Student Loan “forgiveness”

[dogcows 1,029]

3 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

This.  You don’t just “forgive” a loan as if it magically goes away. :poof:  Somebody is now incurring that expense.  That somebody is Jim and Jen Taxpayer.  
 

Guess who now is NOT?  The university, with their billion dollar endowments or the original borrower who spent the money.  

We need to change the education system in America, no doubt. Germany’s system is pretty good. If you get great test scores, you go to public university for free (their public schools are the top schools, unlike in America where private schools are better). Otherwise, you can focus on vocational school. If you didn’t make the cut and still want to go study? You have to pay for a private school. It’s a merit-based system that is designed to put the smartest people Into college programs matching their talent and intelligence. At the same time, it gives opportunities for those that can’t (or don’t want to) take that path. Vocational school programs start as early as middle school.

But this is a good stopgap; it will improve the lives of millions of middle class young people. IMHO, if the expanded child tax credit hadn’t been blocked in the Senate, this loan forgiveness might not have happened. But young adults need some relief, and this is something the President can do without the approval of Congress.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,748]

12 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

How many posts do you average per day on your boss's dime?

Maybe its a family business and his job is secure and they don’t give him much to do, like Hawkeye? Or maybe his wife makes the money, like Haucknuff? 

[Hawkeye21 1,864]

5 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Maybe its a family business and his job is secure and they don’t give him much to do, like Hawkeye? Or maybe his wife makes the money, like Haucknuff? 

  It's funny how much I bother you.  The things you like to make up in order to feel better about yourself are comical.

[craftsman 1,045]

10 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

How many posts do you average per day on your boss's dime?

Zero.

I excel at my job. My company cares more about delivering quality work on time as is laid out in the project plan rather than what hours or how long it takes me to do my work other than meetings, or specific support. Whether it be planning, design, build, test and/or deployment. That goes for whatever role I am put in per each project. Which often changes. I got a $12k salary raise on my last review along with a $10k bonus.

How many posts do you average per day on your bosses dime?  

 

[Sean Mooney 1,184]

24 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

This.  You don’t just “forgive” a loan as if it magically goes away. :poof:  Somebody is now incurring that expense.  That somebody is Jim and Jen Taxpayer.  
 

Guess who now is NOT?  The university, with their billion dollar endowments or the original borrower who spent the money.  

I mean Jim and Jen Taxpayer are very likely people who got their student loans forgiven....so they are paying a little more in taxes a month (maybe) to get out from under interest rates of like 6%....it's a fair trade off. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,748]

1 minute ago, Sean Mooney said:

I mean Jim and Jen Taxpayer are very likely people who got their student loans forgiven....so they are paying a little more in taxes a month (maybe) to get out from under interest rates of like 6%....it's a fair trade off. 

38 pct of the people in this country attended college. Not all of them took loans. Some of them paid them off. How is that a good deal again? It is for you. You’re welcome, grub. 

[Twinsdad 46]

6 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

I mean Jim and Jen Taxpayer are very likely people who got their student loans forgiven....so they are paying a little more in taxes a month (maybe) to get out from under interest rates of like 6%....it's a fair trade off. 

6% on $10,000 isn't even $2.00 per day.  And if Jim and Jen were so worried about their 6% interest rate on $10K, maybe they should stop spending on their 21% rate credit cards.

[Sean Mooney 1,184]

12 minutes ago, Twinsdad said:

6% on $10,000 isn't even $2.00 per day.  And if Jim and Jen were so worried about their 6% interest rate on $10K, maybe they should stop spending on their 21% rate credit cards.

They won't have to now because they will have extra money from their student loan payment possibly not being there every month.

Besides- they'd still be paying almost 80 dollars a month extra in interest over the course of the loan and their taxes most likely won't go up that high- again, if at all. 

[craftsman 1,045]

2 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

They won't have to now because they will have extra money from their student loan payment possibly not being there every month.

Lazy low achieving liberal wants the freebies at other's expense. Pathetic. 

[craftsman 1,045]

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/dave-ramsey-reacts-bidens-student-loan-handout-political-ploy

 

Reacting to news of the student loan handout on Wednesday, Dave Ramsey — personal finance expert, eight-time #1 national best-selling author and host of "The Ramsey Show" — said, "This is so intellectually dishonest."

He added, "If [student loans] are so bad that you have to cancel them, then why are you continuing to make them? You should at least stop making them before we start forgiving them," he added of student debt arrangements.

"It's an obvious political ploy," he also said, addressing his radio audience on Wednesday.

"This is aggravating," he said. 

He noted that the student loan industry is "predatory."

"I'm guessing there will be some legal challenges to this," Ramsey also said of the Biden handout plan. 

For months, Ramsey has been saying that the president would likely announce something about student loan cancellation or forgiveness around this time of year — just ahead of the midterms. 

Ramsey had two other key points to make.

"If you are a $10,000 student loan person and you make less than $125,000, and [your loan] is getting ready to be forgiven — we're happy for you. We want good things for you," he said, referencing the notion of getting out of debt as quickly as possible. 

However, he said, "we're also simultaneously angry on behalf of the people who paid off their loans and feel screwed — and you know why they feel screwed? Because they got screwed. That's why."

Ramsey said he also feels angry because he sees this as "an obvious political ploy, when this presidency, from an economic standpoint, is the greatest failure since Jimmy Carter."

He talked about high gas prices and high food prices. 

"The economy is not prospering," he emphasized, "and they just passed the largest spending bill in history, to add to this."

He said, "This slide toward socialism … is out of control. This is a failed presidency," he said.

Ramsey also said of the student loan handout, "What about the guy who takes out a student loan next week? What [is Washington] going to do to help him?"

 

[Twinsdad 46]

1 minute ago, Sean Mooney said:

They won't have to now because they will have extra money from their student loan payment possibly not being there every month.

You must not be a math or finance teacher.....

I'd be willing to bet that anyone that has taken Federal loans in college has WAY more than $10k, so this isn't going to even put a dent in what they owe.  My experience, with 4 kids in college, the $10k is reached by their second year.  One of my sons has ~$19k and only took it for 2 1/2 years.  For 4 years I would expect that a student has $30k in Federal loans.

So this 'foregiveness' may help a little, but If aren't paying down the $30k, they probably won't be paying on the $20k.

[craftsman 1,045]

5 minutes ago, Twinsdad said:

You must not be a math or finance teacher.....

I'd be willing to bet that anyone that has taken Federal loans in college has WAY more than $10k, so this isn't going to even put a dent in what they owe.  My experience, with 4 kids in college, the $10k is reached by their second year.  One of my sons has ~$19k and only took it for 2 1/2 years.  For 4 years I would expect that a student has $30k in Federal loans.

So this 'foregiveness' may help a little, but If aren't paying down the $30k, they probably won't be paying on the $20k.

The liberals who love this will just sit on their assess waiting for the next handout at the expense of the hard working responsible people in this country. 

[Sean Mooney 1,184]

19 minutes ago, Twinsdad said:

You must not be a math or finance teacher.....

I'd be willing to bet that anyone that has taken Federal loans in college has WAY more than $10k, so this isn't going to even put a dent in what they owe.  My experience, with 4 kids in college, the $10k is reached by their second year.  One of my sons has ~$19k and only took it for 2 1/2 years.  For 4 years I would expect that a student has $30k in Federal loans.

So this 'foregiveness' may help a little, but If aren't paying down the $30k, they probably won't be paying on the $20k.

I said from the start I think at best this is a band aid on a much larger problem. I would have been far more interested in them working at fixing the interest on student loans. I also said- the only good thing I really saw in any of this was working towards adjusting IDR plans because that helps.

10,000 "forgiven" on student loans probably knocks around 3-4 years off of someone's student loan which potentially allows a kid coming out of college to be out of that debt by the time they are 30 (depending on the amount they have out) as opposed to into their mid 30's potentially. 

Outside of the whole "buying votes" false argument I get what they are going for- I just think they attacked the wrong side of the problem.

As far as the "you must not be a math or finance teacher" condescending argument- I do know that if you pay 6% interest on 30,000 as opposed to 6% on 20,000 you are going to pay far more in interest over the course of the loan. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,610]

of course we have board centrists defending everything Biden does, its so strange

 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,748]

I wonder what the ratio of state schools vs private schools is for this? 

[supermike80 1,290]

Can this get blocked or reversed by the courts? Or is it a done deal end of story?

[Strike 4,011]

2 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Can this get blocked or reversed by the courts? Or is it a done deal end of story?

I think it can.  And I hope it does.

[Sean Mooney 1,184]

6 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

of course we have board centrists defending everything Biden does, its so strange

 

"I said from the start I think at best this is a band aid on a much larger problem."

Yes- what praise for Biden....You guys are silly at this point just tilting at (government subsidized) windmills. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,610]

1 minute ago, Sean Mooney said:

"I said from the start I think at best this is a band aid on a much larger problem."

Yes- what praise for Biden....You guys are silly at this point just tilting at (government subsidized) windmills. 

the fact you think its even a band-aid at best shows your lack of intelligence, and you are defending me paying taxes for your shtty loan

[Gladiators 1,904]

8 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

of course we have board centrists defending everything Biden does, its so strange

 

Yep. They didn’t vote for and do not support him, but it’s painfully obvious they hate to criticize his decisions.

[Sean Mooney 1,184]

3 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

the fact you think its even a band-aid at best shows your lack of intelligence, and you are defending me paying taxes for your shtty loan

Where did I say that?

I also said what I think the real issue is....Additionally when someone says "a band aid at best" that is not glowing praise. You overstepped to deliver your stupid hot take about board centrists.

 

It's okay to just admit it. 

[Cdub100 3,402]

1 hour ago, dogcows said:

We need to change the education system in America, no doubt. Germany’s system is pretty good. If you get great test scores, you go to public university for free (their public schools are the top schools, unlike in America where private schools are better). Otherwise, you can focus on vocational school. If you didn’t make the cut and still want to go study? You have to pay for a private school. It’s a merit-based system that is designed to put the smartest people Into college programs matching their talent and intelligence. At the same time, it gives opportunities for those that can’t (or don’t want to) take that path. Vocational school programs start as early as middle school.

But this is a good stopgap; it will improve the lives of millions of middle class young people. IMHO, if the expanded child tax credit hadn’t been blocked in the Senate, this loan forgiveness might not have happened. But young adults need some relief, and this is something the President can do without the approval of Congress.

This would be racist, and not inclusive enough. Do better.

[Cdub100 3,402]

57 minutes ago, Twinsdad said:

You must not be a math or finance teacher.....

I'd be willing to bet that anyone that has taken Federal loans in college has WAY more than $10k, so this isn't going to even put a dent in what they owe.  My experience, with 4 kids in college, the $10k is reached by their second year.  One of my sons has ~$19k and only took it for 2 1/2 years.  For 4 years I would expect that a student has $30k in Federal loans.

So this 'foregiveness' may help a little, but If aren't paying down the $30k, they probably won't be paying on the $20k.

You don't think cutting 1/3 of a person's debt is putting a dent in it?

Also good to see you, twins, it's been a while.

[Cdub100 3,402]

2 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

This.  You don’t just “forgive” a loan as if it magically goes away. :poof:  Somebody is now incurring that expense.  That somebody is Jim and Jen Taxpayer.  
 

Guess who now is NOT?  The university, with their billion dollar endowments or the original borrower who spent the money.  

I posted earlier but it needs to be said again.

Student loans are held by banks. The government will borrow money from the federal reserve (which is a private bank) to pay off these loans. That debt the government is taking on will only have the interest paid towards it in perpetuity and maybe not even that.

 

[Fireballer 2,394]

https://youtu.be/ttGwtJkRAQI

[Twinsdad 46]

8 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

You don't think cutting 1/3 of a person's debt is putting a dent in it?

Also good to see you, twins, it's been a while.

Good to see you too Cdub, we need to do a FFTMDL reunion to watch MNF sometime.

I would agree that getting rid of 1/3 of someone's loans does help considerably.  The $30k number is just from taking the minimum Fed Direct Subsidized and Unsubsidized loans for 4 years.  The people complaining the most have $100k-200k in loans because they got graduate degrees in underwater art appreciation using Federal loans and are working in a job that doesn't pay squat.  Now the $10k is only 5%-10% of their debt.

[Sean Mooney 1,184]

4 minutes ago, Twinsdad said:

Good to see you too Cdub, we need to do a FFTMDL reunion to watch MNF sometime.

I would agree that getting rid of 1/3 of someone's loans does help considerably.  The $30k number is just from taking the minimum Fed Direct Subsidized and Unsubsidized loans for 4 years.  The people complaining the most have $100k-200k in loans because they got graduate degrees in underwater art appreciation using Federal loans and are working in a job that doesn't pay squat.  Now the $10k is only 5%-10% of their debt.

Your example here is a good one and it is where I have a problem with the whole thing. It is also why I would advocate fixing the interest rates and dropping them across the board to a flat number and letting anyone below that number alone.

That way you can at least argue "Hey you were stupid and pursued a career in underwater photography that paid jack squat so you are still paying that 90K you owe but at only like 2% as opposed to 5." 

[Cdub100 3,402]

Just now, Twinsdad said:

Good to see you too Cdub, we need to do a FFTMDL reunion to watch MNF sometime.

I would agree that getting rid of 1/3 of someone's loans does help considerably.  The $30k number is just from taking the minimum Fed Direct Subsidized and Unsubsidized loans for 4 years.  The people complaining the most have $100k-200k in loans because they got graduate degrees in underwater art appreciation using Federal loans and are working in a job that doesn't pay squat.  Now the $10k is only 5%-10% of their debt.

10k is 10k and if they do it once I'm sure they will do it every two years during the election cycle.

[Engorgeous George 1,221]

The Markets, having had time to absorb and react to this news seem unhappy.

[Cdub100 3,402]

3 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Your example here is a good one and it is where I have a problem with the whole thing. It is also why I would advocate fixing the interest rates and dropping them across the board to a flat number and letting anyone below that number alone.

That way you can at least argue "Hey you were stupid and pursued a career in underwater photography that paid jack squat so you are still paying that 90K you owe but at only like 2% as opposed to 5." 

I'd be okay with 1% or even 0%. I'm okay with trying to educate the public. I do not believe *in general* that universities are doing that. 

[Sean Mooney 1,184]

3 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

I'd be okay with 1% or even 0%. I'm okay with trying to educate the public. I do not believe *in general* that universities are doing that. 

Like I said- forgiving 10K and not addressing the interest rates that are out of control is attacking the wrong problem.

Also, the IDR adjustments are the only real worthwhile thing in this. And even that- I'm not sure on all the particulars of. 

[Cdub100 3,402]

1 minute ago, Sean Mooney said:

Like I said- forgiving 10K and not addressing the interest rates that are out of control is attacking the wrong problem.

Also, the IDR adjustments are the only real worthwhile thing in this. And even that- I'm not sure on all the particulars of. 

Here is what I said about I think is the real problem.

On 8/24/2022 at 9:30 AM, Cdub100 said:

When Clinton made it easier for everyone to get a college loan he essentially told the colleges to go ahead and raise tuition as high as they want. That's exactly what happened. If the government forgives loans you're gonna see tuition go up even faster. 

Fix that first.

 

[Twinsdad 46]

8 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Your example here is a good one and it is where I have a problem with the whole thing. It is also why I would advocate fixing the interest rates and dropping them across the board to a flat number and letting anyone below that number alone.

That way you can at least argue "Hey you were stupid and pursued a career in underwater photography that paid jack squat so you are still paying that 90K you owe but at only like 2% as opposed to 5." 

I'd also be okay with a low fixed rate loan. The Fed rates are lower than private banks, but only by a couple of points.

6 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

10k is 10k and if they do it once I'm sure they will do it every two years during the election cycle.

yeah it is and that's why people will continue to take them, expecting the Gov't bailout every couple of years.  

 

One think I don't like is where they drew the line, $125k.  Someone making that much should be able to afford their loans.  I thought it would/should be somewhere around $75k for individuals.  

Even at $125k, I saw an article that said it will help over 40 million people.  That's only 12% of the population.  I don't like the other 88% having to pick up the tab for their poor choices.

 

[jerryskids 5,228]

2 hours ago, craftsman said:

 

 

He added, "If [student loans] are so bad that you have to cancel them, then why are you continuing to make them? You should at least stop making them before we start forgiving them," he added of student debt arrangements.

 

Amen

[Cdub100 3,402]

2 hours ago, craftsman said:

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/dave-ramsey-reacts-bidens-student-loan-handout-political-ploy

He added, "If [student loans] are so bad that you have to cancel them, then why are you continuing to make them? You should at least stop making them before we start forgiving them," he added of student debt arrangements.

 

In general, I don't think student loans are bad. They have helped millions of people. Myself included. I do think they are too easily given out. I think university prey on students knowing this. I'd liked to see increased scrutiny and guidance given for every 10k you borrow. Someone who is 150k in student loan debt that isn't becoming a MEDICIAL doctor shouldn't have been allowed to rack up that much debt. It's focking crazy. 

Hello Zer I see you have 35k in loan debt and you're on year 7 of a gender studies degree I'm sorry but we can't approve your loan request.

[Chronic Fockster 106]

Student loans helped me.  I needed $15k.  If I didn't get it I would have had to take a year off and work, maybe never gone back, never got my degree, never made millions, paid millions in taxes, so the loan was a win win

[MDC 5,915]

What’s the difference between an art major and a philosophy major?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The philosophy major asks, “Why do you want fries with that?”  

[Chronic Fockster 106]

Student loans should be treated like mortgages.  

You make $30k as a stripper and want to buy a half mil house in Detroit?  Yeah nah.

You're a C student, and you want $120k to attend sh1tsburg U for a latin degree?  Hard pass.

[Cdub100 3,402]

22 minutes ago, Chronic Fockster said:

Student loans should be treated like mortgages.  

You make $30k as a stripper and want to buy a half mil house in Detroit?  Yeah nah.

You're a C student, and you want $120k to attend sh1tsburg U for a latin degree?  Hard pass.

I was going to make the same analogy, but remember the 08 housing market crash and how easy it is to get a loan right now. 

SL should be harder because someone buying a house usually has some sort of income coming in. What does a college student have?

[TBayXXXVII 2,137]

3 hours ago, dogcows said:

We need to change the education system in America, no doubt. Germany’s system is pretty good. If you get great test scores, you go to public university for free (their public schools are the top schools, unlike in America where private schools are better). Otherwise, you can focus on vocational school. If you didn’t make the cut and still want to go study? You have to pay for a private school. It’s a merit-based system that is designed to put the smartest people Into college programs matching their talent and intelligence. At the same time, it gives opportunities for those that can’t (or don’t want to) take that path. Vocational school programs start as early as middle school.

...and when this system is considered racist, then what?