Systemic Racism

[Baker Boy 1,500]

6 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

So we are back on school choice again?  Gah its like your go to.

My opinion?  It's complicated.  

I can only speak about my neck of the woods but the school choice here is 1. Public school   2. Charter school (by lottery but free)  3. Private school (pay to play).

Guess what the Charter Schools DON'T have?  Buses or free lunches.  Guess who needs both more than any, the poor.  So what happens, rich kids go to private schools, middle class go to charter schools, and the poor go to public schools.  What a choice.  

You are lucky Inner city kids don’t have that choice but many want it. So you are saying the system works because they are poor  and they don’t get a choice? But it doesn’t explain why the Democrats are against it.

[Baker Boy 1,500]

3 minutes ago, jonmx said:

It illustrates how stupid the phrase is and how convoluted the meaning of the words have to be stretched to apply it.  When you expand words to mean everything then words become meaningless.

I agree but I didn’t ask the question using the term.

[KSB2424 3,086]

Just now, Baker Boy said:

You are lucky Inner city kids don’t have that choice but many want it. So you are saying the system works because they are poor they don’t get a choice? But it doesn’t explain why the Democrats are against it.

I'm saying that Charter schools exist because they don't rely on buses or free lunches from the government.  So that money is spent on other things (education).  BUT poor families rely on that.  So its not really a choice.  

[Baker Boy 1,500]

Just now, KSB2424 said:

I'm saying that Charter schools exist because they don't rely on buses or free lunches from the government.  So that money is spent on other things (education).  BUT poor families rely on that.  So its not really a choice.  

So your answer is it can’t be done with a government who has a $4 trillion+ budget. 

[KSB2424 3,086]

18 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

So your answer is it can’t be done with a government who has a $4 trillion+ budget. 

It probably could, but you don't want to know my answer as its the opposite of school choice.  Take all the money going to charter schools and make the public schools the best they can be.  So called "school choice" only takes funds away from public schools.  It's the opposite of what you are implying.

Baker Boy, mind you this, both my sons go to a Charter School, I play the hand the government deals, and choose the best for them.  What parent wouldn't?  However if I was king for a day I would funnel all those funds into public schools and make them better, diverse, etc.   

If you want to go to Private School that is a different ball game, that is pay out of pocket to play.  

 

[peenie 1,701]

1 hour ago, KSB2424 said:

I think I'm sensing a trend here.  I had a great childhood,  would not change it for the world,  never really knew we were lower middle class.  Not poor in the least, not even trying to fake that, but I grew up in rural North Carolina, I was the first B in K.S.B. to go to college in my family.....ever.  I remember having to go to my friends house to watch Nickelodeon as a kid and then later for TBS / TNT for Braves games.  God Bless Dale Murphy.  We didn't have (afford) cable, my first plane trip was when I was 20 years old and I paid for it myself (college part time job).  Vacations were camping in tents and in a pickup truck camper at Emerald Isle campgrounds on Atlantic Beach.   Small brick ranch house in the bad part of town.  That's not "poor" but we sure as shit didn't have a lot.  

I don't ever remember my parents talking politics, only working 8 to 6.  I was a latch key kid, had to be.  They were better people than I am now. I'm lazy compared to them.  

ETA: my round about point is, man, some people just get frustrated hearing so many excuses.  People grow up poor, there are obstacles, some parents don't have money, etc, etc. etc.  at a certain point it's not racism per se, just getting tired of whining.   

How many friends did you have where you couldn’t go over their home because of your color? I suffered that and my daughter far more when we moved to Georgia. There are closed doors, there are opportunities not offered because of color.

You keep looking at your life and assuming your life is the same and things operate the same for you as everyone. It does not.

Also, I don’t know what happened to the money (federal dollars) but the urban city school my daughter attended had 1 small room library and hardly any functioning computers and no air conditioning. No comparison to the better schools. It had nothing to do with bad parents and none of those parents were in gangs.  
 

You just refuse to believe life sucks and it’s not fair. You don’t want to hear the truth or understand that complaining doesn’t  mean we’re lying.

[wiffleball 4,662]

Well this retard in Kenosha who showed up from Illinois carrying a long gun. The 17 year old who killed the couple people. Shouldn't have been there in the first place. People are shouting at the cops that he shot people. And four police Bearcats cruise by him like he's one of their own? Man, I don't even believe in the whole White Privilege thing and even I had to cringe.

[Baker Boy 1,500]

12 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

It probably could, but you don't want to know my answer as its the opposite of school choice.  Take all the money going to charter schools and make the public schools the best they can be.  So called "school choice" only takes funds away from public schools.  It's the opposite of what you are implying.

Baker Boy, mind you this, both my sons go to a Charter School, I play the hand the government deals, and choose the best for them.  What parent wouldn't?  However if I was king for a day I would funnel all those funds into public schools and make them better, diverse, etc.   

If you want to go to Private School that is a different ball game, that is pay out of pocket to play.  

 

But you want to deny that hand to the people who don’t have it and public schools are not equal. I see where you are coming from so we will never agree. I think all Americans should have the access to public education that is offered others. I guess we do agree on Private schools.

[KSB2424 3,086]

10 hours ago, peenie said:

How many friends did you have where you couldn’t go over their home because of your color? I suffered that and my daughter far more when we moved to Georgia. There are closed doors, there are opportunities not offered because of color.

You keep looking at your life and assuming your life is the same and things operate the same for you as everyone. It does not.

Also, I don’t know what happened to the money (federal dollars) but the urban city school my daughter attended had 1 small room library and hardly any functioning computers and no air conditioning. No comparison to the better schools. It had nothing to do with bad parents and none of those parents were in gangs.  
 

You just refuse to believe life sucks and it’s not fair. You don’t want to hear the truth or understand that complaining doesn’t  mean we’re lying.

I fully realize my life is based on my own experiences and observations.  We all do.  By all means you, me and the person reading this sentence do too. 

There is a lot to unpack from this post though.  My high school was 50% white, 40% black, 10% Other.   Darrell (black dude), played right field on my HS baseball team (terrible fielder but could hit) was one of my best friends.  He all but lived at my house for a while.  You have me confused with some rich liberal white schmuck who grew up in a Country Club and "knew a black person". 

Once you stop making excuses, the world opens up.  Tis true. 

[Brad GLuckman 518]

School funding is overrated. In my county, the worst district by far has higher funding per student than the almost every district, including the top 10. A good school is the result of good parents. Money wont fix that problem.

[KSB2424 3,086]

2 minutes ago, Brad GLuckman said:

School funding is overrated. In my county, the worst district by far has higher funding per student than the almost every district, including the top 10. A good school is the result of good parents. Money wont fix that problem.

Keep going.........you mean parents that care right?  Involved in the school, etc. 

 

[Brad GLuckman 518]

6 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Keep going.........you mean parents that care right?  Involved in the school, etc. 

 

Right

[KSB2424 3,086]

45 minutes ago, Brad GLuckman said:

Right

I will watch the documentary you said but quick story.

I live in a very diverse community, my kids public school was a GT Magnet  Magnet School.  My wife was the PTA President, not because she really wanted to do it (its completely voluntary) but because nobody else would do it,.  I helped her and we raised so much money for the school, supplemented govt money to give all 3rd thru 5th graders a chromebook.  Extra things for teachers so they would want to work there, etc.  Another thing was a volunteer clean up to upgrade the landscaping, because it sucked.   This part of the county gets the low end of the funds.  There was a Facebook post, letter sent home with every student:  "Please show up on Saturday (whatever date) to help spread mulch, pull weeds, and make our school beautiful."  

I brought a wheel barrel, a weed eater, blower and both my boys to work.  Six or seven other white families showed up, three or four Hispanic families showed up.  Zero, I repeat , ZERO black families showed up.  We had 30 yards of mulch brought in, worked like hell to spread it, pulled weeds staked small trees, etc.  

A persons perspective is based on their experiences. 

ETA: guess who was first in line to get a "free" Chromebook?  

[FlyinHeadlock 459]

Systemic belligerent black men. Full of hate cuz mommy and daddy don't love them just like Obama's daddy. Bitterness towards families with values.

 

 

[Baker Boy 1,500]

 

6 hours ago, FlyinHeadlock said:

Systemic belligerent black men. Full of hate cuz mommy and daddy don't love them just like Obama's daddy. Bitterness towards families with values.

 

 

Collective Punishment 

Penalty imposed on every member of a group without regard to his or her involvement in the group's actions and conduct. Related: collective responsibility

 

Systemic belligerent white men and Women Full of hate cuz mommy and daddy don't love them. Bitterness towards families with values. Burning down our cities and destroying others property.

It was government legislation that destroyed the family unit of the poor in American. Look at the stats for single parent families amongst the poor before and  after AFDC.

      

Flyin this is not aimed directly at you

Why punish all Black people, don’t the people on this board have any empathy for the people who are trapped in a violent neighborhood without the tools to escape? Giving food stamps, housing, a cell phone etc. doesn’t help them, it just makes them more dependent on the government. Generations going back to the time Black Americans were denied many of the things our ancestors were given. They don’t know any other way of life. It wasn’t that long ago they had to fight just to send their kids to school. . We are all Americans why won’t we help? Why do we choose to spend Billions of dollars on other countries but ignore our own people?

And all this, I was raised in poverty, I was poor, I had a Black friend has to stop. There is no way any of us White people can actually know what they are going through. Our lives are completely different from what they experience. 

Our Government is responsible for this situation, if it was intentional or just ignorant legislation to put a band aid on a problem without the foresight to see the long term ramifications, I don’t know but it is up to us to fix it.

Our government has divided us, split us into groups giving some groups advantages over others, like Affirmative Action, to keep us divided. Check out all the protected groups in this country, it is mind boggling. Look at all the sub groups that have been created in the last 10 years. When will it stop?

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies!

 

[jonmx 1,676]

16 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

 

Collective Punishment 

Penalty imposed on every member of a group without regard to his or her involvement in the group's actions and conduct. Related: collective responsibility

 

Systemic belligerent white men and Women Full of hate cuz mommy and daddy don't love them. Bitterness towards families with values. Burning down our cities and destroying others property.

It was government legislation that destroyed the family unit of the poor in American. Look at the stats for single parent families amongst the poor before and  after AFDC.

      

Flyin this is not aimed directly at you

Why punish all Black people, don’t the people on this board have any empathy for the people who are trapped in a violent neighborhood without the tools to escape? Giving food stamps, housing, a cell phone etc. doesn’t help them, it just makes them more dependent on the government. Generations going back to the time Black Americans were denied many of the things our ancestors were given. They don’t know any other way of life. It wasn’t that long ago they had to fight just to send their kids to school. . We are all Americans why won’t we help? Why do we choose to spend Billions of dollars on other countries but ignore our own people?

And all this, I was raised in poverty, I was poor, I had a Black friend has to stop. There is no way any of us White people can actually know what they are going through. Our lives are completely different from what they experience. 

Our Government is responsible for this situation, if it was intentional or just ignorant legislation to put a band aid on a problem without the foresight to see the long term ramifications, I don’t know but it is up to us to fix it.

Our government has divided us, split us into groups giving some groups advantages over others, like Affirmative Action, to keep us divided. Check out all the protected groups in this country, it is mind boggling. Look at all the sub groups that have been created in the last 10 years. When will it stop?

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies!

 

I have empathy for their situation, but it is a myth they are trapped there.   What is ironic though is you think it is the people on this board who don't have empathy, but yet all the policies that you talk about causing the problems are the ones supported by those on the left who show their phony empathy by supporting these destructive policies.   

[Baker Boy 1,500]

11 minutes ago, jonmx said:

I have empathy for their situation, but it is a myth they are trapped there.   What is ironic though is you think it is the people on this board who don't have empathy, but yet all the policies that you talk about causing the problems are the ones supported by those on the left who show their phony empathy by supporting these destructive policies.   

I agree, but there are many people who don’t have the resources, tools and knowledge to escape the violence in our inner cities. 

[jonmx 1,676]

4 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

I agree, but there are many people who don’t have the resources, tools and knowledge to escape the violence in our inner cities. 

About 70 percent of African-Americans live above the poverty line, which indicates that most have the means to live somewhere else if they so desired.  

[Baker Boy 1,500]

Just now, jonmx said:

About 70 percent of African-Americans live above the poverty line, which indicates that most have the means to live somewhere else if they so desired.  

Why are we ignoring the 30%.

[avoiding injuries 1,236]

9 hours ago, jonmx said:

This is about as stupid as one could get.   What a moronic argument.  And i feel i must appologize to morons for making that comparison.  

Jon, you should stayed in poverty and made sure your children grew up in poverty as well. Maybe your grandkids too. I’m not really sure how much is enough to really be able to understand. 

[Brad GLuckman 518]

8 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

I will watch the documentary you said but quick story.

I live in a very diverse community, my kids public school was a GT Magnet  Magnet School.  My wife was the PTA President, not because she really wanted to do it (its completely voluntary) but because nobody else would do it,.  I helped her and we raised so much money for the school, supplemented govt money to give all 3rd thru 5th graders a chromebook.  Extra things for teachers so they would want to work there, etc.  Another thing was a volunteer clean up to upgrade the landscaping, because it sucked.   This part of the county gets the low end of the funds.  There was a Facebook post, letter sent home with every student:  "Please show up on Saturday (whatever date) to help spread mulch, pull weeds, and make our school beautiful."  

I brought a wheel barrel, a weed eater, blower and both my boys to work.  Six or seven other white families showed up, three or four Hispanic families showed up.  Zero, I repeat , ZERO black families showed up.  We had 30 yards of mulch brought in, worked like hell to spread it, pulled weeds staked small trees, etc.  

A persons perspective is based on their experiences. 

ETA: guess who was first in line to get a "free" Chromebook?  

Yup. I had this discussion with my brother and I've seen it here too. Flip all the kids from the good and bad schools and the results will follow the kids. The problem starts outside of the school.

As far as the documentary goes, the key to is to understand that you are 100% getting one side of the story and it is slanted. Knowing that, there are still relevant points made. 

[Casual Observer 597]

9 hours ago, wiffleball said:

Well this retard in Kenosha who showed up from Illinois carrying a long gun. The 17 year old who killed the couple people. Shouldn't have been there in the first place. People are shouting at the cops that he shot people. And four police Bearcats cruise by him like he's one of their own? Man, I don't even believe in the whole White Privilege thing and even I had to cringe.

You're just mad that he shot and killed some pedophile.

[FlyinHeadlock 459]

Belligerent black men is a specific group of people. Collective punishment would be calling all black men belligerent which is absurd. Another absurd aspect, blaming all law enforcement for enforcing the rule of law against belligerent black men. The police will never be perfect in every single encounter in tense situations with limited reaction times. Never going to happen so demanding perfection is off the table. 

As for slavery, the civil rights movement, welfare policies and poor black communities, police today have nothing to do with any of those historical horrors. Almost nobody living today does in fact. One thing is for sure though, pointing fingers at police for all of it is the wrong course of action.  The conversation will go nowhere cherry picking certain incidents and ignoring the massive loot of good deeds police do every single day. If we are going to do this cherry picking it's going to get very ugly because it can be done on both sides. Want to blame slavery on whites then let's explore all the black slave owners in America. At one point they owned over 5,000 slaves. Let's do a real deep dive on slavery and learn together about how Muslims enslaved more people than anybody else and are still doing it.      

     

 

 

[Baker Boy 1,500]

3 hours ago, Brad GLuckman said:

Yup. I had this discussion with my brother and I've seen it here too. Flip all the kids from the good and bad schools and the results will follow the kids. The problem starts outside of the school.

As far as the documentary goes, the key to is to understand that you are 100% getting one side of the story and it is slanted. Knowing that, there are still relevant points made. 

That is not the point. There are Good parents there that want better for their kids. They need the opportunity to attend a better school where the parents care as much as they do. The bad parents are not going send their kids to a better school and the kids probably wouldn’t  go if they tried.
 

Why do you want to deprive them of this type of opportunity? 

[Brad GLuckman 518]

7 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

That is not the point. There are Good parents there that want better for their kids. They need the opportunity to attend a better school where the parents care as much as they do. The bad parents are not going send their kids to a better school and the kids probably wouldn’t  go if they tried.
 

Why do you want to deprive them of this type of opportunity? 

I was talking about school funding, not school choice.

[TBayXXXVII 2,170]

15 hours ago, peenie said:

Why aren’t Chinese people using forks and spoons? I think forks pick up rice better than chopsticks and spoons pick up soup better than chopsticks? 
 

No lie, I've always wondered that myself.

[Strike 4,073]

25 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

That is not the point. There are Good parents there that want better for their kids. They need the opportunity to attend a better school where the parents care as much as they do. The bad parents are not going send their kids to a better school and the kids probably wouldn’t  go if they tried.
 

Why do you want to deprive them of this type of opportunity? 

I've posted before about what happened in my school district when I was in high school.  I suggest you search for one of those posts.  It addresses exactly what you posted here.  That option should be available today (I was in high school in the early 80's) to any student/family who wants to take advantage of it.  Of course, Peenie wasn't impressed by the solution which shows you how much she really cares about black people.

[The Elevator Killer 497]

15 hours ago, peenie said:

Why are you all discussing blacks as if we’re all living in poverty? Why are you defining us as a group by the lowest of us: the criminal, the unemployed and the welfare mom buying scratch offs??

Valid point.

[KSB2424 3,086]

20 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

I’ll keep a tally

1. school choice

2.  Laws that suppress voting

 

[Baker Boy 1,500]

3 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Affirmative Action

[TBayXXXVII 2,170]

15 hours ago, peenie said:

Native Americans have a high poverty rate. Do you all actually believe they were poor prior to the invaders arrival? My history tells me the natives saved the colonizers and helped them though the winter. Note how the Native American, some, languish away on reservations. Is that due to their lack of moral character? Their voting habits? OR THEIR HISTORICAL CIRCUMSTANCES????!!!!

There is a commonality among ALL races (including Native Americans).  That commonality is that if you stay financially dependant on the government, you will never succeed.  If there are poor Native American reservations, explain why that is when there are so many that are prosperous.  It's because the poor ones are financially dependant on the government.  If they were aggressive in their lifestyle, they'd be more prosperous too.

[shorepatrol 1,740]

https://twitter.com/TrumpWarRoom/status/1299139195823370240?s=20

[FeelingMN 273]

Surprised KSB doesn't remember his state tried to pass election laws that were subsequently found to be discriminatory in nature.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/court-north-carolina-voter-id-law-targeted-black-voters/

So let's add voter suppression to your list.  Maybe racial profiling?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/senates-lone-black-gop-member-says-police-stopped-him-7-times-in-a-year

Here's some other things to consider as well.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-systemic-racism-in-charts-graphs-data-2020-6#one-of-the-contributing-factors-to-the-household-wealth-disparity-is-student-loans-9

[KSB2424 3,086]

Wait, how can you use voter id as an example of current institutional racism even though it’s not actually a law?  

[Baker Boy 1,500]

Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him, better take a closer look at the American Indian."

- Henry Ford

[Hardcore troubadour 12,896]

16 minutes ago, FeelingMN said:

Surprised KSB doesn't remember his state tried to pass election laws that were subsequently found to be discriminatory in nature.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/court-north-carolina-voter-id-law-targeted-black-voters/

So let's add voter suppression to your list.  Maybe racial profiling?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/senates-lone-black-gop-member-says-police-stopped-him-7-times-in-a-year

Here's some other things to consider as well.

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-systemic-racism-in-charts-graphs-data-2020-6#one-of-the-contributing-factors-to-the-household-wealth-disparity-is-student-loans-9

How come voter turnout in NYC is around 40 pct in non presidential elections, and not much better in those? Is there voter suppression happening in NYC? 

[Baker Boy 1,500]

1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

How come voter turnout in NYC is around 40 pct in non presidential elections, and not much better in those? Is there voter suppression happening in NYC? 

Black Americans claim there is, we wouldn’t know because we aren’t Black.

[FeelingMN 273]

1 minute ago, KSB2424 said:

Wait, how can you use voter id as an example of current institutional racism even though it’s not actually a law.  

So North Carolina didn't try to change election laws purely based on race?  That law was struck down because it was racist and so exemplifies systemic racism.  In general, voter suppression is an example of systemic racism:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/07/poll-prri-voter-suppression/565355/

There's literally thousands of articles out there discussing the issue.  

[FeelingMN 273]

5 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

How come voter turnout in NYC is around 40 pct in non presidential elections, and not much better in those? Is there voter suppression happening in NYC? 

Dunno.  Didn't link any articles about NYC.  I did link one detailing a racist policy in North Carolina.  Are you suggesting it was not racist?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,896]

1 minute ago, FeelingMN said:

Dunno.  Didn't link any articles about NYC.  I did link one detailing a racist policy in North Carolina.  Are you suggesting it was not racist?

I didn’t read it. It’s probably equally applied to all people, so I’ll assume it’s not racist. Is it possible that there is no voter suppression in NYC and yet they still have a low turnout, but impossible elsewhere? If it’s NYC you don’t know why the low turnout, but if it’s elsewhere it has to be racism. Got it.