My Problem with Trans Jenner

[Jetdoc 20]

I could go on and on pointing out blatant facts that completely nullify the bible and therefore the entirety of christianity.

 

After 2,015 years, you are the one person that holds the key to debunking religion and have all of the answers (and evidence no doubt!) to why Christianity does not, and should not exist. And you've been hiding on a fantasy football message board this entire time.

 

I am honored to have met you. Please explain, in elaborate detail, how you reached your conclusions and please publish the sources of your evidence.

 

I'm sure the unwashed, stupid masses would like to be enlighted by your wisdom.

[Fumbleweed 554]

So it's just a matter of putting pen to paper? If I sat down and wrote out all of my own beliefs and then followed that for the rest of my life no matter what, that would satisfy your requirements?

 

I don't think it can come from us. Our beliefs are not formulated in a vaccum. They are formulated from sources outside of ourself. Certainly, they are not based on "feelings". Feelings are very arbitrary and change constantly.

[KSB2424 3,153]

tanatastic's approach is just as arrogant as fumbleweed's. No you don't know that there isn't a higher power just as fumble cannot assert that he follows the one true God

 

I don't wholly disagree, but there is only one of them calling those that don't agree with them "Stupid" and being overtly condeseneding.. Just sayin'

[porkbutt 897]

 

After 2,015 years, you are the one person that holds the key to debunking religion and have all of the answers (and evidence no doubt!) to why Christianity does not, and should not exist. And you've been hiding on a fantasy football message board this entire time.

 

I am honored to have met you. Please explain, in elaborate detail, how you reached your conclusions and please publish the sources of your evidence.

 

I'm sure the unwashed, stupid masses would like to be enlighted by your wisdom.

nailed it

[IGotWorms 4,060]

 

I don't wholly disagree, but there is only one of them calling those that don't agree with them "Stupid" and being overtly condeseneding.. Just sayin'

True

[tanatastic 2,062]

 

After 2,015 years, you are the one person that holds the key to debunking religion and have all of the answers (and evidence no doubt!) to why Christianity does not, and should not exist. And you've been hiding on a fantasy football message board this entire time.

 

I am honored to have met you. Please explain, in elaborate detail, how you reached your conclusions and please publish the sources of your evidence.

 

I'm sure the unwashed, stupid masses would like to be enlighted by your wisdom.

Actually your pretty spot on, I actually do feel this way. This is also what is so mind numbing about it. Its been driven into our heads for 2k years so people are too afraid to go against it. It slike if for 2k years we taught our kids that 1+1 is 3, they would eventually believe it despite clear evidence that it isnt. Thats the beauty of debunking religeon, theres so much evidence and proof that it cant even be quantified. Dinosaurs? Carbon dating? Remember, if you debunk 1 word of the bible, you debunk all of it. they say earth is 10k years old...It simply aint. Fossils, dinosaurs, carbon dating, proof of evolution over millions of years, I could go on all day/year...there, iv done it..iv debunked it, you can now safely stop believing in it, iv helped you. Theres no picking and choosing, its either 100% true or 0%. If you can look me in the internet eye and tell me that you think the earth is only 10k years old and all of our carbon dating, evidence, fossils are all just a conspiracy, then ok. But otherwise I have just proven that christianity does not exist.

 

Also noah ark..lol dont even need to elaborate. The story debunks itself. Did it again, there, disproven.

 

Now..heres a twist. If you tell me "Ok your right, the bible is not meant to be taken literally and we have misinterpreted it all these years, but I still believe in the concepts." I would respect that. See in that case, your not taking obvious fairy tales and making them real, its more of a loose interpretation. In that cae, while I still disbelieve, I cant blatantly disprove it as I did in the above paragraph.

[Frank M 181]

 

So, people just instinctively know right from wrong? Based on what? And where does that instinct come from? Who provided it?

 

I think part of what you're saying is correct. But, I would say that is something instilled in you by a creator. How else do you suppose it gets there? Like you, I am not busting balls. I just think that innate sense is pretty cool...but it didn't just come from nothing. Where do emotions come from? Where does that intense love you feel when you're tucking your kids in their beds at night come from?

 

It wasn't "provided" by anyone or anything.The concept of right and wrong as it relates to big ticket things like stealing and murder evolved from early humans or pre-humans discovering that living together in numbers was a better way to stay alive and safe. Killing one another and/or depriving one another of food, clothes and shelter was counterproductive to that goal, so eventually those things were phased out over generations and the prohibition against them became innate. The emotions you feel come from the same instinct of self-preservation. All creatures have a biological urge to procreate and propagate the species. When your reproduction ends up in multiple offspring, the need to protect and nurture your young is lessened, because the odds of passing on your genes are in your favor. The more offspring, the better chance that one will survive. However, creatures that have one offspring at a time, ie, early humans or pre-humans, had to expend a lot more energy nurturing and protecting their young for a long period of time. Feelings of attachment are a natural outgrowth of this instinct for protecting your young and propagating the species, and these naturally evolved into the emotions of love that we feel in relationship. Any emotion that we have has evolved from some survival need, either individual or as a group.

 

This is where science and creationism diverge. There is no need for a provider in science.

[Fumbleweed 554]

 

It wasn't "provided" by anyone or anything.The concept of right and wrong as it relates to big ticket things like stealing and murder evolved from early humans or pre-humans discovering that living together in numbers was a better way to stay alive and safe. Killing one another and/or depriving one another of food, clothes and shelter was counterproductive to that goal, so eventually those things were phased out over generations and the prohibition against them became innate. The emotions you feel come from the same instinct of self-preservation. All creatures have a biological urge to procreate and propagate the species. When your reproduction ends up in multiple offspring, the need to protect and nurture your young is lessened, because the odds of passing on your genes are in your favor. The more offspring, the better chance that one will survive. However, creatures that have one offspring at a time, ie, early humans or pre-humans, had to expend a lot more energy nurturing and protecting their young for a long period of time. Feelings of attachment are a natural outgrowth of this instinct for protecting your young and propagating the species, and these naturally evolved into the emotions of love that we feel in relationship. Any emotion that we have has evolved from some survival need, either individual or as a group.

 

This is where science and creationism diverge. There is no need for a provider in science.

 

You've turned love into something very robotic and fairly selfish at its core. You're free to do that, of course, but I believe it's all much, much bigger and more wonderful than that. Cheers.

[Fumbleweed 554]

 

After 2,015 years, you are the one person that holds the key to debunking religion and have all of the answers (and evidence no doubt!) to why Christianity does not, and should not exist. And you've been hiding on a fantasy football message board this entire time.

 

I am honored to have met you. Please explain, in elaborate detail, how you reached your conclusions and please publish the sources of your evidence.

 

I'm sure the unwashed, stupid masses would like to be enlighted by your wisdom.

 

Hey Jet...how have you been? Still living in the Houston area?

[tanatastic 2,062]

 

I don't wholly disagree, but there is only one of them calling those that don't agree with them "Stupid" and being overtly condeseneding.. Just sayin'

But its nopt a case of me presenting my theory and saying your stupid if you dont agree. Im stating cold hard fact1

 

My analogy is I feel like im on one side pointing at a red apple saying its a red apple, and then theres this whole huge group that doesnt believe me and says its an orange. As if its my "theory" that its an apple. Its a focking red apple, you can see that it is! I dont need proof! They have been taught for so long that its an orange that they simply refuse to see that its impossible for it to be an orange BECAUSE ITS A FOCKING APPLE! I got it from an apple tree, IO can show you pics of a freaking apple, I can take a bite of it, have you take a bite yet you wil still say its an orange.

 

Atheism is not a theory. Its the acceptance of what is blatantly the case. Blatantly.

 

I wont derail this thread anymore, this will be my last religeous post in it. The only rebuttal to my teachings is, "well, you believe what you believe and ill believe what I believe." and then I fume behind my computer monitor and scream "but im not talking about beliefs, im simply stating fact!" then ill calm down. Deal?

[NewbieJr 541]

I started by commenting on a post by Frank where he commented on someone else's post. But ya know, it would only be me who is derailing the thread.

 

Good job staying on topic.

be smart. You're on thin ice.

[IGotWorms 4,060]

But its nopt a case of me presenting my theory and saying your stupid if you dont agree. Im stating cold hard fact1

 

My analogy is I feel like im on one side pointing at a red apple saying its a red apple, and then theres this whole huge group that doesnt believe me and says its an orange. As if its my "theory" that its an apple. Its a focking red apple, you can see that it is! I dont need proof! They have been taught for so long that its an orange that they simply refuse to see that its impossible for it to be an orange BECAUSE ITS A FOCKING APPLE! I got it from an apple tree, IO can show you pics of a freaking apple, I can take a bite of it, have you take a bite yet you wil still say its an orange.

 

Atheism is not a theory. Its the acceptance of what is blatantly the case. Blatantly.

Some apples are orange: http://www.saltspringapplecompany.com/img/clip_image001-16.jpg

 

[tanatastic 2,062]

Some apples are orange: http://www.saltspringapplecompany.com/img/clip_image001-16.jpg

 

Those are actually pretty good. Nowhere near the almighty honeycrisp, but still good.

[Frank M 181]

 

You've turned love into something very robotic and fairly selfish at its core. You're free to do that, of course, but I believe it's all much, much bigger and more wonderful than that. Cheers.

 

Selfish? Robotic?

 

Just because it evolved and wasn't given by a creator doesn't make it any less awesome.

 

And by our very nature as animals, all of our instincts are inherently selfish. We like to think that as the highest form of life on the planet, we've somehow gotten over our animal instincts and that we act on a higher plane, when in reality our lives are the same as any other species. We are born, we grow, we procreate to spread our genes, and we die. The only difference is that we think we're different.

[Eaglesin14 12]

be smart. You're on thin ice.

Report away, Nancyjr.

 

I know you are still butthurt from your last cryfest to Mikey getting rebuffed.

[DankNuggs 305]

 

Selfish? Robotic?

 

Just because it evolved and wasn't given by a creator doesn't make it any less awesome.

 

And by our very nature as animals, all of our instincts are inherently selfish. We like to think that as the highest form of life on the planet, we've somehow gotten over our animal instincts and that we act on a higher plane, when in reality our lives are the same as any other species. We are born, we grow, we procreate to spread our genes, and we die. The only difference is that we think we're different.

You also masterbate, in a selfish and robotic fashion

[DankNuggs 305]

But its nopt a case of me presenting my theory and saying your stupid if you dont agree. Im stating cold hard fact1

 

My analogy is I feel like im on one side pointing at a red apple saying its a red apple, and then theres this whole huge group that doesnt believe me and says its an orange. As if its my "theory" that its an apple. Its a focking red apple, you can see that it is! I dont need proof! They have been taught for so long that its an orange that they simply refuse to see that its impossible for it to be an orange BECAUSE ITS A FOCKING APPLE! I got it from an apple tree, IO can show you pics of a freaking apple, I can take a bite of it, have you take a bite yet you wil still say its an orange.

 

Atheism is not a theory. Its the acceptance of what is blatantly the case. Blatantly.

 

I wont derail this thread anymore, this will be my last religeous post in it. The only rebuttal to my teachings is, "well, you believe what you believe and ill believe what I believe." and then I fume behind my computer monitor and scream "but im not talking about beliefs, im simply stating fact!" then ill calm down. Deal?

That isn't true at all. And you don't use fact, you use extrapolation that because science has answered a lot of questions that it answers all questions

 

Your nihilistic excel spreadsheet would return an 'error - circular reference'

[IGotWorms 4,060]

You also masterbate, in a selfish and robotic fashion

[Frank M 181]

You also masterbate, in a selfish and robotic fashion

That I do. No denying that.

[jerryskids 6,962]

But its nopt a case of me presenting my theory and saying your stupid if you dont agree. Im stating cold hard fact1

 

My analogy is I feel like im on one side pointing at a red apple saying its a red apple, and then theres this whole huge group that doesnt believe me and says its an orange. As if its my "theory" that its an apple. Its a focking red apple, you can see that it is! I dont need proof! They have been taught for so long that its an orange that they simply refuse to see that its impossible for it to be an orange BECAUSE ITS A FOCKING APPLE! I got it from an apple tree, IO can show you pics of a freaking apple, I can take a bite of it, have you take a bite yet you wil still say its an orange.

 

Atheism is not a theory. Its the acceptance of what is blatantly the case. Blatantly.

 

I wont derail this thread anymore, this will be my last religeous post in it. The only rebuttal to my teachings is, "well, you believe what you believe and ill believe what I believe." and then I fume behind my computer monitor and scream "but im not talking about beliefs, im simply stating fact!" then ill calm down. Deal?

 

I'm not religious. Raised a Catholic, I fall somewhere between agnostic and atheist these days. But I've got to say, one of the things that irks me the most is people who discredit religion with no intelligent defense. I mean for fock's sake, you can't even spell religious (there is no "e" in it) in repeated posts where people have responded with the correct spelling numerous times, and you seem to lack the ability to learn this simple spelling concept, yet you have the audacity to call religious people stupid? You have a Slingblade-level intellectual position on this topic. I would tell you that much smarter people than you have struggled with this topic, but your response would be something like "mmm, religeon am stoopid."

[DankNuggs 305]

 

I'm not religious. Raised a Catholic, I fall somewhere between agnostic and atheist these days. But I've got to say, one of the things that irks me the most is people who discredit religion with no intelligent defense. I mean for fock's sake, you can't even spell religious (there is no "e" in it) in repeated posts where people have responded with the correct spelling numerous times, and you seem to lack the ability to learn this simple spelling concept, yet you have the audacity to call religious people stupid? You have a Slingblade-level intellectual position on this topic. I would tell you that much smarter people than you have struggled with this topic, but your response would be something like "mmm, religeon am stoopid."

he thinks refuting one point in the bible that he has no clue should be taken literally or figuratively somehow refutes all of religion...

 

Its like a typical strawman political debate in the geekclub.

[parrot 789]

he thinks refuting one point in the bible that he has no clue should be taken literally or figuratively somehow refutes all of religion...

 

Its like a typical strawman political debate in the geekclub.

 

I'm not calling anyone stupid for their beliefs, but it is interesting how so much of the bible gets reclassed from a supposed true account to allegory as we get smarter.

[The Elevator Killer 659]

Bruce is still into hot women like he always was. wich makes it all the more strange.

So he says. I think really he just wanted to get at their clothes.

[tanatastic 2,062]

 

I'm not religious. Raised a Catholic, I fall somewhere between agnostic and atheist these days. But I've got to say, one of the things that irks me the most is people who discredit religion with no intelligent defense. I mean for fock's sake, you can't even spell religious (there is no "e" in it) in repeated posts where people have responded with the correct spelling numerous times, and you seem to lack the ability to learn this simple spelling concept, yet you have the audacity to call religious people stupid? You have a Slingblade-level intellectual position on this topic. I would tell you that much smarter people than you have struggled with this topic, but your response would be something like "mmm, religeon am stoopid."

Typical. Point out spelling errors as opposed to refuting my points, wich cant be refuted. Thats the entire point of my stance, that its so easy to debunk and disprove that its almost not even necessary.

 

he thinks refuting one point in the bible that he has no clue should be taken literally or figuratively somehow refutes all of religion...

 

Its like a typical strawman political debate in the geekclub.

Wrong. Every word in the bible has to be taken exactly literally, according to the devout christians. Otherwise the entire thing is debunked. Yes, smart people will say "But...but, no that one part is just a story, you cant be serious right." Yup, they are serious. Take every word as true or none of the words. You dont get it do you? They ACTUALLY believe the world is 10k years old and an old man made a boat that could hold every animal that ever existed including the dinosaurs all at once. Thats an actual fact to them..I know, wild right?

[vuduchile 1,945]

Typical. Point out spelling errors as opposed to refuting my points, wich cant be refuted. Thats the entire point of my stance, that its so easy to debunk and disprove that its almost not even necessary.

 

Wrong. Every word in the bible has to be taken exactly literally, according to the devout christians. Otherwise the entire thing is debunked. Yes, smart people will say "But...but, no that one part is just a story, you cant be serious right." Yup, they are serious. Take every word as true or none of the words. You dont get it do you? They ACTUALLY believe the world is 10k years old and an old man made a boat that could hold every animal that ever existed including the dinosaurs all at once. Thats an actual fact to them..I know, wild right?

There are many "Christians" in this world who don't believe in the inerrancy of the bible.

[tanatastic 2,062]

There are many "Christians" in this world who don't believe in the inerrancy of the bible.

They are fakes. True devouts will shun them. Its all or nothing. The very foundation of christianity is that the bible is the word of god and that EVERYONE else who believes in anything else is going to hell. Yes thats true, they actually think that even tho there are 1000s of religeons, that theirs is the true one and no one elses are valid and they are all going to hell. I know man, its really wild stuff, I agree.

[NewbieJr 541]

They are fakes. True devouts will shun them. Its all or nothing. The very foundation of christianity is that the bible is the word of god and that EVERYONE else who believes in anything else is going to hell. Yes thats true, they actually think that even tho there are 1000s of religeons, that theirs is the true one and no one elses are valid and they are all going to hell. I know man, its really wild stuff, I agree.

Nah. The modern Christian simply disregards the parts that aren't convenient but then holds its words as sacred when it fits their agenda.

[vuduchile 1,945]

They are fakes. True devouts will shun them. Its all or nothing. The very foundation of christianity is that the bible is the word of god and that EVERYONE else who believes in anything else is going to hell. Yes thats true, they actually think that even tho there are 1000s of religeons, that theirs is the true one and no one elses are valid and they are all going to hell. I know man, its really wild stuff, I agree.

You, and the "devouts" can call them fake and shun them all you want., but there are millions of progressive Christians who have long since moved past the Christianity you've grown to hate.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Nah. The modern Christian simply disregards the parts that aren't convenient but then holds its words as sacred when it fits their agenda.

Not really...many have a better understanding than...its all 100% literal.

 

Saying anyone who does not take it 100% literal is a fake is complete crap.

[tanatastic 2,062]

You, and the "devouts" can call them fake and shun them all you want., but there are millions of progressive Christians who have long since moved past the Christianity you've grown to hate.

Thats awesome if its the case. If people would start thinking of religeon as a guiding light or a way to structure themselves, id be much more tolerant. Unfortunately, as I stated...that would mean admitting that you believe in make believe. Wich is fine, dont get me wrong, I just want people to admit it and stop embarrassing themselves. I like the "idea" of god and christ and all that. But im too logical to say its anything less than fairy tales. But anything that keeps crazy masses from killing people and going nuts is ok by me. That also happens to be why religeon was invented, to control the poor peasants with fear and threats from a conveniently unseen god.

[tanatastic 2,062]

Not really...many have a better understanding than...its all 100% literal.

 

Saying anyone who does not take it 100% literal is a fake is complete crap.

Im sorry but these people are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Its like "Well, it sounds like bull but so many believe it so it must be kind of true right? Maybe ill just convince myself to believe just in case theres a hell...i dont want to go to hell..."

 

This is many peoples mentality and its utter garbage. Call a spade a spade, its all nonsense and you know it. Magic boats, guy in the clouds, adam and eve, cmon man seriously? Just stop it everyone.

[NewbieJr 541]

Not really...many have a better understanding than...its all 100% literal.

 

Saying anyone who does not take it 100% literal is a fake is complete crap.

The bible says that anyone having sex before married should be killed.

The Bible says anyone cheating on their spouse should be killed.

The Bible says any man laying with another man should be killed.

 

If any Christian ever cheated or had sex before they were married, but uses the bible as their excuse to be against gay marriage, they are frauds and should be laughed at. And I doubt if even 10% of those 'christians' against gay marriage were virgins when they got married. The Bible is only used as a reference point when it's convenient.

[naomi 360]

They are fakes. True devouts will shun them. Its all or nothing. The very foundation of christianity is that the bible is the word of god and that EVERYONE else who believes in anything else is going to hell. Yes thats true, they actually think that even tho there are 1000s of religeons, that theirs is the true one and no one elses are valid and they are all going to hell. I know man, its really wild stuff, I agree.

 

The very foundation of Christianity is this:

 

Christ in Luke 19:10: For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

 

The Apostle Paul in 1 Timothy 1:15: This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

 

The Apostle Paul in Romans 5:6-8: For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

If what you are meaning by using the word belief is 'assenting to this concept', you can assent to that concept (ie., you take the bible literally), live according to the ways of the group you're thinking about, and be no less going to hell than anyone else.

 

The separation between lost and found (in the sense Amazing Grace uses those words) is Christ convicting a person's heart of his/her need for him. Not a concept. How they're staking their identity is not what's actually doing anything, or did anything, for them.

 

Unrelated to the above but a good brief read for you - Pluralism as a Religious Philosophy

[IGotWorms 4,060]

Aw sh1t, naomi killed the thread

[NewbieJr 541]

Here's my take on religion:

If there's a God and/or heaven, the people who treat others with kindness will get in, the people are treat others like ass holes will not. It's really simple.

 

And if it works any way other than this, then the system blows

[tanatastic 2,062]

So yea we should move the convo back to Cait Jenners kek.

[vuduchile 1,945]

Nah. The modern Christian simply disregards the parts that aren't convenient but then holds its words as sacred when it fits their agenda.

Granted, there are those that do, but not all progressive Christians have the type of agenda you're referring to.

 

I don't believe we have an agenda, but this is how my wife and I approach our religion.

 

We believe in evolution to a point, but don't believe in the big bang theory. The chances of that actually occurring is incredibly remote.

We believe in intelligent design, but don't believe in biblical inerrancy or a God that rules over us and manages our daily lives. We don't pretend to know anything about an afterlife, but we do believe we'll live on in the hearts and minds of our children and their children.

 

We go to church and I play in the band there. My wife teaches Sunday School sometimes and our children attend weekly. They share the lessons of morality from the bible as examples of right vs. wrong for the kids. They don't teach them to fear god, threaten them with damnation, smack their hands with rulers or molest them in the sanctuary.

 

The whole vibe there is positive and relaxing. The experience helps us remain thankful, humble and grounded.

 

Through our involvement in the church, we donate both time and money to help those in our community and around the world who are struggling with various hardships. We provide food for the needy in our own community by sending back packs full of food home with children who need it. We recently helped 6 families who lost their homes in an apartment fire with food, clothing, temporary and long term shelter.

 

We had 2 of our members recently return from a mission to Haiti where they continue to fight a losing battle against all manner of human suffering.

 

Here's an interesting article as an aside: https://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-red-cross-raised-half-a-billion-dollars-for-haiti-and-built-6-homes

 

We aren't Jesus freaks out in the street, handing tickets out for God. We don't really say grace. We drink, we cuss, we bang in all orifices, we tell off-color jokes and even yell at each other. We're far from perfect and don't strive to be. There are gays and lesbians in our congregation. All people are welcome there, but we don't try to drag people in. My wife and I follow the old social rules of never discussing religion or politics at social gatherings.

 

We know we don't have all the answers to the Universe, so we just want to do our part to help our little corner of the world be a better place.

 

This is not a non-denominational new-age church. It's United Methodist Church.

[naomi 360]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6md638smQd8

[Sho Nuff 720]

Im sorry but these people are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Its like "Well, it sounds like bull but so many believe it so it must be kind of true right? Maybe ill just convince myself to believe just in case theres a hell...i dont want to go to hell..."

 

This is many peoples mentality and its utter garbage. Call a spade a spade, its all nonsense and you know it. Magic boats, guy in the clouds, adam and eve, cmon man seriously? Just stop it everyone.

 

Yeah...you seem like a very unreasonable person and the type that its pointless to even try discussing religion...which is why I don't get into it on the internet with most people.

 

Enjoy your day.

[Sho Nuff 720]

The bible says that anyone having sex before married should be killed.

The Bible says anyone cheating on their spouse should be killed.

The Bible says any man laying with another man should be killed.

 

If any Christian ever cheated or had sex before they were married, but uses the bible as their excuse to be against gay marriage, they are frauds and should be laughed at. And I doubt if even 10% of those 'christians' against gay marriage were virgins when they got married. The Bible is only used as a reference point when it's convenient.

 

The Bible says a lot of things that were laws in the OT.

And I agree that many Christians use even those OT laws to form ideals about things now (and mainly use things like that to be against rights for homosexuals).

I live it a bit differently and understand the context of those laws as well as the redeeming power of Christ. Someone I follow more than I follow people telling me what to believe.