NFL reportedly considering measuring first downs with electronics system next season

[edjr 6,578]

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-reportedly-considering-measuring-first-downs-with-electronics-system-next-season-192754508.html

Quote

 

Following a controversial spot of the football in last Sunday's AFC championship game that many felt cost the Buffalo Bills a possible victory over the Kansas City Chiefs, renewed support for electronic help in measuring first downs has been voiced among media and fans.

Some support may be on the way, though not necessarily utilizing the kind of technology many are imagining. The NFL is considering an electronic system that would help determine if the ball was spotted for a first down. However, an official would still place the ball manually and a microchip would not be used for measuring a first down, according to The Washington Post's Mark Maske.

Yet such a system wouldn't necessarily prevent a situation like the one faced by the Bills against the Chiefs last week.

On a crucial fourth-quarter play, Buffalo's Josh Allen appeared to gain a first down on a quarterback sneak. Yet officials placed the ball just short of the line to gain and replay review could not conclusively show that Allen had gotten the first down.

 

What the fock took so long? Trillion dollar company. Tennis can afford it.

[Mike Honcho 5,097]

2 minutes ago, edjr said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-reportedly-considering-measuring-first-downs-with-electronics-system-next-season-192754508.html

What the fock took so long? Trillion dollar company. Tennis can afford it.

Hey, you think they get those chains for free?  

First you got to go to Home Depot, and wait around until you find someone...

[supermike80 1,804]

This measurement brought to you by Stanley Tape Measures

[listen2me 23 1,825]

15 minutes ago, edjr said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-reportedly-considering-measuring-first-downs-with-electronics-system-next-season-192754508.html

What the fock took so long? Trillion dollar company. Tennis can afford it.

The blowback from the refs repeatedly muffing spots for the Bills is probably a big reason.  

[Drizzay 699]

This will be tough to pull off.

[edjr 6,578]

2 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

The blowback from the refs repeatedly muffing spots for the Bills is probably a big reason.  

it has been an issue for years. specially for the ball touching the goal line

 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,835]

8 minutes ago, edjr said:

it has been an issue for years. specially for the ball touching the goal line

What hasn't been an issue is my balls touching your mom.

[edjr 6,578]

16 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

What hasn't been an issue is my balls touching your mom.

Do you re-bury her when you're done, or do you keep the grave open year round?

[RLLD 4,143]

I hope this is step 1 in eventually replacing these dosshbags entirely.

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

1 hour ago, Drizzay said:

This will be tough to pull off.

They can do it in tennis and soccer, why not football?

[edjr 6,578]

4 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

They can do it in tennis and soccer, why not football?

ed zachary

[Alias Detective 1,389]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

They can do it in tennis and soccer, why not football?

x-ray vision through a pile of bodies is my guess.

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

1 minute ago, Alias Detective said:

x-ray vision through a pile of bodies is my guess.

Huh?  Why would a pile of bodies matter anymore?  We would no longer need visual of the ball with new technology.

[Alias Detective 1,389]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Huh?  Why would a pile of bodies matter anymore?  We would no longer need visual of the ball with new technology.

In tennis there is a clear view of the ball and line.  In football that's not always the case.

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

Just now, Alias Detective said:

In tennis there is a clear view of the ball and line.  In football that's not always the case.

You don't need a clear few of the ball with the right technology though.  Should only need a sensor on each end of the ball.

[Alias Detective 1,389]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

You don't need a clear few of the ball with the right technology though.  Should only need a sensor on each end of the ball.

The technology is using cameras.  Not sensors in the ball.

[Hawkeye21 2,382]

2 minutes ago, Alias Detective said:

The technology is using cameras.  Not sensors in the ball.

I'm saying it's what would be used in the NFL.  The point I'm making is that other sports have used technology to know where the ball is and the NFL should also.

[edjr 6,578]

5 minutes ago, Alias Detective said:

The technology is using cameras.  Not sensors in the ball.

like when the ball ticks the net in tennis on a serve 

[Alias Detective 1,389]

2 minutes ago, edjr said:

like when the ball ticks the net in tennis on a serve 

let

[seafoam1 2,802]

59 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

They can do it in tennis and soccer, why not football?

And it will happen in the nfl. First thing's first. Get the people who know how to do it into a room, set up prototypes in certain team training camps. Tweak what needs to be tweaked. Use in the preseason. Then they will have test results to review and fix or will have identified a barrier that will prevent them from implementing this year, and pick up where they left off next year while whatever company is running the technology works on it in during season to fix the defects, then be ready for testing starting 2026 training camps all over again. They will find out by end of this summer, if they already don't know, what the biggest problems might be or not be.

 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 3,835]

2 hours ago, edjr said:

Do you re-bury her when you're done, or do you keep the grave open year round?

I keep it WIDE open!

[edjr 6,578]

59 minutes ago, Alias Detective said:

let

agreed. let them try

[Mike Honcho 5,097]

So I clicked on the WaPo story in the link.  And I don't think this is a real good system or improvement.

Quote

 

The system, which the NFL has tested in game conditions in recent seasons, would involve the football being spotted manually by the on-field officials before the electronic system would determine whether that spot resulted in a first down. That system requires such a manual placement of the ball following a play and does not incorporate, for instance, the use of a chip in the football to determine whether a runner reached the first-down spot.

The system would not necessarily address situations such as the one that arose during last weekend’s AFC championship game, in which officials’ spot of the ball on a fourth-down sneak by Buffalo Bills quarterback Josh Allen generated controversy.

 

The only thing this system does is basically save some time by not having to measure if it's a first down once the officials spot the ball-it doesn't do anything in regards to the actual spotting of the ball.  Big Whoop. 

[Drizzay 699]

The tennis ball is round.  When the chip is in the center of the ball, the outer "edge" of the ball is always equidistant.

 

With a football, it obviously is not, so you couldn't just put one chip in the center of the ball..  Even putting a chip in either point of the ball won't necessarily tell you what the furthermost forward-facing edge of the ball is.  What if the ball is being carried or is in a position where the Side of the ball is furthest forward?

 

Once you get over that hurdle, then you need to somehow sync up the GPS of the ball with all of the camera angles that will tell you when the player is down.  That part will still always be a judgement call.

[TBayXXXVII 2,484]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm saying it's what would be used in the NFL.  The point I'm making is that other sports have used technology to know where the ball is and the NFL should also.

Tennis is doing it with camera's, not sensors.  In tennis, there are always clear sight lines along the lines.  I believe that's what @Alias Detective is referring to.  The NFL almost never has clear sight lines down the line.

Not sure about soccer. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,484]

9 minutes ago, Drizzay said:

The tennis ball is round.  When the chip is in the center of the ball, the outer "edge" of the ball is always equidistant.

 

With a football, it obviously is not, so you couldn't just put one chip in the center of the ball..  Even putting a chip in either point of the ball won't necessarily tell you what the furthermost forward-facing edge of the ball is.  What if the ball is being carried or is in a position where the Side of the ball is furthest forward?

 

Once you get over that hurdle, then you need to somehow sync up the GPS of the ball with all of the camera angles that will tell you when the player is down.  That part will still always be a judgement call.

There are no chips in a tennis ball.  They use cameras down the line and high above to generate X,Y coordinates of the balls location.  It's the same for baseball.  In both of those sports, there's always clear sight lines of the ball.

That said, from a calculation standpoint, the shape of the ball is irrelevant because the ball is always 1 size.  With that being the case, if there was a chip in the ball, the location of the ball can be calculated.

To me, the issue would be the protection and placement of the chip/sensor.  If you put it in the centers of the football, how do you get it to stay there?  It won't float in the air.  It would have to be anchored.  If that's the case, will the anchoring affect the weight of the ball?  If you put it inside the rubber padding, is the leather and rubber enough protection to keep it safe from damage?  My guess is no, because I think they'd have done that already.

I don't think it's really all that feasible in football, like other sports. 

[jbycho 592]

10 minutes ago, Drizzay said:

The tennis ball is round.  When the chip is in the center of the ball, the outer "edge" of the ball is always equidistant.

 

With a football, it obviously is not, so you couldn't just put one chip in the center of the ball..  Even putting a chip in either point of the ball won't necessarily tell you what the furthermost forward-facing edge of the ball is.  What if the ball is being carried or is in a position where the Side of the ball is furthest forward?

 

Once you get over that hurdle, then you need to somehow sync up the GPS of the ball with all of the camera angles that will tell you when the player is down.  That part will still always be a judgement call.

There is so much money in the NFL, they have every opportunity, and I think a responsibility, to set basic ideas into motion and learn if they can make it work or not by using other leagues or preseason games,  without affecting anything negatively in the regular season NFL game. 

If it doesn't work, they can say why, and there are millions of interested people, and tech companies that would love to explore ways to fix the problems they find. 

Nothing bad can happen from getting things moving, and being honest about it. Unless the answer is, the NFL doesn't want the electronics part of the game at all because they are afraid people hacking or influencing the results of the technology in game. If so, they should just say it. 

[Mike Hunt 261]

The ref still has to spot the ball right?  If the spot is focked up does not matter is the electronics on the chains are correct.

[cmh6476 1,010]

long time coming.

[GobbleDog 984]

Fine add a sensor. But without sensors in their knees or butts I'm not sure how much it helps.

"We know the ball went this far! But we have no idea whether he was down before that or if the whistle was blown." 

[thegeneral 2,910]

Here’s the million dollar idea. X-ray cam that shows the ball through all the bodies. Have them on  both sidelines, have one above.

You’re welcome NFL.

[thegeneral 2,910]

If you go with a sensor you know that cheater Brady will be messing with it in Vegas. 

[weepaws 3,157]

Next they will water the game down even more, they will not use real players, just play the games on computers, with outcomes already determined, but of course if you watch KC games, you know they already have determined the outcome.   Indeed 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

1 hour ago, weepaws said:

Next they will water the game down even more, they will not use real players, just play the games on computers, with outcomes already determined, but of course if you watch KC games, you know they already have determined the outcome.   Indeed 

 

Why do you care? You claim you don’t watch. 

[weepaws 3,157]

38 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Why do you care? You claim you don’t watch. 

You have 112:596 post on a ff website, and you don’t know about ff.  

You say you’re a catholic, but deny Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior.  

You say you’re a conservative, but support abortion. 

You say you’re an ex cop, but throw threats at people. 

Matthew 12:30 Jesus said.  

He that is not with Me is against Me, and He that gather not with Me scatter abroad. Indeed Amen Thanks 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,934]

Triggered. I’m good at it. 

[weepaws 3,157]

15 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Triggered. I’m good at it. 

You are triggered, and you are good at be triggered, and you’re an easy target.  One of my favs.  I live rent free.  Thanks.  Indeed Amen Thanks 

[Mookz 1,338]

The electronics system being the live betting odds? 

[Engorgeous George 2,131]

On 2/4/2025 at 8:15 AM, RLLD said:

I hope this is step 1 in eventually replacing these dosshbags entirely.

I would rather they create cybernetic Ben Dreiths to officiate tghe games.

[Alias Detective 1,389]

Starting next season, the NFL is expected to replace first down chains with the Hawk-Eye virtual measurement system, NFL executive vice president of football operations Troy Vincent told reporters Wednesday.