My Problem with Trans Jenner

[Fumbleweed 554]

Well your question is invalid in light of your conceasion. Can I point to one true code as the basis for my value judgments? No. And neither can you. You think you have one but that's the only difference

 

Yes, I do have something concrete. You do not. That's the difference. You may find my concrete source invalid or irrelevant, but when I look for answers to questions that I have, I do turn to something. From what I can tell, you don't. Maybe you just turn to a collection of things, but that collection will ultimately contradict itself. I believe in absolute truth. I may not know what that absolute truth is exactly, but it exists just the same. There is absolute truth out there when it comes to all the things within us and around us.

[vuduchile 1,945]

 

So, people just instinctively know right from wrong? Based on what? And where does that instinct come from? Who provided it?

 

I think part of what you're saying is correct. But, I would say that is something instilled in you by a creator. How else do you suppose it gets there? Like you, I am not busting balls. I just think that innate sense is pretty cool...but it didn't just come from nothing. Where do emotions come from? Where does that intense love you feel when you're tucking your kids in their beds at night come from?

I think you're on the right path. Human emotions are a powerful and wonderful thing. I can't get on board with all that being a one in a zillion chance accident.

[tanatastic 2,062]

Religeon was invented as a way to manipulate the stupid. Funny that even today its still doing the same thing, and to smart people even in some cases. altho I can never truly call someone who belives in any form or religeon to be smart. since it goes against clear, CLEAR evidence that simply proves that religeon doesnt exist. Like plain as day, there it is, sun is hot, water is wet evidence that billions still shake their head at and deny.

 

Ill say it again. If you believe in any form of religeon, of wich there are 1000s or more that all say theirs is the only one....you are completely, utterly and totally stupid. Yes, I mean you.

[Fumbleweed 554]

Religeon was invented as a way to manipulate the stupid. Funny that even today its still doing the same thing, and to smart people even in some cases. altho I can never truly call someone who belives in any form or religeon to be smart. since it goes against clear, CLEAR evidence that simply proves that religeon doesnt exist. Like plain as day, there it is, sun is hot, water is wet evidence that billions still shake their head at and deny.

 

Ill say it again. If you believe in any form of religeon, of wich there are 1000s or more that all say theirs is the only one....you are completely, utterly and totally stupid. Yes, I mean you.

 

What are you referring to exactly? Religion exists. Do you mean diety doesn't exist? How can you be so sure?

[MDC 7,652]

The intolerance of the self proclaimed tolerant always blows me away.

I've noticed this habit on the board of conservatives saying patently bigoted things, like comparing a trans to a sex criminal. Then when people like me call this line of thinking out for what it is, these same conservatives cry about "intolerance."

 

Tolerance and free speech is a 2 way street. Cons are free to have whatever social beliefs they want, no matter how retarded I may find them. And I am free to point out the retardedness of those beliefs.

 

The only people sobbing about intolerance at FFT seem to be Repubtards who think they have a right to say dumb things without any response?

 

I suggest these folks get a thicker layer of skin.

[KSB2424 3,153]

Religeon was invented as a way to manipulate the stupid. Funny that even today its still doing the same thing, and to smart people even in some cases. altho I can never truly call someone who belives in any form or religeon to be smart. since it goes against clear, CLEAR evidence that simply proves that religeon doesnt exist. Like plain as day, there it is, sun is hot, water is wet evidence that billions still shake their head at and deny.

 

Ill say it again. If you believe in any form of religeon, of wich there are 1000s or more that all say theirs is the only one....you are completely, utterly and totally stupid. Yes, I mean you.

 

As a person that struggles with religion, has swayed back and forth over my 39 years on this planet, that if I had to check a box right now would probably check the Agnostic box, I find your post the most absurd as of yet.

 

To be honest, I have no idea the answer to life's biggest question. How did we get here?

 

It seems you know for certain and anyone who thinks otherwise is "stupid". Interesting.

[ocramfan 0]

Jenner is gay

 

He will not end up getting his cack fileted

 

He will end up with men within a year

 

G'nite

[IGotWorms 4,060]

 

Yes, I do have something concrete. You do not. That's the difference. You may find my concrete source invalid or irrelevant, but when I look for answers to questions that I have, I do turn to something. From what I can tell, you don't. Maybe you just turn to a collection of things, but that collection will ultimately contradict itself. I believe in absolute truth. I may not know what that absolute truth is exactly, but it exists just the same. There is absolute truth out there when it comes to all the things within us and around us.

And that's fine but you're truth holds no more sway than anyone else's. Frankly it is extremely arrogant of you to suggest otherwise

[Eaglesin14 12]

RP trolling a thread? Never.

Didn't he claim last weke that he does not derail other threads?

Oof

link to what?

Him derailing?

Well...Id say what frank has quoted of him admitting he is not even posting about the topic and is just following him around is pretty much an admission.

If you want a link to him stating he does not do that...didn't you go through this with him last week?

I don't talk to the guy other than once or twice a month.

But he won't go away...that much has been established often.

 

Good job staying on topic. Wouldn't want you derailing the thread.

[Reality 3,121]

I've noticed this habit on the board of conservatives saying patently bigoted things, like comparing a trans to a sex criminal. Then when people like me call this line of thinking out for what it is, these same conservatives cry about "intolerance."

 

Tolerance and free speech is a 2 way street. Cons are free to have whatever social beliefs they want, no matter how retarded I may find them. And I am free to point out the retardedness of those beliefs.

 

The only people sobbing about intolerance at FFT seem to be Repubtards who think they have a right to say dumb things without any response?

 

I suggest these folks get a thicker layer of skin.

 

Just pointing out that nobody seems to be truly tolerant. Even those who claim to be.

 

Sorry that bothers you. Hypocrisy is a demon we all battle I guess.

[NewbieJr 541]

RP trolling a thread? Never.

Didn't he claim last weke that he does not derail other threads?

Oof

I guess since no one would fetch a link of him doing it, he decided to remind everyone.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

 

As a person that struggles with religion, has swayed back and forth over my 39 years on this planet, that if I had to check a box right now would probably check the Agnostic box, I find your post the most absurd as of yet.

 

To be honest, I have no idea the answer to life's biggest question. How did we get here?

 

It seems you know for certain and anyone who thinks otherwise is "stupid". Interesting.

tanatastic's approach is just as arrogant as fumbleweed's. No you don't know that there isn't a higher power just as fumble cannot assert that he follows the one true God

[Sho Nuff 720]

 

Just pointing out that nobody seems to be truly tolerant. Even those who claim to be.

 

Sorry that bothers you. Hypocrisy is a demon we all battle I guess.

 

where are others being so intolerant?

mocking bigotry? pretty poor example and not really hypocritical at all

[Fumbleweed 554]

And that's fine but you're truth holds no more sway than anyone else's. Frankly it is extremely arrogant of you to suggest otherwise

 

You're inferring something here that has not been said. Calling it concrete (which it is) does not suggest more sway. It suggests that it has a concrete foundation rather than one that is arbitrary.

[Eaglesin14 12]

I guess since no one would fetch a link of him doing it, he decided to remind everyone.

 

I started by commenting on a post by Frank where he commented on someone else's post. But ya know, it would only be me who is derailing the thread.

 

Good job staying on topic.

[Fumbleweed 554]

tanatastic's approach is just as arrogant as fumbleweed's. No you don't know that there isn't a higher power just as fumble cannot assert that he follows the one true God

 

Where does this perceived arrogance come from? What exactly have I said that was arrogant? Please tell me.

[Reality 3,121]

 

where are others being so intolerant?

mocking bigotry? pretty poor example and not really hypocritical at all

 

 

Mocking people's beliefs, happens daily here. Strange to have to point it out.

[parrot 789]

 

Maybe I missed it but I don't recall anyone saying that. There would be some sort of morality, some sort of "order" but really, who knows what that would be to be honest. We can't really go back in time and get the toothpaste back in the tubes. What we can do and probably the best thing we can do is look at different countries, different religions (of which their morality is different).

 

The most basic morals seem basic human nature in theory. Don't kill thy neighbor. Don't steal. However the grey areas is what we are talking about here. Islamic countries has a slightly different version of morality. I'm sure African Tribes with little touch from the outside wourld have their own taboo's that are wholly different then ours. They may think raping 12 year old girls is just okay and dandy as thats the way its always been. etc. etc.

 

 

 

Fumble - "if there is no real authoritative standard, then there is no real right or wrong..."

 

 

The argument is that the bible is the FOUNDATION for our morals and things are immoral because the bible says they are immoral. Ergo, no bible, no divine word of God, no morality or immorality. It is a silly argument, but it is made regularly by the religious.

 

Now maybe this isn't exactly the position that Fumble is pushing, but he's definitely suggesting that when we run into these "grey areas" we should consult the 2000 year old text rather than our own collective reason and conscience. I don't much care for that view.

[Fumbleweed 554]

 

The argument is that the bible is the FOUNDATION for our morals and things are immoral because the bible says they are immoral. Ergo, no bible, no divine word of God, no morality or immorality. It is a silly argument, but it is made regularly.

 

Now maybe this isn't exactly the position that Fumble is pushing, but he's definitely suggesting that when we run into these "grey areas" we should consult the 2000 year old text rather than our own collective reason and conscience. I don't much care for that view.

 

What form should collective reason and conscience take? And, where in the world does conscience come from?

[IGotWorms 4,060]

 

You're inferring something here that has not been said. Calling it concrete (which it is) does not suggest more sway. It suggests that it has a concrete foundation rather than one that is arbitrary.

But it is arbitrary. Why not one of the other many religions out there? Why not a different brand of Christianity with a different interpretation of the Bible? Because you arbitrarily picked one.

[MDC 7,652]

 

Just pointing out that nobody seems to be truly tolerant. Even those who claim to be.

 

Sorry that bothers you. Hypocrisy is a demon we all battle I guess.

Not sure I see the hypocrisy here. Did somebody say you're not allowed to voice your ignorant opinions? No.

 

The problem appears to be your thensthitivity.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

 

Where does this perceived arrogance come from? What exactly have I said that was arrogant? Please tell me.

That your opinion somehow holds sway because you think it's backed by the one truly holy text. It's arrogant because there are many othet sets of beliefs out there--some religious, some otherwise--and yet you think you hold the keys to the one true set

[Fumbleweed 554]

But it is arbitrary. Why not one of the other many religions out there? Why not a different brand of Christianity with a different interpretation of the Bible? Because you arbitrarily picked one.

 

I didn't choose it out of a hat. To explain it to you would take a long time, but it is extremely well developed and reinforced over time.

 

My point was that I do have a source. Something I reference. That's all I'm saying here. There is nothing arrogant about proclaiming that to be true.

[Sho Nuff 720]

 

 

Mocking people's beliefs, happens daily here. Strange to have to point it out.

 

So you bad logic is that mocking = intolerance of those beliefs?

 

I don't think anyone here has a problem if someone else wants to believe in God or Jesus.

They are not intolerant of that.

[Fumbleweed 554]

That your opinion somehow holds sway because you think it's backed by the one truly holy text. It's arrogant because there are many othet sets of beliefs out there--some religious, some otherwise--and yet you think you hold the keys to the one true set

 

Of course I think that I am following the true God. But, I never said it "holds sway". What is it about sharing that belief that is arrogant? Not a darn thing. It is my belief. There is no arrogance in the belief. Only confidence and assurance established over a long period of time.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

 

I didn't choose it out of a hat. To explain it to you would take a long time, but it is extremely well developed and reinforced over time.

I don't choose my beliefs out of a hat either. They've been developed over my lifetime thus far and are constantly reflected upon and reevaluated where they've appeared wrong. It seems your brag is that you have some external inflexible standard that tells you what to think. Congrats on that I guess

[IGotWorms 4,060]

 

Of course I think that I am following the true God. But, I never said it "holds sway". What is it about sharing that belief that is arrogant? Not a darn thing. It is my belief. There is no arrogance in the belief. Only confidence and assurance established over a long period of time.

The arrogance lies not in having beliefs but that in saying a divine power has essentially blessed your beliefs as true over all others. Is that an inaccurate statement of your approach to this matter?

[vuduchile 1,945]

 

The argument is that the bible is the FOUNDATION for our morals and things are immoral because the bible says they are immoral. Ergo, no bible, no divine word of God, no morality or immorality. It is a silly argument, but it is made regularly.

 

Now maybe this isn't exactly the position that Fumble is pushing, but he's definitely suggesting that when we run into these "grey areas" we should consult the 2000 year old text rather than our own collective reason and conscience. I don't much care for that view.

Fumble doesn't need me to defend him here, but I don't feel like he's pushing anything. He has posited that our collective reason and conscience have an origin of some sort, and asked what we think the origin is.

 

It could be anything from religious text to "that's the way my grandma taught me", but it started somewhere. He also asserted that one's inherent feelings of right and wrong could be derived from a creator.

[Fumbleweed 554]

I don't choose my beliefs out of a hat either. They've been developed over my lifetime thus far and are constantly reflected upon and reevaluated where they've appeared wrong. It seems your brag is that you have some external inflexible standard that tells you what to think. Congrats on that I guess

 

Again, there is no "brag" here. You are totally reading that into it based on your own biases. I never said you chose your beliefs out of a hat. You called mine arbitray and I clarified.

 

I really think there is some pretty deep-seeded stuff in you that keeps extracting inferences that simply aren't there. A basketball player who has confidence in his abilities to play basketball is not arrogant. I have confidence in my beliefs. That does not make me arrogant in any way, shape, or form. It just doesn't. Doesn't mean I have everything figured out. Of course I don't. Nobody does. But, I do have confidence in the foundation of what I believe. There is simply nothing arrogant about that. If we're going to turn confidence/assurance into arrogance, then arrogance becomes something else entirely.

[DankNuggs 305]

Religeon was invented as a way to manipulate the stupid. Funny that even today its still doing the same thing, and to smart people even in some cases. altho I can never truly call someone who belives in any form or religeon to be smart. since it goes against clear, CLEAR evidence that simply proves that religeon doesnt exist. Like plain as day, there it is, sun is hot, water is wet evidence that billions still shake their head at and deny.

 

Ill say it again. If you believe in any form of religeon, of wich there are 1000s or more that all say theirs is the only one....you are completely, utterly and totally stupid. Yes, I mean you.

That isn't true at all... the basic tenets of most religions are all the same and they talk about living a decent rewarding life of helping others and doing no harm... Nothing wrong with that.

 

 

There is no evidence to discredit the idea of the unmoved mover...

[IGotWorms 4,060]

 

Again, there is no "brag" here. You are totally reading that into it based on your own biases. I never said you chose your beliefs out of a hat. You called mine arbitray and I clarified.

Well now you're just being disingenuous. You clearly implied that all non-faith based beliefs are arbitrary. In fact that is pretty much the entire premise of your argument, is it not?

[parrot 789]

Fumble doesn't need me to defend him here, but I don't feel like he's pushing anything. He has posited that our collective reason and conscience have an origin of some sort, and asked what we think the origin is.

 

It could be anything from religious text to "that's the way my grandma taught me", but it started somewhere. He also asserted that one's inherent feelings of right and wrong could be derived from a creator.

 

He says we need an "authoritative standard". I don't think grandma is the authority he is referring to.

[Fumbleweed 554]

The arrogance lies not in having beliefs but that in saying a divine power has essentially blessed your beliefs as true over all others. Is that an inaccurate statement of your approach to this matter?

 

I believe that God has blessed my life, not my beliefs. I am humbled by what God has provided me from my perspective. Jesus said that he was the way, truth, and the life and that no one comes to God except through him. That doesn't leave me with a whole lot of options. I either think he's lying, a nut job, or I have to accept that to be true. Being a Christian doesn't allow for the option of plurality. I'm not going to beat anyone over the head with what I believe, but I don't mind asking people questions that make them think. And, my perspectives on things do evolve. I don't believe exactly what I believed 2, 5, or 10 years ago based on further study and life experiences.

 

Again, I don't see how a person having peace and assurance about what they believe equates to arrogance. That's absurd.

[Fumbleweed 554]

 

He says we need an "authoritative standard". I don't think grandma is the authority he is referring to.

 

If Grandma wrote a book about how to live, that would indeed be an authoritative standard, would it not? That is something concrete. If I say I live my life based on instructions written out for me by my grandmother, that is something concrete.

[Fumbleweed 554]

Well now you're just being disingenuous. You clearly implied that all non-faith based beliefs are arbitrary. In fact that is pretty much the entire premise of your argument, is it not?

 

No, I said that arbitrary is the opposite of concrete. Again, if your atheist grandmother wrote a book about how to live and you follow it, you are not following something arbitrary, but concrete. It matters not whether it's faith based.

[tanatastic 2,062]

 

What are you referring to exactly? Religion exists. Do you mean diety doesn't exist? How can you be so sure?

Im referring to any and all forms of religeon and higher power. Allah, jesus, buddha, none of them are real and its all entirely make believe. Could there be a god that created the universe? Yes of course, something had to, so that seems within reason altho still a far stretch. But thats where it ends. theres no involvement or governing body to god. There is no heaven or hell, or angels or devils, none of it. there is simply what is here that we can see and touch and the science we use to figure out how life works. Noah couldnt possibly fit all those animals on the ark, dinosaurs existed so the earth cant be only 10k years old like they say. I could go on and on pointing out blatant facts that completely nullify the bible and therefore the entirety of christianity. If I knew more about other religeons I could do the same.

 

Im fine with people simply using religeon as a guide for life and a reason to believe in something that doesnt have to be so serious or real, I get that. But those people also have to admit that its not to be taken literally and its just for fun or to stay sane or to keep hope or whatever.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

 

No, I said that arbitrary is the opposite of concrete. Again, if your atheist grandmother wrote a book about how to live and you follow it, you are not following something arbitrary, but concrete. It matters not whether it's faith based.

So it's just a matter of putting pen to paper? If I sat down and wrote out all of my own beliefs and then followed that for the rest of my life no matter what, that would satisfy your requirements?

[IGotWorms 4,060]

Im referring to any and all forms of religeon and higher power. Allah, jesus, buddha, none of them are real and its all entirely make believe. Could there be a god that created the universe? Yes of course, something had to, so that seems within reason altho still a far stretch. But thats where it ends. theres no involvement or governing body to god. There is no heaven or hell, or angels or devils, none of it. there is simply what is here that we can see and touch and the science we use to figure out how life works. Noah couldnt possibly fit all those animals on the ark, dinosaurs existed so the earth cant be only 10k years old like they say. I could go on and on pointing out blatant facts that completely nullify the bible and therefore the entirety of christianity. If I knew more about other religeons I could do the same.

 

Im fine with people simply using religeon as a guide for life and a reason to believe in something that doesnt have to be so serious or real, I get that. But those people also have to admit that its not to be taken literally and its just for fun or to stay sane or to keep hope or whatever.

Just because the Bible is not literally true (sorry naomi if you're reading this, it's just not) doesn't mean that everyone with any form of religious beliefs is "stupid"

[tanatastic 2,062]

So it's just a matter of putting pen to paper? If I sat down and wrote out all of my own beliefs and then followed that for the rest of my life no matter what, that would satisfy your requirements?

You could invent your own and make into a legit religeon like L Ron hubbard did with scientology. Think about that...actual living people, millions of them...believe in his writings the same as the most devout christioans or muslims believe in theirs. Its mind boggling.

[tanatastic 2,062]

Just because the Bible is not literally true (sorry naomi if you're reading this, it's just not) doesn't mean that everyone with any form of religious beliefs is "stupid"

I agree, Stupid might be too broad a term. But "completely delusional and oblivious to something that is obviously the case." is what im trying to convey here.