Ferguson - Grand Jury has reached their decision.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Another person with a reading comprehension problem. I am NOT "trying to put this on officer Wilson." The grand jury has spoken and he committed no chargeable offense. Period.

 

All I'm saying is the fact that the kid was walking in the middle of the street has about .01% to do with what happened that day

Actually, counselor, it is you with the reading comprehension problem. No where did I mention YOUR name, no where did I call YOU out specifically. I said "people" - so if indeed you don't feel this way then I wasn't talking to or about you. You assumed - huh, wonder why...

[NorthernVike 2,080]

Another person with a reading comprehension problem. I am NOT "trying to put this on officer Wilson." The grand jury has spoken and he committed no chargeable offense. Period.

 

All I'm saying is the fact that the kid was walking in the middle of the street has about .01% to do with what happened that day

How is it that everyone else has a problem but you. Think about it.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I did not read that from anything KSB posted.

Neither did I. I have no idea where this came from, but I have not committed every post to memory.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

All I'm saying is the fact that the kid was walking in the middle of the street has about .01% to do with what happened that day

Either .01% or 100% or somewhere in the middle. What about the evidence that Brown was probably high?

 

Why do a get the feeling that a VERY SILENT portion of the community is probably rejoicing that a very large, no good, thief thug is off the streets?

[KSB2424 3,083]

Neither did I. I have no idea where this came from, but I have not committed every post to memory.

 

Of course that's not what I said, who in their right mind would say that a person deserves to be shot because they walk down the middle of the road.

 

What I said was that it is just one of several actions that validates the assumption M.Brown didn't give an F about much that day. And a person who doesn't give an F about store clerks, the law, motorists having to go around you because you are walking down the middle of the road, is a person in the state of mind that would actually attack a police man. Attacking the police man is what ultimately got him shot.

[Frank M 181]

Frank - I think the general malaise and and anger of the lower and crumbling middle class plays a role in all this.

People are p!ssed off (rightfully so in some cases) that the 'systems' (economic, justice, healthcare, etc) are failing us.

 

Right.

 

 

There are major cultural differences in the black community that can only be addressed in that community, but we can't deny that institutional racism over the years has played a major role in the attitudes of the black community. I think awareness of the problem has helped some, but there is still a large racial divide in this county that I don't know how we begin to address.

 

That being said, the way to not to address it is violent protest, as that only enforces the perception outside of the black community that all blacks act that way, and that certainly is not the case.

 

Nobody is responsible for the fact that your life sucks. I've seen way too many examples of people pulling themselves out of poverty to believe that you have no shot if you're poor, black, immigrant, whatever. The system is not perfect, but you are responsible for who you are and what you do.

 

Michael Brown was an 18 year old. He was responsible for his actions, nobody else. Protesting as a way to raise awareness that another life was lost senselessly is a good thing. Burning things down because you're pissed is bad.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Of course that's not what I said, who in their right mind would say that a person deserves to be shot because they walk down the middle of the road.

 

What I said was that it is just one of several actions that validates the assumption M.Brown didn't give an F about much that day. And a person who doesn't give an F about store clerks, the law, motorists having to go around you because you are walking down the middle of the road, is a person in the state of mind that would actually attack a police man. Attacking the police man is what ultimately got him shot.

That is what I got out what you posted up to this point. Not sure how Worms took it to mean anything else. Maybe he is tired from all of the protesting he did last night.

[IGotWorms 3,319]

Actually, counselor, it is you with the reading comprehension problem. No where did I mention YOUR name, no where did I call YOU out specifically. I said "people" - so if indeed you don't feel this way then I wasn't talking to or about you. You assumed - huh, wonder why...

Maybe because of the post you were responding to?

[Voltaire 4,564]

Another person with a reading comprehension problem. I am NOT "trying to put this on officer Wilson." The grand jury has spoken and he committed no chargeable offense. Period.

 

All I'm saying is the fact that the kid was walking in the middle of the street has about .01% to do with what happened that day

Really? How many police officers do you know of that stop people who are walking on the sidewalk vs how many you know of that stop them walking down the middle of the street?

 

I'd wager the ratio is about a hundred bajillion to one.

 

Otherwise, the only way the confrontation happens is if Wilson was investigating the stolen cigars. Chances are great he would have just driven by if the the dumbfocking thief wasn't calling unnecessary attention to himself.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Maybe because of the post you were responding to?

I responded to Pats - not you. Again, you assumed.

[IGotWorms 3,319]

That is what I got out what you posted up to this point. Not sure how Worms took it to mean anything else. Maybe he is tired from all of the protesting he did last night.

In bed by 8:00pm because I have a baby who gets up at 4.

 

As much as you might like to paint me as a commie pinko white-guilt ridden moonbat, I'm just a guy getting by in the suburbs like everyone else.

 

But I don't think a person walking in the street is some significant sign that they'll probably have to be put down. Christ, talk about the pvssification of America. Pissant suburbanites wetting their knickers because a teenager DISRESPECTED AUTHORITY.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Maybe because of the post you were responding to?

He was responding to my post, Fockchop. You might want to take a timeout.

[Baker Boy 1,485]

In bed by 8:00pm because I have a baby who gets up at 4.

As much as you might like to paint me as a commie pinko white-guilt ridden moonbat, I'm just a guy getting by in the suburbs like everyone else.

But I don't think a person walking in the street is some significant sign that they'll probably have to be put down. Christ, talk about the pvssification of America. Pissant suburbanites wetting their knickers because a teenager DISRESPECTED AUTHORITY.

Instead of P&M on a message board you and all the idiots out there demonstrating should have looked into the grand jury results. The evidence brought before the Grand Jury is such a slam dunk in favor of Wilson there should be no discussion.

[drobeski 3,061]

Holy schit, the facts blowing the agenda driven theory out of the water really has made the agenda minded fake outrage crowd go wacko.

[TD Ryan2 314]

But I don't think a person walking in the street is some significant sign that they'll probably have to be put down.

strawman

 

nobody else thinks this either worms

 

it is a sign that someone may be up to trouble or no good - to what degree we don't know

[IGotWorms 3,319]

Really? How many police officers do you know of that stop people who are walking on the sidewalk vs how many you know of that stop them walking down the middle of the street?

 

I'd wager the ratio is about a hundred bajillion to one.

 

Otherwise, the only way the confrontation happens is if Wilson was investigating the stolen cigars. Chances are great he would have just driven by if the the dumbfocking thief wasn't calling unnecessary attention to himself.

We have a concept in the law called causation. There is but-for causation, which is what you are talking about, and there is proximate cause, which is what actually matters and asks "about how much did this event contribute to the harm that followed"?

 

In terms of the overall issue of Officer Wilson shooting the kid, walking in the road was certainly a but-for cause. But proximate cause? Like I said, probably .01%.

 

Put differently: how many people walking in the road are eventually shot by a police officer? Probably not too many because it's a pretty minor thing in and of itself

[IGotWorms 3,319]

He was responding to my post, Fockchop. You might want to take a timeout.

And you were responding to mine. He then jumps in and says "yeah I hate all these people blaming officer wilson." Clearly that related to me to some extent and you know this, because you're not a focking idiot

[Cruzer 1,992]

strawman

 

nobody else thinks this either worms

This seems to be the disconnect..... Those outraged want to believe Brown was shot bcoz he was 'just' walking down the middle of the street. Everyone else understands that part of it had nothing to do with the shooting. Everyone else understands Brown was shot bcoz he attacked and went after an officer.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

And you were responding to mine. He then jumps in and says "yeah I hate all these people blaming officer wilson." Clearly that related to me to some extent and you know this, because you're not a focking idiot

You have convinced me. Finally.

 

 

 

 

 

Now I KNOW that you are trolling.

[IGotWorms 3,319]

strawman

 

nobody else thinks this either worms

 

it is a sign that someone may be up to trouble or no good - to what degree we don't know

Is it a sign that person may draw the attention of a passing-by police officer? Sure.

 

Is it a sign that person may have some ticket in their future? Yes.

 

Is it a sign that person is going to assault a police officer, try to take his service weapon, and then turn around and charge the officer who has his gun drawn? Unlikely. Exceedingly unlikely, in fact.

[IGotWorms 3,319]

This seems to be the disconnect..... Those outraged want to believe Brown was shot bcoz he was 'just' walking down the middle of the street. Everyone else understands that part of it had nothing to do with the shooting. Everyone else understands Brown was shot bcoz he attacked and went after an officer.

There he goes again!

 

Still convinced this is not at all in reference to me, PFB?

[Cruzer 1,992]

There he goes again!

 

Still convinced this is not at all in reference to me, PFB?

You seem to be obsessed with what it is I have to say. Why, I don't know - doesn't matter. In any event - I will ask you this, not sure your head can take another minute or two of you slapping it.

 

Do you believe Brown was shot bcoz he was walking down the street? If you do, then yes - I'm talking about you. If the answer is no, then I'm not.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

I think the general malaise and and anger of the lower and crumbling middle class plays a role in all this.

People are p!ssed off (rightfully so in some cases) that the 'systems' (economic, justice, healthcare, etc) are failing us.

Yes, but it's only the people who were sold on (and bought rather easily) an idea that had little or no chance of coming true.

[KSB2424 3,083]

You have convinced me. Finally.

 

 

 

 

 

Now I KNOW that you are trolling.

 

He has to be, just has to.

 

:walksawayfromthreadwhileshakinghead:

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

There he goes again!

 

Still convinced this is not at all in reference to me, PFB?

I think that you are taking any post that is contrary to what you are thinking that it is about you. It isn't. This is not a two person dialogue. It is a bored with several folks that are involved in the discussion and part of the discussion is about people outside of the bored.

[mmmmm...beer 691]

Is this the thread where everyone is an expert on cops, shooting, traffic laws, strong armed robbery, forensics, grand juries, and probable cause?

 

Sweet.... I was hoping there was a place I could come to be informed!

[Vikings4ever 496]

I have to semi-agree with Worms in that I'd be surprised if Wilson's story was 100% true. For example, I doubt he had the presence of mind to discard his baton and mace as options. With his left hand grabbing onto Brown's arm, he almost certainly grabbed for the first weapon that was available to his right hand, his gun.

 

That being said, the physical evidence is much, much friendlier to the pro-Wilson witnesses than it is to the anti-Wilson witnesses. And, when witnesses have such a variety of statements, you have to give credence to the ones whose statements are supported by physical evidence, and doubt the ones whose statements are refuted by the physical evidence.

[Voltaire 4,564]

We have a concept in the law called causation. There is but-for causation, which is what you are talking about, and there is proximate cause, which is what actually matters and asks "about how much did this event contribute to the harm that followed"?

 

In terms of the overall issue of Officer Wilson shooting the kid, walking in the road was certainly a but-for cause. But proximate cause? Like I said, probably .01%.

 

Put differently: how many people walking in the road are eventually shot by a police officer? Probably not too many because it's a pretty minor thing in and of itself

I don't know what this means but I know enough logic to be pretty sure you're confused. As this situation ended with somebody shot, it doesn't matter what the odds are of jaywalkers getting killed. In this one instance it was 50% of them got killed.

 

See, there's no confrontation between Wilson and Brown if Brown wasn't walking down the middle of the street. It was precisely the walking down the middle of the street bit that triggered the chain of events to unfold. In a scenario that put Brown on the sidewalk, Wilson drives by. Cops don't care if you're on the sidewalk. If you're in the middle of the street, it's his job to get you on the sidewalk. In essence, with Brown in the middle of the street the chances that Wilson stops and confronts Brown goes from 0% to 99%.

[edjr 5,570]

I have to semi-agree with Worms in that I'd be surprised if Wilson's story was 100% true. For example, I doubt he had the presence of mind to discard his baton and mace as options. With his left hand grabbing onto Brown's arm, he almost certainly grabbed for the first weapon that was available to his right hand, his gun.

 

That being said, the physical evidence is much, much friendlier to the pro-Wilson witnesses than it is to the anti-Wilson witnesses. And, when witnesses have such a variety of statements, you have to give credence to the ones whose statements are supported by physical evidence, and doubt the ones whose statements are refuted by the physical evidence.

 

Cops LIE. Fact.

[BiPolarBear 476]

Is this the thread where everyone is an expert on cops, shooting, traffic laws, strong armed robbery, forensics, grand juries, and probable cause?

 

Sweet.... I was hoping there was a place I could come to be informed!

 

Yes, we are here for you man.

 

I don't know much, but I guess I always figured that if I wrestled a cop for his gun or charged him on the street, I could be killed. I don't think being white would help me much.

[Baker Boy 1,485]

I have to semi-agree with Worms in that I'd be surprised if Wilson's story was 100% true. For example, I doubt he had the presence of mind to discard his baton and mace as options. With his left hand grabbing onto Brown's arm, he almost certainly grabbed for the first weapon that was available to his right hand, his gun.

 

That being said, the physical evidence is much, much friendlier to the pro-Wilson witnesses than it is to the anti-Wilson witnesses. And, when witnesses have such a variety of statements, you have to give credence to the ones whose statements are supported by physical evidence, and doubt the ones whose statements are refuted by the physical evidence.

 

There were multiple eye witnesses whose story agreed with Wilson while the "hands up" people told different stories to the police and the Grand Jury. Read the evidence people!

[HenryHill9323 65]

How is it that everyone else has a problem but you. Think about it.

Worms usually just doubles down on the stupid. He is really outdoing himself today.

[KSB2424 3,083]

I have to semi-agree with Worms in that I'd be surprised if Wilson's story was 100% true. For example, I doubt he had the presence of mind to discard his baton and mace as options. With his left hand grabbing onto Brown's arm, he almost certainly grabbed for the first weapon that was available to his right hand, his gun.

 

That being said, the physical evidence is much, much friendlier to the pro-Wilson witnesses than it is to the anti-Wilson witnesses. And, when witnesses have such a variety of statements, you have to give credence to the ones whose statements are supported by physical evidence, and doubt the ones whose statements are refuted by the physical evidence.

 

Well sure. I would venture to guess that any 'witness' has a version of events that are more than likely spun a certain way or certain details exaggerated. That is by in large human nature to do so. I think its pretty common knowledge you can have two people watch the same event and get two different versions even if both are being 100% honest.

 

The prosecuter actually spoke to that in his 'speech'. Something along those lines in his speech: "we take all the witness testimony, but make sure it cohhorborates with the other evidence such as forensics, physical evidence, the story doesn't change, yada yada"

[HenryHill9323 65]

 

 

But I don't think a person walking in the street is some significant sign that they'll probably have to be put down.

You are the only one here who has said anything remotely like this.

 

[Vikings4ever 496]

There were multiple eye witnesses whose story agreed with Wilson while the "hands up" people told different stories to the police and the Grand Jury. Read the evidence people!

Read my post.

 

I do think the basics of Wilson's story are true. The grand jury made the right decision, and no impartial jury in the world would convict. But I seriously doubt there weren't details that were embellished, consciously or unconsciously. Such as my example of Wilson claiming he was able to discard his mace and his baton as options in the car.

[drobeski 3,061]

 

Cops LIE. Fact.

not all cops Fact

physical evidence doesn't 100% of the time

FACT-O-MUNDO

[Voltaire 4,564]

 

Yes, we are here for you man.

 

I don't know much, but I guess I always figured that if I wrestled a cop for his gun or charged him on the street, I could be killed. I don't think being white would help me much.

I clicked "like this." It's beautiful. I'm going to keep this in the back of my head and I really, really hope I get an opportunity to use this in the future. It's catnip that I'd love to throw out at some Brown sympathizes and see what reaction I could get.

[edjr 5,570]

not all cops Fact

physical evidence doesn't 100% of the time

FACT-O-MUNDO

 

Ah yes.

 

if a woman called the police on you and said you hit her, but you did not and she bashes her own head off the wall a few times. Nice physical evidence there. Never lies, right?

[Voltaire 4,564]

 

Ah yes.

 

if a woman called the police on you and said you hit her, but you did not and she bashes her own head off the wall a few times. Nice physical evidence there. Never lies, right?

That strategy worked with that boss in Fight Club.

[mmmmm...beer 691]

 

Yes, we are here for you man.

 

I don't know much, but I guess I always figured that if I wrestled a cop for his gun or charged him on the street, I could be killed. I don't think being white would help me much.

Thanks man. See there's this myth out there of an "unarmed man". That guy can't be shot. Wrongo... if a dude is swinging on me and kicking my ass I have every right to defend and shoot him. Cause guess what, that time he punches me and I go down, he's got my gun and puts one in my head. Sorry thuggy mcthuggerson... I have kids to go home to.

 

The unarmed man... bah... every time a cop gets swung on its a fight involving a gun, the officers. 99% of the time it stays in the holster, thank God.