The *** OFFICIAL *** Presidential Debate Thread!

[IGotWorms 4,058]

I really liked what Romney said, which paraphrased was: my job is to set the vision and then sit down with folks on both sides, like Reagan did with Tip and I did in Mass, and hammer out the details so that we all walk away happy. This is how successful people do things in the real world.

 

Sounds nice, but it provides absolutely no glimpse of what Romney's plans are.

 

When he sits down to talk about taxes, what is HIS proposal going to be to cut 5 trillion yet remain "revenue neutral"? We don't know.

 

When he sits down to "replace" obamacare, what will be HIS proposal? We have no idea.

 

About the only thing we do know for sure is his proposal on Medicare, which is to win election by not cutting current benefits and then gutting the program for everyone down the road through a voucher system.

 

You gotta start somewhere in negotiations. Just saying "I'll work with congress to keep.my proposed 5 trillion dollar tax cut revenue neutral" is not nearly enough. What proposal is he going to come to the table with? Is that really so much to ask?

[Strike 5,570]

 

When he sits down to "replace" obamacare, what will be HIS proposal? We have no idea.

 

 

Yes, we do know what his proposal is. He laid it out pretty clearly. Sorry if you missed it.

[WahooJim 4]

Romney's plan, which he stated repeatedly last night, is to reduce everyone's nominal tax rate (much like TRA of 1986 did) but remove loopholes and limit deductions that could/should/may keep the total gross receipts from income taxes about the same. He also said (believe it or not, depending on your philosophical bent on economics) that gross receipts would go up because of an increase in employment and more people in the tax rolls.

 

I was very surprised that Obama also agreed with Romney that our corporate tax rates are too high. It may be a consistent position for him, but I was not aware he felt that way.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Hey Worms, you have ignored this question about a dozen times: Where is Obama': detailed plan for ANYTHING for a second term?

 

"Forward" doesn't include many details.

 

Feel free to ignore this yet again, but at least STFU about Romney not giving you every deduction he plans on eliminating until you ask the same of your Hero. He has been President for four years. He is expected to have some detailed plans by now.

[MicktheGreat 1]

Romney offered plenty of substance. If you didn't see it you weren't listening. You may not believe him, and fact checking will certainly show that he exaggerated some things, but to say he didn't offer substance would be wrong. Obama stuck to talking points. Romney outlined his plans clearly and concisely. That's one of the main reasons he won the debate. When you listened to Obama all you heard were platitudes and attacks. Romney spoke about his plans and, when he did tell Obama "No I'm not", he explained why. Again, whether you believe him is up to you. But he did offer specifics and substance.

I don't think so, and I was watching/listening very closely. As I said, I'm pretty moderate politically and don't really feel very strongly about either candidate. What I heard from both sides was a lot of political-speak, with a heavy dose of generality, and a sprinkle of anecdotal rubbish -- e.g. "Six [unnamed] studies said this. Some [amorphous] business owner told me this story. Some [token] mother with a baby shared a sad situation. I've visited [insert Rust-Belt City] and [insert small Midwest Town] and talked to these random, archetypal individuals who represent [insert issue]. Here's a massive number that is so large that it doesn't really mean anything aside from the realm of the conceptual. Etc. etc. etc." Those are classic, expected rhetorical moves that don't preclude substance but also don't encourage it. And BOTH candidates did this last night with regularity.

 

And, like I said, I don't really view this as a fault on Romney or Obama so much as (A.) Lehrer's really vague, broad, worthless questions which inspired nothing but really vague, broad, worthless answers from the candidates; & (B.) this debate-format which promotes empty sound-bytes for the media rather than real political discourse. Both candidates are smart guys, and I think they do actually have plans that they could/should discuss; but this isn't a venue that promotes such an exchange of ideas and this wasn't the moderator to keep them focused on anything.

 

[The quintessential moment that summed-up how poorly this debate was run last night was Lehrer's question that asked each candidate to describe the role of government in two minutes. Really? Describe philosophically/theoretically how the government should respond to various complex and important domestic issues/problems/etc. in two minutes? Ugh. I'm pretty sure that I literally did a face-palm when I heard that.]

 

[BudBro 183]

who prepared obama for that debacle? they could've hung out here for the last 30 days and been better ready. at least watch the romney campaign ads to have some idea about something. obama doesn't look healthy. something's wrong.

[Strike 5,570]

who prepared obama for that debacle? they could've hung out here for the last 30 days and been better ready. at least watch the romney campaign ads to have some idea about something. obama doesn't look healthy. something's wrong.

 

John Kerry

 

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Romney's plan, which he stated repeatedly last night, is to reduce everyone's nominal tax rate (much like TRA of 1986 did) but remove loopholes and limit deductions that could/should/may keep the total gross receipts from income taxes about the same.

 

Studies have said that this is literally impossible. Romney didn't point to what loopholes he would close or how it is, in fact, possible to make up 5 trillion dollars by cutting loopholes alone.

[BudBro 183]

Studies have said that this is literally impossible. Romney didn't point to what loopholes he would close or how it is, in fact, possible to make up 5 trillion dollars by cutting loopholes alone.

one great way to reduce the deficit by $5 trillion is to go back in time and not elect bho. another good way to avoid $5 more trillion is to not elect him this time. i really love it when obama says he's going to reduce the deficit by $4 trillion, which wouldn't even cover his portion of the bill.

[TheBlade 3]

What I fail to see there is any actual explanation of how his proposed tax cuts would NOT cost 5 trillion. Like I said, he basically just said "trust me, it won't."

A point that I think is important is that Romney hammered home the concept that his #1 priority is to create jobs. One of the big ways he'll try to do this is by reducing the effective tax rates on small business and the middle class while simultaneously reducing deductions and closing loopholes. Obama kept harping on the point that he couldn't cover the tax cuts through closing the loopholes, there simply isn't enough money there.

 

The elephant in the room that Obama never saw was that if Romney is successful in creating jobs, he'll increase the tax base. That will allow him to reduce the effective rate while remaining revenue neutral. He can recoup some of the revenue through the closed loopholes and reduced deductions and recoup some from an increase in the tax base.

 

Based on Romney's strong stance last night that he would not allow a reduction that led to an increase in the deficit, I suspect that he'd have a sliding scale of some sort. Start with reductions that are covered by closed loopholes and decreased deductions. As those spur the economy and job growth, he can look at further lowering of the effective rates that will be covered by more people back in the workforce, earning money, and paying taxes.

[mmmmm...beer 807]

I really liked what Romney said, which paraphrased was: my job is to set the vision and then sit down with folks on both sides, like Reagan did with Tip and I did in Mass, and hammer out the details so that we all walk away happy. This is how successful people do things in the real world.

 

Yeah this was huge to me as well and I really think it played to more people than we think.

 

Essentially... "Listen... I'm the freakin boss here. I set the idology and then we bring everyone in here and figure out how to get this done bipartisan. I'm not going to mandate something with one party and then shove it down your throat like you, nancy, and harry did with obamacare."

 

Wow...actually trying to work together? How novel. I actually had some pretty lefty people admit today they liked that part. Seriously... everyone is so focking tired of a divided America..

[drobeski 3,061]

The GOP has set the bar so low for Romney that if he can chuckle awkwardly for an hour and a half, mention "America" a few times, and not completely bash and denigrate almost 50 percent of the United States.... I think FOXNews and the FFToday Republican Housewives Club will declare a major victory

 

 

I predict no real stances on anything from Romney...per usual... maybe some vague mutterings on RomneyCare, err. ObamaCare

I predict he will continue to give us no real reasons why we should turn the plane back over to the dipsh!t pilots who left it spiraling downward at rapid speed four years ago...

I predict you are slow dancing while sulking and blaring some sad 80's tunes.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Yeah this was huge to me as well and I really think it played to more people than we think.

 

Essentially... "Listen... I'm the freakin boss here. I set the idology and then we bring everyone in here and figure out how to get this done bipartisan. I'm not going to mandate something with one party and then shove it down your throat like you, nancy, and harry did with obamacare."

 

Wow...actually trying to work together? How novel. I actually had some pretty lefty people admit today they liked that part. Seriously... everyone is so focking tired of a divided America..

 

I'd like to see a more united America too, but I fail to see how electing Romney is going to do that. Especially when his primary goal is to repeal laws that Democrats just recently passed.

[cbfalcon 825]

I'd like to see a more united America too, but I fail to see how electing Romney is going to do that. Especially when his primary goal is to repeal laws that Democrats just recently passed.

 

[drobeski 3,061]

I'd like to see a more united America too, but I fail to see how electing Romney is going to do that. Especially when his primary goal is to repeal laws that Democrats just recently passed.

You mean the laws the democrats forced down our throats like the complete partisan hacks they are ?

[peenie 1,915]

if romney wins the country won't be divided anymore because the president will be white again.

[TD Ryan2 316]

so here's how it all stacks up to this point:

 

1. Conventions.

Dems get last at bat and a boost from clinton

Dems go up a tick

 

2. 47%

Romney's gaffe is bad. Looks like Romney has no chance now.

Dems with a commanding lead.

 

3. Debate 1

Dems play prevent, Romney kills them.

Romney campaign is ressurrected.

 

Romney was out of this.

He still has a ways to go.

Will Ryan thump Biden in the debate? Can Romney do it again in Debate 2? Not sure. But this race isn't over yet.

 

Winning Lines/Themes from Romney last night:

- you want to tax your way out of deficit. You say I want to cut my way out, but that's not true... I want to grow our way out with new jobs, new taxpayers, and the new revenue from it all. It's not just a case of tax vs. cut Mr. President, growth is an option - it's how we do it in the private sector.

 

- I do care about schools and education. Why do you think MA schools are #1 in the nation?

 

- I am not for cutting taxes for the wealthy, I am for bolstering the middle class, the small businesses. What I am not for is Trickle Down Government.

 

- you're against these breaks and subsidies for the Oil Industry but you just gave FIFT YEARS WORTH of breaks to green energy... FIFTY YEARS... the government shouldn't be picking favorites, picking winners and losers... and Mr. President, all you've done is pick losers.

 

 

 

-

[remote controller 143]

Is Matthew's trying out for Comedy central?

 

http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/03/post-debate-msnbcs-chris-matthews-lapses-into-panic-mode/

[Strike 5,570]

if romney wins the country won't be divided anymore because the president will be white again.

 

Why are you always such a racist?

[drobeski 3,061]

if romney wins the country won't be divided anymore because the president will be white again.

Well, he wont play the race card any chance he can. Thats for sure, thats reserved for racists like Obama.

[remote controller 143]

if romney wins the country won't be divided anymore because the president will be white again.

.....and you believe this??? I guess there was no division while Bush was President???.....or Clinton....or reagan??? This guy has just proven to be totally incompetent.

[MDC 7,480]

You mean the laws the democrats forced down our throats like the complete partisan hacks they are ?

 

The only thing getting forced down your throat is Ramone's fat purple boner.

[KSB2424 3,148]

For anyone interested, here is a quick 2 minute highlight video from the debate:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ti2S7Py25w&feature=player_embedded

[drobeski 3,061]

The only thing getting forced down your throat is Ramone's fat purple boner.

cant with your head in the way

[BudBro 183]

if romney wins the country won't be divided anymore because the president will be white again.

the economic environment for blacks has gotten worse under obama. why would any black person vote to continue down that road? black people should be yelling the loudest for new leadership.

[Phurfur 70]

if romney wins the country won't be divided anymore because the president will be white again.

 

At least I will be able to criticize my President without being called a racist.

[BudBro 183]

the president wakes up in better mood, makes excuses again and blames romney for not knowing anything about romney. here's the liar in chief we were expecting last night.

 

obama takes shots at romney after last nights beating...teleprompter back in place to help him think

[peenie 1,915]

[parrot 789]

I went from I'm not voting for either to maybe I'd go for Romney. It isn't certain yet. But He clearly handed Obama is arse.

I only watched the first half-hour or so, but this is where I am as well.

[Gandalfs Fireworks 2]

I was just watching highlights of this because I couldn't be in front of a TV last night.

 

Thought it hilarious to hear Obama saying "As Abraham Lincoln knew, there are some things we do better together."

Yeah, but Honest Abe's idea was WHITES doing it together, not blacks and whites. Obama doesn't know his history on Lincoln?

 

Lincoln was very *honest* about not liking blacks, considering them inferior to whites and believing they would squander freedom. Its laughable that Obama is citing him in any way.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

 

http://www.bromygod.com/2012/10/04/the-internet-responds-to-romneys-big-bird-moment/

[WahooJim 4]

.....and you believe this??? I guess there was no division while Bush was President???.....or Clinton....or reagan??? This guy has just proven to be totally incompetent.

 

You should have Sux check your sarcasm meter. I think it's broken. Peenie just made a funny, and I thought it was very appropriate. And funny.

[jerryskids 6,827]

 

http://www.bromygod....ig-bird-moment/

 

Yo Mitt Romney, Sesame Street is brought to you today by the letters F & U! #debates #SupportBigBird

 

[Bill E. 703]

One point that R made that is not discussed is how he worked well with an 80+% Dem majority State Senate to pass their healthcare bill while O worked around the election of Scott Brown in Mass to force through Obamacare. I think it was a point that he has to hammer home in the future since most moderates are tired of gridlock. I don't know if he will or can work with a Democrat lead Senate but O has not even tried to work with the Repubs. The way he, Harry and Nancy forced through Obamacare when Scott Brown was elected was pretty sad.

 

I was with my family in PA watching the debate and they are 60/40 Dems. All the Dems in the room were all pumped up beforehand and sulking afterwards. Anyone who did not see O as the clear loser is in denial.

[parrot 789]

 

I was with my family in PA watching the debate and they are 60/40 Dems. All the Dems in the room were all pumped up beforehand and sulking afterwards. Anyone who did not see O as the clear loser is in denial.

 

People honestly get pumped up for a political debate? There's some strange fockers in the world.

 

I think it's been asked, but I don't know if it ever got answered; did Romney ever give any specifics on these "loopholes" he's going to close? Nothing sounds simpler; everyone loves the idea of closing loopholes, as long as they aren't the ones that benefit them.

[NewbieJr 541]

People honestly get pumped up for a political debate? There's some strange fockers in the world.

 

I think it's been asked, but I don't know if it ever got answered; did Romney ever give any specifics on these "loopholes" he's going to close? Nothing sounds simpler; everyone loves the idea of closing loopholes, as long as they aren't the ones that benefit them.

Of course not. He didn't give any specifics about anything. That's the huge advantage he has in all of this. He can promise to cut the deficit, create jobs, help the middle class, fix health care, and give every american a new puppy. He doesn't even have to explain how he's going to do it. He just has to say he has a better idea or that Obama is nad. It's like watching RP up there. No ideas. Just telling everyone how bad things are.

[jerryskids 6,827]

Taiwanese animators summarize debate

 

[Strike 5,570]

Taiwanese animators summarize debate

 

 

They just had to work in a Gangham Style reference didn't they?

 

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Of course not. He didn't give any specifics about anything. That's the huge advantage he has in all of this. He can promise to cut the deficit, create jobs, help the middle class, fix health care, and give every american a new puppy. He doesn't even have to explain how he's going to do it. He just has to say he has a better idea or that Obama is nad. It's like watching RP up there. No ideas. Just telling everyone how bad things are.

Hope & Change was chock full of details, huh Ducky?

 

Forward!!!!

 

 

 

What a rube.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

The debate next week is gonna be fun.