Strike 4,079 Posted February 15, 2018 Probably at least 15 rounds, though AR 15s are easily modified to accommodate up to 100 round magazines, one reason gun nuts and mass murderers like them. So you don't even know if this kid was using a high capacity magazine? Yet here you are asking to ban them. Just like those who misidentify assault rifles but want to ban them...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted February 15, 2018 see.... cant even find middle ground on bump stocks and high capacity magazines the discussion is worthless 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted February 15, 2018 I think, given the evidence we now know exists, it would have been more than appropriate for a court of law to deem him inappropriate to own a gun. Then he wouldn't have been able to LEGALLY purchase the weapon he used to kill 17 people. Of course, that would require law enforcement, who had been made aware of him, to get off their asses and do their job.What exactly did he do to preclude purchasing a gun - what specific law/rule governing gun purchase did he break? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 5,949 Posted February 15, 2018 17 kids die in a single school shooting - not necessary to ban any weapons. No Americans ever killed by a foreign refugee on US soil - ban them! Geek Club Logic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbfalcon 824 Posted February 15, 2018 Then why do the gun control advocates continually mischaracterize the guns they want to ban and define them in overly broad terms that would lead to way more guns being banned than intended? I'm a gun control advocate....and I openly admit I don't know enough at this time to tell you what guns should be banned. Obviously I'm confident that the AR15 is on that list because duh, but I don't know enough to draw the lines and debate at this time. 1. We need to agree to consider whether banning certain weapons from certain people would LIKELY lead to a DECREASE (not elimination of) in these mass murders and/or the number of deaths that result from them on average. 2. If yes, we need to agree that we would be ok banning those particular weapons from those particular people. 3. Then we can study and debate what weapons those are. Until then, we don't really have any parameters for discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted February 15, 2018 So you don't even know if this kid was using a high capacity magazine? Yet here you are asking to ban them. Just like those who misidentify assault rifles but want to ban them...... So you don't even know if this kid was using a high capacity magazine? Yet here you are asking to ban them. Just like those who misidentify assault rifles but want to ban them......He used an AR15, all of which have high capacity magazines. But we dont know all the details of his specific gun, which may have been modified. I gave you a reasonable magazine capacity, 6-10 rounds IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 4,079 Posted February 15, 2018 What exactly did he do to preclude purchasing a gun - what specific law/rule governing gun purchase did he break? You are aware that courts can restrict someone from owning or possessing a firearm if they've made threats, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted February 15, 2018 You are aware that courts can restrict someone from owning or possessing a firearm if they've made threats, right? Is that you answer? What type of threats? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 4,079 Posted February 15, 2018 He used an AR15, all of which have high capacity magazines. But we dont know all the details of his specific gun, which may have been modified. I gave you a reasonable magazine capacity, 6-10 rounds IMO. This is patently untrue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 4,079 Posted February 15, 2018 Is that you answer? What type of threats? You're just going to show yourself being ignorant on a variety of topics in this thread, aren't you? What if he had posted the following: I'm going to be a professional school shooter And was expelled. Dude also posted videos of harming or killing animals, which is a tell tale sign of this type of behavior. Do you think the combination of those factors would be adequate to deem him enough of a threat to prevent him from owning or possessing a gun? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted February 15, 2018 This is patently untrue.While it’s clear you just want to split hairs here, educate us. What is a standard AR15 magazine? How big was the kids magazine? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NorthernVike 2,080 Posted February 15, 2018 Neither side of the gun control issue is going to budge. We've seen it time and time again. Right or wrong. That being said we need to find a way to limit these types of occurrences as it is impossible to prevent all of them. Logic would say we have to start with mental health. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted February 15, 2018 You're just going to show yourself being ignorant on a variety of topics in this thread, aren't you? What if he had posted the following: And was expelled. Dude also posted videos of harming or killing animals, which is a tell tale sign of this type of behavior. Do you think the combination of those factors would be adequate to deem him enough of a threat to prevent him from owning or possessing a gun? Can you link the exact FL law he violated? And while youre at it, the date he purchased the firearm relative to breaking the law? TIA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted February 15, 2018 it doesnt matter, you can get a 30 round mag for under what... 20 bucks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyclone24 1,831 Posted February 15, 2018 “We should have securit at our schools!” (Parkland has a security guard) “If you see something say something” (FBI got a tip that was taken and spoken too) “Background checks!” (Kid passed them all last year) Lemme guess....mental illness...which is just another BS excuse. Mental illness is a global problem, yet gun violence is a uniquely american problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penultimatestraw 473 Posted February 15, 2018 it doesnt matter, you can get a 30 round mag for under what... 20 bucksWhat arguments do gun proponents make to justify such high capacity magazines? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 4,079 Posted February 15, 2018 Can you link the exact FL law he violated? And while youre at it, the date he purchased the firearm relative to breaking the law? TIA No, I'm not going to do that research. Because it's predicated on the theory that the courts can't restrict someone from owning a gun if they're a threat. And they can. And that's both federal and state. If you don't want to believe that it's on you. I'm not wasting my time. If you ask me to prove water is wet I won't do that either. BTW, are you still clinging to the notion that ALL AR-15 mags are high capacity? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bert 1,105 Posted February 15, 2018 Kids is a hack. Gasoline or pipe bombs would have had a much higher kill ratio. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NorthernVike 2,080 Posted February 15, 2018 “We should have securit at our schools!” (Parkland has a security guard) “If you see something say something” (FBI got a tip that was taken and spoken too) “Background checks!” (Kid passed them all last year) Lemme guess....mental illness...which is just another BS excuse. Mental illness is a global problem, yet gun violence is a uniquely american problem. Are you saying a sane person would commit this crime? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mobb_deep 919 Posted February 15, 2018 “We should have securit at our schools!” (Parkland has a security guard) “If you see something say something” (FBI got a tip that was taken and spoken too) “Background checks!” (Kid passed them all last year) Lemme guess....mental illness...which is just another BS excuse. Mental illness is a global problem, yet gun violence is a uniquely american problem. I hate to go all Phurfur... but as a "bleeding heart liberal", I rarely get a chance to argue gun rights with a "conservative"... but "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 4,079 Posted February 15, 2018 What arguments do gun proponents make to justify such high capacity magazines? It's not up to the individual to justify why they are entitled to their rights. It's up to the government to justify why the individual is not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 4,079 Posted February 15, 2018 Are you saying a sane person would commit this crime? I won't speak for him, but I have no problem believing a sane person could commit this type of crime. There are actually, truly evil people in the world that are perfectly sane. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted February 15, 2018 I hate to go all Phurfur... but as a "bleeding heart liberal", I rarely get a chance to argue gun rights with a "conservative"... but "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin Yet we have had no problem doing that doing to fight them brown terrorists Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mobb_deep 919 Posted February 15, 2018 Yet we have had no problem doing that doing to fight them brown terrorists Which I also have a huge problem with. The Patriot Act is 100% unconstitutional, and opened the door for all of these other personal liberties that both sides are trying to strip from us. I don't see Trump doing anything to get rid of the Patriot Act, as he seems to be more afraid of brown people than any president in history, but I'd 100% vote for him in 2020 if he did get rid of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NorthernVike 2,080 Posted February 15, 2018 I won't speak for him, but I have no problem believing a sane person could commit this type of crime. There are actually, truly evil people in the world that are perfectly sane. Disagree. A truly evil person would try and take over the world. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 4,079 Posted February 15, 2018 Disagree. A truly evil person would try and take over the world. Different people have different aspirations in life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 4,079 Posted February 15, 2018 I hate to go all Phurfur... but as a "bleeding heart liberal", I rarely get a chance to argue gun rights with a "conservative"... but "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin I love that quote. Have used it myself. And i'm a huge Ben Franklin fan. Then I found out the actual context in which Ben used it. And it isn't what you think it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NorthernVike 2,080 Posted February 15, 2018 Different people have different aspirations in life. Go big or go home. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parrot 789 Posted February 15, 2018 "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin You know that quote had nothing to do with guns, right? In fact Franklin wasn't even talking about individual liberties, he was talking about Pennsylvania giving up the power to tax the Penn family in favor of a onetime payment from them to help secure the frontier border. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NorthernVike 2,080 Posted February 15, 2018 You know that quote had nothing to do with guns, right? In fact Franklin wasn't even talking about individual liberties, he was talking about Pennsylvania giving up the power to tax the Penn family in favor of a onetime payment from them to help secure the frontier border. It's still a great quote. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,673 Posted February 15, 2018 Oh, speaking of our usual gun control debates... You know the canard the pro gun crowd throws around about How in Switzerland, everyone has to do military service and keeps their rifle at home? I met a Swiss guy the other day in Thailand. I asked him about that. Turns out that while its true they have the rifles, they have no ammo. The ammo is held at local police stations and would be distributed in event of a crises. So its not true they have loaded firearms. Hence the part about a well regulated militia that the NRA conveniently overlooks every time. Very similar circumstances were in place with regard to the militias here back in the day. But let's not let facts ruin a good... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,673 Posted February 15, 2018 You know that quote had nothing to do with guns, right? In fact Franklin wasn't even talking about individual liberties, he was talking about Pennsylvania giving up the power to tax the Penn family in favor of a onetime payment from them to help secure the frontier border. This is why you're my favorite poster. I think I'll miss you most of all Toto. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
parrot 789 Posted February 15, 2018 It's still a great quote. Sure, but it's almost always presented in the context of individuals giving up liberties to the government, which is pretty much the opposite of the actual scenario to which it originally pertained. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,673 Posted February 15, 2018 I won't speak for him, but I have no problem believing a sane person could commit this type of crime. There are actually, truly evil people in the world that are perfectly sane. The dude pre-planned it. That mostly negates any argument of legal Insanity. Just because something is evil and unspeakable doesn't make it insane. Ask the former Charles Manson. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,906 Posted February 15, 2018 I'm all for citizens being able to arm themselves. I just think getting weapons is too easy. It's easier to get weapons in some places than it is to get a drivers license. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mungwater 589 Posted February 15, 2018 Kids is a hack. Gasoline or pipe bombs would have had a much higher kill ratio. If these fvckers ever figure out the directions of point toward enemy on a claymore, then the gets really bad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wiffleball 4,673 Posted February 15, 2018 This stupid about mental illness is incredibly cynical. Because you know the first time that we tried to restrict somebody from getting a gun then the NRA would be all over that saying that the guy is innocent! He's never been convicted of a crime! Who are you to judge what he'll do with that? And the thing is, they know that. They know that. Will jump right from there to you wouldn't deny one of our returning soldiers the right to defend himself would you? Because ex percentage of them have PTSD and that's a mental illness! Why do you hate our troops! Not only can you see it coming. You can write the dialogue that gets us there. That's what makes it so cynical and Insidious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bandrus1 413 Posted February 15, 2018 This stupid ###### about mental illness is incredibly cynical. Because you know the first time that we tried to restrict somebody from getting a gun then the NRA would be all over that ###### saying that the guy is innocent! He's never been convicted of a crime! Who are you to judge what he'll do with that? And the thing is, they know that. They know that. Will jump right from there to you wouldn't deny one of our returning soldiers the right to defend himself would you? Because ex percentage of them have PTSD and that's a mental illness! Why do you hate our troops! Not only can you see it coming. You can write the dialogue that gets us there. That's what makes it so ###### cynical and Insidious. NRA literally send emails to lawmakers after shootings with talking points Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gladiators 1,911 Posted February 15, 2018 NRA literally send emails to lawmakers after shootings with talking points Would be nice if they sent it to the MSM as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NorthernVike 2,080 Posted February 15, 2018 I think I'll miss you most of all Toto. Seek help dude. Seriously. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites