Florida Shooting

[Strike 3,979]

Probably at least 15 rounds, though AR 15s are easily modified to accommodate up to 100 round magazines, one reason gun nuts and mass murderers like them.

 

So you don't even know if this kid was using a high capacity magazine? Yet here you are asking to ban them. Just like those who misidentify assault rifles but want to ban them......

[bandrus1 413]

see.... cant even find middle ground on bump stocks and high capacity magazines

 

 

the discussion is worthless

[penultimatestraw 473]

I think, given the evidence we now know exists, it would have been more than appropriate for a court of law to deem him inappropriate to own a gun. Then he wouldn't have been able to LEGALLY purchase the weapon he used to kill 17 people. Of course, that would require law enforcement, who had been made aware of him, to get off their asses and do their job.

What exactly did he do to preclude purchasing a gun - what specific law/rule governing gun purchase did he break?

[MDC 5,893]

17 kids die in a single school shooting - not necessary to ban any weapons.

 

No Americans ever killed by a foreign refugee on US soil - ban them!

 

Geek Club Logic.

[cbfalcon 824]

 

Then why do the gun control advocates continually mischaracterize the guns they want to ban and define them in overly broad terms that would lead to way more guns being banned than intended?

 

I'm a gun control advocate....and I openly admit I don't know enough at this time to tell you what guns should be banned. Obviously I'm confident that the AR15 is on that list because duh, but I don't know enough to draw the lines and debate at this time.

 

1. We need to agree to consider whether banning certain weapons from certain people would LIKELY lead to a DECREASE (not elimination of) in these mass murders and/or the number of deaths that result from them on average.

2. If yes, we need to agree that we would be ok banning those particular weapons from those particular people.

3. Then we can study and debate what weapons those are.

 

Until then, we don't really have any parameters for discussion.

[penultimatestraw 473]

So you don't even know if this kid was using a high capacity magazine? Yet here you are asking to ban them. Just like those who misidentify assault rifles but want to ban them......

So you don't even know if this kid was using a high capacity magazine? Yet here you are asking to ban them. Just like those who misidentify assault rifles but want to ban them......

He used an AR15, all of which have high capacity magazines. But we dont know all the details of his specific gun, which may have been modified. I gave you a reasonable magazine capacity, 6-10 rounds IMO.

[Strike 3,979]

What exactly did he do to preclude purchasing a gun - what specific law/rule governing gun purchase did he break?

 

You are aware that courts can restrict someone from owning or possessing a firearm if they've made threats, right?

[penultimatestraw 473]

You are aware that courts can restrict someone from owning or possessing a firearm if they've made threats, right?

 

Is that you answer? What type of threats?

[Strike 3,979]

He used an AR15, all of which have high capacity magazines. But we dont know all the details of his specific gun, which may have been modified. I gave you a reasonable magazine capacity, 6-10 rounds IMO.

 

This is patently untrue.

[Strike 3,979]

Is that you answer? What type of threats?

 

You're just going to show yourself being ignorant on a variety of topics in this thread, aren't you? What if he had posted the following:

 

I'm going to be a professional school shooter

 

And was expelled. Dude also posted videos of harming or killing animals, which is a tell tale sign of this type of behavior. Do you think the combination of those factors would be adequate to deem him enough of a threat to prevent him from owning or possessing a gun?

[penultimatestraw 473]

This is patently untrue.

While it’s clear you just want to split hairs here, educate us. What is a standard AR15 magazine? How big was the kids magazine?

[NorthernVike 2,080]

Neither side of the gun control issue is going to budge. We've seen it time and time again. Right or wrong.

 

That being said we need to find a way to limit these types of occurrences as it is impossible to prevent all of them.

 

 

Logic would say we have to start with mental health.

[penultimatestraw 473]

You're just going to show yourself being ignorant on a variety of topics in this thread, aren't you? What if he had posted the following:

 

 

 

And was expelled. Dude also posted videos of harming or killing animals, which is a tell tale sign of this type of behavior. Do you think the combination of those factors would be adequate to deem him enough of a threat to prevent him from owning or possessing a gun?

 

Can you link the exact FL law he violated? And while youre at it, the date he purchased the firearm relative to breaking the law? TIA

[bandrus1 413]

it doesnt matter, you can get a 30 round mag for under what... 20 bucks

[cyclone24 1,814]

“We should have securit at our schools!” (Parkland has a security guard)

 

“If you see something say something” (FBI got a tip that was taken and spoken too)

 

“Background checks!” (Kid passed them all last year)

 

 

Lemme guess....mental illness...which is just another BS excuse. Mental illness is a global problem, yet gun violence is a uniquely american problem.

[penultimatestraw 473]

it doesnt matter, you can get a 30 round mag for under what... 20 bucks

What arguments do gun proponents make to justify such high capacity magazines?

[Strike 3,979]

Can you link the exact FL law he violated? And while youre at it, the date he purchased the firearm relative to breaking the law? TIA

 

No, I'm not going to do that research. Because it's predicated on the theory that the courts can't restrict someone from owning a gun if they're a threat. And they can. And that's both federal and state. If you don't want to believe that it's on you. I'm not wasting my time. If you ask me to prove water is wet I won't do that either.

 

BTW, are you still clinging to the notion that ALL AR-15 mags are high capacity?

[Bert 1,091]

Kids is a hack. Gasoline or pipe bombs would have had a much higher kill ratio.

[NorthernVike 2,080]

“We should have securit at our schools!” (Parkland has a security guard)

 

“If you see something say something” (FBI got a tip that was taken and spoken too)

 

“Background checks!” (Kid passed them all last year)

 

 

Lemme guess....mental illness...which is just another BS excuse. Mental illness is a global problem, yet gun violence is a uniquely american problem.

 

 

Are you saying a sane person would commit this crime?

[mobb_deep 917]

“We should have securit at our schools!” (Parkland has a security guard)

 

“If you see something say something” (FBI got a tip that was taken and spoken too)

 

“Background checks!” (Kid passed them all last year)

 

 

Lemme guess....mental illness...which is just another BS excuse. Mental illness is a global problem, yet gun violence is a uniquely american problem.

 

I hate to go all Phurfur... but as a "bleeding heart liberal", I rarely get a chance to argue gun rights with a "conservative"... but

 

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin

[Strike 3,979]

What arguments do gun proponents make to justify such high capacity magazines?

 

It's not up to the individual to justify why they are entitled to their rights. It's up to the government to justify why the individual is not.

[Strike 3,979]

 

 

Are you saying a sane person would commit this crime?

 

I won't speak for him, but I have no problem believing a sane person could commit this type of crime. There are actually, truly evil people in the world that are perfectly sane.

[bandrus1 413]

 

I hate to go all Phurfur... but as a "bleeding heart liberal", I rarely get a chance to argue gun rights with a "conservative"... but

 

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin

 

 

Yet we have had no problem doing that doing to fight them brown terrorists

[mobb_deep 917]

 

 

Yet we have had no problem doing that doing to fight them brown terrorists

 

Which I also have a huge problem with. The Patriot Act is 100% unconstitutional, and opened the door for all of these other personal liberties that both sides are trying to strip from us. I don't see Trump doing anything to get rid of the Patriot Act, as he seems to be more afraid of brown people than any president in history, but I'd 100% vote for him in 2020 if he did get rid of it.

[NorthernVike 2,080]

 

I won't speak for him, but I have no problem believing a sane person could commit this type of crime. There are actually, truly evil people in the world that are perfectly sane.

Disagree. A truly evil person would try and take over the world.

[Strike 3,979]

Disagree. A truly evil person would try and take over the world.

 

Different people have different aspirations in life.

[Strike 3,979]

 

I hate to go all Phurfur... but as a "bleeding heart liberal", I rarely get a chance to argue gun rights with a "conservative"... but

 

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin

 

I love that quote. Have used it myself. And i'm a huge Ben Franklin fan. Then I found out the actual context in which Ben used it. And it isn't what you think it is.

[NorthernVike 2,080]

 

Different people have different aspirations in life.

Go big or go home.

[parrot 789]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin

 

You know that quote had nothing to do with guns, right? In fact Franklin wasn't even talking about individual liberties, he was talking about Pennsylvania giving up the power to tax the Penn family in favor of a onetime payment from them to help secure the frontier border.

[NorthernVike 2,080]

 

You know that quote had nothing to do with guns, right? In fact Franklin wasn't even talking about individual liberties, he was talking about Pennsylvania giving up the power to tax the Penn family in favor of a onetime payment from them to help secure the frontier border.

It's still a great quote.

[wiffleball 4,645]

Oh, speaking of our usual gun control debates...

 

You know the canard the pro gun crowd throws around about How in Switzerland, everyone has to do military service and keeps their rifle at home?

 

I met a Swiss guy the other day in Thailand. I asked him about that.

 

Turns out that while its true they have the rifles, they have no ammo. The ammo is held at local police stations and would be distributed in event of a crises.

 

So its not true they have loaded firearms.

Hence the part about a well regulated militia that the NRA conveniently overlooks every time. Very similar circumstances were in place with regard to the militias here back in the day.

 

But let's not let facts ruin a good...

[wiffleball 4,645]

 

You know that quote had nothing to do with guns, right? In fact Franklin wasn't even talking about individual liberties, he was talking about Pennsylvania giving up the power to tax the Penn family in favor of a onetime payment from them to help secure the frontier border.

This is why you're my favorite poster.

 

 

I think I'll miss you most of all Toto.

[parrot 789]

It's still a great quote.

 

Sure, but it's almost always presented in the context of individuals giving up liberties to the government, which is pretty much the opposite of the actual scenario to which it originally pertained.

[wiffleball 4,645]

 

I won't speak for him, but I have no problem believing a sane person could commit this type of crime. There are actually, truly evil people in the world that are perfectly sane.

The dude pre-planned it. That mostly negates any argument of legal Insanity. Just because something is evil and unspeakable doesn't make it insane. Ask the former Charles Manson.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,657]

I'm all for citizens being able to arm themselves. I just think getting weapons is too easy. It's easier to get weapons in some places than it is to get a drivers license.

[Mungwater 588]

Kids is a hack. Gasoline or pipe bombs would have had a much higher kill ratio.

If these fvckers ever figure out the directions of point toward enemy on a claymore, then the gets really bad

[wiffleball 4,645]

This stupid about mental illness is incredibly cynical. Because you know the first time that we tried to restrict somebody from getting a gun then the NRA would be all over that saying that the guy is innocent! He's never been convicted of a crime! Who are you to judge what he'll do with that?

 

And the thing is, they know that. They know that. Will jump right from there to you wouldn't deny one of our returning soldiers the right to defend himself would you?

Because ex percentage of them have PTSD and that's a mental illness! Why do you hate our troops!

 

Not only can you see it coming. You can write the dialogue that gets us there.

 

That's what makes it so cynical and Insidious.

[bandrus1 413]

This stupid ###### about mental illness is incredibly cynical. Because you know the first time that we tried to restrict somebody from getting a gun then the NRA would be all over that ###### saying that the guy is innocent! He's never been convicted of a crime! Who are you to judge what he'll do with that?

 

And the thing is, they know that. They know that. Will jump right from there to you wouldn't deny one of our returning soldiers the right to defend himself would you?

Because ex percentage of them have PTSD and that's a mental illness! Why do you hate our troops!

 

Not only can you see it coming. You can write the dialogue that gets us there.

 

That's what makes it so ###### cynical and Insidious.

 

 

NRA literally send emails to lawmakers after shootings with talking points

[Gladiators 1,904]

 

 

NRA literally send emails to lawmakers after shootings with talking points

 

Would be nice if they sent it to the MSM as well.

[NorthernVike 2,080]

 

 

I think I'll miss you most of all Toto.

 

 

Seek help dude. Seriously.