Trump's residence raided by the FBI

[craftsman 1,045]

4 minutes ago, wiffleball said:

No you don't. I've been reading that just mere possession of the documents. Regardless of intense or whatever happens to them is enough to get you in some pretty f****** hot water.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-documents-mar-a-lago-adam-schiff-face-the-nation/?ftag=YHF4eb9d17

 

Hillary and Obama proved that true. 

[nobody 2,044]

17 minutes ago, wiffleball said:

No you don't. I've been reading that just mere possession of the documents. Regardless of intense or whatever happens to them is enough to get you in some pretty f****** hot water.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-documents-mar-a-lago-adam-schiff-face-the-nation/?ftag=YHF4eb9d17

 

Yeah I said the same thing about 4 pages ago, but that's different than violating the espionage act.  I didn't think a sitting president had unilateral authority to declassify documents, but what this amounts to is a security leak, not espionage.  All he has to do is claim ignorance (should be easy for him) on declassification procedures, and he's fine.

Security leaks happen 100s of times a day.  People forget to lock safes.  People accidentally bring docs home.  People accidentally aggregate disparate pieces of unclassified info which taken together is classified.  People say the wrong thing in an unclassified email. Hell, we even accidentally sell arms we shouldn't be selling to foreign countries.  

All he's going to do is claim he thought he declassified the document by magically waving his hand, and they would need to prove that he either shared the info or had intent to share it for him to really be in trouble.  The only punishment is they take your clearance away because you can't be trusted.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but it's pretty obvious this is a product of trump being ignorant than some nefarious plot.  I'd have been more suspicious of Hilary having a private server full of classified info that she wiped before anyone could see if something improper occurred.

 

[craftsman 1,045]

3 minutes ago, nobody said:

Yeah I said the same thing about 4 pages ago, but that's different than violating the espionage act.  I didn't think a sitting president had unilateral authority to declassify documents, but what this amounts to is a security leak, not espionage.  All he has to do is claim ignorance (should be easy for him) on declassification procedures, and he's fine.

Security leaks happen 100s of times a day.  People forget to lock safes.  People accidentally bring docs home.  People accidentally aggregate disparate pieces of unclassified info which taken together is classified.  Hell, we even accidentally sell arms we shouldn't be selling to foreign countries.  

All he's going to do is claim he thought he declassified the document by magically waving his hand, and they would need to prove that he either shared the info or had intent to share it for him to really be in trouble.  The only punishment is they take your clearance away because you can't be trusted.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but it's pretty obvious this is a product of trump being ignorant than some nefarious plot.  I'd have been more suspicious of Hilary having a private server full of classified info that she wiped before anyone could see if something improper occurred.

 

Like I said, if Trump torched all the documents that would be the same as Hillary wiping out her personal server. 

This all is 100% political. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,659]

17 minutes ago, wiffleball said:

No you don't. I've been reading that just mere possession of the documents. Regardless of intense or whatever happens to them is enough to get you in some pretty f****** hot water.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-documents-mar-a-lago-adam-schiff-face-the-nation/?ftag=YHF4eb9d17

 

If mere possession is a crime then why bring in the espionage act?  

[nobody 2,044]

3 minutes ago, craftsman said:

Like I said, if Trump torched all the documents that would be the same as Hillary wiping out her personal server. 

This all is 100% political. 

The Hilary situation was much more suspicious in my opinion.  The proper procedure when classified information is discovered on an outside computer is to disconnect the computer from the network and do nothing so IT guys can come in and try to see where that data went and assess damage.  For instance, if some encryption key was somehow on that drive, they would need to immediately change those keys.

Proper procedure certainly isn't to destroy all of the evidence.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,659]

2 minutes ago, nobody said:

The Hilary situation was much more suspicious in my opinion.  The proper procedure when classified information is discovered on an outside computer is to disconnect the computer from the network and do nothing so IT guys can come in and try to see where that data went and assess damage.  For instance, if some encryption key was somehow on that drive, they would need to immediately change those keys.

Proper procedure certainly isn't to destroy all of the evidence.

You mean like wipe it with a cloth? 

[Mike Honcho 4,039]

21 minutes ago, nobody said:

Yeah I said the same thing about 4 pages ago, but that's different than violating the espionage act.  I didn't think a sitting president had unilateral authority to declassify documents, but what this amounts to is a security leak, not espionage.  All he has to do is claim ignorance (should be easy for him) on declassification procedures, and he's fine.

Security leaks happen 100s of times a day.  People forget to lock safes.  People accidentally bring docs home.  People accidentally aggregate disparate pieces of unclassified info which taken together is classified.  People say the wrong thing in an unclassified email. Hell, we even accidentally sell arms we shouldn't be selling to foreign countries.  

All he's going to do is claim he thought he declassified the document by magically waving his hand, and they would need to prove that he either shared the info or had intent to share it for him to really be in trouble.  The only punishment is they take your clearance away because you can't be trusted.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but it's pretty obvious this is a product of trump being ignorant than some nefarious plot.  I'd have been more suspicious of Hilary having a private server full of classified info that she wiped before anyone could see if something improper occurred.

 

Negligence/ignorance is going to be a tougher defense than that. He's had the documents for 18 months and there have been numerous attempts to retrieve them, contact with NARA, supenas and a signed docs from his lawyer saying all classified materials had be returned. As President he would have been briefed multiple times on the handling of these documents(read that it's one of the first things that happens after he takes office). In addition he signed a law making the laws tougher on for the mishandling of classified documents. It's going to be a real stretch to say it was ignorance.

But if a lawyer suggests that route, I want to be a fly on the wall for the conversation.

Lawyer: Mr. President, we think our best defense is for you to play dumb, you were just ignorant of the law.

President Trump. Nobody will believe that, I'm  a very stable genius...man, woman, camera, TV!!!

[Gepetto 988]

Penalties for Espionage

Penalties for espionage vary depending upon the offense. For gathering or losing defense information under Code Section 793, you could face 10 years of incarceration in a federal prison. If you are convicted of gathering and delivering defense information in order to aid a foreign government, you could be sentenced to life in prison or face a death sentence. Economic espionage can also lead to 15 years imprisonment and a fine up to $5 million.

https://nyccriminallawyer.com/federal-crimes/espionage/

[nobody 2,044]

33 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Negligence/ignorance is going to be a tougher defense than that. He's had the documents for 18 months and there have been numerous attempts to retrieve them, contact with NARA, supenas and a signed docs from his lawyer saying all classified materials had be returned. As President he would have been briefed multiple times on the handling of these documents(read that it's one of the first things that happens after he takes office). In addition he signed a law making the laws tougher on for the mishandling of classified documents. It's going to be a real stretch to say it was ignorance.

But if a lawyer suggests that route, I want to be a fly on the wall for the conversation.

Lawyer: Mr. President, we think our best defense is for you to play dumb, you were just ignorant of the law.

President Trump. Nobody will believe that, I'm  a very stable genius...man, woman, camera, TV!!!

It depends on the information in the docs.  If this was just BS correspondence, it's not even damaging to the US if it gets out.  I know people think Trump was walking around with nuclear weapon designs, but he really wouldn't even have a reason to have that type of information.  If he did, I'd get on the send him to jail bandwagon, but I'm sure it's just letters and shìt

 

[Pimpadeaux 2,271]

57 minutes ago, nobody said:

All he has to do is claim ignorance (should be easy for him) on declassification procedures, and he's fine.

 

 

I have myriad problems with this statement

Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law and not a viable defense. 

A cop isn't going to let you out of a ticket because you claim you didn't know you were 15 mph over the speed limit.

If you killed your wife with a pistol, no way in hell you're going to get off by saying you thought the gun wasn't loaded and that you pointed the weapon at her face and pulled the trigger just to scare her.

Clownzo is of the mindset that he can get away with whatever he wants to. He is a deranged narcissist and sociopath. 

As the planet's No. 1 political figure, he should have known or been advised on what he could take and the legal ramifications of illegally taking and lying about the possession of highly classified documents. 

I think he gets charged, convicted of something and gets jail time.

And he focking deserves it. 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,659]

Espionage! 

[nobody 2,044]

What law?  The espionage act?  You guys can't even comprehend what it is your posting.  He either has to commit espionage, have intent to commit espionage, or accidentally commit espionage through negligence.  It's right in the statute you guys are posting.

[craftsman 1,045]

ESPIONAGE!!!! 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,659]

16 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

I have myriad problems with this statement

Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law and not a viable defense. 

A cop isn't going to let you out of a ticket because you claim you didn't know you were 15 mph over the speed limit.

If you killed your wife with a pistol, no way in hell you're going to get off by saying you thought the gun wasn't loaded and that you pointed the weapon at her face and pulled the trigger just to scare her.

Clownzo is of the mindset that he can get away with whatever he wants to. He is a deranged narcissist and sociopath. 

As the planet's No. 1 political figure, he should have known or been advised on what he could take and the legal ramifications of illegally taking and lying about the possession of highly classified documents. 

I think he gets charged, convicted of something and gets jail time.

And he focking deserves it. 

 

What about his tax case in NY? 

[nobody 2,044]

Once again.  We don't know what was in these documents. 

If he wasn't protecting nuclear secrets and damaged national security through mishandling classified information, he should fry.  If this was letters from world leaders or some , he'll get off.

[Mike Honcho 4,039]

5 minutes ago, nobody said:

Once again.  We don't know what was in these documents. 

If he wasn't protecting nuclear secrets and damaged national security through mishandling classified information, he should fry.  If this was letters from world leaders or some , he'll get off.

Sounds like more than letters.

Bloomberg

Documents seized from former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home bore the US government’s highest top-secret rating, underscoring the sensitive nature of the material he took with him after leaving office.

Court documents unsealed Friday showed that FBI agents seized one box -- marked 2A -- containing “Various classified/TS/SCI documents. That’s shorthand for “Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information,” the sort of information that the government normally requires to be read only in a protected room by people with high-level security clearances.

[Pimpadeaux 2,271]

9 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

What about his tax case in NY? 

A judge said two days ago that it can proceed.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,659]

2 minutes ago, Pimpadeaux said:

A judge said two days ago that it can proceed.

What kind of case is it? Who is the defendant? 

[craftsman 1,045]

1 minute ago, Mike Honcho said:

Sounds like more than letters.

Bloomberg

Documents seized from former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home bore the US government’s highest top-secret rating, underscoring the sensitive nature of the material he took with him after leaving office.

Court documents unsealed Friday showed that FBI agents seized one box -- marked 2A -- containing “Various classified/TS/SCI documents. That’s shorthand for “Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information,” the sort of information that the government normally requires to be read only in a protected room by people with high-level security clearances.

OMG. 20 months later this is a crisis!! Except, they visted him in June and were cool. And then they got the supremely URGENT warrant on Friday and then took the weekend off for a picnic before the urgent raid on Monday.

[nobody 2,044]

58 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Sounds like more than letters.

Bloomberg

Documents seized from former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home bore the US government’s highest top-secret rating, underscoring the sensitive nature of the material he took with him after leaving office.

Court documents unsealed Friday showed that FBI agents seized one box -- marked 2A -- containing “Various classified/TS/SCI documents. That’s shorthand for “Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information,” the sort of information that the government normally requires to be read only in a protected room by people with high-level security clearances.

They might just blanket classify correspondence.  Sometimes one little detail in a whole document can be classified and the whole thing has to be marked.

I don't really care if Trump fries for this or not.  I'm just trying to inject some reality.

[MDC 5,895]

Nothing will happen to Trump. His jaw dropping scumbag hypocrisy is always good for a laugh though.

Lock him up!  

[Sean Mooney 1,184]

13 minutes ago, MDC said:

Nothing will happen to Trump. His jaw dropping scumbag hypocrisy is always good for a laugh though.

Lock him up!  

This is where I'm at too. Nothing will happen but I enjoy the things being thrown at him and laugh at the excuses made by the group of ball washers here hoping Trump will log on and see them defending him. 

[Horseman 1,514]

On 8/12/2022 at 10:12 AM, Horseman said:

All the libs backtracking now.  Geniuses.  

LOL

[SUXBNME 1,340]

It really sux that he made the country better during his term and now we find out that he's just a lying scumbag politician like the rest. 
Damn.



Also, you bleeding hearts should really take a long look in the mirror and decide which side you are really on. America first or America last. 

[nobody 2,044]

1 hour ago, SUXBNME said:

It really sux that he made the country better during his term and now we find out that he's just a lying scumbag politician like the rest. 
Damn.



Also, you bleeding hearts should really take a long look in the mirror and decide which side you are really on. America first or America last. 

Fftoday first.  America second.

[jerryskids 5,208]

I for one am relieved that after seven years of pee tapes, Obama-sponsored espionage for Hillary on his campaign, fake dossiers, two impeachments, and equating Hagar selfies to the biggest risk to our democracy evah, they have legit got him on a doc handling technicality. This is what our country is all about.  We know he is Hitler's worse cousin so it is more than justified. 

[phillybear 364]

8 hours ago, Pimpadeaux said:

I have myriad problems with this statement

Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law and not a viable defense. Hillary Clinton

A cop isn't going to let you out of a ticket because you claim you didn't know you were 15 mph over the speed limit. Paul Pelosi

If you killed your wife with a pistol, no way in hell you're going to get off by saying you thought the gun wasn't loaded and that you pointed the weapon at her face and pulled the trigger just to scare her. Alec Baldwin

Clownzo is of the mindset that he can get away with whatever he wants to. He is a deranged narcissist and sociopath. Hunter Biden

As the planet's No. 1 political figure, he should have known or been advised on what he could take and the legal ramifications of illegally taking and lying about the possession of highly classified documents. James Comey

I think he gets charged, convicted of something and gets jail time. Every Democrat in Washington DC

And he focking deserves it. Harambe

 

[craftsman 1,045]

8 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

This is where I'm at too. Nothing will happen but I enjoy the things being thrown at him and laugh at the excuses made by the group of ball washers here hoping Trump will log on and see them defending him. 

See, this is it. The left, including SeanHauck Sho Nuff, is in it all for their own entertainment. They love the DOJ being used as a political pawn of the left wing of this government. They all hope our government is not functional in the way it was meant to be as long as it's against orange man bad and they let slide Obama, Hillary, and the senile old piece of crap they voted for that is destroying this country right before our eyes. 10% for the big guy.

It's just sick at how people that are as uneducated as the modern day leftist are allowed to even vote. 

[listen2me 23 1,545]

9 hours ago, MDC said:

Nothing will happen to Trump. His jaw dropping scumbag hypocrisy is always good for a laugh though.

Lock him up!  

 

8 hours ago, Sean Mooney said:

This is where I'm at too. Nothing will happen but I enjoy the things being thrown at him and laugh at the excuses made by the group of ball washers here hoping Trump will log on and see them defending him. 

So you guys agree it is all a political show.  

Lol.  We all agree with you.   

We are all on the same page here besides Rusty who is running out of veins to pop.  

[Sean Mooney 1,184]

45 minutes ago, craftsman said:

See, this is it. The left, including SeanHauck Sho Nuff, is in it all for their own entertainment. They love the DOJ being used as a political pawn of the left wing of this government. They all hope our government is not functional in the way it was meant to be as long as it's against orange man bad and they let slide Obama, Hillary, and the senile old piece of crap they voted for that is destroying this country right before our eyes. 10% for the big guy.

It's just sick at how people that are as uneducated as the modern day leftist are allowed to even vote. 

 

36 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

 

So you guys agree it is all a political show.  

Lol.  We all agree with you.   

We are all on the same page here besides Rusty who is running out of veins to pop.  

No. I'm sure he did what he is being accused of. I just don't think anything will happen because guys like Trump (and really all politicians) end up above the law and are not held accountable. So really it doesn't matter in the end. 

But again- it is funny to see all the excuses people make for someone who isn't going to be held accountable anyway. 

Like look at what craftsman posted "The DOJ is a political pawn of the left wing of the government." This is exactly how people get away with this stuff because rubes fall for the reasoning put out there. A majority of the right have started with the whole FBI and DOJ are being weaponized, and craftsman- like the good mindless lemming he is- falls right for it. 

[craftsman 1,045]

7 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

 

No. I'm sure he did what he is being accused of. I just don't think anything will happen because guys like Trump (and really all politicians) end up above the law and are not held accountable. So really it doesn't matter in the end. 

But again- it is funny to see all the excuses people make for someone who isn't going to be held accountable anyway. 

Like look at what craftsman posted "The DOJ is a political pawn of the left wing of the government." This is exactly how people get away with this stuff because rubes fall for the reasoning put out there. A majority of the right have started with the whole FBI and DOJ are being weaponized, and craftsman- like the good mindless lemming he is- falls right for it. 

A 7 year witch hunt has proven you wrong. 

[listen2me 23 1,545]

4 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

 

No. I'm sure he did what he is being accused of. I just don't think anything will happen because guys like Trump (and really all politicians) end up above the law and are not held accountable. So really it doesn't matter in the end. 

But again- it is funny to see all the excuses people make for someone who isn't going to be held accountable anyway. 

Like look at what craftsman posted "The DOJ is a political pawn of the left wing of the government." This is exactly how people get away with this stuff because rubes fall for the reasoning put out there. A majority of the right have started with the whole FBI and DOJ are being weaponized, and craftsman- like the good mindless lemming he is- falls right for it. 

Right.  And if you know this they do as well.  So it is just political theater that they can blast on CNN for months.  We agree.  

As for the last line.  Are you positive that they are not being weaponized?  

You seem so sure of things that you cannot possibly be sure of.  

"Im sure he did what he is being accused of"  .... oh really?  Must have more info than all of us.  

DOJ and FBI aren't being weaponized.  No chance.  I mean if you say do then it must be correct.  

All I know is politicians from different politics have all raised concerns over this.  People that don't even like Trump.  I do know that for a fact.  

If you know more than us then please share.  

[Sean Mooney 1,184]

2 minutes ago, craftsman said:

A 7 year witch hunt has proven you wrong. 

"7 year witch hunt"

Yup...exactly what the Trump and his right wing squad have conditioned you to say.

 

[craftsman 1,045]

1 minute ago, Sean Mooney said:

"7 year witch hunt"

Yup...exactly what the Trump and his right wing squad have conditioned you to say.

 

Yup...Exactly what the Biden liberal squad has conditioned you to reply with. 

[Sean Mooney 1,184]

Just now, listen2me 23 said:

Right.  And if you know this they do as well.  So it is just political theater that they can blast on CNN for months.  We agree.  

As for the last line.  Are you positive that they are not being weaponized?  

You seem so sure of things that you cannot possibly be sure of.  

"Im sure he did what he is being accused of"  .... oh really?  Must have more info than all of us.  

DOJ and FBI aren't being weaponized.  No chance.  I mean if you say do then it must be correct.  

All I know is politicians from different politics have all raised concerns over this.  People that don't even like Trump.  I do know that for a fact.  

If you know more than us then please share.  

So you don't think we should know when people do bad things? I think the American public has a right to know, regardless of what the outcome will be.

"The DOJ and FBI are being weaponized" is part of the stupid cycle. It's an easy thing to say that angers people who easily buy it.

The only thing I know more than you and craftsman (and others) is I don't trust anyone in politics. Right, left- doesn't matter.

[Sean Mooney 1,184]

1 minute ago, craftsman said:

Yup...Exactly what the Biden liberal squad has conditioned you to reply with. 

And there you go with the script. See this is why nothing gets done and nothing happens to people who do wrong.

Congrats- you are part of the problem. 

[craftsman 1,045]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

And there you go with the script. See this is why nothing gets done and nothing happens to people who do wrong.

Congrats- you are part of the problem. 

And there you go with the liberal script. See, this is why the DOJ is allowed to be used as the right arm of the liberal democrat party. Cause you all just soak it in and keep voting for them. 

Congrats on being the problem. 

[Sean Mooney 1,184]

Just now, craftsman said:

And there you go with the liberal script. See, this is why the DOJ is allowed to be used as the right arm of the liberal democrat party. Cause you all just soak it in and keep voting for them. 

Congrats on being the problem. 

Of course this ignores my voting record over the years shows me voting for Republican candidates by a 2-1 margin. 

But keep making excuses for Trump

[listen2me 23 1,545]

Just now, Sean Mooney said:

So you don't think we should know when people do bad things? I think the American public has a right to know, regardless of what the outcome will be.

"The DOJ and FBI are being weaponized" is part of the stupid cycle. It's an easy thing to say that angers people who easily buy it.

The only thing I know more than you and craftsman (and others) is I don't trust anyone in politics. Right, left- doesn't matter.

I don't trust anyone in politics.   But when people from all different sides share a concern over something it makes me 2nd guess it.  It is more tangible than you just saying you are sure of something that you have just as much info on as the rest of us.

[craftsman 1,045]

2 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Of course this ignores my voting record over the years shows me voting for Republican candidates by a 2-1 margin. 

But keep making excuses for Trump