Science vs God

[Savage Beast 1]

> Subject: FW: Science vs God

>

>

>

>

> "Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ."

>

> The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and

> then asks one of his new students to stand.

>

> "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

> "Yes sir," the student says.

> "So you believe in God?"

> "Absolutely."

> "Is God good?"

> "Sure! God's good."

> "Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

> "Yes."

> "Are you good or evil?"

> "The Bible says I'm evil."

> The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a

> moment.

> "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and

> you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

> "Yes sir, I would."

> "So you're good...!"

> "I wouldn't say that."

> "But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you

> could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

> The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't,

> does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though

> he prayed to Jesus to heal him How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you

> answer that one?"

> The student remains silent.

> "No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water

> from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

> "Let's start again, young fella Is God good?"

> "Er.yes," the student says.

> "Is Satan good?"

> The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

> "Then where does Satan come from?"

> The student : "From...God..."

> "That's right. God made Satan , didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there

> evil in this world?"

> "Yes, sir. "

> "Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

> "Yes."

> "So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created

> everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according

> to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

> Without allowing the student to answer, the professor continues: "Is

> there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible

> things, do they exist in this world?"

> The student: "Yes."

> "So who created them?"

> The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his

> question. "Who created them? There is still no answer. Suddenly the

> lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is

> mesmerized.

> "Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in

> Jesus Christ, son?"

> The student's voice is confident: "Yes, professor, I do."

> The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use

> to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen

> Jesus?"

> "No sir. I've never seen Him"

> "Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

> "No, sir, I have not."

> "Have you ever actually felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt

> your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ,

> or God for that matter?"

> "No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

> "Yet you still believe in him?"

> "Yes."

> "According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable

> protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to

> that, son?"

> "Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

> "Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science

> has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

> The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of

> his own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

> "Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

> "And is there such a thing as cold?"

> "Yes, son, there's cold too."

> "No sir, there isn't."

> The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The

> room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain.

> "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat,

> unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't

> have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero,

> which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no

> such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the

> lowest -458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study

> when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or

> matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total

> absence of heat.

> You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of

> heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units

> because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just

> the absence of it."

> Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom,

> sounding like a hammer.

> "What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

> "Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it

> isn't darkness?"

> "You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the

> absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright

> light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have

> nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use

> to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would

> be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

> The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This

> will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

> "Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to

> start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

> The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can

> you explain how?"

> "You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains.

> "You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and

> a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite,

> something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.

> It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less

> fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is

> to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive

> thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

> "Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved

> from a monkey?"

> " If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young

> man, yes, of course I do"

> "Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

> The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes

> where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

> "Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and

> cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you

> not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a

> preacher?"

> The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the

> commotion has subsided.

> "To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student,

> let me give you an example of what I mean."

> The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who

> has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into

> laughter.

> "Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt

> the professor's brain, touched or smelled the professor's brain? No

> one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules

> of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you

> have no brain, with all due respect, sir. So if science says you have

> no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

> Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his

> face unreadable.

> Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess

> you'll have to take them on faith."

> "Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with

> life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as

> evil?"

> Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see

> it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man.

> It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world

> These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

> To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it

> does not exist unto it self. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is

> just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe

> the absence of God.

> God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man

> does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold

> that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when

> there is no light."

> The professor sat down.

[FlaHawker 24]

> Subject: FW: Science vs God

>

>

>

>

> "Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ."

>

> The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and

> then asks one of his new students to stand.

>

> "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

> "Yes sir," the student says.

> "So you believe in God?"

> "Absolutely."

> "Is God good?"

> "Sure! God's good."

> "Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

> "Yes."

> "Are you good or evil?"

> "The Bible says I'm evil."

> The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a

> moment.

> "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and

> you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

> "Yes sir, I would."

> "So you're good...!"

> "I wouldn't say that."

> "But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you

> could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

> The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't,

> does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though

> he prayed to Jesus to heal him How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you

> answer that one?"

> The student remains silent.

> "No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water

> from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

> "Let's start again, young fella Is God good?"

> "Er.yes," the student says.

> "Is Satan good?"

> The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

> "Then where does Satan come from?"

> The student : "From...God..."

> "That's right. God made Satan , didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there

> evil in this world?"

> "Yes, sir. "

> "Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

> "Yes."

> "So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created

> everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according

> to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

> Without allowing the student to answer, the professor continues: "Is

> there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible

> things, do they exist in this world?"

> The student: "Yes."

> "So who created them?"

> The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his

> question. "Who created them? There is still no answer. Suddenly the

> lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is

> mesmerized.

> "Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in

> Jesus Christ, son?"

> The student's voice is confident: "Yes, professor, I do."

> The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use

> to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen

> Jesus?"

> "No sir. I've never seen Him"

> "Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

> "No, sir, I have not."

> "Have you ever actually felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt

> your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ,

> or God for that matter?"

> "No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

> "Yet you still believe in him?"

> "Yes."

> "According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable

> protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to

> that, son?"

> "Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

> "Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science

> has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

> The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of

> his own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

> "Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

> "And is there such a thing as cold?"

> "Yes, son, there's cold too."

> "No sir, there isn't."

> The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The

> room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain.

> "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat,

> unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't

> have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero,

> which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no

> such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the

> lowest -458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study

> when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or

> matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total

> absence of heat.

> You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of

> heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units

> because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just

> the absence of it."

> Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom,

> sounding like a hammer.

> "What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

> "Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it

> isn't darkness?"

> "You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the

> absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright

> light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have

> nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use

> to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would

> be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

> The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This

> will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

> "Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to

> start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

> The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can

> you explain how?"

> "You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains.

> "You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and

> a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite,

> something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.

> It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less

> fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is

> to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive

> thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

> "Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved

> from a monkey?"

> " If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young

> man, yes, of course I do"

> "Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

> The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes

> where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

> "Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and

> cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you

> not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a

> preacher?"

> The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the

> commotion has subsided.

> "To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student,

> let me give you an example of what I mean."

> The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who

> has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into

> laughter.

> "Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt

> the professor's brain, touched or smelled the professor's brain? No

> one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules

> of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you

> have no brain, with all due respect, sir. So if science says you have

> no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

> Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his

> face unreadable.

> Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess

> you'll have to take them on faith."

> "Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with

> life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as

> evil?"

> Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see

> it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man.

> It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world

> These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

> To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it

> does not exist unto it self. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is

> just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe

> the absence of God.

> God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man

> does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold

> that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when

> there is no light."

> The professor sat down.

[kpbuckeye 3]

Reminds me of Descartes argument for God. I think therefore I am. Its a circular argument that is flawed, but its still a better one than the crap you just posted.

[listen2me 23 1,871]

[Savage Beast 1]

Reminds me of Descartes argument for God. I think therefore I am. Its a circular argument that is flawed, but its still a better one than the crap you just posted.

 

You are so full of sh!+ and you know it.

[jets24 6]

Meh. I'm a Christian myself but this was mediocre. The professors brain can be seen, through an x-ray or other ways. We know it exists by more than just faith. Consider if Phillybear was in the classroom. He would crack the professor's skull open and show everybody the brain. Argument flawed.

[Gepetto 1,359]

That was a pretty good read.

[Savage Beast 1]

The professors brain can be seen, through an x-ray or other ways.

 

As can God.

[listen2me 23 1,871]

Just as the made up story explains how darkness and cold cannot be proven as real, how did it stregthen the notion that God is real?

[Savage Beast 1]

Just as the made up story explains how darkness and cold cannot be proven as real, how did it stregthen the notion that God is real?

 

It proves that some things in the universe can only be explained and confirmed by faith.

[IronToe Nedney 0]

Who created God?

 

[jets24 6]

Who created God?

 

 

Apparently Obama did.

[naomi 356]

Meh. I'm a Christian myself but this was mediocre. The professors brain can be seen, through an x-ray or other ways. We know it exists by more than just faith. Consider if Phillybear was in the classroom. He would crack the professor's skull open and show everybody the brain. Argument flawed.

 

Without looking at it with an X-ray we'd understand that he has one. It's conceding that we believe stuff outside of what our 5 senses of perception allow us to. Nothing wrong with that, we use reason and deduce without experiencing. It's interesting SB posted this (could do without the inflammatory tone) because I just watched this video expressing much of the point but in a different way.

 

As an aside:

Truth is independent of time, space, and matter, and never changes. It has no location in the physical universe; it exists in the nonphysical realm of the soul and spirit. The indisputable fact that the brain is not the mind, with which we understand truth, provides one of the simplest proofs that we are nonphysical and eternal beings living temporarily in physical bodies. This solemn fact raises a question that most do not like to face. Preferring to give their attention to pleasures and plans related to this temporal world of the five senses, that which is of paramount importance is put off to "a convenient season" (Acts 24:25), which never comes. Every person must answer the great question: Where will my soul and spirit (the real "I" that is my unique self) be when this temporary dwelling in which I have lived these few years lies "moulding in the grave?"

 

To deny the existence of soul and spirit, materialists (which all atheists are) attempt to identify mind and all thought and ideas with the physical brain. Declaring that "materialism is dead," physicist Sir Arthur Eddington proves that fact quite simply:

 

In science...law...means a rule which is never broken....Thus in the physical world what a body does and what a body ought to do are equivalent; but we are well aware of another domain where they are anything but equivalent. We cannot get away from this distinction....The laws of logic do not prescribe the way our minds think; they prescribe the way our minds ought to think....However closely we may associate thought with the physical brain, the connection is dropped as irrelevant as soon as we consider the fundamental property of thought--that it may be correct or incorrect.

 

Regarding consciousness, what physical material there is present in our brain doesn't posses the potential for consciousness in and of itself, and no matter how it's combined together, it doesn't in and of that self produce consciousness. It's been thought that between the matter exists energy and in chorus with the matter what we know as our conscience exists. If energy is it, what we understand about the nature of energy actually favors the argument that we have/are souls- there is something about and amidst us, or perhaps the base us, that does not cease existing when our cells die. I'm not personally going to say soul=energy as we know it, but if that's the main explanation offered, it should keep on keepin on

[Savage Beast 1]

Who created God?

 

 

God is the uncaused first cause.

[TheNewGirl 1,475]

Who created God?

 

 

 

Man.

[NorthernVike 2,083]

Goddammit that's alot of werds.

[FeelingMN 273]

As an aside:

Regarding consciousness, what physical material there is present in our brain doesn't posses the potential for consciousness in and of itself, and no matter how it's combined together, it doesn't in and of that self produce consciousness. It's been thought that between the matter exists energy and in chorus with the matter what we know as our conscience exists. If energy is it, what we understand about the nature of energy actually favors the argument that we have/are souls- there is something about and amidst us, or perhaps the base us, that does not cease existing when our cells die. I'm not personally going to say soul=energy as we know it, but if that's the main explanation offered, it should keep on keepin on

 

Just wondering how you would then explain how anasthesia works, or the variety of psychotropics operate? Would you agree these things alter consciousness? And if so, are you implying that they produce their effect directly on the soul while bypassing the actual matter that constitutes the central nervous system.

 

There'd be no soul if Plato hadn't thought of it first.

 

Just out of curiousity, how can you substantiate the bolded statement?

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 40]

This argument is so flawed on so many levels I don't know where to start but I will. The brain comments are simply stupid (obviously he has a brain as he is mobile, can communicate etc.) and the cold part is just ignorant (absolute cold exists when atoms no longer function as electrons orbiting protons and neutrons).

 

This bs includes no science what so ever.

[Brad GLuckman 519]

Here's my issue with God...well actually Christianity since that is what I've been exposed to most my life:

 

I consider myself a good person. I have flaws, but overall I'm a nice guy. I'll open a door for an old lady, I'll drop everything and help a buddy out if he asks, I'll give money to the salvation army people ringing the bell etc. Now, I don't believe in God. I wish there was one. I would like there to be an afterlife and stuff. But I'm a very skeptical person, I need proof to believe ANYTHING. So naturally I would need proof to believe there is a god. So because of my absence of faith, I am going to Hell.

 

Then there is some guy in prison. He raped and murdered twenty women. But one day in Prison he "found" Jesus. He realized what he did was wrong and asked Jesus forgiveness. Despite the fact her raped and murdered 20 women, he is going to heaven becauase he is a "believer".

 

Now that is just insane. But to make matters worse...God made me the way I am, right? God made me to be a person who will not blindly follow anything, not just when it comes to religion. I need proof for any kind of major decision. So why would God punish me and send me to hell? He made me into the type of person who would not believe.

 

Now I don't know about all types of Christianity. But the church my friend goes to...well he believes I'm going to hell and the murderer isnt. To me, that's just crazy. And anyone who doesn't see how crazy that is...doesn't want to see it.

 

I would like to add I'm not here to bash Christianity or anything like that. I come from a religious family, and I think it's ridiculous how "anti-religion" this country has become. But just for me personally...I don't get it

[naomi 356]

Just wondering how you would then explain how anasthesia works, or the variety of psychotropics operate? Would you agree these things alter consciousness? And if so, are you implying that they produce their effect directly on the soul while bypassing the actual matter that constitutes the central nervous system.

 

There'd be no soul if Plato hadn't thought of it first.

 

Just out of curiousity, how can you substantiate the bolded statement?

 

How we're aware of ourselves and our surroundings can definitely be skewed and distorted, but the awareness itself is still there. I think the best mind-body state that seems to challenge the thought is being in a coma. Our physical state can mediate our consciousness, but it's not the same as producing it. When someone pricks you, you feel that they've pricked you and not just all the parts of you that directly experienced a feeling. It suggests there's more there with the knowledge of the effect on you than your brain activation. It's an awareness of your being, your spirit wasn't pricked, but the fact you can tell that it wasn't suggests another dimension to you. In this body we directly identify with it happening by what our senses sense, but the capability to identify that as of us isn't generated in the physical events.

 

Soul can be called what it may by name, but the thought of an aspect of our nature that doesn't cease when our body quits is what I mean.

[IGotWorms 4,057]

naomi is talking about pricks!

[Eagles Green 34]

As can God.

Link??

[phillybear 366]

Now that is just insane. But to make matters worse...God made me the way I am, right? God made me to be a person who will not blindly follow anything, not just when it comes to religion. I need proof for any kind of major decision. So why would God punish me and send me to hell? He made me into the type of person who would not believe.

 

Nope. Free will.

 

Geez. Just watch The Devil's Advocate. Pacino spells it out.

[tikigods 76]

God won this thread.

 

Over.

[Blitzen 0]

I've been on here for close to a decade and I have never seen any of these threads convince anyone to change their views.

 

P.O.I.N.T.L.E.S.S.

[Blitzen 0]

Abortion clinics are evildoers because they kill foetuses.

 

The human body natural aborts over 50% of conceptions and is therefore evil.

 

God Created the human body in his image and is also therefore evil because the bastage designed it to kill more babies than it bears to term. Oh the humanity.

[edjr 6,580]

Man.

 

God was created to keep dumb people in line.

[Snoopy1 0]

This argument is so flawed on so many levels I don't know where to start but I will. The brain comments are simply stupid (obviously he has a brain as he is mobile, can communicate etc.) and the cold part is just ignorant (absolute cold exists when atoms no longer function as electrons orbiting protons and neutrons).

 

This bs includes no science what so ever.

 

I guess the professor got his degree from Oral Roberts.

[ZeroTolerance 584]

Here's my issue with God...well actually Christianity since that is what I've been exposed to most my life:

 

I consider myself a good person. I have flaws, but overall I'm a nice guy. I'll open a door for an old lady, I'll drop everything and help a buddy out if he asks, I'll give money to the salvation army people ringing the bell etc. Now, I don't believe in God. I wish there was one. I would like there to be an afterlife and stuff. But I'm a very skeptical person, I need proof to believe ANYTHING. So naturally I would need proof to believe there is a god. So because of my absence of faith, I am going to Hell.

 

Then there is some guy in prison. He raped and murdered twenty women. But one day in Prison he "found" Jesus. He realized what he did was wrong and asked Jesus forgiveness. Despite the fact her raped and murdered 20 women, he is going to heaven becauase he is a "believer".

 

Now that is just insane. But to make matters worse...God made me the way I am, right? God made me to be a person who will not blindly follow anything, not just when it comes to religion. I need proof for any kind of major decision. So why would God punish me and send me to hell? He made me into the type of person who would not believe.

 

Now I don't know about all types of Christianity. But the church my friend goes to...well he believes I'm going to hell and the murderer isnt. To me, that's just crazy. And anyone who doesn't see how crazy that is...doesn't want to see it.

 

I would like to add I'm not here to bash Christianity or anything like that. I come from a religious family, and I think it's ridiculous how "anti-religion" this country has become. But just for me personally...I don't get it

A child focker born in the US in a christian family has a better chance of salvation than an incredibly moral, upstanding citizen of a country that does not practice Christianity based religions. Seriously, if this is the basis of someone's religion then I don't want to worship such a being.

[Brad GLuckman 519]

A child focker born in the US in a christian family has a better chance of salvation than an incredibly moral, upstanding citizen of a country that does not practice Christianity based religions. Seriously, if this is the basis of someone's religion then I don't want to worship such a being.

 

I have a very religious friend. We don't talk religion often, but I asked him about this, about all the moral upstanding people all around the world who happen to have been born in a place where Christianity is just not practiced.

 

His answer? -------->Missionaries are all over the world.

 

I was going to explain there are places where missionaires haven't visited...but I thought if that was his answer...what's the point?

I mean in reality, people practice the faith their parents practiced, It's just how it is. Maybe not ALL people, but most. You are more likely to be a Christian if you were born in America than you if you were born in Pakistan. That's just the way it is.

 

So it's really just luck for the most part. Hopefully the religion that your region practices got it right. Because if youre region was wrong...well it's an eternity of hell for everyone there. (except the ones the missionaries converted)

[jets24 6]

 

God was created to keep dumb people in line.

 

How proud TNG must be to have edjr support her statement.

[FeelingMN 273]

How we're aware of ourselves and our surroundings can definitely be skewed and distorted, but the awareness itself is still there. I think the best mind-body state that seems to challenge the thought is being in a coma. Our physical state can mediate our consciousness, but it's not the same as producing it. When someone pricks you, you feel that they've pricked you and not just all the parts of you that directly experienced a feeling. It suggests there's more there with the knowledge of the effect on you than your brain activation. It's an awareness of your being, your spirit wasn't pricked, but the fact you can tell that it wasn't suggests another dimension to you. In this body we directly identify with it happening by what our senses sense, but the capability to identify that as of us isn't generated in the physical events.

 

Soul can be called what it may by name, but the thought of an aspect of our nature that doesn't cease when our body quits is what I mean.

 

 

I just think it's overly egocentric of us to think there's something truly special about our inner selves. So special that it defies the laws of physics. By your rationale, the matter that constitutes ourselves is not sufficient to produce consciousness. There must be some other force at play able to produce that uniquely subjective quality. And yet, where else in the Universe does this happen? Gravity does not exist as a thing per se, but is generated by massive amounts of matter. Electormagnetic energy is not a concrete thing, as a tree or a car is, but it exists and is produced through the movements of subatomic matter. And in the example above, all Heat is is the movement of atoms. All these qualities, while not existing in and of themselves, are produced through the interactions of matter at some level. Consciousness is no different. It emerges from the matter that constitutes our nervous systems.

 

The notion of a soul just doesn't jive with me. First of all, the concept itself was borrowed from the Platonic essence. Plato asserted that there was a distinction between the tangible, concrete world and the world of forms. Thus we have souls. And that idea, the idea we continue in some form after our earthly life ends, is more comforting than the idea that oblivion awaits us.

 

So what happens when we die? And I'm comfortable with leaving it at that. The whole soul/afterlife issue seems to be an idea meant to console than actually describe what takes place in reality. As this is one of the major aims of all religions, provide the comfort of certainty in a reality which has the foundation of pure chaos, I cannot simply believe in it.

 

And for the record, I don't think you're wrong in believing what you do. I think it's absolutley alright to hold disparate views of reality. If only the uber religious adopted the same view.

 

Here's a good essay by Tom Wolfe that deals with a lot of what's being discussed here:

 

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles/WolfeSoulDied.php

[TheNewGirl 1,475]

How proud TNG must be to have edjr support her statement.

 

 

He may share my statement, but I do NOT believe that man created God to keep dumb people in line.

[listen2me 23 1,871]

It proves that some things in the universe can only be explained and confirmed by faith.

 

Its not like people are keeping faith that darkness is real. Their very lives don't depend on the idea of heat and other things that can only me imagined.

[phillybear 366]

I do not believe in heat. There, I said. Heat does not exist. Shall I be smoten. Nay, I dost not believeth so.

 

I also do not believe in the sun. Nobody has ever seen a big orange orb in the sky. It's a legend. But I'll tell you what. If I ever get my hands on that piece of sh!t, I'll choke the life out of it.

[listen2me 23 1,871]

Here's my issue with God...well actually Christianity since that is what I've been exposed to most my life:

 

I consider myself a good person. I have flaws, but overall I'm a nice guy. I'll open a door for an old lady, I'll drop everything and help a buddy out if he asks, I'll give money to the salvation army people ringing the bell etc. Now, I don't believe in God. I wish there was one. I would like there to be an afterlife and stuff. But I'm a very skeptical person, I need proof to believe ANYTHING. So naturally I would need proof to believe there is a god. So because of my absence of faith, I am going to Hell.

 

Then there is some guy in prison. He raped and murdered twenty women. But one day in Prison he "found" Jesus. He realized what he did was wrong and asked Jesus forgiveness. Despite the fact her raped and murdered 20 women, he is going to heaven becauase he is a "believer".

 

Now that is just insane. But to make matters worse...God made me the way I am, right? God made me to be a person who will not blindly follow anything, not just when it comes to religion. I need proof for any kind of major decision. So why would God punish me and send me to hell? He made me into the type of person who would not believe.

 

Now I don't know about all types of Christianity. But the church my friend goes to...well he believes I'm going to hell and the murderer isnt. To me, that's just crazy. And anyone who doesn't see how crazy that is...doesn't want to see it.

 

I would like to add I'm not here to bash Christianity or anything like that. I come from a religious family, and I think it's ridiculous how "anti-religion" this country has become. But just for me personally...I don't get it

 

Me too. Some of the best people I know do not have any one religion and don't believe in God. Some of the worst, cranky, selfish people attend church every week and call themselves Christians.

 

Its backwards. And Christianity as a whole is insecure in trying to strap everyone down and basically saying you get a lollipop if you do as I say.

[IronToe Nedney 0]

Man.

 

 

oh, ok. Thanks.

[RLLD 4,207]

You are so full of sh!+ and you know it.

 

Not at all, the circulus in demonstrando is a well known logical fallacy used in debate forum around the world. The Muslim extremists have emerged as the most effective administrators of this approach. While it is most often used in religious debate, as demonstrated above, this approach is used in deliberations all the time.

 

At it's core is human nature, but some can use this most basic of human flaws to their advantage and these individuals can usually be found in madrassas, used car lots, and churches.

[IronToe Nedney 0]

Not at all, the circulus in demonstrando is a well known logical fallacy used in debate forum around the world. The Muslim extremists have emerged as the most effective administrators of this approach. While it is most often used in religious debate, as demonstrated above, this approach is used in deliberations all the time.

 

At it's core is human nature, but some can use this most basic of human flaws to their advantage and these individuals can usually be found in madrassas, used car lots, and churches.

 

You forgot... "opiate for the masses"

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

 

God was created to keep dumb people in line.

 

God is to grown men and women what Santa Claus is to small children.

 

Ever used Santa to get a kid to behave? You know the ole "Santa is watching you, and if you aren't good, he'll bring you coal instead of toys."

 

People have been using God the same way for millenia. "God is watching you. If you don't believe in him, give him your money, and follow his rules that we set out in this extremely vauge book, he will send you to hell."

 

It never ceases to amaze and sicken me how many people fall for that crap.

 

God =