War in Israel

[The Real timschochet 2,943]

Somebody is lying. 
 

The Israeli government is claiming that there is a “safe space” in south east Gaza where it has urged Palestinians to go to. “Nobody has to die,” Netanyahu said yesterday, “they can flee to the safe space and they will not be harmed. Hamas is preventing them from fleeing to the safe space so Hamas is responsible for all of the civilian deaths.” 
 

However the United Nations is claiming that south east Gaza is being bombed at an intense level and there is no “safe space”. They are backed up by most of our mainstream media, particularly MSNBC and CNN which are showing pictures and videos which apparently demonstrate that Israel is lying. 

[Engorgeous George 1,177]

3 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

It’s based on an important point. I’m very much aware of Ukraine’s Nazi history and even more pronounced, their anti-Semitic history going back to 1649. My entire family from my father’s side is from Kiev, some of them died at Babi Yar. 
 

But the current supposed Ukrainian Nazism is being overblown by Putin and those sympathetic to Putin here. First off Zelensky is Jewish. The vast majority of Ukranians have nothing whatsoever to do with Nazis. And in any case it doesn’t justify Russia’s invasion. 

On yesterday's bike ride I rode through Babi Yar Mermorial Park in Denver.  I stopped and read a bit about the massacres.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

6 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Somebody is lying. 
 

The Israeli government is claiming that there is a “safe space” in south east Gaza where it has urged Palestinians to go to. “Nobody has to die,” Netanyahu said yesterday, “they can flee to the safe space and they will not be harmed. Hamas is preventing them from fleeing to the safe space so Hamas is responsible for all of the civilian deaths.” 
 

However the United Nations is claiming that south east Gaza is being bombed at an intense level and there is no “safe space”. They are backed up by most of our mainstream media, particularly MSNBC and CNN which are showing pictures and videos which apparently demonstrate that Israel is lying. 

I don’t know why Israel would lie, unless they were intentionally committing actual genocide. I don’t put much past Netanyahu, but still, that would be a little hard for me to believe 

[Engorgeous George 1,177]

7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Somebody is lying. 
 

The Israeli government is claiming that there is a “safe space” in south east Gaza where it has urged Palestinians to go to. “Nobody has to die,” Netanyahu said yesterday, “they can flee to the safe space and they will not be harmed. Hamas is preventing them from fleeing to the safe space so Hamas is responsible for all of the civilian deaths.” 
 

However the United Nations is claiming that south east Gaza is being bombed at an intense level and there is no “safe space”. They are backed up by most of our mainstream media, particularly MSNBC and CNN which are showing pictures and videos which apparently demonstrate that Israel is lying. 

I look at U.N. statements on Israel with a jaundiced eye given the constant and inaccurate claims  welcomed there against Israel.  As forncoverage from CNN and MSNBC I wait for further confirmation given their coverage so far.  It may be true, but I doubt it as it would be very much against the self-interest of the Israel prime Minister given he is courting world opinion on this issue.  Time will tell.

[The Real timschochet 2,943]

4 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

I don’t know why Israel would lie, unless they were intentionally committing actual genocide. I don’t put much past Netanyahu, but still, that would be a little hard for me to believe 

I don’t think it’s intentional genocide. But they may very well be shading the truth. 

[The Real timschochet 2,943]

6 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

On yesterday's bike ride I rode through Babi Yar Mermorial Park in Denver.  I stopped and read a bit about the massacres.

I’m glad, generally, of the Holocaust memorials. But Denver is about as far removed from what happened at Babi Yar as just about any place on Earth I can think of. Perhaps a Sand Creek memorial would be more appropriate? (There may be one I have no idea.) 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_Creek_massacre

[Engorgeous George 1,177]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’m glad, generally, of the Holocaust memorials. But Denver is about as far removed from what happened at Babi Yar as just about any place on Earth I can think of. Perhaps a Sand Creek memorial would be more appropriate? (There may be one I have no idea.) 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_Creek_massacre

Denvere has a vibrant jewish community.  Around the area one can also find memorials to Sand Creek and Leadville.

[jerryskids 5,206]

29 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Somebody is lying

The Israeli government is claiming that there is a “safe space” in south east Gaza where it has urged Palestinians to go to. “Nobody has to die,” Netanyahu said yesterday, “they can flee to the safe space and they will not be harmed. Hamas is preventing them from fleeing to the safe space so Hamas is responsible for all of the civilian deaths.” 
 

However the United Nations is claiming that south east Gaza is being bombed at an intense level and there is no “safe space”. They are backed up by most of our mainstream media, particularly MSNBC and CNN which are showing pictures and videos which apparently demonstrate that Israel is lying. 

You really think Israel is luring Palestinian civilians to an area to bomb them on purpose, instead of just bombing them in place?  And that Israel thinks nobody would find out about this?

The UN has their entire head up Hamas's ass, it's disgusting and I increasingly think Trump was correct about it.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

The UN has their entire head up Hamas's ass, it's disgusting and I increasingly think Trump was correct about it.

I don’t think this is true. The issue is the UN doesn’t want human rights violations occurring. Certainly what Hamas did is horrible and counts as what the UN should prevent, but it is not, at least at this moment, ongoing. Whereas Israel’s destruction of Gaza is ongoing and, if you listen to Israel, may be intended to be absolute.

[HellToupee 749]

In 2022 the UN condemned Israel more than every other country combined 

since 2015 the G8 adopted 140 measures condemning Israel , the rest 68

 

the UN is an anti-Semitic organization 

[GobbleDog 816]

14 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

the UN is an anti-Semitic organization 

Thursday, the Islamic Regime in Iran will become Chair of the U.N. Human Rights Council Social Forum.

The U.N. is increasingly a joke. 

[Casual Observer 597]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Somebody is lying. 
 

The Israeli government is claiming that there is a “safe space” in south east Gaza where it has urged Palestinians to go to. “Nobody has to die,” Netanyahu said yesterday, “they can flee to the safe space and they will not be harmed. Hamas is preventing them from fleeing to the safe space so Hamas is responsible for all of the civilian deaths.” 
 

However the United Nations is claiming that south east Gaza is being bombed at an intense level and there is no “safe space”. They are backed up by most of our mainstream media, particularly MSNBC and CNN which are showing pictures and videos which apparently demonstrate that Israel is lying. 

Jews lying?  You can't be serious.

[nobody 2,044]

39 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

You really think Israel is luring Palestinian civilians to an area to bomb them on purpose, instead of just bombing them in place?  And that Israel thinks nobody would find out about this?

The UN has their entire head up Hamas's ass, it's disgusting and I increasingly think Trump was correct about it.

Hamas would be claiming a lot more than 8000 dead if that was the case.  I'm not sure why people believe anything those guys say.

[RogerDodger 797]

She probably deserved it.

 

 

 

[jerryskids 5,206]

From the NYT this weekend, the bastion of objectivity that @The Real timschochetthinks we should listen to:

Quote

As supplies of virtually every basic human necessity dwindle in Gaza, one group in the besieged enclave remains well-stocked: Hamas. Arab and Western officials say there is substance to Israeli claims of Hamas stockpiling supplies, including desperately needed food and fuel. … Hamas has hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel for vehicles and rockets; caches of ammunition, explosives and materials to make more; and stockpiles of food, water and medicine, the officials said.

A senior Lebanese official said Hamas, which is estimated to number between 35,000 and 40,000, had enough stocked away to keep fighting for three to four months without resupply. … The supply situation speaks to the relative sophistication of Hamas as a fighting force — an axiom among military professionals is that while amateurs talk about tactics, professionals talk about logistics. Yet with Gazans facing a humanitarian catastrophe, Hamas’s stockpiles raise questions about what responsibility, if any, it has to the civilian population.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/27/world/middleeast/palestine-gazans-hamas-food.html

What responsibility, if any, does Hamas have to the civilian population?  Oh, I dunno... aren't they in charge?  Apparently not when it would take away from Hamas's dream to kill every Jew in the world, it's own people be damned.

Apparently it's Israel's fault for not helping the Gazans out.   

[jerryskids 5,206]

8 minutes ago, nobody said:

Hamas would be claiming a lot more than 8000 dead if that was the case.  I'm not sure why people believe anything those guys say.

Those who actively support the rape and burning of women and children want word to get out to the Gazans that they shouldn't head to the "safe space."  

Useful idiots on the Left like Tim don't think it through.  Rather, they help spread the good word.  Allah Akbar!  

[jonnyutah 122]

Anybody supporting a ceasefire is also supporting the constant oppression of Palestinians.

[KSB2424 3,083]

57 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

Thursday, the Islamic Regime in Iran will become Chair of the U.N. Human Rights Council Social Forum.

The U.N. is increasingly a joke. 

No way.

[jonnyutah 122]

No way Hamas attacked Israel on October 7th. They signed a ceasefire agreement at the end of May. They would never break that. 

[The Real timschochet 2,943]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

Those who actively support the rape and burning of women and children want word to get out to the Gazans that they shouldn't head to the "safe space."  

Useful idiots on the Left like Tim don't think it through.  Rather, they help spread the good word.  Allah Akbar!  

You seem to be particularly upset with my views. Yet I support Israel trying to destroy Hamas. I am concerned about both the civilians who are dying as a result, especially children, and I question what the endgame strategy is supposed to be. But apparently in your eyes any doubt at all is the sign of a “useful idiot.” Whereas I would say the useful idiots are the ones who don’t question anything. 

[Gepetto 988]

3 hours ago, HellToupee said:

In 2022 the UN condemned Israel more than every other country combined 

since 2015 the G8 adopted 140 measures condemning Israel , the rest 68

 

the UN is an anti-Semitic organization 

Agreed. It's pretty obvious since this war started, everything out of the UN is anti-Israel.

[Strike 3,979]

On 10/18/2023 at 7:39 AM, The Real timschochet said:

No idea why you chose to reference me since I haven’t commented on the hospital, partly because I don’t know who is responsible, partly because I’ve tried to refrain from posting in this thread because it’s been so ugly. 
 

But I am curious: where exactly are you reading that the hospital wasn’t hit and that there may have been only a dozen or so deaths? That certainly would be news, contradicting not just the mainstream media which you so much despise but ALL of the media. Here is Reuters conforming that the hospital was hit amd hundreds are dead as a result: 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-hospital-blast-what-we-know-about-explosion-2023-10-18/

 

 

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

You seem to be particularly upset with my views. Yet I support Israel trying to destroy Hamas. I am concerned about both the civilians who are dying as a result, especially children, and I question what the endgame strategy is supposed to be. But apparently in your eyes any doubt at all is the sign of a “useful idiot.” Whereas I would say the useful idiots are the ones who don’t question anything. 

Your problem Tim is that you believe whatever you read as long as it comes from a @The Real timschochet approved source.  Critical thinking eludes you.  There is no issue with doubt.  It's WHAT you doubt that is the problem, as in the example above where you were still clinging to your MSM narrative about the hospital being bombed when there was a LOT of data showing that to not be true. 

[jonnyutah 122]

28 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

Agreed. It's pretty obvious since this war started, everything out of the UN is anti-Israel.

Hamas does not allow a free press, so if the press is there it is obviously slanted. 

If the world's press has any integrity left, they would completely shun all stories coming out of Gaza. Instead they lap them all up. 

 

[wiffleball 4,643]

The Israeli Special Forces used to train in Krav Maga, but changed its martial art of choice to

 

 

Jew Jitsu

 

Oy!

[The Real timschochet 2,943]

1 hour ago, Strike said:

 

Your problem Tim is that you believe whatever you read as long as it comes from a @The Real timschochet approved source.  Critical thinking eludes you.  There is no issue with doubt.  It's WHAT you doubt that is the problem, as in the example above where you were still clinging to your MSM narrative about the hospital being bombed when there was a LOT of data showing that to not be true. 

I don’t think there was ever any evidence that the hospital wasn’t bombed. It was simply never confirmed who did it. Turns out it wasn’t Israel which is very good news. 
I entirely reject your premise that, because I trust the MSM as a general rule, that somehow indicates a lack of critical thinking. 

[IGotWorms 3,315]

15 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t think there was ever any evidence that the hospital wasn’t bombed. It was simply never confirmed who did it. Turns out it wasn’t Israel which is very good news. 
I entirely reject your premise that, because I trust the MSM as a general rule, that somehow indicates a lack of critical thinking. 

Probably semantics to some degree, but a parking lot right next to the hospital was hit, rather than the hospital itself, albeit with plenty of blast damage to the hospital as well

[RogerDodger 797]

Any reasonable definition of "bombed" suggests a designated target.  The hospital was not bombed.  Some parts of a rocket, that was launched from within Gaza that blew up mid-air, landed in the parking lot.

100% lack of critical thinking.  Or just flat out lying again.

[Mark Davis 169]

Apparently some fuel has gotten into Gaza as they have plenty to fuel all these rockets being launched.  The view that if we let fuel in those hospitals would get it is fanciful.  Fuel is already there, Hamas has just commandeered it all

[Mark Davis 169]

I'm wondering how long it is before President El-Sisi is labeled an Islamophobe for not wanting the Palestinians coming into Egypt.  It's either he is a raving Islamophobe, or he realizes how radicalized that populace has become.

[RogerDodger 797]

 

 

[Strike 3,979]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t think there was ever any evidence that the hospital wasn’t bombed. It was simply never confirmed who did it. Turns out it wasn’t Israel which is very good news. 
I entirely reject your premise that, because I trust the MSM as a general rule, that somehow indicates a lack of critical thinking. 

You're missing the point.  You chose to believe a false narrative that the hospital had been bombed and, in your own words, "hundreds" of people had died when there was ZERO evidence that was the case.  In fact, at the time of your post there was as LOT of media, including some MSM but apparently not any you read, questioning the event.  Yet you still chose to believe it was true.  According to your quote, "ALL" of the media believed this.  Funny how I was right and ALL of the media was wrong on that one, huh?  Or maybe you're wrong when you state that all of the media believed the story about the hospital being bombed and hundreds of people dieing.  Maybe I should be your media since apparently I'm far more accurate than they are. 

[Strike 3,979]

1 hour ago, RogerDodger said:

Any reasonable definition of "bombed" suggests a designated target.  The hospital was not bombed.  Some parts of a rocket, that was launched from within Gaza that blew up mid-air, landed in the parking lot.

100% lack of critical thinking.  Or just flat out lying again.

No, no.  ALLLLLL of the media believed the hospital was bombed.  It's amazing we found out the truth when ALLLLL of the media believed it was bombed.

[HellToupee 749]

 

[Gepetto 988]

36 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

 

 

The White House should be asked if they will transport the Palestinians living in the United States TO the Gaza strip. I would applaud that.

[MDC 5,892]

6 minutes ago, HellToupee said:

 

Amazing how anyone could be stupid enough to fall for this. Hamas is holding less than 300 total hostages and our State Dept says a handful are believed to be American. Ffs.

[RogerDodger 797]

5 minutes ago, MDC said:

Amazing how anyone could be stupid enough to fall for this. Hamas is holding less than 300 total hostages and our State Dept says a handful are believed to be American. Ffs.

Taking the blame it on Israel angle coupled with Hamas is going to cooperate in opening up the border and allow them to walk out?

Quote

Separately, the Biden administration believes that about 500 Americans are trapped inside Gaza, not as hostages but because they were there when the Hamas attack occurred and have been unable to leave amid the Israeli military’s retaliation. U.S. officials are working to secure a safe passage out of Gaza for Americans via the Rafah border crossing into Egypt, but it had not yet opened as of Friday. That initiative depends on the cooperation of the Egyptian government, Hamas and Israel

 

[RogerDodger 797]

12 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

The White House should be asked if they will transport the Palestinians living in the United States TO the Gaza strip. I would applaud that.

Prisoner swap. 250,000 for 500.  Good deal for them.  

[GutterBoy 2,281]

So they're not hostages.  Spectrum boy has no idea what he's saying anymore.

[MDC 5,892]

2 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

Taking the blame it on Israel angle coupled with Hamas is going to cooperate in opening up the border and allow them to walk out?

Did you even read your own link? Ffs.  

[RogerDodger 797]

1 minute ago, GutterBoy said:

So they're not hostages.  Spectrum boy has no idea what he's saying anymore.

Tiny Brain and his words again.  I didn't call them hostages, Sen Marsha Blackburn did. 

 

But interested in your definition too.  Let's hear it.   j/k not really.