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Stabler had CTE

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http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/14703416/outside-lines-nfl-great-ken-stabler-diagnosed-cte-death

 

 

Still mildly surprised that the NFL did not arrange an accidental death for that doctor that outed their secret. What can this mean for the future of the game? This issue continues to arise. Now that it is "known" can anyone legitimately sue them if they are diagnosed after knowing this could happen to them?

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Better helmets and mouth guards will be developed. Along with holding players out longer after having a concussion. I do not think this will kill the nfl.

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Better helmets and mouth guards will be developed. Along with holding players out longer after having a concussion. I do not think this will kill the nfl.

It will die from the youth programs upwards. More and more parents will not allow their kids to play the sport and steer them toward "safer" sports like soccer and (hopefully) baseball. The only kids playing will be those seeing football as their ticket into college and/or out of poverty. Picture Thunder Dome, without Mel Gibson.

 

The NFL will not exist in 50 years.

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I think the qb position, the most important position, will suffer the most. No true elite passing qbs means not nearly as entertaining a product. QB is the most difficult position to play in any professional sport, which is why its so fun to watch. A person who can throw a football 60 yards on point, while reading the chaos going on in front of them really is a pretty amazing feat.

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It will die from the youth programs upwards.

The NFL will not exist in 50 years.

I don't think this is that far fetched.

Not sure about "extinction" but I also think (and have posted so before) that the NFL is at its peak and how far it drops will be heavily affected by this CTE issue.

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My glorious alma mater, the University of New Hampshire, has received national media coverage for running portions of football practice without helmets. It teaches players to tackle in ways that protect their heads. It's not a cure-all, but I could see programs like this gaining more traction.

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It will die from the youth programs upwards. More and more parents will not allow their kids to play the sport and steer them toward "safer" sports like soccer and (hopefully) baseball. The only kids playing will be those seeing football as their ticket into college and/or out of poverty. Picture Thunder Dome, without Mel Gibson.

 

The NFL will not exist in 50 years.

 

Those other sports are not as "safe" as you might think. I don't always agree with Hoge, but he has some very good points.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/03/despite-his-own-concussions-hoge-thinks-football-critics-go-too-far/

 

But even though Hoge has suffered headaches and memory loss, he still believes that playing football is beneficial, and he’s particularly critical of Dr. Bennet Omalu, who is using his newfound celebrity to discourage parents from allowing children to play football.

“The guy knows nothing about pediatrics but he keeps talking about that as if he’s educated and informed in that. He’s never been in that world,” Hoge said of Omalu on the DVE Morning Show. “If we follow Dr. Omalu’s philosophy and live in his fear, we’re going to have a problem getting our kids off the couch. . . . What we need to do is educate and inform our kids, empower our parents and our educators and our advisors in how we make sports safer for our kids, as safe as we can make them, teach them how to handle injuries right, and then enjoy all the sports they want to enjoy. To rob our kids of those opportunities and scare them to death is an absolute travesty.”

Every sport has a risk of injury and every sport has physical benefits, Hoge says. Despite his own injuries in football, he believes the benefits outweigh the risks.

 

Omalu is real big on saying that football is killing players in the NFL (it isn't) and the guy that discovered CTE with him disagrees with his assessment about kids playing football (he is on the board for Pop Warner). The game has been made much safer and looking at the brains of guys that started playing the game 60 years ago is not a good barometer of safety for kids today.

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I still like the idea of removing the face masks. You'll get more bloody noses and busted lips, but it will drastically reduce the number of tacklers leading with their heads.

 

I suspect RBs would also stop lowering their heads as much.

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I still like the idea of removing the face masks. You'll get more bloody noses and busted lips, but it will drastically reduce the number of tacklers leading with their heads.

 

I suspect RBs would also stop lowering their heads as much.

 

Actually, you will just have more players getting kneed in the face in the pileups. Lots of people think that it is an easy thing to just take away facemasks or even helmets to prevent players from leading with their heads.

 

You have to teach players how to tackle and you need to penalize, fine and/or suspend players who lead with their head.

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Those other sports are not as "safe" as you might think. I don't always agree with Hoge, but he has some very good points.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/03/despite-his-own-concussions-hoge-thinks-football-critics-go-too-far/

 

 

Omalu is real big on saying that football is killing players in the NFL (it isn't) and the guy that discovered CTE with him disagrees with his assessment about kids playing football (he is on the board for Pop Warner). The game has been made much safer and looking at the brains of guys that started playing the game 60 years ago is not a good barometer of safety for kids today.

I agree with your first point, that's why I put "safer" in quotes.

 

With the way society is trending in general, whose words are gonna carry more weight--a head doctor or a former nfl player who suffers from headaches and memory loss. The other things they are finding is that its not even concussions, but just the constant, repeated mild trauma (think center vs nose guard on EVERY play) are just as responsible for this as anything.

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I agree with your first point, that's why I put "safer" in quotes.

 

With the way society is trending in general, whose words are gonna carry more weight--a head doctor or a former nfl player who suffers from headaches and memory loss. The other things they are finding is that its not even concussions, but just the constant, repeated mild trauma (think center vs nose guard on EVERY play) are just as responsible for this as anything.

 

The problem is that the head doctor appears to be out to get his own fame. Omalu makes diagnoses that are based more on his celebrity than science. For example, he "guarantees" that OJ Simpson has CTE. Well, CTE can only be diagnosed by looking at the brain after death. Making such statements is irresponsible.

 

On the other hand, Julian Bailes, who was one of the founders of the Brain Injury Research Institute with Omalu, takes an approach more in line with the "former NFL player".

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/08/dr-julian-bailes-sees-little-risk-of-cte-from-youth-football/

 

Neurosurgeon Dr. Julian Bailes said on Tuesday that he disagrees with his colleague Dr. Bennet Omalu, who wrote in the New York Times on Monday that he believes children should be barred from football, hockey, boxing, mixed martial arts and other contact sports. Bailes believes that recent rules changes made at all levels of football mitigate many of the risks associated with the sport.

 

“I’m a big believer in the benefits of organized sports and the benefits of football. I have two children who play football and I believe football is safer than it’s ever been,” Bailes, chairman of neurosurgery at the NorthShore Neurological Institute, said on a conference call today.

 

Bailes said the risk of Chronic Traumatic Encephelopathy comes from pro football players slamming into each other thousands of times over the course of years, and not from the kinds of hits that children inflict on each other in a few Pop Warner seasons. Bailes also believes that the seemingly large numbers of former players who have been diagnosed with CTE come from those players’ brains being selected for research specifically because those players showed symptoms of brain damage. Bailes said only about 100 football players have been shown to have CTE out of tens of thousands who have played in the NFL.

 

“We don’t know the prevalence of CTE. I have said and I believe that CTE is a risk in a minority of NFL players and hopefully in a group of players who are in a now bygone era, meaning that the reforms in the NFL that began in 2009, as a result of our work and others’ work, has resulted in sweeping changes,” Bailes said. “Those that have been tested were those who the family brought forward after death thinking that they had CTE, thinking they were symptomatic, thinking they were showing signs and symptoms, so it’s a very skewed, very biased sample if you look at it scientifically or epistemologically. We don’t know the real prevalence.”

 

In Concussion, Bailes is played by Alec Baldwin and Omalu is played by Will Smith. In real life, Omalu has referred to Bailes as “my mentor” on studying head injuries in football. But Bailes and Omalu disagree about whether football is safe for children. Omalu says it isn’t, Bailes says it is.

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The problem is that the head doctor appears to be out to get his own fame. Omalu makes diagnoses that are based more on his celebrity than science. For example, he "guarantees" that OJ Simpson has CTE. Well, CTE can only be diagnosed by looking at the brain after death. Making such statements is irresponsible.

 

On the other hand, Julian Bailes, who was one of the founders of the Brain Injury Research Institute with Omalu, takes an approach more in line with the "former NFL player".

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/08/dr-julian-bailes-sees-little-risk-of-cte-from-youth-football/

 

For some reason the second larger quote doesn't appear in my quote, but Bailes says "only about 100 football players have been shown to have CTE out of the tens of thousands that have played in the NFL"

 

How many of the tens of thousands have been tested? The vast majority are still living I would guess so they couldn't have been tested yet.

 

I know it sounds like I am predicting doom and gloom, but I really think the new age parents of America really end up taking football as we know it, down for the count.

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For some reason the second larger quote doesn't appear in my quote, but Bailes says "only about 100 football players have been shown to have CTE out of the tens of thousands that have played in the NFL"

 

How many of the tens of thousands have been tested? The vast majority are still living I would guess so they couldn't have been tested yet.

 

I know it sounds like I am predicting doom and gloom, but I really think the new age parents of America really end up taking football as we know it, down for the count.

I don't know if they'll take it down completely, but I agree that it's going to change drastically. It already is.

 

I had a thread here a few months ago about the newly created flag football league here in my small town due to the declining number of kids playing youth football.

 

Many kids have already been lost forever to soccer. The concussion thing is pushing more parents away from it every year.

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I don't know if they'll take it down completely, but I agree that it's going to change drastically. It already is.

 

I had a thread here a few months ago about the newly created flag football league here in my small town due to the declining number of kids playing youth football.

 

Many kids have already been lost forever to soccer. The concussion thing is pushing more parents away from it every year.

 

It has changed the sport and the numbers are declining. The reality is that we are losing kids to the couch as much as anything. Mommies are wanting to bubble-wrap their kids and you end up with the pussification of America continuing on.

 

I do think that we are seeing some push-back against that line of thinking as there are some pockets where the numbers are coming back.

 

We are in the process of adding flag to our tackle program for the really young kids (K-3), but those are the kids that are the safest playing tackle. Unfortunately, if we fight it, we will lose and it is better to get them at least part of the program so that you can get them to start tackle in 4th or 5th grade because if they start when they are in high school, they are going to have a tough time. If you don't know how to tackle or be hit at that age, then you can get hurt.

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This may sound like I'm making a joke, but I truly think the game will evolve into something with no hitting, no tackling, etc. It'll be something more than flag football, but the concept is a good starting point.....In Texas (and maybe everywhere), 7 on 7 football is already becoming pretty huge with top high school players. Maybe that evolves. Hell, put real uniforms on them so it doesn't look like a pickup game, and I'd watch.

 

The long term trends are obvious if we can step back and look at it from on high. Just looking at the last 50 years, the game has evolved from one of brute strength, power, and nastiness into a game of skill, strategy, deception, and speed. There is no reason to not expect that to continue. I know I don't watch for the hitting or tackling. I like seeing skill.

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This may sound like I'm making a joke, but I truly think the game will evolve into something with no hitting, no tackling, etc. It'll be something more than flag football, but the concept is a good starting point.....In Texas (and maybe everywhere), 7 on 7 football is already becoming pretty huge with top high school players. Maybe that evolves. Hell, put real uniforms on them so it doesn't look like a pickup game, and I'd watch.

 

The long term trends are obvious if we can step back and look at it from on high. Just looking at the last 50 years, the game has evolved from one of brute strength, power, and nastiness into a game of skill, strategy, deception, and speed. There is no reason to not expect that to continue. I know I don't watch for the hitting or tackling. I like seeing skill.

Sarcastaball is the game for you.

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There are some common sense questions that aren't being answered, or even asked. For example, what about the overwhelming majority of former NFL players Who go on to live to their seventies and eighties and died of natural causes? If you only test the players who commit suicide, what is your control group? What about Tom Jackson for example? He hasn't been in the game for 25 years and delivered and received multiple vicious hits. Why isn't he a mumbling stumbling fool?

 

The science and critical reasoning is atrocious here. What about the fact that most of the players who have off themselves also admitted to pain killer abuse, drug abuse And alcohol abuse? All of which we know for a fact have a permanent dbilatory eedeffect upon the physiology of the brain?

 

What about genetic predisposition? What about unrelated brain injuries incurred earlier in life? There are so many variables that have not been solved for Andover ruled out, that, while I'm not saying that science is wrong, I am saying it is horribly incomplete.

 

Another example, they only test the Brains Of those that have killed themselves android:id very very prematurely Of unnatural causes. Has science tested the brains of players who died in their 80s and 90s Of natural causes? Again, if not, What is your control group? If those that died of natural causes also show signs of Brain disease, what does that do to the findings to date?

 

Far more questions than answers. And don't even get me started on the fact that the lawyers are only going after the NFL, not the NCAA And/or Free college football programs. We all know that's just a money grab. Yet, the frontal lobe of Most Men is not fully formed until after 3:21 or so years old. Are you telling me that TBI Inflicted upon a not yet fully formed brain Is somehow irrelevant compared to TBI Inflicted on a fully formed brain wearing a custom-made helmet As opposed to some 10 or 15 year old hand-me-down helmet that kind of sort of fits?

 

I am far from a scientist, but these are common sense questions. And yet, Nobody seems to be asking them. Especially the sensationalistic press.

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Play at your own risk!

 

 

also STFU and enjoy your $$$

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Part of the problem in all sports is over doing it.

 

Of course slamming your head into sh!t over and over for twenty years is bad for you.

 

Of course having high school kids throw thousands and thousands of pitches until their shoulders and elbows explode is not smart.

 

Our bodies are not designed for 20+ years of high level sport. They just aren't.

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The understanding now Weather tacit or otherwise Is that now that the risks are known, Nobody really has any legal standing to file a lawsuit anymore. It would be the equivalent of a coal miner Filing For damages from black lung disease Today.

 

The NFL paid the price for any sort of cover up that they might have perpetrated in the past, The damn few judges Would grant legal standing to any new causesof action for participation injuries incurred From this day forward.

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I don't tend to Fall into the tin foil hat group, but, Did anybody else notice that the Al Jazeera story about Peyton Manning Came out at exactly the same time the concussion movie was released? And suddenly, the concussion movie Was at best an afterthought compared to the Manning story? I'm just asking.

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Oh and speaking of which Drama Number one, Aljazeera is shutting down in the next few months. At least it's American component. Which is about as American as Catherine Zeta Jones. And about as reliable as the Iraqi information minister.And, Number 2 Al Gore was paid Out the ass by Qatar For his current news network To be replaced by Al Jazeera America which lasted about as long as a fart in a wind storm. Pay off?

 

Again, totally unrelated to the topic at hand, but kind of makes you wonder...

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Ad hoc , etgo Procter hoc is theost cogent syllogisms in play hete.

 

Wha? :unsure:

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That would be "after this, therefore because of this."

 

And it is "ad hoc ergo propter hoc. Not proctor.

 

But well done nonetheless. Raise the level around here wiff.

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That would be "after this, therefore because of this."

 

And it is "ad hoc ergo propter hoc. Not proctor.

 

But well done nonetheless. Raise the level around here wiff.

Raise the level of what? Failed drunken latin posts? I provide below the full incoherent post:

 

Ad hoc , etgo Procter hoc is theost cogent syllogisms in play hete.

 

:dunno:

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Raise the level of what? Failed drunken latin posts? I provide below the full incoherent post:

 

Ad hoc , etgo Procter hoc is theost cogent syllogisms in play hete.

 

:dunno:

Hey, usually on this bored, the response would have been something like "you are a retarded cacksucking piece of sh!t."

 

Attempts to introduce formal logic, and in Latin no less, should be applauded. However badly executed.

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Let me solve the problem...

 

Less equipment...no armor...no reckless behavior.

Play both ways..fewer 350lb monsters that run like deer

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Honestly, I think the NFL is off the hook now. Let's face it, Nobody can say they didn't see concussions or their alleged impact coming anymore. The truth is, the majority of NFL players couldn't fill out much less pass A Walmart application and background check.

 

I am glad that the people who needed help God help, or at least their families did. But I think that era is officially over now From and jurisprudence standpoint.Already, players are making decisions about whether and how long they wish to play based upon the evidence to date. Which, as I have stated already, Is Incomplete at best.There is a reason why aren't workers and coal miners And soldiers and so many others continue To do their jobs. From this point forward, I don't think the NFL can or should be held responsible for any a brain related diseases That come from TBI.

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I know I am sort of hijacking this thread, and for that, I guess I apologize, as much as you can For a low rent low volume message board, But I look at the NFL settlement The same way as I do reparations. Look at the overall benefit that the NFL has provided To African American players and their families and their families families Versus the downside ToBrain injuries that can't be entirely Attributed to the NFL In either scientific and or logical Way. If nothing else, I think the NFL should be allowed some sort of an offset. And I know that's not popular, But at a minimum, it should be considered.

 

How many of these kids incurred major TDI. In pop Warner, High school, college And still went on To receive tens of millions of dollars For their families In a world in which they would have received At best minimum wage in any other profession?

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God willing, this is Cam Newton's future.

Did cam pull a cos on the wife?

 

You can not like a player but to wish brain damage is kind of fvcked up.

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Why do people have such an issue with Cam Newton? I don't get it.

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Why do people have such an issue with Cam Newton? I don't get it.

I don't either, for the celebrating? It's harmless. He just seems to be having fun

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Why do people have such an issue with Cam Newton? I don't get it.

Nobody minds all Bradys squawking, or Rodgers discount double check'ing or any of the other countless silly celebrations that go on..

 

:dunno:

 

I think I have an idea but, the haters aren't going to like the fact that subconsciously, they might simply be racist.

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