MDC's proposal of pushing the age of consent back to the states.  And I believe that there truly are trans people, so if you could be (let's say darn near) 100% sure that a kid was trans, I don't philosophically object to puberty treatments (I'd still wait on surgeries until adulthood however).

My problem lies in a firm belief that a significant (I'll say, majority) of kids who self-report on the alphabet scale are NOT truly those letters.  We have a social contagion where we not only accept but elevate and encourage confused, awkward teens to identify on the scale.  Here is the data of self-identification by generation:

https://www.axios.com/2022/02/17/lgbtq-generation-z-gallup

It's a geometric curve with each generation doubling.  Gen Z is at 20%, so the next gen is on a trajectory for 40%.  And yet the authors of that article want us to believe that this is 100% authentic and due to their comfort in coming out, not a social contagion.

As a footnote, girls are especially susceptible to social pressures during adolescence, and surprisingly (not to me), the growth in girl self-reporting is much higher:

In summary, until we fix this problem, I'm going to err on the side of caution.

Just cause you mentioned me, I wasn’t saying just turn it back to the states but tie it to the state’s age when minors can make medical decisions, usually 16-18. 

I think 16 y/o is a decent compromise too.

[jerryskids 6,827]

15 minutes ago, MDC said:

Just cause you mentioned me, I wasn’t saying just turn it back to the states but tie it to the state’s age when minors can make medical decisions, usually 16-18. 

I think 16 y/o is a decent compromise too.

I see the distinction you are drawing, but I'm not sure how you legislate it at a federal level.  Sounds like you are proposing a law that says "states shall allow trans medical decisions at the then current age of any other medical decisions, and states can't make a separate law."  Seems unwieldy, and I'd expect the current SCOTUS would instead treat it like it did abortion.   

[jerryskids 6,827]

23 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The amount of children taking puberty blockers is extremely low.  So we know they are safe. 

I wonder if our bored centrists recognize what you are saying, because they haven't responded to this the other times you've said it.  Perhaps they see the wisdom in it and are hoping you leave it alone?  

[Hardcore troubadour 15,493]

12 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I wonder if our bored centrists recognize what you are saying, because they haven't responded to this the other times you've said it.  Perhaps they see the wisdom in it and are hoping you leave it alone?  

It happens. Mooney said there’s a scientific journal somewhere showing they are safe and that studies have been done. He didn’t provide the name though. 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,493]

8 hours ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

The pedo actually says kids just want to sing and dance and suck a d 

Crickets from the enablers. 

[Drizzay 723]

Why are the .0125% getting any airplay?

[BuckSwope 654]

1 hour ago, jonmx said:

It is so misleading and grossly manipulative for doctors to tell a parent 'would you rather have a dead daughter or a live son?'.  While many kids all of types think about suicide, the actual numbers who follow through are a small percentage.  Overall the suicide rate around teens are around 15 per 100,000, with trans kids being 4 times higher at about 60 per 100,000.   So while risks for trans kids is elevated, suggesting to the parent that it is life or death choice is not even close to reality.  

BTW, males are also about 4 times more likely to commit suicide than females.  Does that mean anti-male rhetoric is causing boys to kill themselves?  Also, the states that allow access to gender affirming care without parental consent have a 14 percent higher rate of suicide among trangender youth.   

We really don't know the answers, but we do know these gender care doctors pushing gender affirming care are misleading children and parents.  This needs to stop and hopefully there is some success in lawsuits going through the courts to fix some of these malpmalpractice. 

 

To be clear isn't this death rates, not attempts?   Males are always higher in that regard because of more access to guns, which are more likely to lead to a successful attempt.  

[dogcows 1,030]

7 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

But but Trump had dinner with some guy and Kanye 

So, you think drag queens are worse than Nazis? Interesting.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,358]

1 minute ago, dogcows said:

So, you think drag queens are worse than Nazis? Interesting.

Yes drag queen groomers are worse. Pedophilia is worse than a nazi sympathizer. 
 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 15,493]

3 minutes ago, dogcows said:

So, you think drag queens are worse than Nazis? Interesting.

I think Pedos are worse than idiots with a podcast and no power. You don’t? Interesting. Looks like we have found another one. 

[dogcows 1,030]

1 hour ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Yes drag queen groomers are worse. Pedophilia is worse than a nazi sympathizer. 
 

 

You added the “groomer” part for some reason. But killing 6 million Jews is not a big deal when compared to men dressing as women?

The centrist has spoken.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,493]

10 minutes ago, dogcows said:

You added the “groomer” part for some reason. But killing 6 million Jews is not a big deal when compared to men dressing as women?

The centrist has spoken.

Pedophiles are amongst us and committing their acts of savagery everyday on innocent victims. Nazis exist mostly in your head and some shock jock that says stupid things about them and is rightly destroyed for it seems to be a bigger issue for you. You should be at least concerned with the former as you are with the latter. For some reason you aren’t. Interesting.  Pushing Nazi propaganda that has no chance of going anywhere is bad, but in the  end meaningless.  But pushing the sexualization of children is no big deal, that won’t lead to anything either I guess.  Those kids are just there to sing and suck a D. No big deal. 

[dogcows 1,030]

14 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Pedophiles are amongst us and committing their acts of savagery everyday on innocent victims. Nazis exist mostly in your head and some shock jock that says stupid things about them and is rightly destroyed for it seems to be a bigger issue for you. You should be at least concerned with the former as you are with the latter. For some reason you aren’t. Interesting.  Pushing Nazi propaganda that has no chance of going anywhere is bad, but in the  end meaningless.  But pushing the sexualization of children is no big deal, that won’t lead to anything either I guess.  Those kids are just there to sing and suck a D. No big deal. 

It’s ok to be a Nazi because it’s unlikely Nazis will regain power and commit another Holocaust?

There is something seriously wrong with anybody who thinks men dressing up as women is a bigger problem than Nazis.

And all the “groomer” nonsense is the same BS we heard in the 80s when gay people started coming out of the closet more often. But, surprise, gay people aren’t pedophiles. They just are attracted to people of the same sex.

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that homophobes spreading lies about “grooming” also think it’s cool to be a Nazi.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,493]

5 minutes ago, dogcows said:

It’s ok to be a Nazi because it’s unlikely Nazis will regain power and commit another Holocaust?

There is something seriously wrong with anybody who thinks men dressing up as women is a bigger problem than Nazis.

And all the “groomer” nonsense is the same BS we heard in the 80s when gay people started coming out of the closet more often. But, surprise, gay people aren’t pedophiles. They just are attracted to people of the same sex.

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that homophobes spreading lies about “grooming” also think it’s cool to be a Nazi.

Nobody had an issue with men dressing up as women and acting like perverts until they got kids involved. No one has an issue now with men dressing up as women and acting like perverts around other adults. Nice try. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,358]

1 hour ago, dogcows said:

You added the “groomer” part for some reason. But killing 6 million Jews is not a big deal when compared to men dressing as women?

The centrist has spoken.

Who killed 6 million actual nazis or people you idiots just like to call nazis. 
 

what this twisted person was doing is far worse than Kanye talking about nazis 
 

and yes I added groomers cause that’s what these sickos are doing 

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

8 hours ago, jonmx said:

It is so misleading and grossly manipulative for doctors to tell a parent 'would you rather have a dead daughter or a live son?'.  While many kids all of types think about suicide, the actual numbers who follow through are a small percentage.  Overall the suicide rate around teens are around 15 per 100,000, with trans kids being 4 times higher at about 60 per 100,000.   So while risks for trans kids is elevated, suggesting to the parent that it is life or death choice is not even close to reality.  

 

 I don't think doctors are doing that. 

[Sean Mooney 1,984]

7 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

It happens. Mooney said there’s a scientific journal somewhere showing they are safe and that studies have been done. He didn’t provide the name though. 

Here is an article on the benefits of gender affirming care: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-the-science-on-gender-affirming-care-for-transgender-kids-really-shows/

Here are papers on the study of the literature as it relates to puberty blockers:

https://acamh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/camh.12437

https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/jpem-2018-0048/html

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(21)00235-2/fulltext

https://www.bmj.com/content/366/bmj.l5647

https://acamh.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/camh.12533

 

That is at least 5 different papers (covering multiple studies that have been done) on the effectiveness of puberty blockers from a practical standpoint, a legitimacy standpoint, an effectiveness standpoint. So you are absolutely wrong in thinking that they don't test this stuff and have some idea of the long term effects both positive and negative from all different angles.

Not sure why you enjoy eating sh!t on these discussions all the time but here you are again mouth open wide ready to take the sh!t in....so enjoy I guess. 

[dogcows 1,030]

6 hours ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Who killed 6 million actual nazis or people you idiots just like to call nazis. 
 

what this twisted person was doing is far worse than Kanye talking about nazis 
 

and yes I added groomers cause that’s what these sickos are doing 

Nope. This is just pure homophobia.

Nick Fuentes and Kanye are not secret Nazis. They’re quite open about it. You can easily find what they’ve said about liking Hitler, denying the Holocaust, wishing death to Jews, etc.