the abortion thread

[kilroy69 1,039]

Obviously, if you disagree with me on when life begins, you'll disagree with this idea, but I think it covers the major sticky points.

Noted, and disagreed with.

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 38]

Even though it's probably safe to assume most won't...people do change. Not allowing a second chance is focked up. If you want that, what about mandating that guys that don't want to be fathers and get a woman pregnant get snipped?

Agreed. In fact, I think that man who has ANY children out of wedlock and does not support them should be snipped.

 

And, by support, I don't just mean financial.

[Brad GLuckman 518]

There is no more accountability for one's own actions at all anymore. There used to be a time where if someone screwed up, they had to deal with it, they had to take care of the problem. Not all that long ago that meant being a good parent, now it means killing your kid because you don't feel like being a parent.

[phillybear 365]

Even though it's probably safe to assume most won't...people do change. Not allowing a second chance is focked up. If you want that, what about mandating that guys that don't want to be fathers and get a woman pregnant get snipped?

 

Sound good. But if the man wanted to have the kid, and the woman kills it, then he gets a free pass.

[GettnHuge 1]

I didn't feel like arguing stupid shat so I avoided the topic...I dun get it, why is abortion always defined by one extreme

or another? You have one group that says anything goes, and if it isn't like that then we're not happy. You have another group

that says ban it completely and if that doesn't happen then we're not happy. I think I fall into the category with the silent

majority on this one.

 

1. abortions suck, I wish they didn't exist but they do

2. In cases of rape, serious health issues with the infant, a girl just being too young for such responsibility, etc, those I can

understand using it.

3. late term/partial birth abortions should stay banned. those are just too wrong.

4. If the man disagrees with the woman, have a judge flip a coin. Of course if she listened to me, redtodd wouldn't be here.

5. If you are poor, the gov't can give you a free abortion...BUT you get tied as a consequence.

6. aborted fetuses should not be studied for medical benefit, but made into soylent green

7. women's rights organizations should be disbanned until they can find hotter looking members who can take a punch.

8. Kellog and Barr pharmaceuticals combine efforts to put a positive spin on the morning after pill with a revitalization

of the tried and true catchphrase: Leggo my eggo!

9. shup

[Franknbeans 46]

I support woman's right to choose because

 

 

IT'S NONE OF MY DAMN BUSINESS!

[kutulu 1,564]

At least you're consistent.

 

 

Maybe I'm just focking around.

[wiffleball 4,696]

I say that if we define human life to begin at conception, we don't have to debate about the legality of abortion. It goes away by itself.

 

Obviously, if you disagree with me on when life begins, you'll disagree with this idea, but I think it covers the major sticky points.

 

As has been said, the real key is what defines "life" and "alive". A blastocyst the size of the tip of a pen with no formed organs, brain or capability to thrive on its own in my view is hardly "alive". Certainly the potential for life, but if we're going down that thread, I just killed about 4 million children this morning.

 

On the other hand, being a 7th-month 3.6 lb preemie with RH who needed 7 full body transfusions in a time when such babies didn't usually live past their first week, I'm kinda partial to the ban on third trimester abortions. These days, babies are born and thrive in even the late 2nd trimester.

 

Maybe I'm just being simple here (it's early), but this seems fairly clear to me:

 

How do we tell if someone's dead? Their heart isn't beating.**

 

How do we tell if a fetus is alive? Their heart is beating. That occurs around week 5. So, you get a month.

 

Seems reasonable to me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

**Don't give the respirator crap.

[dain11279 935]

Yes. The mother had no choice in the matter. Kill the little focker.

 

 

I hate to go all Jim Rome on you but I honestly spit my water all over my computer screen.

[kilroy69 1,039]

Even with a slanted poll - it looks like it may be a photo finish.

Notsomuchanymore.

[Frank M 181]

I've had this discussion here before, and my stance is still the same.

 

I support a woman's right to choose in any circumstance.

 

The interesting thing about this thread is that the poll at this point is nearly 2-1 in favor of choice, but the vast majority of responses are from those against it.

[Bill E. 676]

1. abortions suck, I wish they didn't exist but they do

2. In cases of rape, serious health issues with the infant, a girl just being too young for such responsibility, etc, those I can

understand using it.

3. late term/partial birth abortions should stay banned. those are just too wrong.

4. If the man disagrees with the woman, have a judge flip a coin. Of course if she listened to me, redtodd wouldn't be here.

5. If you are poor, the gov't can give you a free abortion...BUT you get tied as a consequence.

 

I can agree with most of this. Give the woman a few weeks do decide when she finds out that she is knocked up. Late term abortions should stay banned. Pay for abortions for the poor or we will end up paying welfare to the Mom and baby. The abortion is cheaper.

[Blitzen 0]

I say that if we define human life to begin at conception, we don't have to debate about the legality of abortion. It goes away by itself.

 

Obviously, if you disagree with me on when life begins, you'll disagree with this idea, but I think it covers the major sticky points.

 

In the case where the life of the mother may be threatened, it's a medical circumstance in which there are two people who desperately need care--the doctors and family determine who needs it more.

 

In case of rape or incest, I know it sounds trite, but two wrongs don't make a right. Keep the child.

Also, people who say that abortion is murder but don't think that the government has the right to restrict it are inconsistent unless they're complete anarchists.

 

Something like 50% of all conceptions naturally abort at a really early stage. If there's a god, then surely he must be pro-abortion since he designed us to abort as often as we don't.

 

:popcorn:

[GettnHuge 1]

I can agree with most of this. Give the woman a few weeks do decide when she finds out that she is knocked up. Late term abortions should stay banned. Pay for abortions for the poor or we will end up paying welfare to the Mom and baby. The abortion is cheaper.

 

Hey, wtf is wrong with 6->9?

 

6. aborted fetuses should not be studied for medical benefit, but made into soylent green

7. women's rights organizations should be disbanned until they can find hotter looking members who can take a punch.

8. Kellog and Barr pharmaceuticals combine efforts to put a positive spin on the morning after pill with a revitalization

of the tried and true catchphrase: Leggo my eggo!

9. shup

[KSB2424 3,087]

The world will one day very soon be overpopulated as it is. There will be world wars over fresh water. There will be more garbage dumps than schools. I say let them abort! Save the Earth!

[paulinstl 295]

This is the perfect place for this discussion. You could add the total IQ points of everyone in this thread and still be under par at Augusta National.

[kilroy69 1,039]

This is the perfect place for this discussion. You could add the total IQ points of everyone in this thread and still be under par at Augusta National.

That would include you I assume?

[Mephisto 15]

I'm a nutjob who believes that abortion should be legal, but that men get equal reproductive rights to women. That is to say, with very few exceptions (some already noted) - two people created that pregnancy, it should take agreement of the two to destroy it.

 

Run with that one.

[wiffleball 4,696]

This is the perfect place for this discussion. You could add the total IQ points of everyone in this thread and still be under par at Augusta National.

 

Well, that's about the only way in hell I'd EVER be under par at Augusta.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No takers on the "heartbeat" notion? Seems reasonable to me. If the baby has a heartbeat, doctors aren't allowed to perform an abortion. Seems like a decent compromise to me.

[paulinstl 295]

That would include you I assume?

 

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

This is the perfect place for this discussion. You could add the total IQ points of everyone in this thread and still be under par at Augusta National.

I take extreme offense to this. I will have you know that...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.... oh, look...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.... butterflies.....

[porkbutt 873]

This is the perfect place for this discussion. You could add the total IQ points of everyone in this thread and still be under par at Augusta National.

thanks to the 5 birdies you added

[gocolts 300]

Of course abortion should be illegal. If a woman can be charged with the murder of an unborn child due to drug abuse or other negligent acts then why is it legal to have a doctor off it for them?

 

I'm so sick of hearing it a womans choice. If the woman made the right choices to begin with there wouldn't be all the murders/abortions in the first place!

:pointstosky:

[Savage Beast 1]

but ultimately, at the end of the day, it is her choice.

 

I want to walk around naked at the grocery store, but it's against the law. It's my body, and I should have the right to do with it what I want.

 

If abortion is legal, then public nudity should be legal. I have the right to do with my body as I please.

 

See how stupid and illogical the woman's body argument is.

 

Abortion is legalizing cold blooded murder of an innocent baby no matter how you try to slant it as a mother's body choice. It's not the mother's body that is being cut into pieces and thrown into the biohazard garbage can, it's the babies body being cut up no matter how small the little fellow is in his mother's womb at the time.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I want to walk around naked at the grocery store, but it's against the law. It's my body, and I should have the right to do with it what I want.

 

If abortion is legal, then public nudity should be legal. I have the right to do with my body as I please.

 

See how stupid and illogical the woman's body argument is.

 

Abortion is legalizing cold blooded murder of an innocent baby no matter how you try to slant it as a mother's body choice. It's not the mother's body that is being cut into pieces and thrown into the biohazard garbage can, it's the babies body being cut up no matter how small the little fellow is in his mother's womb at the time.

 

Great point.

 

Can you leave it to the folks that can talk about things with rational thoughts and reasonable expectations? TIA.

[Me_2006 14]

Obviously (and as I said earlier) the entire debate boils down to when you believe life begins. If you think it begins at conception, then abortion is murder and illegal because your rights end where another individual's begin (that's why you can't walk around naked in public, dude). If you believe it begins at birth, then the fetus is the property of the woman carrying it and as it's not a living thing then it's rights arent protected.

 

 

although i find it incredible a woman can be charged with injuring an unborn baby, as long as it's not done by a doctor. Why don't people smoke when they're pregnant? Why can't they just roll down the steps all the time? I don't understand the difference here. Honestly.

[surferskin 30]

speaking of an abortion...real original thread. i guess when you used the search function it only produced a measly 1000 other threads to find what people here think. 1 more will really clarify things.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Obviously (and as I said earlier) the entire debate boils down to when you believe life begins. If you think it begins at conception, then abortion is murder and illegal because your rights end where another individual's begin (that's why you can't walk around naked in public, dude). If you believe it begins at birth, then the fetus is the property of the woman carrying it and as it's not a living thing then it's rights arent protected.

although i find it incredible a woman can be charged with injuring an unborn baby, as long as it's not done by a doctor. Why don't people smoke when they're pregnant? Why can't they just roll down the steps all the time? I don't understand the difference here. Honestly.

 

You are an intelligent kid. You have some thoughts that are insightful, but there are shades of gray that you will see as time goes on.

 

If you are boiling down "when life begins", then you have identified only a couple of possible timelines (conception, birth), but there are other timelines (heartbeat, trimesters, implantation, etc.). However, there are other factors that need to be considered when you are here in the US, such as our Constitution (what is a "person"), our individual state views (Mississippi does not have the same view as New Hampshire), and (more importantly) the rights of the mother, which is one that has (legally) more rights than the unborn child.

 

I hope that you take this issue (or some other) as your own cause and you make it your life ambition to make our lives better by dedicating your intelligence to this cause. Let me know if you decide to do so.

[Savage Beast 1]

Great point.

 

Can you leave it to the folks that can talk about things with rational thoughts and reasonable expectations? TIA.

 

Which is more reasonable my friend?

 

Public nudity or killing children?

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Which is more reasonable my friend?

 

Public nudity or killing children?

 

I love a strawman argument.

 

I will choose that we have neither, because they are not dependent upon each other and I have the ability to REASONABLY prevent both.

 

Let's see which one you choose - having kids have open access to illicit drugs that will kill them or having access to guns with plenty of ammo?

 

You may want to consider that I might be a reasonable person and can make decisions that have basis upon my own beliefs AND those who are in my community.

[kilroy69 1,039]

speaking of an abortion...real original thread. i guess when you used the search function it only produced a measly 1000 other threads to find what people here think. 1 more will really clarify things.

You don't like it. Dont open the focking thread. Now how hard was that? Besides this thread was a spinoff of another thread. So blow me.

[yostevo 0]

No takers on the "heartbeat" notion? Seems reasonable to me. If the baby has a heartbeat, doctors aren't allowed to perform an abortion. Seems like a decent compromise to me.

 

I'm willing to guess that the heartbeat would come well before a lot of moms to be would ever even know they were prego. Women can have erratic periods, be emotional and have swelling breasts for whole lot of different reasons other than just being knocked up.

 

My school of thought is that if a fetus is physically able to survive outside of a womb, then it can't be aborted. Anything before that is a mother's decision to make.

[Savage Beast 1]

I love a strawman argument.

 

I didn't use a strawman argument.

 

I made a point about how absurd the "It's my body to do with as I please" law governing abortion is. If a woman has the right to chose how to use her body under the law in every state wqhen it comes to killing her unborn children, then she must also have the right to sell herself in prostitution in every state, walk around naked if she wants in every state, and masturbate in public in every state. Fair is fair afterall when it comes to a woman's body.

[Me_2006 14]

You are an intelligent kid. You have some thoughts that are insightful, but there are shades of gray that you will see as time goes on.

 

If you are boiling down "when life begins", then you have identified only a couple of possible timelines (conception, birth), but there are other timelines (heartbeat, trimesters, implantation, etc.). However, there are other factors that need to be considered when you are here in the US, such as our Constitution (what is a "person"), our individual state views (Mississippi does not have the same view as New Hampshire), and (more importantly) the rights of the mother, which is one that has (legally) more rights than the unborn child.

 

I hope that you take this issue (or some other) as your own cause and you make it your life ambition to make our lives better by dedicating your intelligence to this cause. Let me know if you decide to do so.

Thanks. Although I'll readily agree that there are shades of gray, I just personally don't think there can be on this issue. If it's allowed for any reason, it's allowed and that's not right IMO. I understand others disagree for thousands of reasons, and even those who agree with me do so for varying purposes, but I just don't think this is one of those compromise issues, although that's the easy route.

 

As of now, I actually plan on dedicating this "intelligence" to teaching other young people and inspiring them to learn and take up causes. Seems more effective than trying to do it all myself. Plus, I get summers off.

[Savage Beast 1]

My school of thought is that if a fetus is physically able to survive outside of a womb, then it can't be aborted. Anything before that is a mother's decision to make.

 

A newborn baby can't live outside of the womb on it's own either. It will die within days if it were to have to fend for itself. A newborn baby is just as dependent on it's mother to survive as a baby inside the womb is.

[Me_2006 14]

I didn't use a strawman argument.

 

I made a point about how absurd the "It's my body to do with as I please" law governing abortion is. If a woman has the right to chose how to use her body under the law in every state wqhen it comes to killing her unborn children, then she must also have the right to sell herself in prostitution in every state, walk around naked if she wants in every state, and masturbate in public in every state. Fair is fair afterall when it comes to a woman's body.

Look, I agree with you on the abortion thing, but this isn't a very solid argument. The reason you can't do those things isnt because it's your body. It's because by doing that you'd infringe on the rights of other people. They would see you naked, etc as it's PUBLIC and it belongs to everyone. You're allowed to do those things in private because at that point, it bothers no one else.

 

While I personally think that a fetus is a person as well, and that you're infringing on it's rights to live by aborting it, there is an argument the opposite way and is what prompted me to say that this entire debate boils down to when you believe life begins.

 

You can think/say/feel what you want, but please try and not make those of us who agree with you look like backwards, close minded idiots by using that kind of argument.

[kilroy69 1,039]

A newborn baby can't live outside of the womb on it's own either. It will die within days if it were to have to fend for itself. A newborn baby is just as dependent on it's mother to survive as a baby inside the womb is.

You know what he was saying yet you choose to offer up a stupid arguement so I will attempt to expand on what he said. When the baby is develped enough to live outside the womb as a human and not a fetus that is depending on its mother.

[Savage Beast 1]

You know what he was saying yet you choose to offer up a stupid arguement so I will attempt to expand on what he said. When the baby is develped enough to live outside the womb as a human and not a fetus that is depending on its mother.

 

So, it's not a "human" fetus then? Is it a dog fetus or a cat fetus? What kind of fetus is it if it's not a human fetus? Thanks.

[kilroy69 1,039]

So, it's not a "human" fetus then? Is it a dog fetus or a cat fetus? What kind of fetus is it if it's not a human fetus? Thanks.

Wow you are smart. I want to be just like you.

 

Like Savage Beast, If I could be like Savage Beast, I wanna be, I wanna be, I wanna be like Savage Beast.

 

Somehow it does not have the same ring to it as "like mike"

[Savage Beast 1]

Wow you are smart. I want to be just like you.

 

Like Savage Beast, If I could be like Savage Beast, I wanna be, I wanna be, I wanna be like Savage Beast.

 

Somehow it does not have the same ring to it as "like mike"

 

You never told me what kind of fetus it is, because you know it's a human fetus, hence it's humanity.

 

The law dehumanizes a fetus, but science and logic do not. A fetus has all of it's chromosomes at conception, hence it's blatant humanity.